Emotional Affair

[PinkSunset]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, some of it was really hard to read.

 

First, I think that if you are recently separated from your husband and things are not on good terms, you don't just show up at his house. She would have called or texted him if she intended on visiting. I don't blame her for stopping in once she saw my car, I would have done the same. Leaving her 7 year old kid in the car while she knocked on the door is not a crazy thing to do. She could have still seen him perfectly from the door. I could see if she was running into a store or something, but not sitting in a driveway within earshot of him. Esp if she thought she was going to stumble upon something. That is my opinion though, you can all disagree.

 

Second, I agree Jamie is a conflict avoider but he in no way gave his address to his wife so she would just stop by and see us. He gave it to her with the intention she would drop him off on Friday, not show up unannounced on Monday evening. From the texts I read, which he showed me, she was to come over on Friday evening to see the house where their son would be staying and leave him there for the weekend. THIS was the plan. He had no intentions of her ever stumbling upon us, esp with son in tow.

 

Both of those being said, I am not placing blame on her for what Jamie and I have been doing. The emotional affair went on for a few months before we ever got physical (which only happened Friday, Saturday, Sunday, then Monday his wife showed). So 4 days of being physical total, and it wasn't until he had already moved out and filed his separation papers... and yes I've seen them.

We did discuss him telling her he was seeing someone but honestly we didn't have the time to come up with the timeline before this happened on Monday.

 

I DO have empathy for her. I saw it in her face and in her eyes how crushed she was. I do not know the circumstances under which he left, I don't know what he told her other than that he wasn't happy and was sick of living that way. I know he told her nothing about me at all, and at that time we preferred it that way... but now I think it was a mistake. However it wasn't my call to tell her. Personally I think she already knew, she just waited for the right moment to catch us.

 

 

I also want to clarify that after she showed up, my feelings changed on how much I didn't care about it all. I said, I didn't care at the time if she saw my car because of how much I love him... But I do care. I'm sorry for it. I let my emotional turmoil and need to mend my broken heart turn into this big mess. I was doing well without him, and maybe if I hadn't let him into my house that day to see those flowers none of this would have happened. I don't think he fought with me over the flowers just to get me to sleep with him... I know he was jealous and his heart was hurting. We both got caught up in it, but it's hard to say it was a mistake when everything felt so right.

 

I sent one response to her last night and I said "I am very sorry for what happened, (name). I never meant to hurt you. It only happened over the weekend. I am sorry (name) had to be involved in it I hope he is okay. If you want to talk I am open to it"

 

She then sent "You are a betraying wh*re you have had your eyes on my husband for a long time apparently and stab me in the back when I asked you for a divorce lawyer you still slept with him after this and lied to me about you and kevin i hope you rot in hell"

 

So that is it I guess.

[PinkSunset]

What?! You are not making any sense. She didn't know there was another woman until she got there, yet your saying her intention in driving her and her son to her husband's house was just so the son could see what a terrible person his dad is, not just so the son could say hi to his dad and see where he lives. How could the BS's intentions have been to show the son that dad has another woman when she headed over there when she didn't even know about the other woman herself? I'm pretty sure when she decided to go to the house she had no idea you would be there and so I very much doubt she had the sinister intentions you are trying to pin on her.

 

 

Furthermore, you're the one who said you didn't even care if she saw your car at the MM's house. So you and the MM set this up so that the BS would find out in the most horrible way and then you have the audacity to blame her? She had poor judgement? What about your poor judgement? What about the MM poor judgement? It is the poor judgement of the two of you that caused the son to witnessing this drama. Not the BS who had no idea what she was walking into.

 

No, I don't think her driving to the house was to show their son what a terrible person he is... I think she took him out of the car to show him that. She saw my car, she knows my car, she knew when she got out of the car that I was there. She could have just said, give me a couple minutes and checked it out before hand but she didn't... I know she wasn't expecting it. I am sure if my car wasn't there she wouldn't have even stopped in.

[S2B]

This is the heartache that comes when a person is not honest.

 

He's not been honest Pink.

 

And now you have her blaming you as well - for his dishonesty.

 

So - by association - you are the bad guy.

