Emotional Affair

[anika99]

Jamie told his wife he wants a divorce over the weekend. They had a massive fight and it included her throwing things and threatening him again.

 

I read on another thread that a MM recorded his abusive wife. I think this might be a good idea as his wife said she will call the police and say he is abusive toward her and their son. Does this kind of stuff hold up in court?

 

He and I had an argument again today as well. I asked him if he smoothed it over with his wife the next day after their fight, because I know he is the type to apologize for his behavior. Especially because he was inebriated at the time.

 

He says I am being cold and unreasonable toward his situation and thinks I should spend a few more days taking "some space". Now he won't answer me.

His lawyer appointment is tomorrow and at this point I have no idea if he is going, if he apologized to her or anything. I'm in the dark right now and it's my own fault for being such a B about everything.

 

Just like a true conflict avoider. Instead of giving you straight answers to your questions, he deflects, avoids and punishes. He sounds downright dreamy.

[SomethingToSay]

If this were a man truly wanting to divorce to be with you, he would be saying: " Well it was rough but I told her. Dont worry we are going to get through this together. Tomorrow I meet with the lawyer and will know much more then. Sorry you are having to wait on this and be involved in my mess"

 

All i see from him is textbook self-victimizing, manipulation, keeping you in the dark, and now punishment/stonewalling

[elaine567]

If this were a man truly wanting to divorce to be with you, he would be saying: " Well it was rough but I told her. Dont worry we are going to get through this together. Tomorrow I meet with the lawyer and will know much more then. Sorry you are having to wait on this and be involved in my mess"

 

All i see from him is textbook self-victimizing, manipulation, keeping you in the dark, and now punishment/stonewalling

 

I totally agree, there is no "It's you and me now kiddo, its going to be tough but WE can do it".

Instead, its all drama, blaming and now abuse, stonewalling is abuse.

If he deals with conflict by stonewalling, no wonder his wife is "crazy", Stonewalling will make anyone "crazy".

 

"Stonewalling will tend to elicit some common feelings in the stonewalled party—among them shame, anger, rage, infuriation, humiliation, desperation (to be heard), helplessness, and a sense of being driven crazy Stonewallers are destructive partners whom it’s best to avoid, and even leave, for your sanity’s and dignity’s sake."

[SomethingToSay]

Probably didnt even go dow like he said. Most likely he was in a pisses off mood bc of OPs recent awakening. Got drunk and acted liks and ass to his family. His wife was fed up and hurt bc he refuses to tell her whats going on. A huge fight ensued and he said in anger he wants a divorce.

 

Telling you he is being threatened and all that is just laying the foundation for why he wont ever be able to leave her

 

Its not your job to help him or offer him tactics like recording her.

 

Your job is to take care of yourself -- counseling, friends, volunteer, execercise, and start restructuring your life so it isnt centered around this MM. Bc his life is centered around his family.

[S2B]

IF he was truly intent on getting a divorce he would be saying "I'm going to an attorney and I'm finding out what I need to do to get this divorce final as soon as I can!"

 

But he's not saying that not is he acting as if that's his operating method.

 

And that tells you everything he's not willing to say.

[PinkSunset]

Well I wouldn't exactly read into this too much, many BS's on Dday throw things. I threw my WH's cell phone at him after I was done reading all his lovely texts between him and his MOW.

 

I became more and more irate at my WH because of his indecisiveness and lying, maybe that is the case with this BS.

 

BW doesn't know anything about us. This is not the first I've heard of her rages, either.

[PinkSunset]

If he has no plans of divorce then why lie about it? If he wants me to sit here and be his quiet little duck forever it's completely selfish.

 

I agree he is a conflict avoider. Even back when we first started this, I would ask if he's talked to his wife about his issue with this or that and he would say no, that he didn't want to argue with her.

