Emotional Affair

[bewell]

I have already read through some and these women sound so much like me. I am glad I haven't gone fully physical with him because I know it would be amazing and I just know it would make leaving him that much harder.

 

The threads here are heart breaking. I have yet to see one where the OW gets her man and they live happily. Do you know if any of those threads exist on here? Probably 1 in 500.

 

I feel my situation is not getting better. I'm lost and worried and really truly wish I would have seen this coming. Unfortunately I still have SO much hope. What's wrong with me?

 

 

I have a quick story on this. I know one woman (we are FB and Instagram friends) who got the MM, married him, and had a baby. They are living happily together and planning on baby #2.

 

I asked her how they met and she was a little hesitant to tell me at first for fear that I'd judge her. I told her no to worry about that cause I am/was in a situation with MM and was genuinely curious. Anyway, she met her MM (now DH) while she was doing her call girl business. He was repeat client. You know the story: unhappy MM, seeks out sex outside his marriage, and they fall in love. MM divorced his W whom he has three children with to start anew. She's 28 and he's 48. I then asked her if she ever worries that maybe one day he'll do what he did to his W and she said with complete confidence that he would never attempt to cheat on her.

Edited May 6, 2016 by bewell

[SomethingToSay]

So if he is plannimg to divorce then why js he so worried his wife overheard your conversation?

 

If he is divorcing what does it matter? Presumably he is going to tell her he is divorcing her right?

 

So you still plan to ditch contact with him for the weekend?

 

Have you asked him point blank when the last time he had sex with his wife is?

[PinkSunset]

I have edited out our email signatures and copy and pasted but this is what's happening right now. I think this is our first real argument. I hope this is allowed:

 

I can’t think or eat. I don’t get why you are doing this now….

 

Did you expect that I would just live this way forever? I asked for time to think and it is driving you mad. Why? You are not thinking about me at all right now!

 

Your all I think about please don’t be this way and no I don’t expect you to live any way you are not comfortable with, I just want an explanation for the way you are being and the way you were at lunch I deserve that much I gave you what you wanted I made th appointment

 

Wow Jamie! What I wanted???? You should be doing this on your own! This should be what YOU want too! You would be fine living life as a lie and continuing to let me waste my life waiting for something that you had no intentions of! You are completely not who I thought you were right now! Disgusting!

 

I haven’t changed a thing and I have done everything I said I was and done everything you ever asked me to so what is the issue here? I do want to leave I have for years this is not new to you or me you know my circumstance you know where I am at in life and you know how she is to live with you somehow think I am staying because I want to? I stay because of micah are you asking me to disrupt my sons world? Ok add, ill blow up his world and blow up yours and mine and joes in the process and I wont worry about anyone else but you since you the only one here that apparently matters

 

I don't even know how to answer this, I am getting ready to leave for the day and take off and not look back until Monday.... I am raging mad.

 

 

And to answer your question, he said they don't sleep together and that they haven't even kissed in two years.

[SomethingToSay]

Also, you are going with him to the lawyer consult right? Since you two are deeply in love and he desparately needs you. And this impacta you since you two are building a life together. So I assume you will be going with? Or at least giving him a ride?

[PinkSunset]

Also, you are going with him to the lawyer consult right? Since you two are deeply in love and he desparately needs you. And this impacta you since you two are building a life together. So I assume you will be going with? Or at least giving him a ride?

 

I am shaking I am so upset. He did not invite me to go. I didn't offer. Things are too tense right now.

[SomethingToSay]

He is trying to guilt you into feeling bad for him. Manipulation pure and simple. He wants things to continue just as they are....indedinitely. Hes pissed you have had an awakening if how ****ty a deal this is.

 

This is a very bad sign.

 

He is saying clearly he does not want to divorce bc of the consequences that comes with that

 

 

I wouldnt respond to it. Just leave and do your weeknd.of NC

[SomethingToSay]

In simplest terms he is saying that you are selfish for not keeping thimgs as they are. You are making him choose. Keeping Micah, his wife, and whoever Jim is from any pain is more important than giving you an authentic relationship.