 

Can you see the pattern HE sets up FOR HIMSELF?

 

 

His wife always "looked like" the bad guy.

 

Now it is YOU that "looks like" the bad guy.

 

 

You really want this douchebag Pink? He has problems and big personality issues that you can't fix!!!

 

Stop thinking you need to rescue him - HE is HIS problem!

 

He is a common liar and a cheater. Make no mistake about that.

 

 

These are the reasons why I kept telling you to wait another year until his marriage was technically over. This is pain that can't be fixed.

[PinkSunset]

This is the heartache that comes when a person is not honest.

 

He's not been honest Pink.

 

And now you have her blaming you as well - for his dishonesty.

 

So - by association - you are the bad guy.

 

Can you see the pattern HE sets up FOR HIMSELF?

 

 

His wife always "looked like" the bad guy.

 

Now it is YOU that "looks like" the bad guy.

 

 

You really want this douchebag Pink? He has problems and big personality issues that you can't fix!!!

 

Stop thinking you need to rescue him - HE is HIS problem!

 

He is a common liar and a cheater. Make no mistake about that.

 

 

These are the reasons why I kept telling you to wait another year until his marriage was technically over. This is pain that can't be fixed.

 

I know I am a bad guy. I have been for months. I never said what I was doing was okay or right but I was trying to do it in a better way.

I know he has lied to her and was cheating on her and I am 100% to blame for it too. I was selfish and so was he... We ARE.

He made his bed and now he is laying in it. He could have handled all of this better. He should have told her and I should have made him

 

There are so many should haves could haves would haves but none of it matters now.

 

I am all for him telling her anything she wants to know.

 

 

Pink, you dont even know that she recognized your car. Its very likely your car is not on her radar if she didnt know about you guys or suspect. So you are basing this whole judgment on something you dont even know to be true ie whether she even saw or noticed your card.

 

Secondly, it is so troublesome when someone gives a meaningless apology. If you were TRULY sorry for your actions you would stop doing the said action you are apalogizing for (ie screwing and/or being in a a relationship with her husband)

 

Do you plan to do that? If not then why apologize other than just make yourself feel better i guess. Shameless really. "I'm sorry but watch me keep doing it."

 

And you most certainly did intend to hurt her. You said you didnt care if she found it. You criticized and blamed her and victimized Jamie. Just because you "wish" she hadnt been hurt doesnt mean that you are therefore obsolved from doing the very thing that hurts said person.

 

What is your plan now? Just keep on seeing him I guess?

 

This is such a horrid horrid situation. You were doing well until he "punished" you by giving yo the silent treatment for a week (more manipulation/tactics by him). Again you felt sorry for him even tho he was being unreasonable. You dont see the absurdness in a married man getting jealous his mistress got flowers??

 

There is so much foggy thinking, selfishness, entitlement and just all around yuckiness in this story. Its astounding how you are now a person where lying and deception and spinning is your way of life I guess. (Ie we didnt have time to come up with a story.... we didnt have time to develop a timeline)

 

The ONLY victims here are the wife who is shattered and in the greatest pain of her life most likely, and the son who will probably need therapy and this moment will haunt him for his entire life.

 

I was so surprised to read you say "I can get any man I want". Please note, there are many many decent men who would be repulsed by your behavior in dating and sleeping with a married man, and would have nothing to do with you based on that behavior.

 

Honestly I would like to just run away and not look back. I don't know if I am going to keep seeing him... I think I should really leave him alone now. I agree with everyone that if this is real love, he should deal with his crap and come to me when it's already dealt with. It should never be a bad feeling to be in love with someone... Love should be happy and exciting, which it is, but at a horrible cost.

 

You're right some men would be repulsed by me because of what I've been involved in... I more meant it like, I don't have low self esteem. I know I can date other men.

[Midwestmissy]

Pink, you wrote this:

First, I think that if you are recently separated from your husband and things are not on good terms, you don't just show up at his house. She would have called or texted him if she intended on visiting. I don't blame her for stopping in once she saw my car, I would have done the same. Leaving her 7 year old kid in the car while she knocked on the door is not a crazy thing to do. She could have still seen him perfectly from the door. I could see if she was running into a store or something, but not sitting in a driveway within earshot of him. Esp if she thought she was going to stumble upon something. That is my opinion though, you can all disagree.

