Emotional Affair

[kodi32]

Hi,

 

I am not looking for anyone to pass harsh judgement on me because I already know what I am involved with isn't morally right but I can't help it.

 

I met a man last year through work (Jamie) who at first I just saw as a client. We had a lot of business relations and once everything was over and closed we still continued to stay in contact. It was always platonic at this point. Jamie introduced me to his wife and I had brought my boyfriend at the time (Kevin) along as well. We were soon hanging out as couples, having BBQ's and being friends.

 

It wasn't long until I noticed how terrible his wife treated him. She constantly talked down to him and made him feel (and look) stupid. She is condescending and mean if everything is not her way. At first I tried to ignore it, but even Kevin started making comments to me after we'd leave. It started to really bother me so we hung out with them less and less. She was terribly mean. I couldn't understand why he was with her.

 

Eventually Jamie just came out and asked me why Kev and I always seemed to be busy and I was honest. I told him how I (we) felt. He said she wasn't always that way and she had been through a lot.

This is where we started to become close. He started confiding in me about everything in his life. At first I would tell Kev, but after a couple months he started to get annoyed that I was Jamie's ear. It caused a lot of tension between us but yet I couldn't just let Jamie go...

 

It's now been a year of this, Jamie and I are in an emotional affair behind his wife's back and Kevin and I broke up two months ago. Kevin knew there was something going on but he could never prove it.

Jamie and I are on the verge of being physical. His wife is a hateful, tortuous person. I know this first hand I have seen it.

He does want to leave his wife but he is afraid. I love him and I can't just walk away knowing what he lives with each day....

 

Tell him to man and get with you.

 

It seems you two are infinitely more compatible than him and his wife. People waste too much time staying where it is safe these days.

 

Never settle for second best if i were you i would go for it.

[S2B]

If he has no plans of divorce then why lie about it? If he wants me to sit here and be his quiet little duck forever it's completely selfish.

 

I agree he is a conflict avoider. Even back when we first started this, I would ask if he's talked to his wife about his issue with this or that and he would say no, that he didn't want to argue with her.

 

He does drink on the weekends a fair amount. Mostly social from what I had gathered but I believe he was drinking alone last weekend. Obviously he's stressed out over the pressure I am putting on him... To do the RIGHT thing! If he doesn't want to split up his family he doesn't have to. I love him but I can move on.

 

I am still a little shocked at the way he has handled everything. I did not hear anything from him last night and still today, nothing. It worries me but I am really trying not to play his game of manipulation. Is that really what it is? I feel like this is not who he is, that he is just stressed out.

 

Do I wait for him to contact me or should I just leave him alone?

 

Honey, he's not stressed out, per se' - he's creating distance from you because you now have an expectation...that he gets divorced.

 

And he's mad. He's mad that you are trying to change his arrangement!

 

He wants both...he's selfish.

 

And besides, it's easier to blame you than to blame himself. That's really crappy of him as well as so many other things he is doing to her and to you.

 

I don't see him as a gem the way you do. He doesn't tell his wife how he feels when he should. He drinks too much often enough and then he seeks sympathy outside his marriage when he should be dealing with things directly with his wife (even IF that means getting divorced).

 

He a master at manipulation - and now you're left feeling insecure in rescuing him. He's not a prize.

 

Go out and date available men - I hope you will.

 

You deserve better than what he's offering.

[SomethingToSay]

I need proof of him leaving

 

 

What sort of proof would this entail?

 

 

If he can’t do it, don’t lead me on anymore.

 

 

Hasn't he already told you in his actions and words, that he cant leave her?

 

 

I'm afraid at this point you are refusing to accept his answer. You are wanting to believe you can still change his mind, or that he will change his mind. Or that he is in "limbo". Or anything else other than accepting that he is not willingly leaving.