 

He wants cake. Marriage and you on the side. He feels entitled to that

[PinkSunset]

In simplest terms he is saying that you are selfish for not keeping thimgs as they are. You are making him choose. Keeping Micah, his wife, and whoever Jim is from any pain is more important than giving you an authentic relationship.

 

He wants cake. Marriage and you on the side. He feels entitled to that

 

I am not responding I feel like I am going to be sick. He really is acting entitled and it blows my mind. He was happy with me being quiet and his little sitting duck it seems. Maybe I am reading it wrong but I am so mad!

 

 

I am off. I will update once I feel my head is more clear. Thank you everyone so much.

[SomethingToSay]

And the reason he wants so badly to know what chamged your mind about the situation is so he can they attack that to try and cgange your mind back.

 

If you tell him an intermet forum he will guilt you for listening to strangers over the internet over him. If you tell him a friend he will say they are just jealous or bitter. If u tell him a book or website he will say the writer doesnt know him and he is different.

 

Stay strong. He is showing you so much right now.

 

A man who really wanted out of the marriage woild be saying Thank you for the push, you are right you deserve much more than this, I am going to do this, and we will get thru it together and have our happy ending.

 

Instead he is throwing a tantrum

[PinkSunset]

Just wanted to post this as I couldn't just leave him hanging... I know. I am a fool in love

 

Jamie,

I am taking off for the weekend and I need you to refrain from contacting me. You are showing me a side of you I never thought existed. I believe maybe some things you have told me could possibly be lies even! If you wanted me, if you want the life we have discussed then you need to do what needs to be done and not argue with me about it. I love you, please just make the right decision and if it isn’t me then let me go.

 

Im not arguing with you about what needs to be done im sorry …. I have to do it the right way without her knowing or it will end bad for all of us and I cant do it to my son…. I just want to know what has changed in the last few days you haven’t been yourself. …You refused to see me last night and you know I look forward to it every Thursday and I thought you did to? I know the situation isn’t ideal and I will work on it I promise you…. Please tell me what it is …. Did you meet someone, is it your ex? My mind is racing ….i have not lied to you about anything I love you remember that and I am not letting you go

 

 

I believe him and I know I shouldn't. I am in pieces... have a good weekend everyone

[SomethingToSay]

Im.glad you believe him.bc he is telling you its not happenimg amytime soon. He says he has to do it "the right way without his wife knowing". He says "the situation isnt ideal and he will work on it"

 

In other words....you are in for a long, possibly indefinite wait.

 

Its all in what he ISNT saying. No reassurence of a divorce or separation. Only cheap reassurence he loves you.

 

Note he also says, despite the foregoing, that he is not going to respect your wishes and let you go. Nope. Too selfish.

 

Dont fall for his sweet loving words. It is so easy to SAY loving things. So so easy

 

Whats hard is actually DOING.

 

Now that anger/rage didnt work he is shifting into love bombing. Anything he can to keep his emotional crutch and Thursday night date going without having to actually change anything about his circumstances.

 

He does not want to divorce and you know this.

Edited May 6, 2016 by SomethingToSay

[SomethingToSay]

When you resume communication (bc I know you will) ask him what his specific plan is for "working on it". When will he tell his wife? Where will he move? How will he pay for the lawyer? What custody is he proposing? When will he tell his parents? Show me a receipt for the retainer..etc etc

 

Actions not just words. Otherwise....hes just strungimg this out as long as possible to satisfy HIS needs

[SomethingToSay]

Because he doesnt really want divorce. Not with all it comes with -- ie the stigma of being divorced, loss of time with son, financial loss, loss of his comfy home, loss of inlaws and friends. And the loss of his wife whom Im sure he still cares about if not loves in some ways.

 

The current situation is MUCH more appealing.

 

Thats why its so important OP gets fully out of this A and not go in deeper.

[ShatteredLady]

"I have to do it the right way without her knowing"

 

What?? How on earth is he expecting to get divorced & marry you "without her knowing"?

 

She's the MOTHER of his child! She's the woman that he married & made all of those vows to but he doesn't have the balls to tell her anything! How is that "the right way"?

 

Ok. Let's say that you are completely correct. She is a horrible woman that makes his life a living hell. She is his WIFE. if he doesn't have the guts to tell her anything how could his marriage ever get better?