 

Second, I agree Jamie is a conflict avoider but he in no way gave his address to his wife so she would just stop by and see us. He gave it to her with the intention she would drop him off on Friday, not show up unannounced on Monday evening. From the texts I read, which he showed me, she was to come over on Friday evening to see the house where their son would be staying and leave him there for the weekend. THIS was the plan. He had no intentions of her ever stumbling upon us, esp with son in tow.

 

 

My take: (I haven't bothered to learn all the nifty posting tricks here)

First, this man is her husband. She has more rights than you. You have none. You have no idea what their terms are. How easy would it have been to not give her the address in the first place? Separated people do that and exchange their kids in a public place. All. The. Time. So guess what, she can just show up. You know what's worse than her intrusive self? Screwing a man who's not your husband then being judgemental and incredulous about the very adult consequences.

 

I asked my wh what the most attractive thing about his mow was. He said she believed every lie he told her, all big eyed and enthusiastic about him and that she had sex with him. That's it. I can concur, she was hideous, but beside the point. Opportunity and willingness and complete idiocy on his part. You saw the texts? That's rich - ever erased a text? Think he's shown texts to his wife that supported his lies? You betcha You're clueless about what happens when he closes the door behind him. But you believe, so he keeps you around. You have no idea what his intentions were. No idea. But man, you are happy to support whatever comes out of his mouth.

 

This guy is a pig and a weakling. And you know what enables him to not have to deal with anything? Drama! Lots of it! "I don't want to lose my wife or mistress, but oh look! A fight about me! I am special!" And nothing gets done except you stay in his stupid triangle. You'll understand it better when you're in his wife's shoes, then you'll say "ohhhhhhh. Crap." What could possibly be manly and sexy about this limp sausage? Oh, right. He wants you.

 

Not sure how many posts are here, but I'm pretty sure none of them have said "go girl!" That's how stupid this situation is.

[S2B]

Stop seeing him. Stop all communication with him until his divorce is final.

 

Start dating men that are available. Men with honor and integrity. Men who don't cheat and lie.

 

Pink - he is NOT a good man. Not a good choice. Not a man to have a future with. He is a man who has big issues that you keep overlooking!

 

You want to be sorry? Then act sorry and stop seeing him.

 

 

What has he done since his wife found out? Did he do the usual avoiding tactic? Or did he go to her and have an honest, adult conversation?

[Lobe]

My wish for you is a visit from the disillusionment fairy.

 

If he really was unhappy in his marriage, he has left his marriage because he was unhappy NOT because he loves you most or better or enough to forsake his vows. That makes you the rebound. The exit strategy. How long does it take before he's feeling better about leaving his unhappy marriage and he wants to enjoy his freedom and find a shiny new plaything?

 

If he did leave her for you because he loves you best and is willing to forsake his vows, then he is a weasel and chances are you'll reap what you've sown, which is a relationship that only existed so long as it stayed in the magical golden affair fantasy bubble, which was promptly popped when BS showed up with a sharp, pointy reality check. *pop*

 

Is there a chance this all blows over and you figure out a way to make things work? Sure. Statistically, most affairs run their course in about 6 months, with the longest ones tapping out at around a max of 2 years once they go public. Less than 5% of affair partners get married; because 2nd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 1st marriages (around 65% - 70% depending on which source you read) the survival rate for AP weddings is marginal. So you can aim to be the ~1% but is it really worth it?

 

Imagine the advice you'd give your BFF or your daughter or your sister trying to knock some common sense into them, and use that as a starting point to proceed from.

[Lobe]

And for the love of God, do NOT continue harassing his BS with patronizing apologies - she doesn't need insult added to injury. Unless you're writing to say look, I realize you have some things to work out - I'm going to disappear for a few months when cooler heads can prevail.

[PinkSunset]

Stop seeing him. Stop all communication with him until his divorce is final.

 

Start dating men that are available. Men with honor and integrity. Men who don't cheat and lie.

