Emotional Affair

[ladydesigner]

PinkSunset I think you need to take all your focus off the BS for now and just focus on yourself.

 

The loss of a miscarriage or baby carry the same grief: loss of a life that meant the world to everyone involved in the family.

[Onlywhenitrains]

If he wanted to spare her feelings he would have waited until he was divorced to start up with you. Don't fool yourself into thinking he's looking to spare HER. He's looking out for himself, and only himself. HE doesn't want to deal with her feelings and you are new and fresh and you don't have baggage with him.

 

Oh wait..yeah you do. Your relationship started with both of you cheating. you two will never fully be able to trust each other...

 

I won't call you a horrible person for not understanding the devastating effects a miscarriage can have, along with the truly horrible knowledge that you can never have more children..but how dare you minimize her pain. Just because lots of people go through something doesn't mean everyone has the coping skills to deal with it the same way, nor does it mean it doesn't hurt. Having children is a primal instinct in most human beings. Having that wrenched away from you makes you feel not only lost and lonely, but like less of a woman. And having a miscarriage, particularly a violent and unnecessary one like she did, is heart-wrenching.

 

This is undoubtedly what ruined their marriage, and her as a person. She lost a child, she lost the ability to have more children, and now she's losing the man who promised to be with her forever in sickness and in health. 5 years may seem like a long time to you but it's not. Not at all. The baby she lost would be in kindergarten now and I bet she thinks about that every day.

 

I hope you never understand how she feels. I hope I don't either. But I do hope you'll stop speaking so cruelly about her. And before you argue..yes, you are speaking cruelly about her. Have some compassion. If and when you have children, maybe you'll start to get it.

 

 

Pink - I've been following your story, and I hope it turns out well for you. Everything you need to know is pretty much summarized in the post I quote here.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm going to keep on because I think you're writing defensively but you were starting to listen & feel empathy & most importantly QUESTION your actions.

 

You've seen her behavior on a couple of occasions. You have no idea what he's been putting her through in his depression. You have no idea if he's had other 'special female friends' to confide in about his horrible wife.

 

 

My husband was having an EA for 10 months before I finally knew the truth. That means I was walking on egg-shells & loosing my mind for EVERY DAY of those 10 MONTHS, because I knew that something was very, very wrong.

 

The OW has a history with us. He knew that he was doing something cruel & devastating to me, to us. The guilt & conflict was eating him alive. It completely changed his behavior. It can only be described as complete insanity. One moment my life felt almost normal & the next nothing I did was ever right! He said & did some truly vial things.

 

My H is Mr Nice Guy. He really is. Everyone would say that. No-one would believe the way he changed in our home, in our marriage.

 

It was a complete living nightmare. Come d-day the truth was horrific! On d-day I felt like I could breath again for the first time in 10 months. I wasn't CRAZY!! It was such a relief in a way. My mind started linking things together. I was free! It all made sense.

 

If I could say anything to convince you to stop doing this to her I would. Every single day is TORTURE for her! She doesn't understand what is going on in her life. She's trying to save her marriage but she's in the dark! She's blaming herself & he's blaming her for the state of their relationship but she's missing vital pieces of the puzzle. It's AWFUL!

 

Please just listen to what people are telling you. We're trying to save TWO women (& a little boy) a lot of pain here.

[ShatteredLady]

If you do somehow end-up with this MM you will become a step-mother. YOU will be part of the 'nurture' that turns this child into a man, you ALREADY are.

 

If you have the best interests of this child at heart you & her ex-husband will need a strong coparenting relationship with his mother. The more his mother is hurt the more he is damaged. He's already watched his family mourn him becoming an only child.

 

"She lost a child, she lost the ability to have more children, and now she's losing the man who promised to be with her forever in sickness and in health.".

 

I'm shocked if that quote doesn't bring you to your knees. It would me. It's truly heartbreaking.