 

Ok. Maybe he doesn't want his marriage to improve. He wants a divorce...but he can't because??? When is the "because" ever not going to be an issue?

 

I don't understand. To me I'm talking logic. If everything you think is true is actually true he's still not going to do anything about it because of the big 'because". His child isn't going to cease to exist. None of his excuses are going away.

 

Well done for finally having a fight!! Maybe he is the perfect man for you.

 

You threw Kevin away. Why? You REALLY need to think about this. REALLY!!

 

I think you're a mother, saving kind of lady. I think he is a victim. You're perfect!! Except what happens once he's "saved"? He's still a conflict avoiding victim. Who is going to be the bad guy in his new life? Who are you left with once he's been saved?

 

I think it's so sad that you lost Kevin. Your relationship worked in the real world. Without drama. Until you started cheating on him!

 

 

I say this because I met my H while he was going through a traumatic break-up. We could talk. REALLY talk. We had such a connection. He was so sensitive. He told me everything....just as freely as he told his mistress everything!

 

He's a terrible communicator! He avoids all conflict! The ONLY time he really talks is when he's slagging off one woman too another!

 

How honest is this MM going to be with YOU when there's no more big bad wife to talk about? You're seeing how he deals with conflict! You pour your heart out. Tell him how YOU feel & look at how he responds! "How can you be so mean?". He's always "poor me". He's always right & being punished by the woman. You are horrible for being so mean to him. This is how this man deals with criticism. Is this the future you really want?

 

Your ex seems like a far stronger man. He was being disrespected by his love so he walked away. He dealt with the pain in his life like a man. At least he's got a sob story to share with his next woman...but somehow I don't think that's how he works. Do you think he is sharing all of your secrets now to get laid?

[georgia girl]

"I have to do it the right way without her knowing"

 

What?? How on earth is he expecting to get divorced & marry you "without her knowing"?

 

She's the MOTHER of his child! She's the woman that he married & made all of those vows to but he doesn't have the balls to tell her anything! How is that "the right way"?

 

Ok. Let's say that you are completely correct. She is a horrible woman that makes his life a living hell. She is his WIFE. if he doesn't have the guts to tell her anything how could his marriage ever get better?

 

Ok. Maybe he doesn't want his marriage to improve. He wants a divorce...but he can't because??? When is the "because" ever not going to be an issue?

 

I don't understand. To me I'm talking logic. If everything you think is true is actually true he's still not going to do anything about it because of the big 'because". His child isn't going to cease to exist. None of his excuses are going away.

 

Well done for finally having a fight!! Maybe he is the perfect man for you.

 

You threw Kevin away. Why? You REALLY need to think about this. REALLY!!

 

I think you're a mother, saving kind of lady. I think he is a victim. You're perfect!! Except what happens once he's "saved"? He's still a conflict avoiding victim. Who is going to be the bad guy in his new life? Who are you left with once he's been saved?

 

I think it's so sad that you lost Kevin. Your relationship worked in the real world. Without drama. Until you started cheating on him!

 

 

I say this because I met my H while he was going through a traumatic break-up. We could talk. REALLY talk. We had such a connection. He was so sensitive. He told me everything....just as freely as he told his mistress everything!

 

He's a terrible communicator! He avoids all conflict! The ONLY time he really talks is when he's slagging off one woman too another!

 

How honest is this MM going to be with YOU when there's no more big bad wife to talk about? You're seeing how he deals with conflict! You pour your heart out. Tell him how YOU feel & look at how he responds! "How can you be so mean?". He's always "poor me". He's always right & being punished by the woman. You are horrible for being so mean to him. This is how this man deals with criticism. Is this the future you really want?

 

Your ex seems like a far stronger man. He was being disrespected by his love so he walked away. He dealt with the pain in his life like a man. At least he's got a sob story to share with his next woman...but somehow I don't think that's how he works. Do you think he is sharing all of your secrets now to get laid?

 

I have to agree. Kevin sounds like a wonderful man and you threw him away for a guy who manipulated you into being his sounding board and then his side piece. He is clearly not divorcing... And telling you about it in a way where he can defend himself later when you get mad but to keep you holding on now.

