Emotional Affair

[PinkSunset]

So...IF he plans to talk to her about divorcing her - why wouldn't he still stay in that hotel?

 

It doesn't make sense! When I planned to divorce my exH I changed the locks and made sure he could be with me.

 

Going back home sends a clear message that he's returning to her.

 

Are you sure you heard him correctly? His actions aren't matching his words.

 

He said he was going home to talk to her. I am assuming that means he will be going back to the hotel when he is done.

 

If not, I will have that discussion with him. If he does return home I would expect it to be temporary until he finds a place. Temporary as in a week... MAX.

[S2B]

So...IF he plans to talk to her about divorcing her - why wouldn't he still stay in that hotel?

 

It doesn't make sense! When I planned to divorce my exH I changed the locks and made sure he could be with me.

 

Going back home sends a clear message that he's returning to her.

 

Are you sure you heard him correctly? His actions aren't matching his words.

 

Oops! Wanted to be sure he could NOT stay with me!

[NTV]

He has always said if she ever finds out that both of our lives would be made hell and that he would probably never see his son. I think after a while though he is realizing that her threats are just that, threats... She really has no pull when it comes to their son, except for the money she can put into a nasty lawyer to keep him in court and drain his money. He also thinks she will turn their son against him. I am sure it would be even more so if she knew about us.

 

He wants it to go as smoothly as she will allow for the sake of his son. I think exposing his affair won't help that.

 

 

 

You don't think that his cheating is what's going to turn his son against him?

 

 

When a person risks the stability of their kid's lives for another relationship, there are consequences. What their kids think about them is one of those consequences. I'm pretty sure that a woman intent enough on trying to keep her family together that she'd hire a PI, is going to make sure NOT to turn the kid against the father because of her love of the kid.

 

 

 

 

What do you care about the kid or the wife anyway?

[S2B]

He said he was going home to talk to her. I am assuming that means he will be going back to the hotel when he is done.

 

If not, I will have that discussion with him. If he does return home I would expect it to be temporary until he finds a place. Temporary as in a week... MAX.

 

Pink - you need to stop assuming and start asking more specific questions and expect real answers from him about his plan and exactly what action he is taking toward his goal.

 

At this point it's difficult to determine if his goal is to go back to the wife or separate physically as well as divorcing her.

 

His words and actions aren't aligning = it looks suspicious.

 

IF he planned to divorce you'd be thinking he would be offering specifics on how he plans to carry out that goal.

 

I doubt he plans to divorce since he's being wishy washy on many accounts.

[PinkSunset]

You don't think that his cheating is what's going to turn his son against him?

 

 

When a person risks the stability of their kid's lives for another relationship, there are consequences. What their kids think about them is one of those consequences. I'm pretty sure that a woman intent enough on trying to keep her family together that she'd hire a PI, is going to make sure NOT to turn the kid against the father because of her love of the kid.

 

 

 

 

What do you care about the kid or the wife anyway?

 

Of course I care about his son. I have met him a few times, I also know how much his dad loves him.

 

If she has so much love for her kid then why has she allowed her marriage to become so strained? Why do her and Jamie sleep in separate rooms? Why does she wait until her husband tells her he wants a divorce before she says she wants to work on it?

She should want her son in a happy home. She should want her son to see his mother and father happy, regardless of if they are together or not.

 

And no, I am not just blaming her for the demise of their marriage. I realize it takes two.

[PinkSunset]

Pink - you need to stop assuming and start asking more specific questions and expect real answers from him about his plan and exactly what action he is taking toward his goal.

 

At this point it's difficult to determine if his goal is to go back to the wife or separate physically as well as divorcing her.

 

His words and actions aren't aligning = it looks suspicious.

 

IF he planned to divorce you'd be thinking he would be offering specifics on how he plans to carry out that goal.

 

I doubt he plans to divorce since he's being wishy washy on many accounts.

 

I already told him I want actions not words. He has made more progress in the last week then he has in the last year.

 

If this is all for show I will walk away. I love him but I am too old to sit around and wait for him forever.

 

He wants to keep our contact minimal until he figures out if there is a PI following him.

Can they track his messages and emails?