 

 

And you are still so focused on his wife being "Horrid" and all the things Jamie has told you about their marriage as being fact. you MUST accept that the situation at home is most likely different than you have been led to believe. Some OW are shocked to find out their MM has been having sex with their wife the whole time. I mean, do you honestly believe that for 4 years he has tried to work on the marriage and improve things and been a loving husband, and she has done NOTHING ?? That she just gets off on being a prison warden and making his life miserable? Seriously.

 

 

So your current plan is: "I wont contact him until he contacts me"? So then he contacts you and what? Assuming he doesnt hand you a filed divorce complaint tomorrow, or a signed retainer agreement, what do you do then? Hes gonna re-emerge and its going to be something like "I miss you so much" or "I hate that this is tearing us apart" or "It is killing me not to be with you".

 

 

As of now, you are merely in NC of HIS doing, not your OWN doing.

[Joie]

Input from a BS here. Feel free to ignore.

 

In reading your post you come across as someone who wants to be a nice person. You probably were a nice person in the past. You probably will be a nice person in the future. However, what you are doing right now is not nice.

 

In this situation you want the BS to be the s***** and horrid person. The truth of the matter is that you and the MM are the bad guys in this drama.

 

You are the one who went after her husband, you are the one who lied to your boyfriend and deleted texts. You are planning to have children with this woman's husband! Nothing about that is altruistic.These are the action of a person who is acting selfish. I am guessing you are normally not a selfish person. Therefore in order to rationalize your behavior you see yourself saving the MM. He does not need to be saved by you. You and he are the ones causing the problems not solving them.

 

I hope you see that what you are doing is wrong and get back to the person it sounds like you want to be. Best of luck to you.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Joie

[S2B]

My hope for you is that YOU take charge of your life, your happiness and your future!

 

Don't allow your future to wait in his hands. He HAS decided! He's not speaking to you...guess why?

 

You can take your power and self respect back and never speak to him again by blocking him!

 

Because IF you don't - he will just come around after a long bit of silently punishing you - expecting that you will be happy with his crumbs enough to start again.

 

It's his way of teaching you to expect less from him...and to be happy about expecting less.

 

It's mean and cruel of him = but that's who he is.

[stilltrying16]

BW doesn't know anything about us. This is not the first I've heard of her rages, either.

 

PS, I wrote up two long posts, and hit some weird key, and each got poofed. aaaargh.

 

I have to go, but will check in later. In the meantime, I just wanted to ask you something: from whom have you heard of her rages? There's one public encounter you witnessed yourself, but who else is the source of your info? For instance, you also posted that you'd gathered he drinks on weekends, but it's social. Basically, how do you know what you know?

 

I was in the ballpark with the KISA thing....interesting, because I have it myself, and the result in my case is that I suspend normal caution, disbelief etc when I think I'm with someone in need of my rescue. Could anything of the kind be going on with you? Are you overly trusting

when someone appeals to your protective instincts?

 

You mentioned you'd be seeing your therapist on Thursday- I think that's perfect timing.

 

Anyway, I'll check in again later; in the meantime, I'm sending you hugs and strength.

[PinkSunset]

What sort of proof would this entail?

 

 

 

 

 

Hasn't he already told you in his actions and words, that he cant leave her?

 

 

I'm afraid at this point you are refusing to accept his answer. You are wanting to believe you can still change his mind, or that he will change his mind. Or that he is in "limbo". Or anything else other than accepting that he is not willingly leaving.

 

 

And you are still so focused on his wife being "Horrid" and all the things Jamie has told you about their marriage as being fact. you MUST accept that the situation at home is most likely different than you have been led to believe. Some OW are shocked to find out their MM has been having sex with their wife the whole time. I mean, do you honestly believe that for 4 years he has tried to work on the marriage and improve things and been a loving husband, and she has done NOTHING ?? That she just gets off on being a prison warden and making his life miserable? Seriously.

 

 

So your current plan is: "I wont contact him until he contacts me"? So then he contacts you and what? Assuming he doesnt hand you a filed divorce complaint tomorrow, or a signed retainer agreement, what do you do then? Hes gonna re-emerge and its going to be something like "I miss you so much" or "I hate that this is tearing us apart" or "It is killing me not to be with you".

