Women are too picky

[Porter56]

Ok so the title of this thread was meant to attract attention to it because I'd like serious input here....

 

I'm not saying a person shouldn't be picky because spending your life with someone is too big a deal to just go with anyone who comes along. What I think is that women might not be willing to accept a man for who he is as much as what they want him to be.

 

All I hear is how when you meet a woman she has a mental checklist and she has tests she's going to put you through and as a man trying to meet women I'm told what to wear, how to do my hair, how to smell, how to stand, how to talk, how to walk but.... I should just be myself. What???

 

I feel like I'm going to sing in front of Simon Cowell rather than just trying to meet a new person...maybe make a new friend and possibly date if we have a connection.

 

Another HUGE thing I hear about is this thing called status. Men should have status. Which is the polite term for money. Everyone knows that, but it sounds too shallow to say it so we cover up our true intentions with pleasant/politically correct language.

 

My impression of all this is that with all this talk I hear about checklists,tests, and status makes me feel like women don't want you for who you are...they want you because of what you can do for them.

 

This is fine. A person should go after what they want no matter what that is...to each his own. But it doesn't work for me is the thing.

 

Just being myself: I have 3 degrees, good job, financially independent and stable but not wealthy, I am healthy and fit, like the outdoors and learning new skills blah blah blah...is middle of the road/average and doesn't exactly reek of "STATUS". So I'm never going to pass a checklist or test.

 

I would like women's thoughts on this...why do you seem so displeased with the average man?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Porter56

[blackcat777]

Some of it is biological, to a degree. Same way how many guys can say no to a hot piece of a young 20 something?

 

Women who are out for exclusively the status may be a little superficial... and you need to find a way of filtering them.

 

For me, personally, what I care about is a man's sense of pride, dignity, work ethic, integrity. If his job is mediocre but he can still carry his own weight, is motivated and active in the relationship, it's fine.

 

I just don't want a deadbeat. There is a huge difference. I made the mistake of getting mixed up with a deadbeat once... Having to provide FOR a man made me feel like his mother and murdered the attraction.

 

But yeah, self-sufficient, functional, self-respecting adults, bring 'em on!

 

I think SOME of the concerns with a good provider are rooted in nest-building... but again, how this manifests, will vary greatly from woman to woman.

 

My boyfriend was hypothetically perusing doctorate study programs the other night, and I felt a horrible twinge of nervousness because I know that comes with a certain type of woman scheming to nab him for his money...

 

Edit: If you're doing OLD, it also artificially places women in a position of having overinflated options, so they will be even MORE picky, and you have to go in knowing "the game" is ridiculous that way, expect a lot of it, and fully understand the internet is insane, lest you drive yourself crazy.

 

Internet is not equal to real life, it's a horrifying charicature, and you need to go in with a strong stomach to navigate it sometimes.

Edited May 5, 2016 by blackcat777

[jen1447]

I would like women's thoughts on this...why do you seem so displeased with the average man?

 

Bc he's a man.

 

Srsly tho, where are you seeing/hearing all this exactly?

[fitnessfan365]

The thing I find interesting is that the OP repeatedly says "I hear". He doesn't seem to be basing any of this on personal experience. Instead of listening to a lot of cliche's and dating misconceptions, why not just keep being the best you that you can be and focus on actually meeting women?

 

I mean do you know how many beautiful women I've seen in the fitness industry that are with average Joe's that look like they make less than $30,000 a year? In my experience, what women really appreciate is how well you can stimulate their emotions.

[smudge21]

You make it sound like all the women you meet are making you jump through hoops and run at their pace, whereas you'll pretty much take whatever you can get. When getting into a relationship, it should never just be about one person making sure all they're boxes are ticked. Whose to say men can't be just as picky, and often are, when it comes to that first date. It's like a job interview; the employer believes they are there to allow someone into their company so that person has to measure up to their standards. However, the employee also has to know that the company they're about to commit long term to meets their standards and will be good for them - so both sides are interviewing each other at the same time. That's always how it should be, and it's the same with dating. Plus don't think for one second that women are just taking it easy whilst the men are the only ones making all the effort - I'm pretty sure many on here will tell you the work they put in to dating. Basically yes, women are picky, but so are men, and cats... cats are really picky. Hey ho.