 

If you can, go find Kevin and figure out if there is still a chance for you and kick this Jamie out of your life forever.

[SomethingToSay]

Another observation -- Jamie was "elated" when you broke up with Kevin. Even tho he himself is married. He knew he couldnt offer you a real relationship at this time due to his reluctance to divorce. Yet he kept mum about that while you threw away your own relationship.

 

And the way he is so focused on who or what is causing your mind change. He KNOWS he has a strong grip on your mind and feels he is losing that control.

 

Frankly I think Jamie believes you are naive and gullible. He cant fathom that youd realize on your own what a bad situation this is. (Bc he has manipulated your feelings and mind so well that you are putty in his hands) You MUST have met someone feeding you this info.

 

Im more convinced then ever based on his reaction to all this there has certainly been a large dose of manipulation and taking advantage of by Jamie going on.

 

I believe his feelings for you are real, but he has known all along he isnt willingly going to initiate any divorce on his own. And had no problem conveniently keeping that info to himself, even while you threw away a good relationship

Edited May 7, 2016 by SomethingToSay

[anika99]

I have edited out our email signatures and copy and pasted but this is what's happening right now. I think this is our first real argument. I hope this is allowed:

 

 

I haven’t changed a thing and I have done everything I said I was and done everything you ever asked me to so what is the issue here? I do want to leave I have for years this is not new to you or me you know my circumstance you know where I am at in life and you know how she is to live with you somehow think I am staying because I want to? I stay because of micah are you asking me to disrupt my sons world? Ok add, ill blow up his world and blow up yours and mine and joes in the process and I wont worry about anyone else but you since you the only one here that apparently matters

 

I don't even know how to answer this, I am getting ready to leave for the day and take off and not look back until Monday.... I am raging mad.

 

 

And to answer your question, he said they don't sleep together and that they haven't even kissed in two years.

.

 

Wow! The above is a really bad sign! First of all he keep contradicting himself because he says he is planning on leaving and then in the next breath talks about how he's doing what YOU want. Secondly he is trying to guilt and manipulate you into backing off, by implying that you are being selfish and only care about yourself. Lastly, if he does really leave there will be much more of this resentment and blame directed at you. Every time he feels guilt or regret, or every time there is some difficulty, he is going to look at you with resentment and blame you for "making him" leave, for hurting his son, for "blowing up" everyone's world. This is what you will live with. A conflict avoiding man who blames others for his problems and decisions. This is perhaps why his wife doesn't feel much respect for him.

 

Shattered lady makes a really good point too. Compare your MM's behaviour with your exes behaviour. When Kevin saw that he was being disrespected by you, he simply left. I'm assuming he didn't start bad mouthing you to another woman that he was having an affair with. He didn't cheat his way out of the relationship. Even though he was being cheated on and disrespected he maintained his integrity and walked out the front door (as opposed to trying to sneak out the back door) with his pride in place. That is so much sexier and manlier than whatever it is your MM is doing.

[Mr.Darcy]

I have already read through some and these women sound so much like me. I am glad I haven't gone fully physical with him because I know it would be amazing and I just know it would make leaving him that much harder.

 

The threads here are heart breaking. I have yet to see one where the OW gets her man and they live happily. Do you know if any of those threads exist on here? Probably 1 in 500.

 

I feel my situation is not getting better. I'm lost and worried and really truly wish I would have seen this coming. Unfortunately I still have SO much hope. What's wrong with me?

 

Why would you be interested in hearing of success stories? Do you think that it would somehow give you a glimmer of hope that you are the 1 in 500?

 

Let me tell you a story. When I was growing up, my best bud's parents got a divorce. His dad had an affair with another woman and left his mom for his mistress. So point 1 for the OW. But here is the thing: his relationship deteriorated rather quickly. My buddy and his brother grew up constantly going back and forth between two houses. His dad ended marrying his mistress. My buddy and his brother NEVER respected her as a valid member of their family (there were 12 and 15 at the time). Their father and stepmom ended up divorcing within 3 years. My buddy's mother passed away from breast cancer after we graduated from highschool and never fully recovered from her heartbreak.