 

All I'm asking is for you to show a little empathy, show some compassion. If you 'win' leave her with her dignity. Don't treat her like a fool & PLEASE don't leave her to punish herself for her broken, BROKEN (She drove the car that took away her child & her ability to have children & he blames her. Broken!) family forever.

 

Giving her the truth is an awkward experience in MM's life. Having the truth could save her life AND her marriage.

 

Ugh! This is such a tragic mess & I truly don't believe that you have any place in their world of pain & regrets. They could find their way through.

 

 

Many marriages are going through a rocky stage or a sad stage when affairs start. The thing I've realized is.... If it had been me & my H dealing with our stress & problems our "sad patch" would of probably lasted, at the very most, 2 months longer?!? (I was at the end of my surgery recovery & was making Halloween plans when H & OW started messaging.

 

When OW made 3 with a 'friendly ear' our little "stage" our M was going through turned into years & years of agonizing rebuilding, patching-up the wounds, covering the scars. I still don't know if I can keep our little family together. We've been together for 26 years, some fantastic years. We have 2 lovely little kids. A beautiful life really....if you squint a little sometimes.

 

What I can't forgive are all the lies. Tying me up in nots, gaslighting, making me feel so crazy that I even contemplated hiring a PI. Have you heard of 'triggers', things that remind the bs of affair events, creating PTSD symptoms in some cases? Now, when my husband looks into my eyes & assures me of anything my head jumps to him snapping, "of course there's no OW! I don't love anyone, I'm not attracted to anyone. I don't want anyone. I don't need anyone. I don't care about anyone at all!!". I couldn't stop myself, "Even me?"

 

Fun times! "Go straight from adultery too the loony bin. Do not pass GO......."

[DesertHeat]

It could also be possible that he gave her an STD that caused her to lose the baby and rendered her sterile. This happened to a friend of mine. You don't know what's going on in people's marriages.

 

The OOW thought crossed my mind as well.

[elaine567]

I thought the stealing away of another man's gf when he was supposed to be his friend was pretty despicable.

Having an affair with said gf behind his own wife's back was despicable, especially now we know how broken his wife probably is, but now he has sunk even lower in my estimation.

He doesn't have the balls to say, "This isn't working, I am having an affair with PinkSunset, we love each other".

"I want out, I want a divorce, I want custody of my son", but instead he is planning to sneak around and keep his poor wife in the dark for months if not years regarding this affair, deny, deny, deny, and deceive her even further and connive against her to get his own way...

Conflict avoiders rule!

[Cloudcuckoo]

This sorry, pathetic situation makes me positively gag frankly....

 

There are two people in this I feel enormous compassion for, and it isn't the ones who are conniving to deceive.....

 

What a sorry situation....

[SoulCat]

 

And okay he is lying to her and cheating on her... To spare his feelings and to protect himself.

 

 

 

 

There, fixed that for ya.

[NTV]

I'm already familiar with that term, thank you.

 

No one can know if it's all going to be worth it or not, at this point.

 

If it isn't that's something I will have to deal with, isn't it?

 

My apologies. I think my attempt at reverse psychology here came across as snark. And that's not the sort of advice I was trying to give.

 

I was only trying to get you to look up the term and read the fallacy and realize that anything you've invested into this relationship so far doesn't mean anything at this point. That investment has sunk. Where can you put your emotions that now that's going to give you the best return on your investment?

[Sunnycalb808]

Pink,

I know you are getting alot of heat from your story. I think allt of that stems bc it seems you have this disdain and blame against the wife. In your mind you have villified her to 1. Justify the affair (ie if she hadnt treated Jamie so bad none of this would have happened); and 2. Provide justification for why Jamie is not yet divorced (ie she is dragging it out, wants to keep him herself out of spite, etc)

 

Did Jamie talk to her last night? Is he still in the hotel?

 

How he is his state of mind and emotional state these past few days when you see/talk to him?

[PinkSunset]

I just want to apologize for sounding so unsympathetic yesterday. I realize what I said was terrible and to be honest I really shouldn't minimize someone else's pain. I have NO idea what it's like to go through that, I am not a mother and I have no clue what it's like to have that ability ripped away from me.