 

He does drink on the weekends a fair amount. Mostly social from what I had gathered but I believe he was drinking alone last weekend. Obviously he's stressed out over the pressure I am putting on him... To do the RIGHT thing! If he doesn't want to split up his family he doesn't have to. I love him but I can move on.

 

I am still a little shocked at the way he has handled everything. I did not hear anything from him last night and still today, nothing. It worries me but I am really trying not to play his game of manipulation. Is that really what it is? I feel like this is not who he is, that he is just stressed out.

 

Do I wait for him to contact me or should I just leave him alone?

[PinkSunset]

I totally agree, there is no "It's you and me now kiddo, its going to be tough but WE can do it".

Instead, its all drama, blaming and now abuse, stonewalling is abuse.

If he deals with conflict by stonewalling, no wonder his wife is "crazy", Stonewalling will make anyone "crazy".

 

You're right. He isn't saying those things...

 

Probably didnt even go dow like he said. Most likely he was in a pisses off mood bc of OPs recent awakening. Got drunk and acted liks and ass to his family. His wife was fed up and hurt bc he refuses to tell her whats going on. A huge fight ensued and he said in anger he wants a divorce.

 

Telling you he is being threatened and all that is just laying the foundation for why he wont ever be able to leave her

 

Its not your job to help him or offer him tactics like recording her.

 

Your job is to take care of yourself -- counseling, friends, volunteer, execercise, and start restructuring your life so it isnt centered around this MM. Bc his life is centered around his family.

 

I start therapy on Thursday. I exersise every day and am joining a baseball team. I'm trying to keep myself together but inside I feel like dying.

 

I sort of feel like giving him the cold shoulder didn't work in my favor it back fired. I should have been more encouraging and helpful. I should have been by his side, instead I left him alone. I feel guilt over this and I know I shouldn't!

[AlwaysGrowing]

At the end of the day....it should not be you who is his sounding board or advisor. You have your own vested interest to guide conversations in a certain direction.

 

It is just human nature and extremely hard to remove self in these types of conversations. One is often not even aware of the subtle seeds that they are planting.

 

A trained professional has no bias, has no dog in the race and is not emotional vested.

[PinkSunset]

IF he was truly intent on getting a divorce he would be saying "I'm going to an attorney and I'm finding out what I need to do to get this divorce final as soon as I can!"

 

But he's not saying that not is he acting as if that's his operating method.

 

And that tells you everything he's not willing to say.

 

What do you think his operating method is then?

 

He is angry with me because I have been cold and distant, shutting him out. He isn't mad over the things I am asking him to do. At least, that's how he seemed to put it yesterday.

 

He also said I was being ridiculous because I accused him of turning me so far against his wife that I couldn't see who she was anymore. I was angry and upset with him still after a two day break, I don't know why.

 

Also I do believe the fight did happen. It always seems to happen when he is drinking because that's the only time he ever has any guts to say how he really feels to her.

[SomethingToSay]

It is very typical and for empaths such as yourself to feel "guilt" when they stand up for themselves, and enact boundaries. you do something completely reasonable (ie tell your MM you no longer want to be an OW) and then feel guilty and bad for making things "hard" for him.

 

 

You have so much focus on him, that you lose yourself bit by bit. You move that line in the sand bit by bit. Maybe I was too cold, maybe I shouldn't have left for the weekend, maybe I should have just kept things as is.

 

 

NO YOU SHOULDNT HAVE. You don't want to be an OW. You've said it many times on here. There is nothing unreasonable or mean about that.

 

 

Empaths tend to project their own integrity and empathy onto others. That's why it is SO SHOCKING to you to learn that perhaps Jamie has not been 100% upfront and has been taking advantage, and possibly manipulating and even lying.

 

 

And of course he is being selfish. He is angry and pissed because his little feast is coming to an end, and you are making him choose between either being married or having you as a girlfriend. Its all about him and his comfort level, and very little about you and the pain you are in.