[sophinla]

I LOL because I find it hard to believe. I was not laughing at her or the situation she may feel she is in. If she actually hired a PI then I commend her because she obviously has a good intuition of what might be going on.

 

She can afford a PI easily. I doubt she will get alimony, that doesn't fly much here in Canada unless you're a millionaire and your wife is a SAHM.

He is more than willing to pay for his child and wants joint custody. I don't see how him having an affair is going to effect his custody arrangements.

 

I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Do you mean you laughed because she is too dumb or too good to find out the truth for herself?

 

So you and her husband went behind her back and is having an EA or PA whatever, and you guys will not tell her, so she is hiring a P.I. to find out the truth.

 

What is there to laugh about a wife and a mother, trying to find out the truth regarding her marriage and her family unit, that she has been denied from?

 

You need to hear yourself, so blinded by lies and self served passion, that you cannot see the pain of another woman. He said he is more than willing to pay for his child? Is that written in a legal document somewhere that she can rely on? What if he changes his mind later? Actually, didn't he also promised to cherish her and stay faithful to her, what happen to that promise?

[dubliner]

I already told him I want actions not words. He has made more progress in the last week then he has in the last year.

 

If this is all for show I will walk away. I love him but I am too old to sit around and wait for him forever.

 

He wants to keep our contact minimal until he figures out if there is a PI following him.

Can they track his messages and emails?

 

Pink, you yourself have written that the threats to him about not seeing his son etc are 'just that' without any practical way of being carried out.

The. You have said the the W is going to know that he was having an A as soon as your R is made public knowledge.

 

So, my question is, why so concerned about the PI? Why so much concern about the truth being known? A divorce is rarely a mutual agreement carried out without unpleasantness, she has already stated she will oppose it.

 

Who is he really protecting? What are his motives?

I'm sorry but I feel this denial of his wrongdoing and denial of your R only serves to protect HIM, even..to allow the way back to his M should he wish to... Exposing the A would possibly force the divorce and very effectively burn that bridge back to her.. But isn't that what he claims to want?

[S2B]

I already told him I want actions not words. He has made more progress in the last week then he has in the last year.

 

If this is all for show I will walk away. I love him but I am too old to sit around and wait for him forever.

 

He wants to keep our contact minimal until he figures out if there is a PI following him.

Can they track his messages and emails?

 

Then if he wants minimal contact stop contacting him.

 

Nothing. Yes, he can be tracked on any level. Especially when he's staying at a hotel and has you show up there.

 

There's not one reason why you need to alert him to every part of your day - like hurting your knee.

 

These are things you need to deal with on your own. He can't fix that for you - anymore than you fixing his marriage or his divorce.

 

Start living - get busy. Don't contact him until he says he's divorced. He's already told you he doesn't want much contact.

 

IF he plans to do this he can accomplish it without you holding his hand.

 

See if he is good for his word.

[ChickiePops]

Of course I care about his son. I have met him a few times, I also know how much his dad loves him.

 

If she has so much love for her kid then why has she allowed her marriage to become so strained? Why do her and Jamie sleep in separate rooms? Why does she wait until her husband tells her he wants a divorce before she says she wants to work on it?

She should want her son in a happy home. She should want her son to see his mother and father happy, regardless of if they are together or not.

 

And no, I am not just blaming her for the demise of their marriage. I realize it takes two.

 

Why did he wait until he found a soft landing place (you) to ask her for a divorce?

 

Why didn't HE suggest working on the marriage? And also..how do you know that she didn't? You weren't there..you only know his side of things.

 

Why is he angry at her for grieving over their lost child?

 

It honestly sounds like he blames her for that to be honest. I would put money on that horrific event leading to the demise of their marriage.

 

You have no right to hate her Pink. And frankly, if I were here, I would fight for custody too. She's not the cheater and the liar.

[Josmatjes]

Of course I care about his son. I have met him a few times, I also know how much his dad loves him.

 

If she has so much love for her kid then why has she allowed her marriage to become so strained? Why do her and Jamie sleep in separate rooms? Why does she wait until her husband tells her he wants a divorce before she says she wants to work on it?

She should want her son in a happy home. She should want her son to see his mother and father happy, regardless of if they are together or not.