 

I also agree that I slip into this back and forth routine and it does seem to stem with when I am with Jamie. I think I have a lot of anger toward her because of the things he tells me and the way it seems like he is trapped there with no room to breathe. This is most likely a facade.

He told me he doesn't hate her, that he cares a lot for her still. He said he is not in love with her and wishes she would accept that she isn't in love with him anymore either.

 

I am so sick of hearing about their dead marriage. I am so sick of it all.

 

I have come to realize also that he is a grown man and I have to stop treating him like someone who can't help himself.

[Sunnycalb808]

Im sure it is tiring. Seems like all the focus is on him. And this truly is why, aside from the devastation it causes, that being involved with a man who has not left his marriage isca bad idea.

 

So is he at the hotel? And what happened when he spoke to her last nite?

[elaine567]

I am so sick of hearing about their dead marriage. I am so sick of it all.

 

You are now his "therapist".

He offloads it all onto you, but I am unsure as to the benefit you are receiving from this "relationship".

At least therapists get paid pretty well to listen to the woes of their clients.

 

I have come to realize also that he is a grown man and I have to stop treating him like someone who can't help himself.

YES

[PinkSunset]

It may be useful to understand that is their marriage and theirs ONLY to deal with. Stepping into someone else's private life is a violation - and every time he tells YOU about it all he is betraying her and the marriage even further by inviting an outside person into the private part of their life. It's SUPPOSED to be a sacred Union.

 

You can tell him every time "that's between you two tell HER directly, not me"!

 

Really, he's included you in a place where you have no place being there.

 

And yes, I agree - it's not yours to help him with this. IF anything is to change for him it's up to HIM to do that.

 

Either he will or he won't. Odds are high that he will leave things the same (path of least resistance and that most people don't do change when it takes a lot of effort to make things different). What would he complain about once he leaves her? Some people just LOVE to complain but not change a thing. He could be one of those types.

 

 

He's had things this way for a long time and he never left her. He's used to it. Heck, I knew a guy who had a terrible home life with his wife and had the chance to be with a gal that was super kind and loving - guess what? Being with a mean gal was what he knew, it was his comfort zone, and he will always run back to the mean gal because that's what he knows is normal "for him".

 

He didn't know what to do with the nice gal. It was unfamiliar to him.

 

 

I had an ex who used to talk about our relationship to his ex wife. When I found out I was extremely hurt and felt so betrayed. I guess I had not thought of it that way.

 

 

Im sure it is tiring. Seems like all the focus is on him. And this truly is why, aside from the devastation it causes, that being involved with a man who has not left his marriage isca bad idea.

 

So is he at the hotel? And what happened when he spoke to her last nite?

 

I don't know if he stayed at the hotel or how their talk went. I have yet to hear from him and I am not going to reach out.

[PinkSunset]

You are now his "therapist".

He offloads it all onto you, but I am unsure as to the benefit you are receiving from this "relationship".

At least therapists get paid pretty well to listen to the woes of their clients.

 

 

YES

 

I don't know what benefits I get out of it. He seems to be the one benefiting from all of this and that makes me so angry.

[PinkSunset]

Have you read that book on codependency yet?

 

Your answers are in that book. It should help you in many areas of your life. It did for me.

 

No, not yet. I am up to my ears in paperwork and usually don't have time. I guess now that I have this knee injury I should have some time to read.

 

What was it called again?

[Sunnycalb808]

In normal healthy relationships you arent utterly in the dark like an affair. This man has been leading a secret life for a year now.

 

I suspect since you havent heard from him that he is putting some time and attention into his wife. Whether thats to smooth things over or repair the marriage or addrrss a dday who knows

 

But im sure being in the dark is excruciating.

[elaine567]

It could be. She would not be intimate with him for a couple years prior to this because of the way she felt about not becoming pregnant.

