As Clear as Mud

[darkrose]

I'm having problems understanding my next move concerning a relationship situation I have never encountered. I met a lady quite by accident through a dating site, I emailed her as she was leaving the site because she was still having issues resolving the end of a relationship. Her first reaction was based on mistaken identity, because the email provided was only used by her and her former lover. Once she realized it wasn't him, she apologized and explained what had happened and asserted she did not want to get involved with anyone.

I knew she only needed a friend and so I provided her my ear and advice, and a friendship developed. After a couple of months we both admitted our feelings had changed, but I kept telling her that I would be her friend first and foremost, expecting nothing else. The feelings grew deeper and we met, it did not go well because she was saying that she really thought it was this secret lover behind the emails and phone calls. That this was all him testing her. During the visit she poured her heart out about her past, and she relaxed a little, started getting more personal with me and we were planning on meeting up again. Shortly after I returned home, I got this email stating that she mixed up her feelings between me and the guy who treated her so badly and that she still loved him. That all she wanted was to be friends but she couldn't talk to me because it would lead me on? I told her that was fine, and that would remain friends and would expect nothing more, but I really wanted to stay in contact because I genuinely care for her not just for sex, unlike the other guy. Since then she has sent me several emails, stating she was sorry for not chatting, but she knew how I feel about her and that all we could be is friends. Again I have told her, that is all I want and expect but not talking to me makes no sense.

She shared many things with me that she never shared with another because of shame. And looked to me not to judge her which I did not. It almost seems like she feels guilty for having feelings for me while still having love for a man who doesn't want her. She pushes people away when she cares, and she has pushed me away several times, bringing me back in and then pushing me away again. Yes I love her, so I want the best for her. Everyone else gave up on her, I don't want to be another one that does. They have used her and never given her the consideration she deserves. Not sure how to handle this.

[deadparrot]

Move on. She's not emotionally available.

[darkrose]

Thank you deadparrot for your reply, but considering all that she shared with me, and the fact that she wants the friendship. I'm not quite sure what she wants from me. She is a friend first and foremost, and I've seen what happens after she gets into this mindset.

I'm concerned for her.

[deadparrot]

I think you can reach out and say that you're there to talk if/when she needs you, but then you need to take a step back from the relationship and let her get in touch if she chooses to do so.

 

Your own feelings are precarious at this point and you need to work on moving past that. If you remain emotionally intimate, you're just going to get sucked into imagining that a romantic relationship could happen, and it sounds like she is not going to be in that place anytime soon, if ever.

[darkrose]

I have done exactly that. distanced myself from that whole notion. She asked me if I thought she were crazy, and I replied that I'm just not sure how she could confuse the two. Again it almost sounds like fear. I don't want to sound self serving in anything I say to her, which is why I'm at a loss on how to approach it. She really does want the friendship right now, as she admitted. I just don't know how to reply to that scenario, hence seeking advice/feedback

[deadparrot]

I understand that you want to help her, but you have to care about your own emotional health, too.

 

I don't know the circumstances of the situation, but she's aware of your feelings, has said that she doesn't want to lead you on (implying that she doesn't return them), and that you can only be friends. From a detached outside perspective, it seems like she is aware of your feelings, and likes having you as an emotional sounding board when things go bad in her relationship.

 

Quite frankly, whether that is consciously manipulative or not on her part, it's not fair to you to be the platonic friend who hears all her relationship drama when you have feelings for her. Surely she has other friends or family to lean on for support.

 

If you want to continue this relationship, that's your prerogative, but in my experience, the "friend" in these situations is the one who ultimately gets disappointed and hurt.

[Tayla]

darkrose, I'd stop that train and give her a kind reality check.

 

Best way to clear up mud, is wash away the misconceptions she keeps handing you.

[darkrose]

I can see what you're both saying and appreciate it. I'm going to continue to distance myself and only offer what any other friend would, keeping my emotional well being first and foremost. I think my biggest confusion lay in how she could confuse two complete distinctive people. To me it sounds like a load of ****. I am curious your opinion on that.

She was visibly shaken when we first met, but I've never heard of that kind of mistaken identity. It seemed rather over the top?

[lazcas]

Darkrose, it is very nice of you to want to help her and to care fo her as you do, but you first need to take care of your own well being, it wouldn't be fair if you end up hurt by someone who isn't really even being a real friend to you right now. She may get professional help and heal through therapy, you could suggest that to her as a friend, it doesn't seem like she will be able to get better by herself. She evidently has some deep issues.