 

 

The worst thing you can do right now is reach out to him. All that will do is show him that he can treat you this horribly and you STILL want him.

 

 

Please read up about consequences and boundaries in relationships, self-respect, and empaths vs the people who take advantage of them.

 

 

And PLEASE PLEASE stop focusing on the wife and her "rages". It makes no difference and has no bearing on anything, and you have no way of knowing the extent of truthfulness to ANYTHING he tells you that has supposedly gone on in their home.

[SomethingToSay]

What do you think his operating method is then?

 

 

Maintain things as they are as long as possible. Married with fun on the side. Or at best, make things so terrible at home that his wife initiates divorce b/c he is too cowardly to do it.

 

He is angry with me because I have been cold and distant, shutting him out. He isn't mad over the things I am asking him to do. At least, that's how he seemed to put it yesterday.

 

 

Manipulation. If he didn't mind what you were asking him to do, then he would do it, and you would have no reason to be cold and angry.

 

He also said I was being ridiculous because I accused him of turning me so far against his wife that I couldn't see who she was anymore. I was angry and upset with him still after a two day break, I don't know why.

 

 

Because you are starting to see through this situation and realize its not some great love story, its just a typical cheating MM affair that likely wont end well for you.

 

Also I do believe the fight did happen. It always seems to happen when he is drinking because that's the only time he ever has any guts to say how he really feels to her.

 

 

Im sure they did fight. B/c usually when MM is in an affair he treats his wife and family like ****. At any rate, so what? What does that have to do with anything in regards to YOU? All that matters here is: is he taking steps to divorce or not. The answer is no.

[elaine567]

And of course he is being selfish. He is angry and pissed because his little feast is coming to an end, and you are making him choose between either being married or having you as a girlfriend. Its all about him and his comfort level, and very little about you and the pain you are in.

Yes, his "dream" just got shattered into a million pieces, so near but yet so far, and it is not the dream you had envisioned but the dream of keeping his marriage intact, seeing his child and having a nice little compliant, besotted gf who he can see and have sex with every Thursday night.

 

The worst thing you can do right now is reach out to him. All that will do is show him that he can treat you this horribly and you STILL want him.

He is angry so is punishing you for spoiling his "dream" but he is also avoiding conflict here as he knows you are going to ask the question he doesn't want to answer, i.e. when are you going to see that lawyer?

I am guessing, if you stay quiet, he will keep radio silence up all through Tuesday and when he does deign to speak to you, he can then blame you as it is YOUR fault he didn't go to the lawyer appt...

[SomethingToSay]

Absolutely. Or if he does go to the lawyer, he will come out saying that its going to be so awful for him, he will lose everything, rarely see his son, have thousands in legal fees...and guilt you for "making" him endure all that.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity:

 

 

I should have been by his side, instead I left him alone

 

 

Isnt that a little hard when he's at home with his family all weekend? I mean, what would you have done gone and hid behind the curtain in his living room with his wife and son there? Or just stood by in your apartment with your phone to be at his beck and call any moment he could sneak in a text?

 

 

This is what I mean about your empathy for this man is so all-consuming that you become littler and littler until the point you are nothing

 

 

I think you are so hooked on this man, that you are willing to compromise your values, and come up with any excuse for his behavior, including blaming yourself for how hard it is on him, simply to spare yourself the pain of going cold turkey from him.

 

 

You will survive, I promise.

[PinkSunset]

Yes, his "dream" just got shattered into a million pieces, so near but yet so far, and it is not the dream you had envisioned but the dream of keeping his marriage intact, seeing his child and having a nice little compliant, besotted gf who he can see and have sex with every Thursday night.

 

 

He is angry so is punishing you for spoiling his "dream" but he is also avoiding conflict here as he knows you are going to ask the question he doesn't want to answer, i.e. when are you going to see that lawyer?

I am guessing, if you stay quiet, he will keep radio silence up all through Tuesday and when he does deign to speak to you, he can then blame you as it is YOUR fault he didn't go to the lawyer appt...

