elaine567 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 It sounds like most of you just expect him to just say SEE YA and move out and not look back or care about what's next. I don't expect that of him and I don't think any of you should be telling me to expect that either. OK, so he is living at home again. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The narrative cheaters create to justify what they are doing......sigh He is being so decent to her bc he cares and has history and certainly wont just "abandon" her.....yet he is lying thru his teeth daily, gaslighting her when she asks over and over if there is someone else... He is doing it this way...hiding the affair...to help HIMSELF. And to keep a door open with her in case he changes his mind. Lets call a spade a spade and not paint this man as "doing the right thing" by leaving gradually or trying to "talk" to her I still dont Get why you are staying in contact. Why not just have him contact you once divorce is filed and he has a 12 mo lease in place. I mean he isnt even giving you anything currently support or companiomship wise now anyway. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Pink - a few things I'm confused about. Did he previously see a lawyer like he said a few weeks ago? And has he been staying at the hotel all week or did he go back home? He did see a lawyer already. His second appointment is tomorrow. He was trying to get his wife to give him and idea of what she would be okay with in the separation agreement but he has gotten no where with it or with her. I didn't ask if he is still at the hotel. He is going to see a house tonight to move into, that's all I know right now. I haven't responded to his email. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 The narrative cheaters create to justify what they are doing......sigh He is being so decent to her bc he cares and has history and certainly wont just "abandon" her.....yet he is lying thru his teeth daily, gaslighting her when she asks over and over if there is someone else... He is doing it this way...hiding the affair...to help HIMSELF. And to keep a door open with her in case he changes his mind. Lets call a spade a spade and not paint this man as "doing the right thing" by leaving gradually or trying to "talk" to her I still dont Get why you are staying in contact. Why not just have him contact you once divorce is filed and he has a 12 mo lease in place. I mean he isnt even giving you anything currently support or companiomship wise now anyway. I think self preservation isn't a bad idea in his case because her family can afford pitbull lawyers and I don't blame him. If he is unhappy in his marriage and wants to leave, why does she want to make him stay? Why fight him on everything? Also, it's not for sure there is even a PI. She isn't constantly accusing him of being with another woman or anything. She says he is a coward and a low life loser because he is leaving. He emailed me this morning and I haven't replied and don't plan on it. I told him yesterday to let me know once he is moved out. He isn't moved out and so I have nothing to say. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Of course he is at home. If he were at the hotel he would tell you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 . I told him yesterday to let me know once he is moved out. He isn't moved out and so I have nothing to say. I am now starting to feel a bit sorry for "poor Jamie". He is a weak man caught in the middle of a power struggle between his OW and his wife, only his wife doesn't even know yet that she is in a power struggle... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 You are sacrificing all your values for something so unsure. Have you considered Jamie if he does divorce may want to sow his oats? I mean is he promising you a committed relationship or engagement or just being vague or what? Ita very likely he wont be able to really have a relationship with you bc his son will have so much disdain for you. Bc the wife will find out. These things rarely if ever successfully shield themselves. Oh what a coincidence just a week after divorce here is my new girlfriend.... Cmon now. I think people here try to appeal your sense of right and wring to get you to stop this. But it might be more effective to appeal to your wants and desires. If you really wanted a chamce at a future with Jamie youd just go byebye for now...date others...then reconnect in a year or so. But i guess you are so unsecure in his love that you feel if you domt campaign with signs and banners all during his marriage/separation/and divorce he will forget about you or find interest in another? Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 You should ask Jamie if you can go to the lawyer appt. See what his reaction is. That will tell you everything you need to know. Link to post Share on other sites
dubliner Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I am now starting to feel a bit sorry for "poor Jamie". He is a weak man caught in the middle of a power struggle between his OW and his wife, only his wife doesn't even know yet that she is in a power struggle... Yes, indeed but of course it's a power struggle he created, he started this whole mess by not being honest, by not telling his W the truth, from the beginning, like.. 'I'm developing feelings for Kevin's girlfriend, the ones we bbq and socialise with..' or 'Our relationship isn't working for me, i don't want to fix it or I can't see that we can, I want to discuss divorce because I want to pursue a relationship elsewhere.' I don't think I'd feel sorry for him one bit Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Yes, indeed but of course it's a power struggle he created, he started this whole mess by not being honest, by not telling his W the truth, from the beginning, like.. 