 

Pink - he is NOT a good man. Not a good choice. Not a man to have a future with. He is a man who has big issues that you keep overlooking!

 

You want to be sorry? Then act sorry and stop seeing him.

 

 

What has he done since his wife found out? Did he do the usual avoiding tactic? Or did he go to her and have an honest, adult conversation?

 

He went there last night and she told him to get off the property. It's his house, too. She said if he didn't leave she would call the police. I feel sorry for their son. He is probably so confused and she is telling him what a horrible person his dad is.

She told him if he wants to see their son he has to get a court order.

 

I told him I want to leave the province and not look back and he said that would be a selfish thing to do after what just happened. That I can't run from all my problems... He is right. I have done a lot of running in my life when things get to be too much. We put ourselves here... I don't know how to move forward.

 

I just started receiving messages from some number I don't know, calling me a bunch of names. Jamie said it's her sister

[Lobe]

Last thing:

 

copy-paste this in your browser if you want to know if you're being lied to. Her first premise is that you are agreeing to be lied to. Good stuff. ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar?language=en

 

I'm not wanting to make you feel bad about what happened, but help you wise up to the reality of this situation. Run. Until and unless the divorce is finalized, RUN.

[PinkSunset]

And for the love of God, do NOT continue harassing his BS with patronizing apologies - she doesn't need insult added to injury. Unless you're writing to say look, I realize you have some things to work out - I'm going to disappear for a few months when cooler heads can prevail.

 

I sent one message, and I meant everything I said. She can ask me anything and I won't lie. I told MM that if she messages me asking anything that I am not going to further the deceit. He said he was okay with it. I think he is sorry for her finding out this way.

[Lobe]

I told him I want to leave the province and not look back and he said that would be a selfish thing to do after what just happened. That I can't run from all my problems... He is right. I have done a lot of running in my life when things get to be too much. We put ourselves here... I don't know how to move forward.

 

Translation: "Please don't leave me with the mess I made, I can't survive without your love nuggets when my wife isn't letting me manipulate my way back in."

 

He is using you, Pink. He is calling you selfish so that he doesn't have to take any credit. I assure you he has told his wife the affair was all you.

 

You are not running away from YOUR problems, you're running away from HIS. If you can leave, go. And don't leave a forwarding address,

[Lobe]

I think he is sorry for her finding out this way.

 

He's sorry for her finding out, period. Because now he can't let her think it was all her fault he left.

[S2B]

Pink - she is just now realizing that her husband Kevin, is a complete liar and a cheater.

 

Give her some room to process the trauma she now feels.

 

He is not the man she THOUGHT she knew!

 

 

And I guarantee you - he is NOT the man you THINK he is.

 

 

The common denominator in all the mess and pain is HIM.

 

He's a jerk. Maybe some day you will see it for yourself.

 

In the meantime I hope you go NC with him and start dating emotionally healthy and available men.

 

 

Have you worked with your counselor on why you would choose such an inadequate man? He has no morals. He lies. He cheats. He causes harm purposely to those he claims to love.

 

Pink - he's a jerk! You should be choosing a man much different than these qualities he holds!

 

Get a good look at who he REALLY is! You need quiet time away to process things clearly!

 

You have ALLOWED him to make a mess of YOUR life! Stop that.

[PinkSunset]

Yes its very clear Jamie is lying to both his wife and Pink and has been a long time.

 

 

Why do you still have this tone as if she is in the wrong? it blows my mind. Right now she is probably shaking, convulsing, hasnt slept or ate and wont for days. And you expect her to just let him in?? or hand their child over to a man thats been lying to her face and to her son??? Its like you have no concept of marriage or family relationship whatsoever Pink.

 

 

 

 

 

O.M.G. WHAT?? You are totally right you need to leave and not look back. Maybe not physically leave the province, but leave your relationship with him. Of course he is going to manipulate you into not doing it by calling it selfish. Unbelievable Pink. Its like you know the right thing to do but look for any excuse/justification to keep doing your atrocious behavior here.

 

 

 

Pretty much par for the course. I dont think you have any concept of the devastation just wrought upon this wife and family and the far-reaching implications. I dont think you have any concept of much outside of your own single/childless bubble.