 

We have never had sex, but that was where it was headed before I started second guessing everything. I hope he kept his lawyer appointment. It is the only thing I am going on right now that will show me he can keep his word.

I do accept blame for some of this in part because I let it continue far longer than I should have. I am at fault for this affair too.

 

Absolutely. Or if he does go to the lawyer, he will come out saying that its going to be so awful for him, he will lose everything, rarely see his son, have thousands in legal fees...and guilt you for "making" him endure all that.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity:

 

 

 

 

 

Isnt that a little hard when he's at home with his family all weekend? I mean, what would you have done gone and hid behind the curtain in his living room with his wife and son there? Or just stood by in your apartment with your phone to be at his beck and call any moment he could sneak in a text?

 

 

This is what I mean about your empathy for this man is so all-consuming that you become littler and littler until the point you are nothing

 

 

I think you are so hooked on this man, that you are willing to compromise your values, and come up with any excuse for his behavior, including blaming yourself for how hard it is on him, simply to spare yourself the pain of going cold turkey from him.

 

 

You will survive, I promise.

 

I meant as in, I could be there for him to vent his thoughts and feelings. If he wanted to come over he could have. I know I couldn't go to his house, or spend time with him when I want to... That's where this all came about. I wanted him to help me move a dresser when I was sick and he wasn't able to because he was at his in-laws that day! It made me question what I was doing and if going physical would be the right thing... Then I end up on LS.

 

I am already in immense pain and trying to keep myself together. We haven't even officially broken up, I don't know how i'll handle that at this point.

The therapist I am seeing I have seen before. She is good.

[SomethingToSay]

I could be there for him to vent his thoughts and feelings. If he wanted to come over he could have. I know I couldn't go to his house, or spend time with him when I want to... That's where this all came about. I wanted him to help me move a dresser when I was sick and he wasn't able to because he was at his in-laws that day! It made me question what I was doing and if going physical would be the right thing... Then I end up on LS.

 

I am already in immense pain and trying to keep myself together. We haven't even officially broken up, I don't know how i'll handle that at this point.

 

 

I wish you could look outside yourself and see how awfully sad the above is. You must realize that while he has been the center of your world, his family is the center of his world.

 

 

Its such an awful position to put you in, and he KNEW this. He may have played dumb, or buried his head in the sand, or just avoided even thinking about it....but ultimately a person does not put a loved on in a situation where they are a sideline to their real life.

 

 

You say you haven't "officially broken up". I mean, technically, you aren't even "officially" together. He is married.

 

 

You deserve so much better than this, and I'm glad the dresser incident was a wake up call.

 

 

You say you are 34. Do you want children? That is another thing to think about. Why waste anymore time on this man when there could be a single man out there who can give you all you desire and more.

[elaine567]

We have never had sex.

 

I know, that is why I said so near and yet so far, you were prepared to have sex with him that night before you saw the light and woke up, his "dream" was within touching distance...

[AlwaysGrowing]

I do not see the OP having this great empathy or integrity that others have stated.

 

The OP is feeling the way she does because this is not going as she WANTS it to. These feelings have nothing to do with anyone else's feelings.

 

It is very telling how the poster has framed this crossroads. Do the RIGHT thing or let me move on. Meaning if the MM does not comply with moving forward with the affair and ending his marriage.....he is doing the wrong thing.

 

I do not believe that there are all these MM who are master manipulators....they are generally much like OW...they crossed boundaries without even realizing it. They put themselves in a place that does not feel like themselves. They do not recognize or feel like themselves. They are saying and doing things that are out of character. They (much like many OW) have lost their integrity and sense of self in the world. That is why so many affairs end badly. Not only is the relationship over but there is also the loss of self.

 

Married affair partners generally will have a short fuse at home and read way more into any type of disagreement at home. Much easier to point at the nearest target for making you feel on edge than question yourself.