 

And no, I am not just blaming her for the demise of their marriage. I realize it takes two.

 

I'm just curious if you have children. I apologize I only skimmed this thread but the title caught my attention. Sometimes when you have the distraction of children and the day to dayness of things your marraige falls to the side. It happens in many marriages but many people find each other again. She may not have known that it was that far gone. And why do you say that she allowed it to become strained? Did he not have a part in this? Also as far as her asking to work on it after he asks for a divorce, she may be in denial.

[sophinla]

He is more than willing to pay for his child and wants joint custody. I don't see how him having an affair is going to effect his custody arrangements.

 

Custody arrangements are based first and foremost on a child's interest and child-parent relationship. Having an affair will definitely affect MM's relationship with the child, and in some ways make him a less fit parent.

 

So yes it will most certainly affect custody arrangements and hence child support payments, unless he hide the whole shebang from the wife and the kid.

 

Oh wait, he is doing just that isn't he?

[ShatteredLady]

The death of a child is psychologically the most damaging thing a marriage can endure. (Some say the only thing worse than adultery)

 

The OP can't do what she's doing AND have empathy for the BS. The brain doesn't really work that way. Poor Jamie needs her to rescue him from the big bad wife. & I don't think that there's really anything that anyone can say to get her to step out. She's already lost too much for this relationship.

[NTV]

Well there is a business fallacy called 'sunk costs' she could Google. .. But she won't.

[PinkSunset]

I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Do you mean you laughed because she is too dumb or too good to find out the truth for herself?

 

So you and her husband went behind her back and is having an EA or PA whatever, and you guys will not tell her, so she is hiring a P.I. to find out the truth.

 

What is there to laugh about a wife and a mother, trying to find out the truth regarding her marriage and her family unit, that she has been denied from?

 

You need to hear yourself, so blinded by lies and self served passion, that you cannot see the pain of another woman. He said he is more than willing to pay for his child? Is that written in a legal document somewhere that she can rely on? What if he changes his mind later? Actually, didn't he also promised to cherish her and stay faithful to her, what happen to that promise?

 

Maybe she does deserve the truth, but I won't be the one telling her. Jamie needs to do that and decide for himself whether he wants to or not. Right now, that answer is a no.

 

Again, the laugh was not directed toward her.

 

Pink, you yourself have written that the threats to him about not seeing his son etc are 'just that' without any practical way of being carried out.

The. You have said the the W is going to know that he was having an A as soon as your R is made public knowledge.

 

So, my question is, why so concerned about the PI? Why so much concern about the truth being known? A divorce is rarely a mutual agreement carried out without unpleasantness, she has already stated she will oppose it.

 

Who is he really protecting? What are his motives?

I'm sorry but I feel this denial of his wrongdoing and denial of your R only serves to protect HIM, even..to allow the way back to his M should he wish to... Exposing the A would possibly force the divorce and very effectively burn that bridge back to her.. But isn't that what he claims to want?

 

Honestly I'm not overly concerned about the PI.

 

I meant that his wife will know we are together eventually but for all she knows we started dating after the divorce/separation, if it goes smoothly.

 

This is only the beginning. I can't say whether or not he will leave for good or go back. I can't say what his motives are. I only know what he tells me.

[PinkSunset]

Then if he wants minimal contact stop contacting him.

 

Nothing. Yes, he can be tracked on any level. Especially when he's staying at a hotel and has you show up there.

 

There's not one reason why you need to alert him to every part of your day - like hurting your knee.

 

These are things you need to deal with on your own. He can't fix that for you - anymore than you fixing his marriage or his divorce.

 

Start living - get busy. Don't contact him until he says he's divorced. He's already told you he doesn't want much contact.

 

IF he plans to do this he can accomplish it without you holding his hand.

 

See if he is good for his word.

 

I am doing my best to not contact him. I only updated on my knee because he knew I had hurt myself.

 

I am worried that this injury will stop me from staying busy. Exercise is my go to for getting my mind off of things.

 

Why did he wait until he found a soft landing place (you) to ask her for a divorce?

 

Why didn't HE suggest working on the marriage? And also..how do you know that she didn't? You weren't there..you only know his side of things.

 

Why is he angry at her for grieving over their lost child?

