SoulCat Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I am selfish because I don't want her to go through any more hurt than she already has to? Okay. O please, you are not doing it out of consideration to her or her feelings. You're just scared of the potential fall-out, and it not going your way. I guess what you're saying then is I should tell his wife? No, her husband should. You should butt out. Completely. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ChickiePops Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 When did I ever say I felt sorry for myself? I am selfish because I don't want her to go through any more hurt than she already has to? Okay. I guess what you're saying then is I should tell his wife? I misread. But regardless, Jamie deserves whatever hell his wife puts him through. You should feel sorry for her and her poor child. He doesn't need your pity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Telling his wife is the quickest way to get to the end of this chapter. Yes jamie will be pissed but it will bring everything out in the open. Jamie will no longer be able to manipulate you both. If Jamie truly loves you he then can be free to be with you. She wont get anymore custody over this...and she us going to fight him on stuff anyway. She deserves to be on equal playing field and know exactly what it is she is trying to save Ideally Jamie would do it but he is too cowardly 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stilltrying16 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I really do see Pink differently. While most APs I've heard about or seen here start with an attraction and then develop empathy for the wayward, it was the other way around for PS. She first felt empathy for Jamie and was indignant on his behalf. Then she thought of helping him out and then developed feelings for him. That's the trajectory that I see in her posts. Various posters here including me have trying to ask if her empathy was misplaced- and if it was based on partial or misleading information. I appreciate it that Pink addressed those questions fully even though they couldn't have been all that comfortable to take on. I also feel that she is far more empathetic to the BP than she was in the beginning, IMO. As a stubborn person who clings to attitudes long after they should be abandoned, I for one recognize and appreciate that in Pink. Yes, there's occasional defensiveness, but she tends to move past it a lot quicker than I would. FWIW, she's also a lot more empathetic to the BP than Jamie is (though that's not a high bar, sadly ). I think when a person is genuinely empathetic then there is a much greater chance of things turning out ok once she has better information or a new perspective. Even if the empathy is misplaced at first. The alternatives- developing an attraction to an MM just because something is forbidden, or in some cases, out of competitive feelings towards the BP- are much more problematic IMO. There's also the fact that she did come here and post...an AP has to be open-minded to do that at all. JMO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 I really do see Pink differently. While most APs I've heard about or seen here start with an attraction and then develop empathy for the wayward, it was the other way around for PS. She first felt empathy for Jamie and was indignant on his behalf. Then she thought of helping him out and then developed feelings for him. That's the trajectory that I see in her posts. Various posters here including me have trying to ask if her empathy was misplaced- and if it was based on partial or misleading information. I appreciate it that Pink addressed those questions fully even though they couldn't have been all that comfortable to take on. I also feel that she is far more empathetic to the BP than she was in the beginning, IMO. As a stubborn person who clings to attitudes long after they should be abandoned, I for one recognize and appreciate that in Pink. Yes, there's occasional defensiveness, but she tends to move past it a lot quicker than I would. FWIW, she's also a lot more empathetic to the BP than Jamie is (though that's not a high bar, sadly ). I think when a person is genuinely empathetic then there is a much greater chance of things turning out ok once she has better information or a new perspective. Even if the empathy is misplaced at first. The alternatives- developing an attraction to an MM just because something is forbidden, or in some cases, out of competitive feelings towards the BP- are much more problematic IMO. There's also the fact that she did come here and post...an AP has to be open-minded to do that at all. JMO. Thank you. You seem to be the only one here that actually understands me. No, I am not perfect and I know I should have walked long ago. I am doing my best to be on the right path right now too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Apparently that still makes me that bad guy here though. See above post by me. The reason you are still "the bad guy" is b/c you are pushing him to divorce. You should just say "I cant be with you while you are married. If you end up divorced I would certainly love to be with you." Instead you are edging him to divorce...nudging him to see the lawyer, find his place, leave his wife. Visiting him at his hotel, giving your opinions on his course of action, telling him about your hurt knee, etc etc You should be giving him complete space so he can figure out if he wants to try to work on and improve/save his marriage, or call it quits WITHOUT you in his ear 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little, but would he really be ending his marriage of 12 years just for the sake of a woman who he has never even slept with? It is my opinion that if he is really moving out and getting a divorce, this marriage definitely has had issues and problems for a long time and he doesn't want to repair them or feels that they are beyond repairment. Pink, I do believe that he should tell his wife about you though. I know you think that she would go crazy and make your life hell, but you are risking it anyway if she finds out later on. The lies can be what hurts the worst. He can tell her in a loving and honest way that he feels that they aren't happy and they both deserve to be, he met you, has feelings for you, hasn't physically cheated and would like a dignified ending worthy of their relationship. You are absolutely right. We love each other but I am a small small factor in the big picture here. If Jamie wants to tell his wife I will support it regardless of what it means for me. I put myself in this and I will take the repercussions too. Right now he does not want to tell her and I don't think it is appropriate for me to do so either. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 The "right thing to do" is what, in your opinion? Continuing to work on a marriage that has already been worked on time and time again? Continue being with someone who verbally abuses you every day? Stay for the kid, so he can grow up with his parents sleeping in separate rooms, both unhappy, and think its normal. But you dont know this to be true. And you have no position to say what is right for two married peoole AND a child that isn't yours. My god if anything HE is emotionally abusing her by lying to her ebery day and now gaslighting her. The only right course of action is for you to go NC fully. And to stop making judgements on **** you have no personal knowledge of other than 2 bbqs where she was rude to him. Stop with the texts and emails and boo boos and missing you and stay out their business. That is the right thing to do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 But everything in life is a choice. Staying in this marriage or leaving is a choice he has to make anyway - whether there is someone on the other end or not. Personally, these types of things are very much a case-by-case situation, but I honestly don't see the problem in outside motivation to make a change in your life. Sometimes people in broken marriages become very passive and feel like there is nothing better out there for them so they might as well stay. Maybe he needed something to pull him out. That is exactly how he explained it to me as well. He said I made him realize what it is like to feel happy again and look forward to the future. Even if his future doesn't involve me, I will be happy for him to be living a happy life. That is what I want most for him. Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Folks, a previously banned member invaded and we had to do some cleanup. There may be a few hanging quotes from respondents but we tried to get most of the discussion cleaned up. As a reminder, moderation does check long threads and our guidelines apply regardless of whether we stop by and post like this or not. We thank you in advance for your conforming postings and assisting members in their interpersonal relationships! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 But you dont know this to be true. And you have no position to say what is right for two married peoole AND a child that isn't yours. My god if anything HE is emotionally abusing her by lying to her ebery day and now gaslighting her. The only right course of action is for you to go NC fully. And to stop making judgements on **** you have no personal knowledge of other than 2 bbqs where she was rude to him. Stop with the texts and emails and boo boos and missing you and stay out their business. That is the right thing to do. She is verbally abusive I have seen it. It was more than 2 bbq's but that doesn't matter. You are right I don't know everything that goes on there and I have been minding my own business... Since Saturday. Anything he has said to me since then has been by his own doing, I have asked very little. If it weren't for him suspecting a PI I think he would be constantly trying to contact me which would make it that much harder to ignore him. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 So you dont think ita possible he may be purposely sidelining you at the moment? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 So you dont think ita possible he may be purposely sidelining you at the moment? We had agreed a couple times that we would try to talk less but he never followed through and would always call/email/message. It wasn't until he suspected the PI that he really toned it down...yet he is still the one making first contact. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnycalb808 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 But what is his overall tone about divorving? I just still suspect he is purposely distancing you to allow him time to see if he wants to work things with his wife out Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 We had agreed a couple times that we would try to talk less but he never followed through and would always call/email/message. It wasn't until he suspected the PI that he really toned it down...yet he is still the one making first contact. For a guy that's worried about a PI I don't think he's being too smart about contacting you. And just because he contacts doesn't mean you are required to respond. He's either gonna divorce her or not. Appeasing his ego in the meantime isn't your job. Do you have will power enough to not respond? I see you as an open minded, compassionate type - but you really need to look out for your best interest first. If that includes keeping your distance until he's actually available - then so be it. If you do it that way and he does get divorced - it may be easier on your conscience to start seeing him when that time comes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Hope you're doing ok Pink! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 For a guy that's worried about a PI I don't think he's being too smart about contacting you. And just because he contacts doesn't mean you are required to respond. He's either gonna divorce her or not. Appeasing his ego in the meantime isn't your job. Do you have will power enough to not respond? I see you as an open minded, compassionate type - but you really need to look out for your best interest first. If that includes keeping your distance until he's actually available - then so be it. If you do it that way and he does get divorced - it may be easier on your conscience to start seeing him when that time comes. I haven't responded at all and it hurts. I do have the will power it's just very hard. Hope you're doing ok Pink! I am surviving. My knee injury is keeping me home in the evenings and it's tough because I am stuck in my mind. I did look for that book yesterday that you suggested and found it. I haven't started it yet, you can also buy the workbook for it too. Jamie called me 3-4 times last night (it was Thursday, surprise) and I ignored all of them. He left a voicemail saying he loved the place he looked at and he put a deposit down. He just wanted to tell me he loves and misses me. He thinks I am mad at him and I'm not... I feel I need to clarify this with him but I know I shouldn't. My therapist says I am doing the right thing by staying away for now. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SomethingToSay Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Did his voicemails say anything about how his attorney meeting went? I am pretty certain he knows you love him by now. And again, providing him reassurance of that is not what you want to do, if you are truly wanting him to be leaving his marriage b/c he needs to (and not b/c of you) I guess my concern IF he did move out -- is he moving out of as a "trial separation" or moving out as a divorce? I have read lots of time about men who go back and forth. They get themselves set up outside the home, have their girlfriend they are free to see, but still keep the GF hidden, and actually spend lots of time back at the home too...under the guise of being with the child. Its creepy in a sister wifes kind of way. He needs to be FILING for divorce. not separation..not mediation. Divorce. Anything short of that and he's waffling IMO 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stilltrying16 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Truly sorry it is that hard. And proud of you, Pink! The therapy seems to be helping too. I've read here and elsewhere that every time you don't give in you get that much stronger. I have been meaning to ask about your knee. How long did they say for it to heal? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Good for you for keeping NC I know it is not easy. You are strong right now Pink that is something to be commended for! I would follow the advice of waiting for a D in the meantime keep your options open! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Read the book :-) You are staying away so he can do what he said he intends to do. And by staying away you can do what you need to do. He will have plenty of time to process what HIS divorce means to him. He doesn't need to USE YOU to do that. Heck, he can see a therapist if he needs input and guidance. It's healthy if he processes what's taking place in HIS life! Bringing you into that mix to muddy the waters is not best. That's just awful. The more you stay out of it the better off things will become clearer - for him and for you. He has his whole adult life to untangle - and that's for him to do. He knows you love him. He knows how to find you once he is an available man. Until he's free from his marriage - he is still taken. IF he gets divorced and you start seeing him again - you will have better peace of mind about seeing him when that time is right. Proper order is key. Let him do what he needs to do! He either will or he won't. It's not yours to do. Believe me - when he files he will tell you. When he actually moves out he will tell you. Until he does those things he's just talking to the air about nothing. Future faking is cruel - he needs to show change and action if he's to be believable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Another really good small book about types of love and has to do with family of origin is Mastery of Love by Don Miguel Ruiz. That's worth reading - especially if he is used to abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
SomethingToSay Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Pink, any update on this or MM? How are you doing? Link to post Share on other sites
Author PinkSunset Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Thanks for the support everyone. MM has contacted me a few times and after a lot of begging I finally responded... I told him I was not mad at him, that he just needed to deal with his crap on his own without me in the picture. He says it's hard to function without me. He said he is set to move into his new place on June 1st. I told him to let me know how the move goes. I haven't talked to him since and that was Saturday. My knee is healing but it still hurts to do anything strenuous. I have been trying to go for short walks, actually I met with an old school friend over the weekend. We connected on FB a couple of weeks ago and decided to go for a coffee and a walk. It was mostly just small talk and catching up, talking about some old mutual friends. He mentioned to me that he is divorced and has two small children. I told him I just recently broke up with my boyfriend. I didn't want to mention anything about MM, should I have? I feel like because we are both "single" he might try and pursue something. He is attractive and has a good job, is smart and seems like a good guy. I'm not ready for dating though and I still think about Jamie all day long Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Has MM filed? Does his wife even know he's planning to move? Is there any way to confirm any of this? Link to post Share on other sites
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