 

To push someone to go to a lawyer before IC is wrong. It is telling the person what YOU expect from the outcome of IC. The seed has already been planted..."I expect you to move IC towards divorce".

 

OP, you systematically pushed your BBF out of the relationship. You did not exhibit any empathy or integrity in regards to his voiced feelings/thoughts about the inappropriate direction of the relationship with this MM. It can be quite intoxicating to have someone tell you what a wonderful person you are because you agree with everything they say about their wife. It is hard to resist when one does not have a stronger sense of self. One starts to need that validation to have a positive sense of self. It is not healthy. It puts all of ones eggs in someone else's basket.

 

My advice to you.....back away. Focus on you. It is your job to nurture, understand, learn, grow, build up and SAVE you. A healthy individual advises those that are lost/struggling to seek professional help because they understand only too well how easy it is to lose self to those that are closest to us.

[SomethingToSay]

I don't believe she has great integrity. And I agree her coming here and wanting to "stop" the Affair is not necessarily b/c she knows its wrong morally, but moreso b/c she wants tips for how to get the outcome she desires ie MM leaving his wife for her. (But doesn't want it called that, she wants it called "leaving his marriage b/c wife is awful, and Im just a friend supporting him through that)

 

 

The empathy I spoke of is pertaining solely to the MM. She is overly concerned about him being in pain, him having a sadz, him having to do anything hard. And a BIG part of this co-dependence/misplaced empathy stems directly from the narrative he gave her of being the innocent victim of his mean, horrendous, threatening, evil wife. What little integrity/values OP does posses in the situation was trumped by the Evil Wife narrative which provided justification for engaging in behavior that would be so painful and devastating to said wife (who also was a friend of OP). Ie -- its okay to do this to her b/c look at what she is doing to him.

 

 

He triangulated her plain and simple (see "my wife said you needed to lose a few pounds" et al), whether he knew he was doing it or what the word for it was. He also conveniently kept mum about the fact he would be very hesitant to voluntarily leave his wife. That is manipulation, whether intentionally or subconsciously, or while in deep denial or fog.

 

 

I think in MM mind, his ideal situation is to just drag this out as long as possible without having to actually DO anything hard, or make any hard decisions. Almost like he is hoping he will get lucky and wife will walk out on him, or die in a car wreck. Typical avoidant lacking in any inertia.

[ladydesigner]

I think in MM mind, his ideal situation is to just drag this out as long as possible without having to actually DO anything hard, or make any hard decisions. Almost like he is hoping he will get lucky and wife will walk out on him, or die in a car wreck. Typical avoidant lacking in any inertia.

 

Yep this ^ they don't want the hard work of ending their M or ending an A. It's interesting how a MP is trying to avoid conflict with the BS but in all actuality is creating more conflict by adding an AP to the mix, now they have a complication of 2 women making demands on him. A's create chaos.

[SoulCat]

I hope he kept his lawyer appointment. It is the only thing I am going on right now that will show me he can keep his word.

 

 

You do realise that one appointment with a lawyer doesn't mean anything, right?

Most legal firms offer a half hour free consultation, so all he has to do is go in, sit through that half hour and he'll have you on the hook again.

 

Because he kept his 'promise'....

 

 

He'll then spin you yarn after yarn of 'those damn lawyers, taking their sweet time drawing up/filing/returning paperwork'.

Meanwhile, you think it's all for realz, and you find yourself deeper and further into your affair (which by this point will most definitely have turned sexual, which makes it so much harder to break free from).

 

 

Look, some MM do leave their wives to be with their OW. I'm living proof of that.

My ex-husband left me for his OW, then went back on that decision, but wouldn't go NC with her.

 

I refused to do the 'pick me dance' and let her have him. I don't play second fiddle to nobody.

I packed my bags and left. He could have his divorce, and his OW.