 

Today, my buddy is well adjusted. His dad has now been married to his 3rd wife for about 15 years. They are a wonderfully happy blended family with stepbrothers and stepsisters and many nieces and nephews between them. His dad has found happiness but it was not with his mistress. They could never recover from the very flawed foundation that their relationship was built on. My buddy finally was able to forgive his dad after many years of therapy but not before a lot of self-destructive behavior, which included drugs and alcohol.

 

So you see, your "love" is not just about you and MM. You do not live in a silo where your actions have no effect on anyone else. No matter what you feel about his wife, she is still a person, with real emotions and real dreams. She is still someone who on her wedding day gave her heart to the man that she loves with whom she envisioned she built dreams of spending the rest of her life with, have a family with, grow old and gray with. You have proven to be an empathetic person, obviously because you care MM's emotions, so are you able to feel any empathy whatsoever over the distraught that is surely to come to this woman because of your and Jamie's actions?

 

You stated before that you haven't been married. Picture your wedding day. What do you see? What do you feel? What are the sounds at your reception? What does your bouquet smell like? Do you hear the clinking of the glasses after the toasts? What do your best man and made of honor say about the love you share with your groom?

 

No imagine how you would feel when your groom, years later, sits you down and tells you that he has found another woman. He wants to leave you. He's been lying to you for a year and has been emotionally invested in another woman. How do you feel? Is this something you would want to bring upon another woman?

[elaine567]

Im not arguing with you about what needs to be done im sorry …. I have to do it the right way without her knowing or it will end bad for all of us and I cant do it to my son…. I just want to know what has changed in the last few days you haven’t been yourself. …You refused to see me last night and you know I look forward to it every Thursday and I thought you did to? I know the situation isn’t ideal and I will work on it I promise you…. Please tell me what it is …. Did you meet someone, is it your ex? My mind is racing ….i have not lied to you about anything I love you remember that and I am not letting you go

 

 

Here he is telling you that he wants to keep everything as it is.

His wife cannot find out as that would be devastating for his son AND him.

He loves his Thursday nights, so please don't rock the boat.

He doesn't want to let you go of course not, he would be back to his boring old life again.

This is NOT about you, this is all about him.

[stilltrying16]

It's taken a year for me to get to this point of being on this forum...and I think the only reason I hadn't slept with him was because I was with Kev.

 

We never really hung out in person a lot until Kevin moved out, and over the last two months it's become really intense. I think that's why I am here.... I need advice. I am afraid to go that next step because I know it's more wrong than what I am already involved in.

Jamie was ecstatic when Kevin and I broke up. He and I had been fighting for months over Jamie and I didn't see what I was doing as wrong because it wasn't physical.

 

Pink Sunset (I like that name), good for you to come here before things take a big turn in your affair. You seem strong to do that even when it's hard to hear what people are saying to you. You're getting great advice on the thread, IMO, and it will help you because you are willing to listen. Those are big points in your favor.

 

Something about the bolded doesn't sit right with me- Jamie's reaction to your breakup with Kevin. I think if Jamie genuinely wanted you to be happy in life (because that should be what we want for people we love), at least a little guilt might have accompanied his "ecsta[sy]." Jamie isn't committing to you, but yet he's cheering when you break up with a pretty decent-sounding guy. That's not what a stand up guy does!

 

Also wanted to say that the more I think about the relationship between Jamie and BW, the more worrisome it is. In your first few posts when you described how she treats Jamie, I actually wondered if he'd cheated on her before. It didn't seem that she was generally snippy or rude to Kevin and you too, so it was specific to Jamie, and therefore I wondered if there was a past crisis for which she blamed him. A previous affair on his part followed by (false) reconciliation would fit.

 

But then you posted that the tension in their marriage had to do with the loss of their baby in an accident. It happened when she was running errands for Jamie, and you've heard her call him lazy, so could it be that she blames him (irrationally) for her doing something for him that he should have been doing himself? But whatever the reason, she treats him the way she does because she blames him for the worst thing that has happened to them so far. I just wonder if he blames her too- openly or unconsciously- for the loss. There is some mutual blaming going on- in the way he talks of her and looks for an affair, and in the way she treats him in public.