 

Do whatever you can to go NC with him and get your life back on track. I know he is appearing to you. Most MM are very charming and handsome and fun and lay on the love thick -- thats why they are married. They are good catches and they have lots of years under the belt pleasing women.

 

No one can charm like the MM.

 

No I don't blame her for not letting him in... I just wanted to tell everyone that he has tried. She won't return any of his phone calls or texts now. I guess now that she has called us every name in the book she has nothing left to say. It's her sister doing it now, messaging him and I. I don't think she should be messaging me at all... We are all in our 30's not teenagers. It isn't needed.

 

He said it would be selfish for me because I helped create this mess. Yes, I did... But i'm not the married one. I did lie to his wife about still being with Kevin but I was put on the spot. I am ready to answer any questions she has. I don't need to be called a lying wh*re and etc. I am not a whore... I never slept with him until after he left. I know it doesn't make it much better but at least there's that.

[anika99]

No, I don't think her driving to the house was to show their son what a terrible person he is... I think she took him out of the car to show him that. She saw my car, she knows my car, she knew when she got out of the car that I was there. She could have just said, give me a couple minutes and checked it out before hand but she didn't... I know she wasn't expecting it. I am sure if my car wasn't there she wouldn't have even stopped in.

 

This is just you pretending that you can be inside the BS head and think her thoughts. You have no idea if she recognized your car or even took notice of it. You have no idea what she was thinking as she was walking to the door with her son. Even if she saw your car she may have been confused and was thinking your being there was innocent until she saw you wearing her husbands shirt with a guilty look on your face. Stop telling us what the BS thinks because you have no clue what she thinks.

 

 

Also no point in apologizing to her or offering to talk to her if you are just going to tell her more lies. Telling her that this only happened this weekend was a bald faced lie. Why do you want to tell more lies?

[S2B]

He being completely selfish! Who would have thought? Just kidding...

 

It's his mess - you can leave if you want to!

 

You're not married to him. You owe him NOTHING!

 

He's thinking of himself.

 

 

You think of yourself PINK - and DO what is RIGHT FOR YOU!

 

It's your conscience - you live with it, not him. It's not for HIM to decide!

 

Stop handing him all of YOUR power!!!

[Lobe]

I never slept with him until after he left. I know it doesn't make it much better but at least there's that.

 

It makes it absolutely NO better. The affair began months ago - the fact you waited until he left to consummate it is irrelevant. You aren't teenagers, so let's stop wallowing in puppy love and use adult language and logic to suss out the details. He left his wife and child to have sex with you, after months of petting and emotional bonding while he was still with his wife. You got caught and continue to lie. So, the timing of actual intercourse? Really not important. SO not important. Not even on the radar unimportant.

 

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance

nounPSYCHOLOGY

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

 

Look, you're trying to justify what is happening because you know it's wrong. I get that. Seriously look at what you are writing. Read it. Do you not see how utterly flawed your logic is? The lies you are telling yourself to make it OK, lies that you would not believe if you were not drowning in your own emotional mess. That voice that is telling you to run away from all this drama is the one you need to listen to. You're not winning any contests for putting up with this sh*t and abuse. Take care of YOU and let him come back when he's got his head on straight.

[ChickiePops]

You keep contradicting yourself. Are you sorry, or do you blame his wife?

[minimariah]

Also no point in apologizing to her or offering to talk to her if you are just going to tell her more lies. Telling her that this only happened this weekend was a bald faced lie. Why do you want to tell more lies?

 

MINDBLOWING.

 

the apology is pointless; one of those -let me reach out first while i know you're not ready so you'll be the one looking petty when you refuse- apologies. mind you, this is the woman who is allegedly abusive... so she JUST found out about the affair + is abusive and you think she'll be ready for a civil conversation...?

 

just mindblowing. NOTHING adds up in this story.

[S2B]

Pink - when an apology is given it has no value if the behavior that caused the offense isn't changed.

 

Are you sorry enough to stop seeing her husband?

 

Don't apologize to her if you plan to see him again!

 

That would be like a kid stealing candy - they apologize but continue stealing the candy... It makes the apology worthless.