[Jabron1]

My impression of all this is that with all this talk I hear about checklists,tests, and status makes me feel like women don't want you for who you are...they want you because of what you can do for them.

 

Give the man a round of applause

 

It's dating. What do you expect? Your value to others is everything. Same with your job, social circle, and nearly everything else.

 

Ultimately though, your value should be you. Your presence.

 

Not how much money you have, or how well you can provide. Not what wonderful places you can take her to on dates. Not filling some stupid 'checklist', or getting the latest haircut.

 

You are basically asking a woman what she wants, and then trying to be it. Jumping through hoops will only make you looked down upon for being weak.

 

Play your own game, and never be subservient to anybody.

[basil67]

I'll be the first to admit that I've got checklists. Things such as compassion and having a mild disposition make it onto my list. As does being employed (or at least, not long term unemployed)

 

But 'status'? I wonder what type of people you hang out with.

[Versacehottie]

The thing I find interesting is that the OP repeatedly says "I hear". He doesn't seem to be basing any of this on personal experience. Instead of listening to a lot of cliche's and dating misconceptions, why not just keep being the best you that you can be and focus on actually meeting women?

 

I mean do you know how many beautiful women I've seen in the fitness industry that are with average Joe's that look like they make less than $30,000 a year? In my experience, what women really appreciate is how well you can stimulate their emotions.

 

Yeah, I was going to say OP needs to gather real data to either support or disprove his theory. And since it would benefit him if his "theory" was disproved than he should instead of saying all women like only this or have a checklist or have to have a guy who makes a certain amount etc, say to himself "why not me"?

 

The things he listed that he has ARE some women's checklist!!! Some checklists going way way way too far beyond that and some people don't even have them. Some people have loose ones and some have ones that go out the window when the right guy comes along. Be your best to attract your best.

 

Also OP since it came up on your other thread, and relates to this I would say: rather than try to mind read what will fail you out in the dating world, why not just let the dating market determine your league. Don't assume that you are beneath anyone or above them. You don't truly know what variables they will base their decision on AND you are both underestimating yourself and overestimating yourself with a thought like that. You also don't really know if THEY have the goods you want based on just the outside package. You will have to explore a little deeper to find out. Someone who could seem intimidating, out-of-your-league dream girl at first could turn out to be a dimwit and not for you at all.

 

I do think that OLD is the worst if you want to get away from checklist thinking. The FORMAT for most of it is a stupid checklist so it's hard to escape. Apps are probably slightly better just because it's a little more easy-breezy and you escape some of the checklist stuff. But basically OLD is 2-dimensional, checklist thinking. Not that it can't work or that you should eliminate that avenue but don't think you will escape checklist thinking there, either from the girls or that you won't use it yourself.

[Porter56]

Jenn1447,

This is all based on friends of mine who are women, my friends' gfs/wives, and women I've encountered in my life while dating, and my mother.

 

I apologize, when I say "I hear", I am referring to personal experience partially and also stuff I have read online from date coaches and PUA. And before anyone says it.... I know you're supposed to spend less time reading stuff online and more time actually doing something about it. I have spent time discussing this with friends and I'll give you an example...

 

I have a friend who is engaged to a stunning beauty of a girl. And she's incredibly smart as well as very successful in her career. She's not some dumb blonde with nothing going on between her ears. I had a talk with her one night about some of this stuff and she mentioned several things like: working out more, buy more expensive clothes, brand name shoes are important, she said that I had a great job but I should look into investment opportunities so I could double my income(she works in investments so I think she was trying to sell me something lol), and to master "manly skills" like fixing cars and carpentry.

 

She also said to try to get to know "important" people. Women love a guy with connections. Like getting to know some restaurant/club owners so when taking a woman out you could show off who you know because "all of life is about who you know not who you are or what you know"...that's a direct quote.

 

She said "anybody can get with a guy who's nice and blah blah blah but these things really set you apart from those boring run of the mill guys and can make you a better catch"

 

So there's some things "I hear "....

[RecentChange]

I don't know, I never created these "check lists" - and can't say my friends had them either (okay, one friend does, she is 37 and at this point has never had a BF in her adult life).