 

 

As of now, you are merely in NC of HIS doing, not your OWN doing.

 

You are right in that the NC is on his doing right now. It was of my doing over the weekend.

The proof I am looking for is that he did in fact go to the lawyers, he did get advice and his next step is to file for separation or at least move out of his house. I know this is asking a lot... I know it is.

 

Input from a BS here. Feel free to ignore.

 

In reading your post you come across as someone who wants to be a nice person. You probably were a nice person in the past. You probably will be a nice person in the future. However, what you are doing right now is not nice.

 

In this situation you want the BS to be the s***** and horrid person. The truth of the matter is that you and the MM are the bad guys in this drama.

 

You are the one who went after her husband, you are the one who lied to your boyfriend and deleted texts. You are planning to have children with this woman's husband! Nothing about that is altruistic.These are the action of a person who is acting selfish. I am guessing you are normally not a selfish person. Therefore in order to rationalize your behavior you see yourself saving the MM. He does not need to be saved by you. You and he are the ones causing the problems not solving them.

 

I hope you see that what you are doing is wrong and get back to the person it sounds like you want to be. Best of luck to you.

 

I am very sorry for everything you have gone through. I am not here to continually defend myself, I am here so I can get advice on how to move forward... Whether that be with or without MM.

I did not intend for it to even go this far, I certainly did not go after him or set out to. He was a friend. I am not saying that NOW I am innocent, I know what's going on isn't fair. Not to me, not to MM and certainly not to his wife.

 

Maybe I am rationalizing it by thinking I am saving him from his big bad wife. I realize she has her own reasons for treating him in such a manner but I guess for me as a person, I would never talk down to or treat my spouse that way.

 

I have not slept with this man. The children plannig and all of that is just fantasy at this point. It was just discussion.

 

Thank you for wishing me well nonetheless.

 

 

My hope for you is that YOU take charge of your life, your happiness and your future!

 

Don't allow your future to wait in his hands. He HAS decided! He's not speaking to you...guess why?

 

You can take your power and self respect back and never speak to him again by blocking him!

 

Because IF you don't - he will just come around after a long bit of silently punishing you - expecting that you will be happy with his crumbs enough to start again.

 

It's his way of teaching you to expect less from him...and to be happy about expecting less.

 

It's mean and cruel of him = but that's who he is.

 

I guess I am still in so much confusion about what his intentions are. We are so emotionally connected that I don't feel the things he's said are because he doesn't want a divorce. I believe he does... He is just worried of the repercussions and he is going about everything the wrong way. The things he has said and the way he's treated me are not the way to handle it.

I maybe could have been more respectful in the way I spoke to him yesterday, but in the end he should know I love him and I am doing it because I want a future with him.

 

I am not being unreasonable. You have all said it to me as well... Looking out for my well being is not wrong. I am sticking to that.

[BuddyX]

Wait, you're trying to save a grown MM from his wife? Wow, I would loose all respect for him.

[S2B]

Don't start second guessing yourself. Expecting HIM to keep his word is not an unreasonable expectation!

 

Future faking is simply not enough.

[PinkSunset]

PS, I wrote up two long posts, and hit some weird key, and each got poofed. aaaargh.

 

I have to go, but will check in later. In the meantime, I just wanted to ask you something: from whom have you heard of her rages? There's one public encounter you witnessed yourself, but who else is the source of your info? For instance, you also posted that you'd gathered he drinks on weekends, but it's social. Basically, how do you know what you know?

 

I was in the ballpark with the KISA thing....interesting, because I have it myself, and the result in my case is that I suspend normal caution, disbelief etc when I think I'm with someone in need of my rescue. Could anything of the kind be going on with you? Are you overly trusting

when someone appeals to your protective instincts?

 

You mentioned you'd be seeing your therapist on Thursday- I think that's perfect timing.

 

Anyway, I'll check in again later; in the meantime, I'm sending you hugs and strength.