 

It honestly sounds like he blames her for that to be honest. I would put money on that horrific event leading to the demise of their marriage.

 

You have no right to hate her Pink. And frankly, if I were here, I would fight for custody too. She's not the cheater and the liar.

 

They went to MC and she had IC on her own regarding the loss of her pregnancy. He told me this went on for two years. She then refused to have sex with him because it reminded her of wanting to get pregnant and she couldn't. None of it was resolved in MC and she stopped IC.

This is what he told me way back when. I know this is HIS take on it, and you can say he is bullcrapping all you want but you can't say it's false either.

 

 

I do not hate her. She had always been nice to me in person. I don't like the way she treated Jamie in front of others. I imagine she does the same in front of her family as well.

 

And okay he is lying to her and cheating on her... To spare her feelings and to protect himself, his son, and me.

 

 

The death of a child is psychologically the most damaging thing a marriage can endure. (Some say the only thing worse than adultery)

 

The OP can't do what she's doing AND have empathy for the BS. The brain doesn't really work that way. Poor Jamie needs her to rescue him from the big bad wife. & I don't think that there's really anything that anyone can say to get her to step out. She's already lost too much for this relationship.

 

I realize losing a baby is a horrible and tragic thing. A lot of divorces happen after things like this because neither parent can cope. This is a miscarriage though. Not a full term baby who had a name and a face and a breathing life.

I know that sounds harsh and unsympathetic. Please feel free to blast me on it but women go through this stuff all the time and don't persecute their husbands over it. I have a friend who has had 5 miscarriages and I don't see this happening.

 

Maybe I'm just a horrible person for thinking so.

[PinkSunset]

Well there is a business fallacy called 'sunk costs' she could Google. .. But she won't.

 

I'm already familiar with that term, thank you.

 

No one can know if it's all going to be worth it or not, at this point.

 

If it isn't that's something I will have to deal with, isn't it?

[S2B]

You're right Pink - you only know what he tells you.

 

That's the concern.

 

So when you hurt yourself or anything happens in the future - can you resist reaching out to tell him?

 

Contacting to tell him all about what happens in your life is likely to keep you really connected to him...

 

Do you have friends you can lean on instead? Friends to keep you busy and distracted while he attempts to make changes in his life...?

[Sunnycalb808]

Sounds like he is pulling back

 

This is the 2nd time he has mentioned needing/wanting to lessen contact. I realize you as well are saying that but it seems this is a newer development for him. While i agree contact should stop, I think his reasons are self-serving and certainly not bc he wants to protect you or "do right" by you.

 

Most likely the "trying to give it time to smooth things over so she will agree" is really just a cover for: wanting more time to decide what he wants and keeping you both strung along in the meantime.

 

It actually seems you are pushing for more contact and he isnt now. He is using the excuse of not wanting you caught in the crossfire bc he cares about you, but really the reason he wants diminished contact is so she wont learn of the affair. And he doesnt want her to know about the affair bc he believes it will be a dealbreaker and he is not certain for sure he wants to leave the marriage.

 

Im curious why you would go to his hotel when you seem to well understand the awful position being OW entails.

 

Alsot, about the PI. You seem to not realize his wife may have already figured out its you. From cell records emails etc. So IF there was a PI (which there may be OR it could just be a lie by MM to keep you away and bide more time) he could actually have been specifically looking for confirmation of you at the hotel by site or car.

[ChickiePops]

I am doing my best to not contact him. I only updated on my knee because he knew I had hurt myself.

 

I am worried that this injury will stop me from staying busy. Exercise is my go to for getting my mind off of things.

 

 

 

They went to MC and she had IC on her own regarding the loss of her pregnancy. He told me this went on for two years. She then refused to have sex with him because it reminded her of wanting to get pregnant and she couldn't. None of it was resolved in MC and she stopped IC.

This is what he told me way back when. I know this is HIS take on it, and you can say he is bullcrapping all you want but you can't say it's false either.

 

 

I do not hate her. She had always been nice to me in person. I don't like the way she treated Jamie in front of others. I imagine she does the same in front of her family as well.

 

And okay he is lying to her and cheating on her... To spare her feelings and to protect himself, his son, and me.