[darkrose]

I agree, the relationship she had with this "gentleman" was strictly physical until she realized she had feelings. She admitted this to him and then he ran away, contacted her only after we were talking and about 6 mths later to tell her that all she was to him was a bed buddy, Then propositioned her the very next week. Her relationships were never good to her, and I think this might have been the breaking point. I think I'm trying to make sense of a rather complicated dynamic that developed from it all.

[deadparrot]

Ultimately, I think that that's the mark of a relationship that's not destined to flourish, platonically or otherwise. You were attracted to the person you thought she was (and perhaps who she projected herself to be), but her actions are showing the real her.

 

God knows I've dated men who I let treat me terribly out of a mistaken belief that I knew the "real" guy and that the bad behavior was just a phrase. Meanwhile, I let myself believe the mind games and get endlessly strung on (and hurt). When I started to use the philosophy "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" as my guiding principle in dating, I had success. Someone who's emotionally ready for a mature relationship is going to make that known. When I met my boyfriend, I was never in doubt that he was going to get in touch or that we were going to go on another date.

 

I'm not saying she's a bad person, but she doesn't seem ready for any sort of serious commitment given her recent track record. Your account of your first meeting was very confusing for me as a reader, as well, so I'm not sure what was going on there.

[TMichaels]

I think my biggest confusion lay in how she could confuse two complete distinctive people. To me it sounds like a load of ****. I am curious your opinion on that.

She was visibly shaken when we first met, but I've never heard of that kind of mistaken identity. It seemed rather over the top?

 

So, what are you saying?

 

 

That even though you told her while you were corresponding that you weren't her ex in disguise she thought you still were, and perhaps that's why (wishful thinking on her part) she agreed to meet you?

 

 

Or, that when you did meet/after you met, she keeps confusing the two of you in her mind and thinks half the time you are her ex?

 

 

Best,

TMichaels

[darkrose]

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what she was thinking. She had pulled back several times before we met, only to apologize and g on as if nothing was wrong. She did say several times that she was convinced I was her ex lover trying to test her and then admitted she knew the difference. She actually said that she thought it was him using voice altering software when we spoke.

When we first met, she was visibly shaken and said to me that actually expected it would him coming to see her. But later on that day, she relaxed and said that she knew the difference. By the time I got home, she had gone off in the other direction again.

I don't know if this is just an elaborate hoax or she has genuine issues. All I know is

that I am at a loss, I'm not so much hurt as confused.

[deadparrot]

I think she's the only one who can answer your questions and she isn't. In that case, I think you've just got to accept that you're probably not going to get the answer you want. Accepting that is likely the best form of closure you're going to get.

[darkrose]

I do think someday I will get answers, but it isn't going to be soon. My best bet is to just assume she has deeper issues than I realize. There is is an awful lot of guilt that she has never resolved and I think she hides from it. As it was put before she was not prepared to be accepted as she was, and I think it is scaring the **** out of her to think she might be trusting someone again. It's much easier to deal with platonic and physical relationships than emotional attachments. So she pushes people away.

[TMichaels]

I do think someday I will get answers, but it isn't going to be soon. My best bet is to just assume she has deeper issues than I realize. There is is an awful lot of guilt that she has never resolved and I think she hides from it. As it was put before she was not prepared to be accepted as she was, and I think it is scaring the **** out of her to think she might be trusting someone again. It's much easier to deal with platonic and physical relationships than emotional attachments. So she pushes people away.

 

I think you are spending too much time trying to analyze her actions with the hopes you can prove *to her* she has self-worth.

 

You can't "give" that to her; she's got to figure that out herself. TBH, as well-intentioned as you may be, she sounds like she has some serious issues and should be seeking professional help.

 

You are not "being another scumag boyfriend" by taking yourself off her radar. You aren't her boyfriend -- she's still attached to the last scumbag which part of her would like to "behave nicely" like you were treating her, while the other half of her thinks she doesn't deserve better which is why she keps holding a torch for scumbags, will take whatever they dish out, and come running the minute they come sniffing around.

 

The scumbags know she has no self-esteem so it doesn't matter how badly they treat her; she'll be there with bells on, asking for more. And, Quelle Surprise! She does.