Jamie also said that the way she treated him turned him off so he didn't want to sleep with her anymore anyway.

I think their marriage was in dire straights before Jamie and I even went to that level. I think it was just easier for him because he craved it so much.

 

I am just the idiot because I had a great guy already and I felt sorry for Jamie. I overlooked my own relationship for the sake of someone else and I still feel so terrible about it.

 

YOU have invested so much in this man, with so little in return, you two haven't even slept together yet, which in itself is a bit weird.

 

Truth is he may be so lousy a lover, she made any excuse NOT to sleep with him, you have no idea of the real dynamics of their marriage.

[PinkSunset]

In normal healthy relationships you arent utterly in the dark like an affair. This man has been leading a secret life for a year now.

 

I suspect since you havent heard from him that he is putting some time and attention into his wife. Whether thats to smooth things over or repair the marriage or addrrss a dday who knows

 

But im sure being in the dark is excruciating.

 

I spoke to him last night on my way home and he and I agreed we would try not to talk for a few days in case of the PI. He is convinced someone is following him and that his wife may have even put a GPS on his car. He checked it yesterday and didn't find anything. He looked under the seats and didn't find anything either.

 

I asked him why he cares so much if she finds out, that maybe it would be better for her to know the truth. He said that he doesn't want his son to grow up thinking he had an affair on his mother. I said, but you are.

He has made 3 different reasons why she can't find out. I brought this up and he said they are all reasons for it, there isn't just ONE.

 

I said they aren't reasons, they are excuses. He said I wasn't trying to understand what all of this means for his life.

 

Apparently starting a new life with me would be SUCH a bad thing. I was so upset with him last night. I think it changed some of my views.

[Sunnycalb808]

I still don't believe Jamie is lying to me about anything but I realize that I don't know her side of the story

 

Well you can certainly agree he is at least keeping you in the dark. You have no idea whats going on or transpired in the past 2 days.

 

The fact is, he admits he cares about his wife. It is probably killing him to leave her. And you know he loves his son.

 

Its usually easier to rekindle a dormant neglected marriage if both parties are decent people, than to start over and have to lose so much.

 

But he certainly isnt going to easily tell you of any doubts he is having.

 

I don't get this idea you have of him being trapped. He is the one keeping himself there. Probably bc its really not anywhere near as awful as you think.

[Sunnycalb808]

Can you accept the fact the MAIN reason he doesnt want his wife to know of the affair is bc he knwos it would be a dealbreaker for her, and he isnt 100% sure he wants to leave

 

That is clear as can be

 

I tens to think this PI thing is just to get him off your back for a few days too.

 

He could certainly email or call you from his work without anyone knowing. PIs cant tap private lines or gain access to company servers or emails.

 

Cmon

[stilltrying16]

It could be. She would not be intimate with him for a couple years prior to this because of the way she felt about not becoming pregnant.

Jamie also said that the way she treated him turned him off so he didn't want to sleep with her anymore anyway.

I think their marriage was in dire straights before Jamie and I even went to that level. I think it was just easier for him because he craved it so much.

 

I am just the idiot because I had a great guy already and I felt sorry for Jamie. I overlooked my own relationship for the sake of someone else and I still feel so terrible about it.

 

PinkSunset, here's the way I see it: you have a great capacity for empathy. You also have a great need to be empathetic. Your need to be empathetic will sometimes drown out the little doubting voice that protects many of us from being played. And it might drown out the instinct for self-preservation that prevents us from taking risks for others. Without that necessary skepticism you might occasionally find yourself being carried away by empathy- to the point when you a) endanger your own emotional well-bring, and b) actually misplace the empathy and gift it to someone who doesn't deserve it, or withhold it from someone who does.

 

Both those things might have happened here- I'm not sure they did, but there's a chance that they did. And that would be awful if you'd committed yourself to some irreversible course of action. But the point is you didn't. You haven't. You stepped back -you waited for more facts, and more perspective.