'I'm developing feelings for Kevin's girlfriend, the ones we bbq and socialise with..' or 'Our relationship isn't working for me, i don't want to fix it or I can't see that we can, I want to discuss divorce because I want to pursue a relationship elsewhere.' I don't think I'd feel sorry for him one bit Jamie and I are at fault for all of this. The way his wife has treated him is not an excuse to have an A. I was using that as one before but I realize it's unfair to say that as I don't know what really goes on there. I feel sorry for the aftermath that Jamie will have to go through more than anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I don't plan on talking to him unless it's really necessary. What is your criteria for "really necessary"?? Inever had any reason not to trust him. Except for the fact he lies to his wifes face daily with no problem. That in fact is a very GOOD reason not to trust him. Edited May 18, 2016 by Sunnycalb808 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I feel sorry for the aftermath that Jamie will have to go through more than anything. What about his little son? How is he going to feel? His life is going to be turned upside down and not in a good way either. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ChickiePops Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Jamie and I are at fault for all of this. The way his wife has treated him is not an excuse to have an A. I was using that as one before but I realize it's unfair to say that as I don't know what really goes on there. I feel sorry for the aftermath that Jamie will have to go through more than anything. You feel sorry for yourself but not his wife and child? ...wow. No words for that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The aftermath he created by being conflict avoidant and cheating on his wife and son, taking his marriage outside his home and exposing it to new "friends".... Pink i wish you could see the craziness u spew. Its like again you get clarity...then get clouded anytime you see, talk to or even dwell upon Jamie. This man is the last one you should feel sorry for! Evn if he is a nice caring person...this is all his doing. Plus hes cultivated a really nice soft landing spot for himself if he does divorce. Nothing to feel sorry for but his wife and xhild here 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SoulCat Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I just don't think telling his wife is an option for him right now so yes I am defending it. If she is in fact hurting from him leaving, I think knowing about me would make it horribly worse and I don't want that. But that would be the honest, honorable thing to do. At least then she'll know what she's up against. Right now, she is fighting for her marriage, but unaware of the invisible ally in her husband's corner. I'd love to make you understand how unfair that is but I doubt you'll listen, or care. I'm also pretty sure you're not doing it out out of the goodness of your heart, to not make it 'horribly worse' for her. Let's be honest, you don't give a hoot about her, she's just an obstacle to your fairytale ending with Mr. Wonderful. You are doing it out of selfishness. You are doing all of this out of selfishness. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 i'm confused - is he fully moved out? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 You feel sorry for yourself but not his wife and child? ...wow. No words for that. When did I ever say I felt sorry for myself? But that would be the honest, honorable thing to do. At least then she'll know what she's up against. Right now, she is fighting for her marriage, but unaware of the invisible ally in her husband's corner. I'd love to make you understand how unfair that is but I doubt you'll listen, or care. I'm also pretty sure you're not doing it out out of the goodness of your heart, to not make it 'horribly worse' for her. Let's be honest, you don't give a hoot about her, she's just an obstacle to your fairytale ending with Mr. Wonderful. You are doing it out of selfishness. You are doing all of this out of selfishness. I am selfish because I don't want her to go through any more hurt than she already has to? Okay. I guess what you're saying then is I should tell his wife? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 What is your criteria for "really necessary"?? Except for the fact he lies to his wifes face daily with no problem. That in fact is a very GOOD reason not to trust him. Sorry, just saw this one... As in, him being already moved and in his own place. As in, showing me his separation agreement. Even so, I'm not going to be his constant visitor and "emotional tampon" as you all have put it. I am distancing myself. Link to post Share on other sites
SoulCat Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I am selfish because I don't want her to go through any more hurt than she already has to? Okay. O please, you are not doing it out of consideration to her or her feelings. You're just scared of the potential fall-out, and it not going your way. I guess what you're saying then is I should tell his wife? No, her husband should. You should butt out. Completely. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ChickiePops Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 When did I ever say I felt sorry for myself? I am selfish because I don't want her to go through any more hurt than she already has to? Okay. I guess what you're saying then is I should tell his wife? I misread. But regardless, Jamie deserves whatever hell his wife puts him through. You should feel sorry for her and her poor child. He doesn't need your pity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Telling his wife is the quickest way to get to the end of this chapter. Yes jamie will be pissed but it will bring everything out in the open. Jamie will no longer be able to manipulate you both. If Jamie truly loves you he then can be free to be with you. She wont get anymore custody over this...and she us going to fight him on stuff anyway. She deserves to be on equal playing field and know exactly what it is she is trying to save Ideally Jamie would do it but he is too cowardly 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stilltrying16 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I really do see Pink differently. While most APs I've heard about or seen here start with an attraction and then develop empathy for the wayward, it was the other way around for PS. She first felt empathy for Jamie and was indignant on his behalf. Then she thought of helping him out and then developed feelings for him. That's the trajectory that I see in her posts. Various posters here including me have trying to ask if her empathy was misplaced- and if it was based on partial or misleading information. I appreciate it that Pink addressed those questions fully even though they couldn't have been all that comfortable to take on. I also feel that she is far more empathetic to the BP than she was in the beginning, IMO. As a stubborn person who clings to attitudes long after they should be abandoned, I for one recognize and appreciate that in Pink. Yes, there's occasional defensiveness, but she tends to move past it a lot quicker than I would. FWIW, she's also a lot more empathetic to the BP than Jamie is (though that's not a high bar, sadly ). I think when a person is genuinely empathetic then there is a much greater chance of things turning out ok once she has better information or a new perspective. Even if the empathy is misplaced at first. The alternatives- developing an attraction to an MM just because something is forbidden, or in some cases, out of competitive feelings towards the BP- are much more problematic IMO. There's also the fact that she did come here and post...an AP has to be open-minded to do that at all. JMO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 I really do see Pink differently. While most APs I've heard about or seen here start with an attraction and then develop empathy for the wayward, it was the other way around for PS. She first felt empathy for Jamie and was indignant on his behalf. Then she thought of helping him out and then developed feelings for him. That's the trajectory that I see in her posts. Various posters here including me have trying to ask if her empathy was misplaced- and if it was based on partial or misleading information. I appreciate it that Pink addressed those questions fully even though they couldn't have been all that comfortable to take on. I also feel that she is far more empathetic to the BP than she was in the beginning, IMO. As a stubborn person who clings to attitudes long after they should be abandoned, I for one recognize and appreciate that in Pink. Yes, there's occasional defensiveness, but she tends to move past it a lot quicker than I would. FWIW, she's also a lot more empathetic to the BP than Jamie is (though that's not a high bar, sadly ). I think when a person is genuinely empathetic then there is a much greater chance of things turning out ok once she has better information or a new perspective. Even if the empathy is misplaced at first. The alternatives- developing an attraction to an MM just because something is forbidden, or in some cases, out of competitive feelings towards the BP- are much more problematic IMO. There's also the fact that she did come here and post...an AP has to be open-minded to do that at all. JMO. Thank you. You seem to be the only one here that actually understands me. No, I am not perfect and I know I should have walked long ago. I am doing my best to be on the right path right now too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Apparently that still makes me that bad guy here though. See above post by me. The reason you are still "the bad guy" is b/c you are pushing him to divorce. You should just say "I cant be with you while you are married. If you end up divorced I would certainly love to be with you." Instead you are edging him to divorce...nudging him to see the lawyer, find his place, leave his wife. Visiting him at his hotel, giving your opinions on his course of action, telling him about your hurt knee, etc etc You should be giving him complete space so he can figure out if he wants to try to work on and improve/save his marriage, or call it quits WITHOUT you in his ear 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little, but would he really be ending his marriage of 12 years just for the sake of a woman who he has never even slept with? It is my opinion that if he is really moving out and getting a divorce, this marriage definitely has had issues and problems for a long time and he doesn't want to repair them or feels that they are beyond repairment. Pink, I do believe that he should tell his wife about you though. I know you think that she would go crazy and make your life hell, but you are risking it anyway if she finds out later on. The lies can be what hurts the worst. He can tell her in a loving and honest way that he feels that they aren't happy and they both deserve to be, he met you, has feelings for you, hasn't physically cheated and would like a dignified ending worthy of their relationship. You are absolutely right. We love each other but I am a small small factor in the big picture here. If Jamie wants to tell his wife I will support it regardless of what it means for me. I put myself in this and I will take the repercussions too. Right now he does not want to tell her and I don't think it is appropriate for me to do so either. Link to post Share on other sites
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