 

You don't need to get yourself involved in this. She doesn't need a friend to straighten her out. She needs counseling from a qualified professional and possibly medication. As others have advised, keep distancing yourself and don't get sucked in any more than you already have.

 

Best,

TMichaels

[darkrose]

Thank you for your candor. I think what pains me most is that she really is a remarkable lady. As hard as it is, I have to keep a distance, and she does know that I care.

Thank you all

[darkrose]

Quick update, she contacted me today out of the blue. Again she apologized for being so rude for not talking as much as she once did, and reiterating the only friends rhetoric to which I agreed many days ago. This is several notes she has sent even after I told her that was the only thing I intended to be, and that I would be here if she needed me.

I told her the same thing, that I would be her friend nd that if she needed me to talk I'd be there. This is confusing the hell out of me, and I'm wondering if there isn't something terribly wrong.

[deadparrot]

Frankly, it sounds like she has issues above and beyond what you can help her with. She clearly needs professional help. "Being a friend" would involve pointing her toward those resources and stepping away to let her get her life back on track if she so chooses. At this point, you're just enabling her self-destructive behavior.

[darkrose]

I did suggest she seek counselling, because of abuse she suffered during her marriage.

It's been over 6 years and she is terrified to file for divorce because the court advisor

suggested she take his threats seriously. That's where I think a lot of her esteem problems originate. There is way too much that I am not equipped to deal with.

I'm trying to figure out how to point her in the right direction without abandoning her, I think I may be the breaking point if I do. But I certainly do not want to encourage this escapist behavior and destructive tendencies she is engaged in. I really do want to be a good friend.

[deadparrot]

I guess I'm confused. She has an abusive estranged husband, apart from the ex/current lover (referenced in your first post) she mistook you for, and who also treats her badly?

 

At the end of the day, though, that's really beside the point. There are lots of hotlines out there for abuse and depression (and if you really feel like she is in real imminent danger, you can call on her behalf). I would find some for your local area that you feel are most appropriate to her situation and pass them along. What she chooses to do with that information is up to her, but just being there to chat isn't helping her, it's enabling and preventing her from seeking the help the really needs.

[darkrose]

Sorry for the confusion. She was in an abusive marriage for 10 years, she extricated herself from that situation. Several years later she entered into the relationship with the fellow she confused me for, that one had ended six months before she and I physically met. That man used her for a bed buddy and bolted when she mentioned emotional attachment. I really feel its a self esteem problem, possibly PTSD. I have mentioned to her GF to get her some help. If she contacts me again , I'm just going to reinforce the treatment necessity. I'll let her vent, but no advice from me.

[deadparrot]

I know I've probably sounded harsh, but it's only because I can empathize. In my case, it wasn't a love interest, but rather a grad school classmate, housemate, and friend. She got romantically entangled with another of our classmates, who treated her terribly--cheating on her with at least three women, two of whom were in the class behind us, leading her on then pulling back, etc. Because her self-esteem was in the toilet at this point (he was her first love; her first everything, really), she kept taking him back over and over. I stopped counting the number of times they broke up once I ran out of fingers. It was traumatic for her, and exhausting for me, and it took her seeing a counselor and getting prescribed medication for anxiety for things to stabilize.

 

Basically, it's painful to watch someone you care about engage in self-destructive behavior, but at some point, you realize that you're sort of irrelevant to the situation--their problems are way bigger than you can possibly deal with. They have to hit rock bottom and consciously make the decision to seek professional help before things get better.

 

Hoping for a happy and healthy outcome for both of you!

[darkrose]

Thank you very much. I'm hoping she doesn't return to that behavior, because she'll never move forward. I don't care if it's not with me. I'm just going to be the best friend I can

and let it all work out the way it should.

Cheers and all the best to you as well

[justwhoiam]

I met a lady quite by accident through a dating site

She was on a dating website and a female, and you seriously think you were the only one contacting her? Come on. Have you thought of that? Honestly, don't you think she was getting hit through the website quite regularly?

 

I emailed her as she was leaving the site

Oh, come on, again. What a coincidence. You're not really believing what you just wrote, are you? She had her finger on the Delete-my-account button right when an e-mail reached her inbox and she opened it.......... You get a higher chance of being hit by lightning than the story you're trying to feed us being true.