 

Change YOUR behavior if you are sorry.

[stilltrying16]

He said it would be selfish for me because I helped create this mess. Yes, I did

WOW. Just when I think he can't sink lower, he steps right up and proves me wrong.

 

This reminds me so much of that email he wrote to you earlier- it shocked many of us, and you said it shocked you too. When he's under pressure, he demands that others prop him up and he blameshifts like crazy. Like an adolescent. And he whines and he's petulant.

 

You know I remember him complaining to you how controlling she was. And yet, in this new relationship with you, he's been so clingy and so dependent on you- wanting you to take control, be there for him and rescue him. So I wonder if their earlier life followed the same pattern. Maybe he's one of those guys who eventually finds a way to get his partner to mother him. Then complains she is too controlling. The kind of dependence he's showing on you now- this clinginess and whining and refusal to own his own ****- I just honestly wonder if he's casting you in the role of his new mommy.

 

Pink, there is major turmoil right now, I know. I want you to be ok, to make all the good choices here on out. I've always felt your bark was worse than your bite. It's almost as though you tested out all your most problematic affairthink here, sometimes quite defiantly, but then actually listened to the responses (most of which were seriously tough love)- really listened. Then modified your behavior and did the smarter or more empathetic thing. So your actual actions were never as worrying as just your words might have suggested. And you were willing to listen to some very hard truths- even if you snapped back something now and then.

 

It's the exact opposite of a pattern I've also seen here- when OW say they welcome all points of view but are put off by posters slamming not even them but their MMs. It's much easier to talk to you and to learn from you!

 

Something changed when you froze the thread for a while- it was during that period that the downward spiral began. So based on that alone, let me just say please keep posting- even if you feel you are backsliding. I've earned quite a few I Told You Sos in my time (not in the context of infidelity, but many many other things) and I've learned enough never to utter those words to anyone else. I for one want to support you and I want you to be happy. I know others do as well.

 

The last decision you made was to sleep with him- and as you point out, this was only after he separated. Left to yourself, you would have handled everything in the open. You told him at the start that you were willing to be there for him if he confronted his wife about her alleged abusiveness (I think you even offered to be there with him). It's not like you to sneak around and hide. So he's the one who put you in this position, and as someone before me pointed out astutely, he's now dragged you into his sneaky underground world.

 

So where are we now? Jamie and his wife and son are in a bad place. I doubt you can help any one of them. Understandably, you want to escape. Is at least a break on the cards? Can you take a weekend off- go someplace with a girlfriend or by yourself? Do something wonderful for yourself and lie in the sun? (Hope your ankle is fully healed btw). It's such a painful process they will be working through now. I don't think you can help. Just stay away. Heal yourself. And if you can, whenever you can, really think about her. Try to look at the world through her eyes. True empathy always helps the empath IMO.

 

In therapy, can you work with her and start digging deeper. What is it about KISA that appeals to you? If the relationship with Jamie continues, how can you avoid repeating any patterns he might have shown in his earlier relationships?

 

And take care of yourself.

Edited June 22, 2016 by stilltrying16

[PinkSunset]

I'm blaming her for bringing their son into it. That's it. Not for the affair and not for anything else. If she has been abusive to him and I know she has, it's still not an excuse for any of it.

 

We've both been selfish and I told Jamie that. I am trying to keep my head on straight.

I thought when BS's find out, the MM usually tries to fix it all and leaves the OW high and dry. This isn't what Jamie is doing, in fact the opposite. I am SO confused. He told me to block the sisters number, she called me 3 times so far and called me an ugly lying wh*re on my voicemail. I told Jamie I can't deal with this. He texted the sister and told her to leave me alone, I guess that just enraged them both even more so.

 

I do need to break off from this and run, I do... I just feel like he is an addiction.

[PinkSunset]

WOW. Just when I think he can't sink lower, he steps right up and proves me wrong.

 

This reminds me so much of that email he wrote to you earlier- it shocked many of us, and you said it shocked you too. When he's under pressure, he demands that others prop him up and he blameshifts like crazy. Like an adolescent. And he whines and he's petulant.