 

 

It still took us years to finalise the divorce, and in the end I had to threaten him to take him to court for him to finally sign the papers.

 

And this was a man whose wife knew about the OW, there were no children involved and I was not contesting the divorce or make things difficult.

 

 

Look, you have been given really sound advice and feedback by fellow posters. Most of us who have been on LS for awhile have seen your exact situation many, many times.

 

Heed it or ignore it, it's up to you. But I'll guarantee you that if you don't, you'll be back here -or on some other forum- 3, 6, 9 months from now lamenting your situation.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I don't believe she has great integrity. And I agree her coming here and wanting to "stop" the Affair is not necessarily b/c she knows its wrong morally, but moreso b/c she wants tips for how to get the outcome she desires ie MM leaving his wife for her. (But doesn't want it called that, she wants it called "leaving his marriage b/c wife is awful, and Im just a friend supporting him through that)

 

 

The empathy I spoke of is pertaining solely to the MM. She is overly concerned about him being in pain, him having a sadz, him having to do anything hard. And a BIG part of this co-dependence/misplaced empathy stems directly from the narrative he gave her of being the innocent victim of his mean, horrendous, threatening, evil wife. What little integrity/values OP does posses in the situation was trumped by the Evil Wife narrative which provided justification for engaging in behavior that would be so painful and devastating to said wife (who also was a friend of OP). Ie -- its okay to do this to her b/c look at what she is doing to him.

 

 

He triangulated her plain and simple (see "my wife said you needed to lose a few pounds" et al), whether he knew he was doing it or what the word for it was. He also conveniently kept mum about the fact he would be very hesitant to voluntarily leave his wife. That is manipulation, whether intentionally or subconsciously, or while in deep denial or fog.

 

 

I think in MM mind, his ideal situation is to just drag this out as long as possible without having to actually DO anything hard, or make any hard decisions. Almost like he is hoping he will get lucky and wife will walk out on him, or die in a car wreck. Typical avoidant lacking in any inertia.

 

 

It was clearly stated by the OP in their opening post that she was the one who triangulated the relationship between herself, the MM and his wife.

 

OP was the one who told the MM that his wife was this and that...didn't he see it....we (more accurately "I") can't be friendly with you because of your wife. The MM initially defended his wife...acknowledging that his wife is going through a difficult time.

 

I get it.....we don't always see our role or our own true motivations in what we are doing or how we are effecting others around us. Often....we hide our motivation from ourselves because to be truly honest with ourselves would shed light on something that we ourselves would view negatively. The mind comes up with ploys/thought processes/rewrites narrative to maintain our "goodness". We disguise as "only trying to help", "I really care about them" ....when all along it was to feed our own sense of self.

 

Is discussing someone's marriage at length, guiding conversations about someone's spouse and offering up your opinions at how awful said spouse is....to an opposite sex co-worker at all appropriate? Of course not. So....what does one have to "tell" themselves to make it okay? And more important WHY did one engage that in the first place? What was the payoff...what was it feeding inside the OP?

[PinkSunset]

I wish you could look outside yourself and see how awfully sad the above is. You must realize that while he has been the center of your world, his family is the center of his world.

 

 

Its such an awful position to put you in, and he KNEW this. He may have played dumb, or buried his head in the sand, or just avoided even thinking about it....but ultimately a person does not put a loved on in a situation where they are a sideline to their real life.

 

 

You say you haven't "officially broken up". I mean, technically, you aren't even "officially" together. He is married.

 

 

You deserve so much better than this, and I'm glad the dresser incident was a wake up call.

 

 

 

You say you are 34. Do you want children? That is another thing to think about. Why waste anymore time on this man when there could be a single man out there who can give you all you desire and more.

 

We had discussed having children before yes. We both would love to have a child together when the time is right. I would want to give him a child more than anything but not while he is married to someone else.

 

 

I do not see the OP having this great empathy or integrity that others have stated.

