S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 From what he's said, she has always made verbally abusive comments but it's only gotten worse over the last 2 or 3 years. I think this is when he has started to become truly unhappy. She wouldn't allow him to take their son from the house last night. They started to argue but he said he just said goodbye to his son as he didn't want to fight in front of him. Nothing was said about me or about her seeing me over the weekend. Why is she making this so hard for him? Why is she not letting him be a father to his son? She has no idea how many mothers out there would love to have their children father take an active part. I don't get it. The only one it is hurting is the boy. It makes me sad. Well - it's because he hasn't gotten visitation ordered by the court. Why hasn't he had that ordered? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Well - it's because he hasn't gotten visitation ordered by the court. Why hasn't he had that ordered? He had the custody and access papers sent to her already and she hasn't responded yet. He was asking for joint custody 50/50. She obviously doesn't agree to that and after last night he is fed up. Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Of course she is going to play hardball. No wife is just going to sit idly by while her husband deserts the marriage and tries to take their son with him. She wants to work on the marriage. He is refusing. This is very rare for a man to do unless 1. The wife is abusive or has mental illmess or substance abuse issues which she doesmt; or 2) he is leaving for OW Men rarely leave a marriage without one of these criteria beimg present. Im sure she knows this, her attorneys know this, and it is only a matter of time the A is uncovered (assuming it hasnt already been) Do you plan to drop back into NC/LC? Have you seen the filed papers? Have you seen the signed lease? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I am not sure about the emergency part but he told me this morning she will only allow him to see his son at the house and will not let him take him to his house or anywhere. There is no custody agreement in place right now so really it's who files first...He is planning on filing for full custody today with his lawyer. If it's granted then he takes his son full time and she will have to file a petition or come to an agreement to get it changed. This is going to get really, really messy. He said if she wants to play hard ball she is going to get it. Ok then - he expected to take the child without doing the proper paperwork. Now she's letting him know she isn't going along with his plan - so he needs to do it through the courts. He's learning that he's not getting anything from her unless he does it legally. And this is his battle to fight - he hasn't done proper order. When he gets things filed she will have no room to argue with him. He can call the authorities if she doesn't allow him the visitation outlined by the courts. He should keep his paperwork in his car in case he needs it for proof. Link to post Share on other sites
Dancewithme Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Dear OP, When catching up on your thread, this narrative popped into my head: "Jamie, your personal life sounds extremely messy at the moment. You are trying to leave your wife, your wife is resistant, and there is a little boy in the middle. You and your wife have to settle your issues in a way that is in the best interests of your son. This is family business, and I should have no influence in any of this; I am not your family. Therefore, I need to bow out of your life right now. I do not want to hear anymore of your issues with custody, and with your wife, or your life. I am officially deleting all of my means of contact for you. I am blocking you from contacting me. If you do manage to contact me, I will delete, hang up,or ignore. If we pass on the street, I will look in the other direction. I am young, I have my whole life ahead of me, and it does not serve me to be embroiled in your drama. When you are divorced, living on your own, and your custody issues are involved, look me up. I am sorry, I felt we had something special, but I now realize this is how it needs to be. Take care, Pink Sunset." Just a thought. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Of course she is going to play hardball. No wife is just going to sit idly by while her husband deserts the marriage and tries to take their son with him. She wants to work on the marriage. He is refusing. This is very rare for a man to do unless 1. The wife is abusive or has mental illmess or substance abuse issues which she doesmt; or 2) he is leaving for OW Men rarely leave a marriage without one of these criteria beimg present. Im sure she knows this, her attorneys know this, and it is only a matter of time the A is uncovered (assuming it hasnt already been) Do you plan to drop back into NC/LC? Have you seen the filed papers? Have you seen the signed lease? She is verbally and emotionally abusive so there's that. If they know about me then they should get on with it already. If they knew about me I think she would have brought that up. I haven't seen him since that day in the hotel. He hadn't signed his lease or anything yet at that point. I didn't ask to see any papers. I don't think he is lying to me about any of it because he knows if I found out he's lied I would be done with him. He already thinks I am on the verge of leaving him and he is afraid to lose me. Ok then - he expected to take the child without doing the proper paperwork. Now she's letting him know she isn't going along with his plan - so he needs to do it through the courts. He's learning that he's not getting anything from her unless he does it legally. And this is his battle to fight - he hasn't done proper order. When he gets things filed she will have no room to argue with him. He can call the authorities if she doesn't allow him the visitation outlined by the courts. He should keep his paperwork in his car in case he needs it for proof. I told him this morning that he needs to deal with it himself, that I can't offer him any advice etc and he said he just needs me to listen. I think I opened that door again when I called him after the parking lot incident.. Unless he was just letting me know if she said anything about it, which he said he would let me know. He didn't call me or message me at all last night either like I thought he would. I guess we are going back into LC. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Dear OP, When catching up on your thread, this narrative popped into my head: "Jamie, your personal life sounds extremely messy at the moment. You are trying to leave your wife, your wife is resistant, and there is a little boy in the middle. You and your wife have to settle your issues in a way that is in the best interests of your son. This is family business, and I should have no influence in any of this; I am not your family. Therefore, I need to bow out of your life right now. I do not want to hear anymore of your issues with custody, and with your wife, or your life. I am officially deleting all of my means of contact for you. I am blocking you from contacting me. If you do manage to contact me, I will delete, hang up,or ignore. If we pass on the street, I will look in the other direction. I am young, I have my whole life ahead of me, and it does not serve me to be embroiled in your drama. When you are divorced, living on your own, and your custody issues are involved, look me up. I am sorry, I felt we had something special, but I now realize this is how it needs to be. Take care, Pink Sunset." Just a thought. I've written a couple emails like this already but I can never send it. I turn into a crying mess just writing it. I guess I am just not there yet... Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The way you say "I guess" sounds like you are sad to be in LC. Please realize you do not know if she is verbally or emotionally abusive. Talking disrespecfully or name calling is not abuse per se. She may be bitchy and mean but you cannot say from 2 or 3 inatances of her talking down to him in public that she is "abusive" You can say however that he without question IS abusive in that he is lying and cheating to her. THAT is the known abuse element in this marriage. I have no doubt she probably mistreated him as he did her. This is not necessarily "abuse" and does not cause a person to walk away from a family with a child generally, without some other impetus ie an OW Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 He didn't call me or message me at all last night either like I thought he would. He could very well have been at marital home longer than he led you to believe 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 He could very well have been at marital home longer than he led you to believe I thought the same thing. He said that's what happened - wouldn't you think he would be angry and call Pink as usual in the evening? He may have spent the night back at home with his wife? Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) She is verbally and emotionally abusive so there's that. If they know about me then they should get on with it already. If they knew about me I think she would have brought that up. I haven't seen him since that day in the hotel. He hadn't signed his lease or anything yet at that point. I didn't ask to see any papers. I don't think he is lying to me about any of it because he knows if I found out he's lied I would be done with him. He already thinks I am on the verge of leaving him and he is afraid to lose me. I told him this morning that he needs to deal with it himself, that I can't offer him any advice etc and he said he just needs me to listen. I think I opened that door again when I called him after the parking lot incident.. Unless he was just letting me know if she said anything about it, which he said he would let me know. He didn't call me or message me at all last night either like I thought he would. I guess we are going back into LC. Why should you accept being his emotional dumping ground? That's just awful!!! He really expects you to sit there listening to all his crappy situations about HIS WIFE? Can you see how utterly awful it is that he even expects that from you? Why does he get to USE YOU emotionally while he goes through a roller coaster ride that's terrible? Edited May 31, 2016 by S2B Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Most OSs complain that the MM is treating them like a free prostitute or escort, here, this man is treating you like a free therapist... Link to post Share on other sites
lemondrop21 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Pink, I like your draft email but to be honest, I think it's too extreme and you'll end up going back on it. Most of it is good, but I think that blocking all means of communication will backfire at this stage - you'll get too anxious and unblock, thus undermining yourself. Why don't you simply ask him for space right now, and to please contact you with periodic updates (every 2 weeks?) if things are still moving forward? Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Most OSs complain that the MM is treating them like a free prostitute or escort, here, this man is treating you like a free therapist... Of which people willing to change or explore changing pay around $200 an hour. Has he considered consulting a professional to help him process his changes he's making? Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Good point. I mean he claims he is coming out of an abusive marriage. If thats true (and I dont think it really is) surely he needs counseling as an abuse victim. And surely being an abuse victim he is not going to be "relationship ready", right? And surely his little boy will need counseling having witnessed this abusive marriage? Edited May 31, 2016 by MaggieNilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 The way you say "I guess" sounds like you are sad to be in LC. Please realize you do not know if she is verbally or emotionally abusive. Talking disrespecfully or name calling is not abuse per se. She may be bitchy and mean but you cannot say from 2 or 3 inatances of her talking down to him in public that she is "abusive" You can say however that he without question IS abusive in that he is lying and cheating to her. THAT is the known abuse element in this marriage. I have no doubt she probably mistreated him as he did her. This is not necessarily "abuse" and does not cause a person to walk away from a family with a child generally, without some other impetus ie an OW Of course I am upset to be LC. I have talked to this man almost everyday all day for almost a year. I have spent hours getting to know him and vice versa. We know each others deepest thoughts and feelings. He would spend any free time he had with me and I miss all of it. I miss being able to lay in his arms and feel safe. I miss his voice and his laugh. I can't even remember the last time I heard him laugh or saw him smile and it kills me beyond belief. I have everyone on LS and my therapist telling me to go NC or LC but yet neither him or I want to. I am doing it because I know in the long run this will be better for both of us. He gets that too... So when I say "I guess", you are absolutely right that I am sad about it. He could very well have been at marital home longer than he led you to believe I thought the same thing. He said that's what happened - wouldn't you think he would be angry and call Pink as usual in the evening? He may have spent the night back at home with his wife? It's possible but I doubt it. I told him to let me know in the morning how it went, and he did. He listens to me pretty well right now because I don't think he wants to screw up. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Why should you accept being his emotional dumping ground? That's just awful!!! He really expects you to sit there listening to all his crappy situations about HIS WIFE? Can you see how utterly awful it is that he even expects that from you? Why does he get to USE YOU emotionally while he goes through a roller coaster ride that's terrible? Most OSs complain that the MM is treating them like a free prostitute or escort, here, this man is treating you like a free therapist... I suppose that is exactly what I have been this whole time then, his emotional dumping ground. I was there for him when this whole thing started, being his go to person to vent to. It changed into so much more than that though and it stopped being about his crappy marriage. Right now it seems to be going back to that because of everything that's going on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Pink, I like your draft email but to be honest, I think it's too extreme and you'll end up going back on it. Most of it is good, but I think that blocking all means of communication will backfire at this stage - you'll get too anxious and unblock, thus undermining yourself. Why don't you simply ask him for space right now, and to please contact you with periodic updates (every 2 weeks?) if things are still moving forward? I didn't write that and no way would I ever. It is way too harsh and I don't feel that way. The periodic updates are originally what I asked for. We were adapting to it before I ran into his wife. Now it's just getting back to that.... Of which people willing to change or explore changing pay around $200 an hour. Has he considered consulting a professional to help him process his changes he's making? Good point. I mean he claims he is coming out of an abusive marriage. If thats true (and I dont think it really is) surely he needs counseling as an abuse victim. And surely being an abuse victim he is not going to be "relationship ready", right? And surely his little boy will need counseling having witnessed this abusive marriage? I suggested it but he said he has too much going on right now to even think about that. He knows I am in counselling and thinks it's great for me. Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have talked to this man almost everyday all day for almost a year. I have spent hours getting to know him and vice versa. We know each others deepest thoughts and feelings. He would spend any free time he had with me and I miss all of it. I miss being able to lay in his arms and feel safe. I miss his voice and his laugh. I can't even remember the last time I heard him laugh or saw him smile and it kills me beyond belief. Whats crazy tho...is during this time and even now there is a huge chunk of his life you know nothing of. He never told you about all the hours spent in bed watching movies with his wife and boy, the nightly dinners, the outings, family events, the social events with friends. I assume he left these details real scarce. I am not minimizing your feelings for each other. But realize there is a whole other part of his life this man was/is leading that you simply arent privy too. Sometimes its so hard for OW to grasp this. She assumes every moment MM ismt with her he is pining for her bc that is what she does. And part of him may have been but another part was also enjoying his other life that ge had no plans to change or rock the boat on until you gave him an ultimatum. Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I am not sure about the emergency part but he told me this morning she will only allow him to see his son at the house and will not let him take him to his house or anywhere. There is no custody agreement in place right now so really it's who files first...He is planning on filing for full custody today with his lawyer. If it's granted then he takes his son full time and she will have to file a petition or come to an agreement to get it changed. This is going to get really, really messy. He said if she wants to play hard ball she is going to get it. He's a jerk. He can't give her some time to emotionally come to grips with the end of her marriage before he starts trying to take her son away from her? I suspect that once you get this guy full time you will see that he is not innocent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MaggieNilson Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Isuggested it but he said he has too much going on right now to even think about that. Really?? Cmon now surely he can spare 1 hr a week. Esp since he pretty much has no responsibilities outside work other than to himself since his W wont let him see his kid on his own. I think its stuff like this that makes posters on this thread question the overall sincerity of your MM Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 He's a jerk. He can't give her some time to emotionally come to grips with the end of her marriage before he starts trying to take her son away from her? I suspect that once you get this guy full time you will see that he is not innocent. He hadn't seen his kid since Thursday night so that's what, 4 days? He wanted to pick him up and take him for ice cream and spend some time with him and she refused. If anyone is a jerk, it's her. She CAN'T deny him access. This is what he has said she would do all along. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Really?? Cmon now surely he can spare 1 hr a week. Esp since he pretty much has no responsibilities outside work other than to himself since his W wont let him see his kid on his own. I think its stuff like this that makes posters on this thread question the overall sincerity of your MM I am sure he can spare an hour a week, I do. He's been to therapy off and on with his wife before, he knows what it is all about. If he doesn't think it will help him right now then so be it. I'm not going to hold that against him. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 My hope for him is that he looks into professional guidance on how to break free from the abuse. My hope for you is that you don't allow him to keep thinking he can use you to dump all his crap your way. If this is to work for him - he's going to need to find his own way - a way that works for him. Hopefully without abuse... His emotional roller coaster is JUST getting atarted - it's a VERY bumpy ride - one I don't recommend you go on with him. Link to post Share on other sites
ChickiePops Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 He hadn't seen his kid since Thursday night so that's what, 4 days? He wanted to pick him up and take him for ice cream and spend some time with him and she refused. If anyone is a jerk, it's her. She CAN'T deny him access. This is what he has said she would do all along. He just deserted her. She's perfectly entitled to be hurt and angry right now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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