 

Thank you so much!

 

I know just from what he's told me, and I know everyone here says that I can't just go by what he is saying... I guess that is true, but I have no other way to know other than what he says.

I am trying to pay more attention to his actions more so than his words but with being NC it's hard to know what he's done. It's also been over a week since I've seen him and that is also hard

[PinkSunset]

Wait, you're trying to save a grown MM from his wife? Wow, I would loose all respect for him.

 

I suppose it sounds that way. I was trying to help him to be happier in his life and now we're in love. It's gotten complicated...

[PinkSunset]

 

I was in the ballpark with the KISA thing....interesting, because I have it myself, and the result in my case is that I suspend normal caution, disbelief etc when I think I'm with someone in need of my rescue. Could anything of the kind be going on with you? Are you overly trusting

when someone appeals to your protective instincts?

 

 

 

Wanted to add that yes, I am definitely over trusting. It has gotten me into bad places in the past. It was one of the things my therapist and I tried to work on a few years ago.

[SomethingToSay]

You say you are trying to watch his actions but him going NC makes it difficult to know what he has done.

 

Him going NC is the action. The one that signals where this man is at.

 

You must assume and proceed as if he is still married and continuing to be married, until he shows you otherwise.

 

Going NC with you is very telling.

[S2B]

I think IF he had seen the lawyer today he certainly would want to tell you that. I would also think IF he saw the attorney and planned to fill out paperwork to get the divorce started by filing he would say so.

 

Therefore...I'm thinking he's taken no action.

 

And also, IF he had told his wife he wanted a divorce over the weekend - and they decided it's not going to work - then wouldn't he have started a plan to move out?

 

Things don't add up. He's just hoping you settle for so little and continue - or believe him and his lies - or that you just lower your expectations and think that continuing to be his OW is all ok now...

 

I hope you don't.

[SomethingToSay]

^ this

 

You have to realize, its not that he doesmt want a divorce per se. Its that he doesnt want all the hardship and stuff that comes along with it (loss of money, less time with child, stigma, losing friends/inlaws, hurting wife, etc etc

 

Its mich easier for him to perpetuate this "I love you and wanna leave but just cant" narrative. Or keep you hanging on with the "hopefully circumstances will change soon and then I can leave"....He wants to avoid anything hard or negative. All the while you are comveniently meeting his needs for romance and companionship etc etc. Its much easier to just keep lieing with you as OW than face divorce

 

So the NC he is doing is basically punishment/manipulation for deigning to push him out of this comfort zone. Or he is just too cowardly to face you and tell you he hasnt dont anything

[stilltrying16]

Wanted to add that yes, I am definitely over trusting. It has gotten me into bad places in the past. It was one of the things my therapist and I tried to work on a few years ago.

 

So knowing that, what do you think your next step should be?

 

The whole thing could be made up. And if it's not, it is messy beyond belief. Such an unhealthy dynamic and it's one thing piling on another: a miscarriage; drinking; a BW who allegedly rages; an MM who alternates between conflict avoidance and bullying, and who blameshifts on his W, & on you? It's mind-boggling that MM says he's staying for his 7 year old son. What must this poor little boy be exposed to if the set up is as toic as it seems? It's really unconvincing for Jamie to say he's stayed for the child.

 

Thank you so much!

 

I know just from what he's told me, and I know everyone here says that I can't just go by what he is saying... I guess that is true, but I have no other way to know other than what he says.

I am trying to pay more attention to his actions more so than his words but with being NC it's hard to know what he's done. It's also been over a week since I've seen him and that is also hard

 

There is no other way- you're right. So that means you don't know at all what's going on and you can't be sure any of it is real.

 

Most affairs are built on secrets and one partner usually ends up having to rely- to a point-on the word of the other. But usually there is SOME external verification. Here there is none- at all. Not even the possibility of it, unless you hire a PI. For instance, there isn't a mutual circle of friends, or even gossip, against which you could measure Jamie's version of things. All of it raises so many doubts. I could be wrong, but that's what Kevin seemed to sense when tried to put a stop to Jamie's complaints about her- and told him to make a bigger effort with his wife.