 

Don't forget that you thought to open this thread, to listen patiently to what the doubters among us said. Even if you reacted defensively at first (and who wouldn't- you got some very tough but totally on point talk here) you still mulled over what was said and used it to pull yourself back.

 

Taking risks for others, wanting to help others, is not a terrible thing. Far from it. It just needs to be balanced with skepticism and with a willingness to ask how we know what we think we know. The balance seems easy to those who don't feel suffer from excess of empathy or excess of skepticism but it really isn't easy. I would much rather have the capacity for empathy you do and then ask myself tough questions about whether that empathy is called for, whether it is being wasted on someone who might not deserve it, and whether it is being withheld from someone who does. You're well on your way to finding that balance. I admire you for that. I think there is a chance you're going to walk away from this situation having made things better, not worse.

 

I also want to add that there is a chance that Jamie wasn't misrepresenting everything. My point simply was that you didn't have enough information to be able to tell. Therefore it would be unwise to act on the information you thought you had. And ultimately, after debating various options here, you haven't so far acted on unverified information. If Jamie's motives are good, then he will understand why you chose to pull back. If he doesn't, then he doesn't deserve you IMO. If Kevin eventually figures out that your motives were good, he might come back around. If he doesn't, then yes, it's a loss, explained by bad timing more than anything (he'd already walked away before you started your thread). That happens in life- your motives were good, and you were trying to help. Don't beat yourself up now.

 

There are people who feel a forbidden longing first then find all sorts of ethical justification for it. With you it was the other way around- you felt an ethical pull toward Jamie (rightly or wrongly), abandoned skepticism, and all of this led you to develop feelings for him. You let those feelings carry you away to a point, but then pulled back and are waiting for actual facts and action from him. This second pattern, the one you followed, is so much saner than the first, IMO.

 

Sorry I'm going on and on and am probably being very vague and abstract! Gotta go but I'll come back and revise for clarity. Sending you tons of good wishes and hugs!!

Edited May 17, 2016 by stilltrying16

[noelle303]

So are you saying I should tell his wife?

 

Does he plan on disclosing his relationship with you once he officially leaves her?

 

Because I do agree that she has the right to know and that he should be honest with the woman he spent over a decade of his life with.

 

I mean, as much as I don't believe that a third party can break two people up, I do think that you were a least a factor behind his motivation to change the ''status quo'' of their life and leave, that is important for her to know so she can get appropriate closure on her marriage.

[PinkSunset]

I don't think it's fair to say or ask why or whether or not he cares about his wife at this point. If he didn't care about her at all or in some way I would honestly be shocked by that and taken back.

Of course he cares about her, she is the mother of his son. If you spend 12 years with someone you don't just leave and not try to work out some kind of agreement with them or get on the same page (minus the A). Maybe if the circumstances were different but here they are not and she doesn't know anything about the A.

 

It sounds like most of you just expect him to just say SEE YA and move out and not look back or care about what's next. I don't expect that of him and I don't think any of you should be telling me to expect that either.

 

I DO expect that he at least find a place to live in the next week or so. I DO expect that he try to stay respectful even if she isn't.

 

He sent me an email this morning and did say that she won't agree to anything he has brought up. He is looking at a place tonight to move into and still sees the lawyer tomorrow. He still thinks she has someone following him.

[PinkSunset]

Does he plan on disclosing his relationship with you once he officially leaves her?

 

Because I do agree that she has the right to know and that he should be honest with the woman he spent over a decade of his life with.

 

I mean, as much as I don't believe that a third party can break two people up, I do think that you were a least a factor behind his motivation to change the ''status quo'' of their life and leave, that is important for her to know so she can get appropriate closure on her marriage.

 

He does plan on disclosing when the time is right. We thought it's probably best to wait a few months into the separation before we stop being careful. Even then, he would prefer until the divorce goes through but we will see.

 

I think if it wasn't for me showing him he could be happy again, he wouldn't be leaving. You are right on that... He would still stay in his unhappy marriage.