 

Her first reaction was based on mistaken identity

Have you ever thought that this might be a tactic of her and she might have used it on a number of guys? You may wonder: why would she do that? That's totally psychotic, right? Well, maybe it serves her purpose. Any guy suddenly feels empathy for her and starts being sweet and caring... and in no time, she has a series of poor good guys getting sucked up in her s--t. And she might get so far as to even ask for money in times of need... she really sounds like that kind. She does sound like the taker. Taking all that she can take.

 

because the email provided was only used by her and her former lover.

Please, use your brain here. Didn't you contact her through a website? So the email you used was registered with that dating website. That's how she'd get her newsletters and messages from guys hitting on her. And you buy all this stuff? Is she so hideous that no one contacted her ever other than her previous date? How believable is that? 1 to 10, probably 2.

 

she did not want to get involved with anyone. [...] After a couple of months we both admitted our feelings had changed

Have you ever heard of women with a scheme? Well, news for you... they do exist. Other news coming: you might not be the only one she did all that with, simultaneously. That would explain the on and off behavior, available not available behavior throughout...

 

feelings grew deeper and we met, it did not go well

You claim it didn't go well, because she thought she was meeting up with someone else, not you. Don't fool yourself. It didn't go well, because you're not her kind. Let's get real here, please. If a sexy famous actor had shown up instead of you, I can tell she wouldn't have given a ... about the past guy. So let's start by saying that as soon as she met you, she was hit by reality: she was not attracted to you. This is harsh, but you need to understand this. And by playing the good male friend in this kind of situation, you only lose your manhood. Which is more turnoff that you could even imagine. A man can still be the good male friend and still be firm and a man not losing manliness/virility, but it's a fine line. I think you passed that line. And you indeed lost your manhood in her eyes. Which makes for zero chances of anything happening.

 

Shortly after I returned home

So you traveled, right? Did you see her house? Did she let you in her own little world? Could you see where and how she lives? Did you meet up with any of her real life friends? I guess nothing of that happened, right? She could have 3 kids, and you wouldn't know. Because, you know nothing about her. Whether it fits your case or not, this reminds me of that woman who claimed she was 10 years younger than her real age, and single, when she was indeed 10 years older, married and with 3 grown-up children. She even lied about her profession. I'm not saying she lied, as I don't know much about her anyway. But you don't seem to know much either, other than about her emotions. You started out talking about feelings and intimate stuff, skipping the basics here. And you can only rely on her to know the truth.

 

I really wanted to stay in contact because I genuinely care for her not just for sex

Which means sex is naturally involved. It's not the kind of friendship you'd have with someone named Tom or Jim. So you can't fool anyone with your "I'm ok with just being friends". It's more like "I can be OK with it if I can't have more... I can deal with it".

 

She shared many things with me that she never shared with another

This is like when many women say "I've never felt like this before" when having sex with a man... You don't really know how many people know about her affairs. I must assume it was not just you. Try to be more objective, even considering that she had an account on a dating website (or still does, or - probable - she's on several dating websites).

 

It almost seems like she feels guilty for having feelings for me while still having love for a man who doesn't want her.

What kind of feelings? You must know that if she had been attracted to you, she'd be all over you, right? That didn't happen, and for a reason. You make 1 + 1 and do the math. All the rambling about pushing people away is just BS you use to try and justify her behavior in other ways other than the easiest, most obvious one.

 

She asked me if I thought she were crazy, and I replied that I'm just not sure how she could confuse the two.

Don't get sucked up in her games. Act carelessly. Don't reply to her messages right away. Go on with your day and only get back to her after you exhausted all other possible activities you can think of. You might see a new side of her: the obsessed psychotic making a scene. Or she might just lose interest.

 

I'm going to continue to distance myself and only offer what any other friend would, keeping my emotional well being first and foremost.

If you do, then you don't share your personal stuff with her, especially your own feelings. Don't cross that line. If she asks about your feelings, you just go with "Don't take it personally, but I already discuss that topic with my best buddy, I have no interest in talking about this with you". If she's a friend, she can't blame you for being honest.

 

I don't know if this is just an elaborate hoax

I see that the thought crossed your mind...

 

what pains me most is that she really is a remarkable lady.

How is she remarkable? You mean pretty?

 

I have mentioned to her GF

How did you get in touch with her gf? Have you met her in person? It could be her pretending to be her gf... Edited May 9, 2016 by justwhoiam