Emotional Affair

[PinkSunset]

Why don't you tell him "no" and that he's getting close to "creeper level". There's a difference between nice and honest. Pick the latter. Nice is what got you in trouble before.

 

I have been honest about not wanting anything. I ignored his text from this afternoon so hopefully he will back off.

[PinkSunset]

As a mother I dont blame this lady one bit for not allowing her H to see the child outside the home at this point. Its indicitave of her being level headed and a good mom. Her H has up and unilaterally left the home, refusing to work on the marriage. She certainly knows something is up with him -- maybe he is on drugs, maybe he had an OW, maybe he is mentally ill -- but something is going on that he isnt being honest about. So i dont blame her at all for not voluntarily handing over the child.

 

If he really wanted to spend time with the child he could do so there for an hour. She is not preventing him from seeing the child. On the contrary she is insisting it be done in the manner that at this time at least, is likely best for the kid.

 

I think since you dont have children maybe this mama-bear instinct isnt familiar to you. But her gut is certainly screaming now (assuming she doesnt already know full on of the affair) so its quite natural and not vindictive at all to insist he spend time with the son at the home until a court order is in place. Esp considering she doesnt know WTF is going on.

 

I am sure she knows him well enough to know he isn't on drugs or having anything mental going on. She may suspect an OW as we have talked about but that's not a reason to keep your child from his father is it?

[MaggieNilson]

If he is lying about it yes. Or if she thinks he would bring the kid around the OW then yes. I would not hand my kid over if something seemed off or that i was being lied to.

 

Eventually yes she will have to. But im these initial days when things are so crazy, no. Stability and the childs well being has to be first. Having an A and lying to the mother is not acting in the childs best interest.

[BuddyX]

I have been honest about not wanting anything. I ignored his text from this afternoon so hopefully he will back off.

 

God did not give us the ability to read people's minds. The fact you went out, Gave him an assumption you're into him. And you not responding, thats him thinking "She wants me to chase her and I need to try harder".

 

Spell it out to him "No, I am not interested in you".

[dubliner]

As a mother I dont blame this lady one bit for not allowing her H to see the child outside the home at this point. Its indicitave of her being level headed and a good mom. Her H has up and unilaterally left the home, refusing to work on the marriage. She certainly knows something is up with him -- maybe he is on drugs, maybe he had an OW, maybe he is mentally ill -- but something is going on that he isnt being honest about. So i dont blame her at all for not voluntarily handing over the child.

 

If he really wanted to spend time with the child he could do so there for an hour. She is not preventing him from seeing the child. On the contrary she is insisting it be done in the manner that at this time at least, is likely best for the kid.

 

I think since you dont have children maybe this mama-bear instinct isnt familiar to you. But her gut is certainly screaming now (assuming she doesnt already know full on of the affair) so its quite natural and not vindictive at all to insist he spend time with the son at the home until a court order is in place. Esp considering she doesnt know WTF is going on.

 

Except this isn't letting a stranger or friend take HER child, this is HIS child and as a parent he has as much right to decide what is best for the child as she does. A mother does not have the monopoly on making decisions for the children, a parent has no right to deny the father equal rights in parenting the child simply because she is the mother.

This kind of thinking alienates fathers from their own children, this is power play, using the child as a weapon.

 

Why is it considered cruel or unfair for him to file for full custody? He is expected to leave his child because he is the MAN that has decided to leave the M? Would you say the same to a woman leaving for her OM?

Whether the A is right or wrong it doesn't make him any less a parent.

[MaggieNilson]

Dublin I disagree in a short term immediate setting like this. Ultimately durung this sudden transition and crisis of his father leaving the home, the child needs stability. If it were a mother unilaterally moving out into a rental and refusing the fathers request to work on the marriage, Id feel the same -- that during the crisis stage keeping the child with whats familiar and secure is best. Once the child adjusts to the idea a parent has moved out, then you can start introducing him to the new home. And eventually do 50/50 custody.

 

It has nothing to do with mother vs father -- it has to do with which parent is chosing to abandon the marriage from which the child was born and which is remainimg in the marital/family home

 

Also -- cheating generally indicates poor coping, lack of empathy, and obviously the capacity for deception so yes it does speak to a persons parenting capabilities IMO.