 

You know I remember him complaining to you how controlling she was. And yet, in this new relationship with you, he's been so clingy and so dependent on you- wanting you to take control, be there for him and rescue him. So I wonder if their earlier life followed the same pattern. Maybe he's one of those guys who eventually finds a way to get his partner to mother him. Then complains she is too controlling. The kind of dependence he's showing on you now- this clinginess and whining and refusal to own his own ****- I just honestly wonder if he's casting you in the role of his new mommy.

 

Pink, there is major turmoil right now, I know. I want you to be ok, to make all the good choices here on out. I've always felt your bark was worse than your bite. It's almost as though you tested out all your most problematic affairthink here, sometimes quite defiantly, but then actually listened to the responses (most of which were seriously tough love)- really listened. Then modified your behavior and did the smarter or more empathetic thing. So your actual actions were never as worrying as just your words might have suggested. And you were willing to listen to some very hard truths- even if you snapped back something now and then.

 

It's the exact opposite of a pattern I've also seen here- when OW say they welcome all points of view but are put off by posters slamming not even them but their MMs. It's much easier to talk to you and to learn from you!

 

Something changed when you froze the thread for a while- it was during that period that the downward spiral began. So based on that alone, let me just say please keep posting- even if you feel you are backsliding. I've earned quite a few I Told You Sos in my time (not in the context of infidelity, but many many other things) and I've learned enough never to utter those words to anyone else. I for one want to support you and I want you to be happy. I know others do as well.

 

The last decision you made was to sleep with him- and as you point out, this was only after he separated. Left to yourself, you would have handled everything in the open. You told him at the start that you were willing to be there for him if he confronted his wife about her alleged abusiveness (I think you even offered to be there with him). It's not like you to sneak around and hide. So he's the one who put you in this position, and as someone before me pointed out astutely, he's now dragged you into his sneaky underground world.

 

So where are we now? Jamie and his wife and son are in a bad place. I doubt you can help any one of them. Understandably, you want to escape. Is at least a break on the cards? Can you take a weekend off- go someplace with a girlfriend or by yourself? Do something wonderful for yourself and lie in the sun? (Hope your ankle is fully healed btw). It's such a painful process they will be working through now. I don't think you can help. Just stay away. Heal yourself. And if you can, whenever you can, really think about her. Try to look at the world through her eyes. True empathy always helps the empath IMO.

 

In therapy, can you work with her and start digging deeper. What is it about KISA that appeals to you? If the relationship with Jamie continues, how can you avoid repeating any patterns he might have shown in his earlier relationships?

 

And take care of yourself.

 

Thank you. When I left LS I really had nothing to update because I was sticking to LC/NC and planned on staying that way. Even during the week I was heartbroken I knew LS would just be full of I told you so's, and I wasn't ready to hear it... But you are right when you said that when I left I went into a downward spiral and I did.

My therapist told me a few years back after I finally decided to deal with my rape, that it's probably where KISA developed because I know what it feels like to be vulnerable and alone, needing help and having no one recognize it. She doesn't see it as a good thing... She said sometimes telling people "no" is helping them too.

 

My bark is definitely worse than my bite. I sometimes get on the defensive here because everyone is on team wife, and I didn't expect to have anyone on team OW, but sometimes the things that are said are hard to hear. I deserve most of it I know, and the advice I have gotten here has helped me immensely. I changed a lot of my behaviours and thought I was doing the right thing only to end up in a tornado of chaos. I'm my own worst enemy.

[Lobe]

I thought when BS's find out, the MM usually tries to fix it all and leaves the OW high and dry.

 

I do need to break off from this and run, I do... I just feel like he is an addiction.

 

He left the marriage because he was unhappy, not because you are marriage material. He will have a relationship with her because of their child for the rest of their lives, and so soothing his angry BS and mother of his child is his priority right now. You were always second fiddle, and always will be, no matter what happens. And the ONLY reason you are sticking around is because you so desperately want this to be different. You are completely addicted to the fantasy, which is crumbling faster than you can hold the pieces together.

 

The best way to stop getting into a deeper hole in is to stop digging. So, stop digging. Give him and his family the time and space they need to sort their own mess out.