 

Can Jamie seek IC - using the time he puts into going to the "gym"? Something as traumatic as this takes professional help. You want to step in and help him but can you really when the situation is this complicated? In my line of work, we sometimes encounter people in emotional distress, and we are advised to send them straight to the professional counseling that is available to us. We are told NOT to assume we can handle it. I truly think he needs the help of a professional- you can't rescue him and it won't help for him to self-medicate with a messy affair. I think you should encourage him to seek therapy if he isn't in it already. And then step back.

 

It's hard enough being involved with an MM in the ordinary course of things. But here the dynamic is so sad, complicated and painful, that honestly I think you're signing up for way too much and you are NOT in a position to give him the help he needs. I think you should do all you can to distance yourself. Ask yourself if you have a bit of a female KISA or Knight in Shining Armor complex (I know I do, so that's why I am asking- I recognize the signs). Jamie needs to sort it out in his marriage and leave first, without using you as a crutch. Maybe once he's out of it and has had time to heal emotionally he can try to find you.

 

I feel it's sad that she reached out to you in friendship. I assume you turned her down? I hope she too finds professional help and other friends to be with.

Edited May 7, 2016 by stilltrying16

[stilltrying16]

For some reason I managed to skip a page of posts and didn't read your full email exchange with him. You sounded really shaken yesterday. I'm so sorry and I hope you are better. He seemed manipulative and selfish all along, but even so, his emails to you truly crossed a line. They were shocking.

 

This man doesn't take kindly to being crossed. He seems to lack basic empathy. You did right to distance yourself in that last email/text you sent him. He'll probably send you a note in which he grovels to you and threatens you in the same breath. Kind of what he did when he talked of "blowing" up your world. What a pathetic selfish bully. He doesn't deserve you. NC all the way!

 

Sending you strength.

Edited May 7, 2016 by stilltrying16

[elaine567]

Im not arguing with you about what needs to be done im sorry ….

 

Apology on the surface, but shutting you down too. Do not speak to me about this.

 

I have to do it the right way without her knowing or it will end bad for all of us and I cant do it to my son….

I am not going to leave, it is just too hard, I have my son to consider.

 

I just want to know what has changed in the last few days you haven’t been yourself. …

Conciliatory attempt, as he just realised he probably let the cat out of the bag, so he needs to be nice but slightly condescending at the same time. YOU are not the same person, I am used to hearing from, you must be ill or crazy or something?????

 

You refused to see me last night

Accusatory

...you know I look forward to it every Thursday and I thought you did to?

Tempered the accusatory part with a bit of self pity and victimhood, but back to the accusations with "I thought you did too." (Are you lying to me?)

 

I know the situation isn’t ideal and I will work on it I promise you….

Conciliatory attempt again, so which one is it?

He cant leave his son or tell his wife, but he is going to be with you at the same time... we know what that means.

 

Please tell me what it is ….

Did you meet someone, is it your ex?

Accusatory and demanding, an attempt to shift the blame onto you and take the focus off him and his marriage.

My mind is racing ….i have not lied to you about anything

OK, so he IS staying for his son and his wife must never know.

 

I love you remember that

The only part that matters to you, I guess... he knows he overstepped the mark with the accusations, so an attempt to appease.

 

I am not letting you go

Not the same thing as I am leaving my wife and child for you.

 

And as for this...

I haven’t changed a thing and I have done everything I said I was and done everything you ever asked me to so what is the issue here? I do want to leave I have for years this is not new to you or me you know my circumstance you know where I am at in life and you know how she is to live with you somehow think I am staying because I want to? I stay because of micah are you asking me to disrupt my sons world? Ok add, ill blow up his world and blow up yours and mine and joes in the process and I wont worry about anyone else but you since you the only one here that apparently matters

Speechless.

[stilltrying16]

That was so great, Elaine! If it weren't so sad, I would be laughing- takes a close reading to see how pathetic he is.

 

And as for his desire to "do it (leave)the right way, without her knowing"- as Shattered Lady asked, was he planning to divorce BW without her catching on?

Edited May 7, 2016 by stilltrying16

[privategal]

Should this man and his childs name be used here?

[elaine567]

Should this man and his childs name be used here?

I am guessing/assuming it is not his real name nor that of his son.