 

The OP is feeling the way she does because this is not going as she WANTS it to. These feelings have nothing to do with anyone else's feelings.

 

It is very telling how the poster has framed this crossroads. Do the RIGHT thing or let me move on. Meaning if the MM does not comply with moving forward with the affair and ending his marriage.....he is doing the wrong thing.

 

I do not believe that there are all these MM who are master manipulators....they are generally much like OW...they crossed boundaries without even realizing it. They put themselves in a place that does not feel like themselves. They do not recognize or feel like themselves. They are saying and doing things that are out of character. They (much like many OW) have lost their integrity and sense of self in the world. That is why so many affairs end badly. Not only is the relationship over but there is also the loss of self.

 

Married affair partners generally will have a short fuse at home and read way more into any type of disagreement at home. Much easier to point at the nearest target for making you feel on edge than question yourself.

 

To push someone to go to a lawyer before IC is wrong. It is telling the person what YOU expect from the outcome of IC. The seed has already been planted..."I expect you to move IC towards divorce".

 

OP, you systematically pushed your BBF out of the relationship. You did not exhibit any empathy or integrity in regards to his voiced feelings/thoughts about the inappropriate direction of the relationship with this MM. It can be quite intoxicating to have someone tell you what a wonderful person you are because you agree with everything they say about their wife. It is hard to resist when one does not have a stronger sense of self. One starts to need that validation to have a positive sense of self. It is not healthy. It puts all of ones eggs in someone else's basket.

 

My advice to you.....back away. Focus on you. It is your job to nurture, understand, learn, grow, build up and SAVE you. A healthy individual advises those that are lost/struggling to seek professional help because they understand only too well how easy it is to lose self to those that are closest to us.

 

I may not have any empathy for his wife but I do for what I did to my ex. It was wrong and I will always be sorry for it.

I am trying my best to keep my integrity at this point. Yes, of course I want MM to leave his wife! It’s not right what we are doing. It’s also WRONG for him to stay with her any longer while this is going on behind her back. I don’t see how me wanting that is a bad thing? If he can’t do it, don’t lead me on anymore. It’s all I ask. Should I continue on with him instead? It may hurt like hell and I am worried I may not even be able to get out of bed… Heck, I may even go on a drunken bender for a week but I know I’ll come out of it. I have been through heartbreak before. You DO move on, and I will too.

He may not in fact leave, he may never leave, but this is why I am pushing it now… I am not going to wait another year. By then, who knows where I’ll be in this

 

 

It was clearly stated by the OP in their opening post that she was the one who triangulated the relationship between herself, the MM and his wife.

 

OP was the one who told the MM that his wife was this and that...didn't he see it....we (more accurately "I") can't be friendly with you because of your wife. The MM initially defended his wife...acknowledging that his wife is going through a difficult time.

 

I get it.....we don't always see our role or our own true motivations in what we are doing or how we are effecting others around us. Often....we hide our motivation from ourselves because to be truly honest with ourselves would shed light on something that we ourselves would view negatively. The mind comes up with ploys/thought processes/rewrites narrative to maintain our "goodness". We disguise as "only trying to help", "I really care about them" ....when all along it was to feed our own sense of self.

 

Is discussing someone's marriage at length, guiding conversations about someone's spouse and offering up your opinions at how awful said spouse is....to an opposite sex co-worker at all appropriate? Of course not. So....what does one have to "tell" themselves to make it okay? And more important WHY did one engage that in the first place? What was the payoff...what was it feeding inside the OP?

 

I never once felt that I was turning him against his wife. He was the one who came to us after we made distance from them due to the way she would treat him in front of us. It was awkward and uncomfortable. He explained their relationship and what they had gone through. Discussing their marriage was something my ex and I did with Jamie together. It was wrong. I know that now. I'm trying to change how this is going...

 

Besides the weight comment, she had never said a rude thing to me. She had reached out in friendship and at first I accepted but I couldn't continue to fake being her friend when I had feelings for Jamie.