 

It must be really painful, and very hard to do the NC. I am so sorry. But the NC will work- it's the only thing that will. Be sure NOT to wrap it up in guilt. Do you read other threads here from OW and OM working on NC? People struggled honestly but they made it, and in every instance something good was waiting for them on the other side.

Please steer clear, PinkSunset. It's very painful but it will get better. Also please be wary of his blame-shifting. With your inclination to feel guilty about everything and his talent at guilt-tripping others, you could be trapped so easily. Practice some of the KISA stuff on yourself. You and the little boy and very likely BW seem to me to be more in need of it than Jamie!

 

Paying attention to his actions means waiting till he produces those divorce papers. That may be a long wait, but there is no alternative. You have such great advice on this thread. I really hope it continues to help. Rooting for you!

[AlwaysGrowing]

So much focus on this MM and so little on yourself.

 

From how you have described your XBF, he seemed to have the core qualities that one would look for in a mate. Openly discussing any issues that he sees or feels. You know...an adult.

 

Instead you disregarded his opinions and continued with an inappropriate relationship, one that has at its core....a bonding built on the tearing down of his wife.

 

There are a few OW that to this day.....years out from being in the affair and now married to the MM still post on forums lamenting about how awful the XBW wife is (and generally all BW). The initial bond was over mutual dislike of the XBW and the relationship to this day is still fixated on that premise. It's like the FOW now wife still needs a rival to compare themselves to. They got their validation from being chosen over the wife and still need to feed that validation. And it is so very easy to continue to take the inventory of the XBW to make themselves feel better than. (Note I did not say all).

 

IMHO....you have put yourself on a toxic thought process path. You left a healthy relationship when confronted with an issue, that most would have agreed with your XBF on. Your XBF did not cause tension between you both....he stated what he was uncomfortable with, instead of addressing the issue....you decided to hide it. Why? What does being the rescuer feed? Do you need to be "in charge"? Do you need to be the one that unilaterally decides what is best? If so...why? Where is this why rooted?

 

If you have a history of seeking out rescuer type relationships....would it not be wise to address this issue so that you don't lead yourself astray? It isn't enough to just acknowledge the issue...you have to figure out why then repair it.

[SomethingToSay]

Always post reminded me of something that has stuck out and bugged me from your earlier posts. You said when you saw BW alone socially she comolained Jamie didnt help out at home. You then said: "She is a liar."

 

I guess what Im curious about is how you are so quick to pointblank call this woman a liar when you have no firsthand knowledge of what happens in their home. Yet at the same time you are struggling so hard to realize everything Jamie has said may not be truthful.

 

I agree the villification of his BW as a major driving theme in this relationship is quite unhealthy.

[Onlywhenitrains]

Pink Sunset - I'm rooting for you to take all the great advice you've been getting on this board. I truly hope you do.

 

His situation in his marriage is his problem, that is if he considers it to be a problem. And, only him and his wife can sort it out. YOU CAN NOT.

 

Confusion you feel and unconfirmed info on their situation that you have right is just a vicious circle that will have utterly destructive consequence for you. Unless you remove yourself from it. You can not solve their problems. They should do that.

 

If he really want the life with you, he will be transparent about his desires to be with you, and he will be completely transparent about steps he is taking to achieve that and timeline it takes to get there. HIS BEHAVIOUR DEMONSTRATES NONE OF THAT. All other members who commented on your thread have been pointing out that so far.

 

As someone who's been in a A with MM for a year and is going through NC withdrawal and all that comes with that - I really, really want to help you choose the right path, which is focusing on yourself and your life. As everyone here wants to help you do that. But, we can't do that for you. You have to do that!

 

You don't want relationship with him in a state he is in right now. You want to build it on a solid grounds that will allow the relationship between Jamie and you to grow and last. He is not capable of that right now. And, I'm not convinced you are either.