[PinkSunset]

Really Pink? This guy is paying attention enough to understand your feelings... AND he's available AND willing to take you out. So let yourself have some fun with a man who IS available.

 

Go on Pink... Go on and have fun with a man that can offer you FUN and a future!

 

I think it's worth exploring - especially since your married dude won't really be available for at least 18 months to take you out in public.

 

I don't want to lead him on. He is a very nice guy and has a smile that is just, wow... but I have no interest in him. I don't think it's fair so I told him once again that I didn't want anything and he said he would rather wait for someone like me to be ready, than go back to the cesspool of the dating world. He said I am the first woman he has actually liked since his divorce. How can he like me so quickly? It was just friends catching up, at least to me.

 

Except this isn't letting a stranger or friend take HER child, this is HIS child and as a parent he has as much right to decide what is best for the child as she does. A mother does not have the monopoly on making decisions for the children, a parent has no right to deny the father equal rights in parenting the child simply because she is the mother.

This kind of thinking alienates fathers from their own children, this is power play, using the child as a weapon.

 

Why is it considered cruel or unfair for him to file for full custody? He is expected to leave his child because he is the MAN that has decided to leave the M? Would you say the same to a woman leaving for her OM?

Whether the A is right or wrong it doesn't make him any less a parent.

 

Exactly! 100 %.

[PinkSunset]

Anyway I came here to post that MM wife CALLED me and asked me if I had been able to look into a lawyer.

 

I decided I wasn't going to let her intimidate me this time so I just said I hadn't had a chance yet because I didn't really feel comfortable with giving her a lawyer reference for something so personal and then basically she just hung up on me.

 

I think she knows.

 

I haven't spoken to Jamie since Tuesday, I haven't called or messaged him about his wife calling me but I really, REALLY want to.

[lemondrop21]

Anyway I came here to post that MM wife CALLED me and asked me if I had been able to look into a lawyer.

 

I decided I wasn't going to let her intimidate me this time so I just said I hadn't had a chance yet because I didn't really feel comfortable with giving her a lawyer reference for something so personal and then basically she just hung up on me.

 

I think she knows.

 

I haven't spoken to Jamie since Tuesday, I haven't called or messaged him about his wife calling me but I really, REALLY want to.

 

Wait, what? I feel like I've missed something in this story. She called you and asked you if you had gotten a lawyer in relation to what? I thought she didn't know about the A. Also, what would you need a lawyer for?

 

And I know you're going for this NC thing but in this instance maybe he should know that his wife contacted you...

[elaine567]

 

My weekend:

I went to the spa and on my way out I ran into Jamie's wife. I should have known not to go to this place because I knew she went there. I guess I never thought about that I might actually see her there. My face must have been beat red. She asked me how I was and asked me how Kevin and I were! I didn't know what to say, I was so put on the spot that I told her we were doing great! She asked if I had spoken to Jamie recently and I said that we had discussed business a few times but not much. I told her I was running late so I cut it short and while

I was sitting in my car she knocked on the window and then proceeded to ask me if I knew any divorce lawyers, because I had mentioned I had lawyer friends. I said I would look into it for her and get back to her and that was it. I didn't ask why or anything, should I have????

I called Jamie and told him what happened and he said it was completely inappropriate for her to ask me that considering in her eyes I should be just Jamie's business colleague. Also he said she already has a lawyer, and her family knows plenty of lawyers. He thinks she is just fishing. I honestly don't know what to think. Does she know? Maybe it was innocent but maybe not. He doesn't know if she knows Kevin and I are not together. This is easily excused away though I think...

 

He was going to call her and tell her how inappropriate it was but I said not to do it right away or she will know I called him... We agreed he will say something to her today (Monday) as it's more likely I would let him know then.

He invited me over to his place but I declined, she now knows what car I drive though. He is WAY more cool and collected about this than I am.

 

 

Wait, what? I feel like I've missed something in this story.

 

The wife asked Pinksunset to find a lawyer for her

[minimariah]

Why is it considered cruel or unfair for him to file for full custody?

 

let's be real - because Jamie is a jerk. and no, it's really not because he's an adulterer; it's because EVERYTHING seems to be his wife's fault & he seems to be the saint and then... THIS:

 

He said if she wants to play hard ball she is going to get it.