 

I do have a KISA complex. I want to save everybody. I have been told by my therapist on previous occasions that NOT helping someone is also a way of helping them. Still trying to learn that and work on it... She will be surprised to hear the situation I'm in now.

[PinkSunset]

I don't believe she has great integrity. And I agree her coming here and wanting to "stop" the Affair is not necessarily b/c she knows its wrong morally, but moreso b/c she wants tips for how to get the outcome she desires ie MM leaving his wife for her. (But doesn't want it called that, she wants it called "leaving his marriage b/c wife is awful, and Im just a friend supporting him through that)

 

 

The empathy I spoke of is pertaining solely to the MM. She is overly concerned about him being in pain, him having a sadz, him having to do anything hard. And a BIG part of this co-dependence/misplaced empathy stems directly from the narrative he gave her of being the innocent victim of his mean, horrendous, threatening, evil wife. What little integrity/values OP does posses in the situation was trumped by the Evil Wife narrative which provided justification for engaging in behavior that would be so painful and devastating to said wife (who also was a friend of OP). Ie -- its okay to do this to her b/c look at what she is doing to him.

 

 

He triangulated her plain and simple (see "my wife said you needed to lose a few pounds" et al), whether he knew he was doing it or what the word for it was. He also conveniently kept mum about the fact he would be very hesitant to voluntarily leave his wife. That is manipulation, whether intentionally or subconsciously, or while in deep denial or fog.

 

 

I think in MM mind, his ideal situation is to just drag this out as long as possible without having to actually DO anything hard, or make any hard decisions. Almost like he is hoping he will get lucky and wife will walk out on him, or die in a car wreck. Typical avoidant lacking in any inertia.

 

I do want it to be because he is unhappy, that his wife is a ****ty person to live with who can't let go of the past and move on in a healthy way! I am sorry she blames her husband for everything wrong in her life. I am sorry he felt the need to vent elsewhere after 4 years of trying to work it out. I am sorry for my role in this situation. In a perfect world, he would have been divorced when I met him.

 

You do realise that one appointment with a lawyer doesn't mean anything, right?

Most legal firms offer a half hour free consultation, so all he has to do is go in, sit through that half hour and he'll have you on the hook again.

 

Because he kept his 'promise'....

 

 

He'll then spin you yarn after yarn of 'those damn lawyers, taking their sweet time drawing up/filing/returning paperwork'.

Meanwhile, you think it's all for realz, and you find yourself deeper and further into your affair (which by this point will most definitely have turned sexual, which makes it so much harder to break free from).

 

 

Look, some MM do leave their wives to be with their OW. I'm living proof of that.

My ex-husband left me for his OW, then went back on that decision, but wouldn't go NC with her.

 

I refused to do the 'pick me dance' and let her have him. I don't play second fiddle to nobody.

I packed my bags and left. He could have his divorce, and his OW.

 

 

It still took us years to finalise the divorce, and in the end I had to threaten him to take him to court for him to finally sign the papers.

 

And this was a man whose wife knew about the OW, there were no children involved and I was not contesting the divorce or make things difficult.

 

 

Look, you have been given really sound advice and feedback by fellow posters. Most of us who have been on LS for awhile have seen your exact situation many, many times.

 

Heed it or ignore it, it's up to you. But I'll guarantee you that if you don't, you'll be back here -or on some other forum- 3, 6, 9 months from now lamenting your situation.

 

I am going to stick to NC until he contacts me. I am not just going to jump back in with two feet because he saw a lawyer. I know it's a long road ahead... I need proof of him leaving.

[PinkSunset]

Also want to say that I am very thankful for everyone helping me in my situation. If it wasn't for you, I probably would have let this turn into a PA and not held my ground as much.

I know you all have seen my story a million times. I know we are not unique... I am doing my best to take all your advice and use it.