 

Just my 2 cents. I really wish you all the best!

[ShatteredLady]

This just occurred to me...I haven't even sense checked it yet...

 

You were in a long term relationship, long enough that he at the big decisions stage. Kevin called you out. He criticized you, honestly he was correct, completely....He tried to save you.

 

(& by the way I'd bet money he's cried many tears over you! Real, genuine tears over YOU, not just for himself!)

 

You opened this thread with the choice....Do I whatever with Jamie OR do I try to get Kevin back?

 

You can't get Kevin back! He tried to stop this, help BOTH of you every step. Save you from yourself because that's what you do when you love someone. Help Jamie because YOU cared about him. He did pretty much everything except sacrifice his dignity & bare witness to your affair!

 

Kevin left you because YOU left him!

 

If you don't end-up with Jamie it's bloody tragic isn't it?

 

You threw away a man who loved you. You say you had a great relationship before your affair. Your ONLY criticism of Kevin is "He's working class. He doesn't cry, paralyzed by inaction to get other women to save him". Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Why were you talking about trying to get Kevin back before members told you 'No chance'?

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well. If the story had been just the same, except no Kevin, you were single from the start...

 

....You don't seem like the kind of person to poach another woman's husband!

 

You didn't have some amazing friendship or sexual chemistry before you started consoling him about his wife & Kevin started warning you to pull back...(& Jamie to man-up & sort his marriage.)

 

I don't know! .....If nothing happens between you & MM. If you stop advising & 'helping' him? If he takes Kevin's advise & works on his marriage....?????

 

Wasn't Kevin right? Weren't you very wrong AND very guilty of something morally bad? Weren't you played by a very sad man with a very sad story? Didn't you throw away a man you loved to be a sob-stories blankie?

[ShatteredLady]

I'm a "people pleaser" to a fault. I'm Mummy! My joy & meaning in life is completely dependent on the happiness of the people I love. I don't love many people but those I do I give my all.

[onemanband]

after reading all of this go back and read the the first post

[elaine567]

I think faced with two interested men, Pink Sunset chose to "upgrade".

 

Jamie with his moneyed wife, his business connections and his "charm" and the fact he needed the OP, was a better bet, than the more plodding, down to earth, independent Kevin.

Jamie's marriage was "obviously" going down the toilet, so he would soon be free anyway. His harridan of a wife would soon be jettisoned to leave Jamie available, add a bit of care and attention and he would be as good as new.

 

Given the choice of the boring but reliable family saloon, or the sports car that has seen better days, the chance to renovate and repair, to make something great again, was too good to miss.

 

I am not however sure if Jamie sees Pink Sunset as a "upgrade" in quite the same way, and that is where her plan may go awry.

He is not really acting like a man happy to be "saved", at the moment.

[Cloudcuckoo]

I can't get past the lack of empathy for a woman who has suffered the terrible loss of a child, followed by fantasies of bearing children with that same woman's husband...

 

What a crushing discovery that would be.

 

It makes me queezy to say the least.

 

You simply don't ever get over losing a child, that isn't how it's supposed to be.

 

My daughter and her husband's first daughter was born sleeping just weeks before she should have been born awake, pink and angry at having her bubble popped.

 

Two healthy children later, she has just discovered her partner through all that devastating grief and loss has been having an affair.

 

Be careful what you wish for Pinksunset, you might just get it....

[stilltrying16]

PinkSunset, I think what might have given Jamie the edge over Kevin is your conviction that Jamie needed rescuing and Kevin didn't. And you needed someone to need you. Just a thought...again, it could be just projection on my part!

 

If that's the case, though, then your therapist really will be able to help. It could show you why Jamie has this hold on your imagination. I honestly don't see that Jamie has anything to recommend him other than the fact that you think he needs you. Of course I'm going only on the basis of what I've read in your thread and could be way off. But if I'm not, then NC won't remain this hard and you will come out of the whole experience heartwhole and stronger. That's what I wish for you. Sending you strength and hugs, as always.