 

^ now... does this sound like something a well balanced, intelligent, GREAT father & a mature man would say...? NO.

 

full custody is ALWAYS a bad idea. always. no exceptions. having full custody means that the other parent is either an abusive one, absent OR that someone is emotionally abusing the child through enabling him to develop a normal relationship with both parents. in situations like these, especially - you have a father who doesn't care much about his child's best interests, who can't be calm & collected (the wife not allowing him to take the child out isn't anything new, by the way; she is probably afraid that he'll take the child and won't get him back + seek and get sole custody on the grounds of child already living with him = HAPPENS OFTEN! so she's being smart about it) + a possible stepmother who already despises the mother = welcome to the wonderful world of PAS. Jamie and the OP aren't any better than his wife; they just like to think they are.

 

chances of him getting full custody are slim; he left the family home. a huuuuuuge minus in the very beginning.

 

I haven't spoken to Jamie since Tuesday, I haven't called or messaged him about his wife calling me but I really, REALLY want to.

 

i just cannot - for the life of me - understand... why can't you FINALLY start minding your own business...? butt out. you're making an already difficult situation 10x MORE difficult by interfering, dehumanizing & demonizing the wife = bringing in a lot of negativity.

[PinkSunset]

Wait, what? I feel like I've missed something in this story. She called you and asked you if you had gotten a lawyer in relation to what? I thought she didn't know about the A. Also, what would you need a lawyer for?

 

And I know you're going for this NC thing but in this instance maybe he should know that his wife contacted you...

 

She doesn't know, at least I didn't think she did at the time! I am not so sure now.

He is aware that I ran into her last weekend and what happened but I haven't told him she called me to follow up. I think she is just doing it on purpose. She either knows about us or suspects/knows I referred him to a lawyer and is pissed about it. Either way, I don't want her calling me!

 

I don't know if I should tell Jamie, or if I should just keep quiet about it all.

[PinkSunset]

let's be real - because Jamie is a jerk. and no, it's really not because he's an adulterer; it's because EVERYTHING seems to be his wife's fault & he seems to be the saint and then... THIS:

 

 

 

^ now... does this sound like something a well balanced, intelligent, GREAT father & a mature man would say...? NO.

 

full custody is ALWAYS a bad idea. always. no exceptions. having full custody means that the other parent is either an abusive one, absent OR that someone is emotionally abusing the child through enabling him to develop a normal relationship with both parents. in situations like these, especially - you have a father who doesn't care much about his child's best interests, who can't be calm & collected (the wife not allowing him to take the child out isn't anything new, by the way; she is probably afraid that he'll take the child and won't get him back + seek and get sole custody on the grounds of child already living with him = HAPPENS OFTEN! so she's being smart about it) + a possible stepmother who already despises the mother = welcome to the wonderful world of PAS. Jamie and the OP aren't any better than his wife; they just like to think they are.

 

chances of him getting full custody are slim; he left the family home. a huuuuuuge minus in the very beginning.

 

 

 

i just cannot - for the life of me - understand... why can't you FINALLY start minding your own business...? butt out. you're making an already difficult situation 10x MORE difficult by interfering, dehumanizing & demonizing the wife = bringing in a lot of negativity.

 

I don't think I am better than anyone else, I just don't agree she should be trying to keep Jamie away from his son. If she would let him have access to him without putting up a stink I highly doubt he would go for full custody.

 

I have been trying to mind my own business, unless you haven't read the last few pages of me trying to stick to NC/LC. I had only been in contact with him because of his wife approaching me. I only know about her keeping his son away because he told me. I don't offer advice or tell him what to do at all. We don't speak daily anymore!

[minimariah]

I think she is just doing it on purpose.

 

she asked for your help - you told her you'd look into it and get back at her and NEVER DID SO. when she called, you blew her off. so she assumes you're on Jamie's side & that's why she's pissed. yes... it really is that simple.

 

there is literally NO reason Jamie should know she contacted you for something you TOLD her you'd do; stop fighting these imaginary battles against his wife.

[minimariah]

I don't think I am better than anyone else, I just don't agree she should be trying to keep Jamie away from his son.

 

she isn't keeping Jamie away from his son - she is keeping Jamie from taking their son OUT of their family home; now, i explained above why is that a good idea. instead od being mature & doing what's best for the child, he is being vengeful & "playing hardball".