 

 

 

 

I realize losing a baby is a horrible and tragic thing. A lot of divorces happen after things like this because neither parent can cope. This is a miscarriage though. Not a full term baby who had a name and a face and a breathing life.

I know that sounds harsh and unsympathetic. Please feel free to blast me on it but women go through this stuff all the time and don't persecute their husbands over it. I have a friend who has had 5 miscarriages and I don't see this happening.

 

Maybe I'm just a horrible person for thinking so.

 

If he wanted to spare her feelings he would have waited until he was divorced to start up with you. Don't fool yourself into thinking he's looking to spare HER. He's looking out for himself, and only himself. HE doesn't want to deal with her feelings and you are new and fresh and you don't have baggage with him.

 

Oh wait..yeah you do. Your relationship started with both of you cheating. you two will never fully be able to trust each other...

 

I won't call you a horrible person for not understanding the devastating effects a miscarriage can have, along with the truly horrible knowledge that you can never have more children..but how dare you minimize her pain. Just because lots of people go through something doesn't mean everyone has the coping skills to deal with it the same way, nor does it mean it doesn't hurt. Having children is a primal instinct in most human beings. Having that wrenched away from you makes you feel not only lost and lonely, but like less of a woman. And having a miscarriage, particularly a violent and unnecessary one like she did, is heart-wrenching.

 

This is undoubtedly what ruined their marriage, and her as a person. She lost a child, she lost the ability to have more children, and now she's losing the man who promised to be with her forever in sickness and in health. 5 years may seem like a long time to you but it's not. Not at all. The baby she lost would be in kindergarten now and I bet she thinks about that every day.

 

I hope you never understand how she feels. I hope I don't either. But I do hope you'll stop speaking so cruelly about her. And before you argue..yes, you are speaking cruelly about her. Have some compassion. If and when you have children, maybe you'll start to get it.

[GollumsNightmare]

Anyone else wonder if "poor Jamie" was meeting an OOW at the hotel this weekend?

 

Also,

I know that sounds harsh and unsympathetic.

Why, yes. Yes it does. I am a BS AND lost a baby in the second trimester. You have no earthly idea the pain this woman has been through and is about to go through when the A is uncovered. I cannot begin to describe it to you. I cannot understand how in the world you can be so #%^*+* flippant about the loss of her child AND how you can continue in an affair that you KNOW will cause her even more pain.

 

ETA: I was the OW in my early 20s. I have lived with the guilt of that association for 30 years. I had no idea the pain I could have caused the BS. I was young and immature. YOU have a board full of people telling you about the pain you would cause her, but you don't seem to care.

Edited May 17, 2016 by GollumsNightmare
Full disclosure

[Sunnycalb808]

After reading the whole thread the pattern I see is: you get some distance from Jamie, start to speak kinder and more empathatically for his wife, as well as seem stronger and more deternined to do the right thing.

 

Then you talk or see Jamie and your tone towards his wife darkens quite a bit. You slip back across that line in the sand of acceptable human behavior.

 

I still dont get the animosity and anger at the wife. Its so interesting you refer to her as a liar...yet Jamie is the one you know for a fact lies regularly.

 

I just hope your perspective goes back to the track it appeared to be on at one point.

[Sunnycalb808]

After reading the whole thread the pattern I see is: you get some distance from Jamie, start to speak kinder and more empathatically for his wife, as well as seem stronger and more deternined to do the right thing.

 

Then you talk or see Jamie and your tone towards his wife darkens quite a bit, to a place that I cant imagine it feels good to go. You slip back across that line in the sand of acceptable human behavior.

 

I still dont get the animosity and anger at the wife. Its so interesting you refer to her as a liar...yet Jamie is the one you know for a fact lies regularly.

 

I just hope your perspective goes back to the track it appeared to be on at one point.

[sophinla]

And okay he is lying to her and cheating on her... To spare her feelings and to protect himself, his son, and me.

 

This stuff needs some serious black magic to pull off

[ladydesigner]

PinkSunset I think you need to take all your focus off the BS for now and just focus on yourself.

 

The loss of a miscarriage or baby carry the same grief: loss of a life that meant the world to everyone involved in the family.