 

joint custody is impossible here, obviously - no one involved in this story is even remotely reasonable or mature or thinking about needs other than their own.

 

I have been trying to mind my own business...

 

then why are you even entertaining the idea of telling Jamie that his wife contacted you over something you told her you'd do? like, why would that information be important? aside from you being paranoid and waiting on the moment you'll be busted and wanting to give Jamie headsup.

[elaine567]

Unless there is evidence that the wife actually abuses the son, then no reasonable father would want his 7 yo son to be deprived of his mother.

If he was so worried about his son being abused by the mother, then surely he would left and been holed up in a hotel WITH the son, not phoning for his OW to come round that first few days away.

He is is one piece of work, and although he plays the victim - poor, poor Jamie most of the time - he does let the mask slip every now and again.

[HeCantBreakMe]

Pink- something to think about and I am by NO means an expert but I have done a lot of reading since my own affair both from my side and the BS side. I did read that when you love someone and they want a divorce (and you feel in your gut it is because of someone else and i gaurantee you this wife does) then you fight tooth and nail to keep him in the marriage with you and get him away from the OW. If this means you have to deny access to the kids then you do whatever it takes to wake that other person up from the affair fog.

 

Try and flip this and play devils advocate in your mind for a second. Imagine that the wife is doing this and everything she can think of because she loves her husband and is trying to do everything in her power to keep him and make him rethink walking out on his family.

 

I think you are doing everything you can to stay away and go NC but I would also suggest moving forward with your life. Even if you do not feel it go out and date a little. This sounds like a long messy process you do not want anything to do with until the end has been decided.

 

Stay strong!

[ChickiePops]

I don't think I am better than anyone else, I just don't agree she should be trying to keep Jamie away from his son. If she would let him have access to him without putting up a stink I highly doubt he would go for full custody.

 

I have been trying to mind my own business, unless you haven't read the last few pages of me trying to stick to NC/LC. I had only been in contact with him because of his wife approaching me. I only know about her keeping his son away because he told me. I don't offer advice or tell him what to do at all. We don't speak daily anymore!

 

You do understand that she's just been abandoned and has likely just discovered that her husband has been cheating on her, correct? And you really can't see why she's upset and/or keeping his son away from him?

 

Not to worry..you'll see her point of view when he does this to you, and he will. I don't believe that once a cheater always a cheater adage..but the way you describe him makes Jamie sound like the kind of guy who wants what he wants and everyone who gets in his way will be eviscerated.

[ChickiePops]

You do understand that she's just been abandoned and has likely just discovered that her husband has been cheating on her, correct? And you really can't see why she's upset and/or keeping his son away from him?

 

Not to worry..you'll see her point of view when he does this to you, and he will. I don't believe that once a cheater always a cheater adage..but the way you describe him makes Jamie sound like the kind of guy who wants what he wants and everyone who gets in his way will be eviscerated.

 

Forgot to add..you seem to think that she's an unfeeling robot, and I'm sure Jamie has taught you that. But she's human, and she's hurting, just like you.

[privategal]

Her calling you and confronting you when she ran into you about finding a lawyer...yes...she probably DOES know and thats why you needed to step out and stay out a long time ago gracefully.

This is getting so ugly and messy, surely you can at least empathize when you are a mother and wife it will HURT to lose your spouse and husband and a home breaking up.

She likely isnt abusive but thats fed to you by him to justify his guilt which he will have alot of for breaking up his own home for another woman.

We all can have opinions but the simple easy thing you could have done was told him at the beginning...I need to step back and need to allow you to 100% do this on your own your own way.

I cant help or be involved as I need to let you and your wife and family make your lwn decisions.

Down the line when you have served divorce papers and are fully moved out with custody details and living situatioms ironed out, we can speak...but for now, Id like you to focus on yourself and your family and the divorce proceedings.

You are in the middle of a tornadoe.

Sure you havent spoken to him since Tuesday but you couldve been focused on you, IC and avoided alot of the drama by steering clear until it was over.

You will both likely need joint and individual IC to have hope and I hope you arent discovered, its a miracle if she doesnt know you are the ow.

[HeCantBreakMe]

Her calling you and confronting you when she ran into you about finding a lawyer...yes...she probably DOES know and thats why you needed to step out and stay out a long time ago gracefully.

This is getting so ugly and messy, surely you can at least empathize when you are a mother and wife it will HURT to lose your spouse and husband and a home breaking up.

She likely isnt abusive but thats fed to you by him to justify his guilt which he will have alot of for breaking up his own home for another woman.

We all can have opinions but the simple easy thing you could have done was told him at the beginning...I need to step back and need to allow you to 100% do this on your own your own way.

I cant help or be involved as I need to let you and your wife and family make your lwn decisions.

Down the line when you have served divorce papers and are fully moved out with custody details and living situatioms ironed out, we can speak...but for now, Id like you to focus on yourself and your family and the divorce proceedings.

You are in the middle of a tornadoe.

Sure you havent spoken to him since Tuesday but you couldve been focused on you, IC and avoided alot of the drama by steering clear until it was over.

You will both likely need joint and individual IC to have hope and I hope you arent discovered, its a miracle if she doesnt know you are the ow.

 

Pink I have read too many stories on here where no matter how 'bad' the marriage was and how much the situation progressed the husband still went back to the wife. I would encourage you to focus on you until this mess blows over. Based on what I am seeing/reading I am concerned it isn't over with his wife as much as you want to believe that.

[PinkSunset]

You do understand that she's just been abandoned and has likely just discovered that her husband has been cheating on her, correct? And you really can't see why she's upset and/or keeping his son away from him?

 

Not to worry..you'll see her point of view when he does this to you, and he will. I don't believe that once a cheater always a cheater adage..but the way you describe him makes Jamie sound like the kind of guy who wants what he wants and everyone who gets in his way will be eviscerated.

 

No, I don't see how she can keep her son from him. Sure she is upset and hurting but his son loves his Dad and they have a special bond. It's wrong. She wants Jamie to visit with him at the house because she's trying to save the marriage maybe? He doesn't want to.

 

Also, Jamie up until recently has always just went along with whatever his wife has wanted. To say whoever gets in his way will be eviscerated I think is an exaggeration... This is his son we are talking about, it's a different ball game. He was trying to be civil.

 

I can't remember - how old is his son? How old is the MM?

 

7 and 38.

[PinkSunset]

And I never said she abuses the son. She is a good mom as far as Jamie has said. He doesn't want to take the son away from his mother, he wants him half of the time and wasn't planning on getting that until an agreement was made but obviously she doesn't want that ....he should be able to take him for a couple of hours?!

 

Also I am doing my best to stay out of this "tornado". I realize it's not healthy for me and having her call me and put me on the spot has been stressing me out like crazy.

 

If she knows I wish she would just say it already. Why won't she confront?

[PinkSunset]

Pink I have read too many stories on here where no matter how 'bad' the marriage was and how much the situation progressed the husband still went back to the wife. I would encourage you to focus on you until this mess blows over. Based on what I am seeing/reading I am concerned it isn't over with his wife as much as you want to believe that.

 

I truly hope this isn't the case but I'm not going to stop him if he wants to work it out with her. He has already moved out and done his separation agreement. He has come so far... I hope it's not for nothing. He deserves to be happy.

[anika99]

And I never said she abuses the son. She is a good mom as far as Jamie has said. He doesn't want to take the son away from his mother, he wants him half of the time and wasn't planning on getting that until an agreement was made but obviously she doesn't want that ....he should be able to take him for a couple of hours?!

 

Also I am doing my best to stay out of this "tornado". I realize it's not healthy for me and having her call me and put me on the spot has been stressing me out like crazy.

 

If she knows I wish she would just say it already. Why won't she confront?

 

So if she is a good mom why can't your MM give her some time to recover from having her life turned upside down by divorce? Even if she is being unreasonable why can't he see that it's because she is struggling to cope at the moment and in a great deal of emotional pain. Where is the compassion? the empathy? I think you and the MM have no feelings of kindness towards her because if you allowed yourselves to see her as a fellow human in pain it would force you to acknowledge the deplorable thing you and your MM did to her. You have to be heartless and dehumanize her to protect your own ego's and preserve the image you have of yourselves of being good people. The BW must be turned into a horrendous monster who deserves every bad thing that happens to her so that you two can justify your affair. You won't be able to keep up this denial forever, your actions will eventually catch up with you.