 

Here were my "requirements":

 

Physically attracted to him

Smart

Similar sense of humour / life outlook / politcis etc

REALLY into me

 

As for status, for me it was never about money, but being driven. I find DRIVE and passion very attractive. So while he wasn't rich, he was a successful athlete which was a reflect of his drive, and he is very popular, which was a reflection of his social skills, humor, and likability.

 

No " test" no hoops.

 

You said you have been given advice to find a "good catch" - why are you so displeased with the "average woman"? (to turn the tables)

 

Lastly, do you believe you are an "average guy"? Nothing special? If so, that is something women may be picking up on.

 

Confidence, thinking that you are something special, that you are a catch is quite attractive.

 

Three degrees? Fit and outdoorsy? That doesn't sound like an "average" guy to me, that sounds like someone a bit extraordinary - do you think you are?

[RecentChange]

Oh, and most PUA "advice" might get you laid, but it's not going to land you a healthy relationship. Manipulation and game playing is not how you find a life partner.

[SammySammy]

I have a checklist too. Have standards and women have to prove themselves to me too.

 

Maybe your problem is not that women have standards, but your standards are too low. Or nonexistent.

[MsJayne]

You know your friend, the one who is engaged to the stunning beauty of a girl who's really smart and has a successful career, (and also has pretentious, shallow values, and clearly thinks you're an overweight and badly dressed nobody)? Well, therein lies your answer. If you think that this woman is a good catch, and this is the sort of woman you aspire to getting involved with, you better enrol in How To Be A Pretentious Dick classes. Your friend is going to end up in the divorce court soon enough, and she will whip the brand name designer shirt right off his back when she clears out to run off with someone who is more 'important' than him. If you choose soulless women as company, you get what you pay for, 'pay' being the operative word in that sentence.

[basil67]

Jenn1447,

I have a friend who is engaged to a stunning beauty of a girl. And she's incredibly smart as well as very successful in her career. She's not some dumb blonde with nothing going on between her ears. I had a talk with her one night about some of this stuff and she mentioned several things like: working out more, buy more expensive clothes, brand name shoes are important, she said that I had a great job but I should look into investment opportunities so I could double my income(she works in investments so I think she was trying to sell me something lol), and to master "manly skills" like fixing cars and carpentry.

 

She also said to try to get to know "important" people. Women love a guy with connections. Like getting to know some restaurant/club owners so when taking a woman out you could show off who you know because "all of life is about who you know not who you are or what you know"...that's a direct quote.

.

 

Ah, yes - exactly what I thought. I'd NEVER choose to have a friend like this woman. Hence the reason I've never heard people talk about wanting 'status' in a man. Ugh.

 

If you hang around people who appreciate designer gear and has money and status (like this woman), OF COURSE she's going to want a man who has similar goals. But if you want a woman who's appreciates a guy who's a more regular joe, then avoid uppity women like this one.

[basil67]

You know your friend, the one who is engaged to the stunning beauty of a girl who's really smart and has a successful career, (and also has pretentious, shallow values, and clearly thinks you're an overweight and badly dressed nobody)? Well, therein lies your answer. If you think that this woman is a good catch, and this is the sort of woman you aspire to getting involved with, you better enrol in How To Be A Pretentious Dick classes. Your friend is going to end up in the divorce court soon enough, and she will whip the brand name designer shirt right off his back when she clears out to run off with someone who is more 'important' than him. If you choose soulless women as company, you get what you pay for, 'pay' being the operative word in that sentence.

 

Quoting because it's such an excellent post. Please stick around MsJayne!

[Buddhist]

I'm just going to reply to the nugget of what you intend here.

 

What I think is that women might not be willing to accept a man for who he is as much as what they want him to be.

 

And this is true of just about everyone (all genders) out there dating. Absolutely no-one and I mean no-one ever approaches another person seeing them for who they truly are. That's why it's called love goggles. Everyone approaches another person seeing only the projection of their own secret dreams and desires.

 

My impression of all this is that with all this talk I hear about checklists,tests, and status makes me feel like women don't want you for who you are...they want you because of what you can do for them.

 

I agree. But you have to realise this is everyone who has ever dated. Ever. Why do men pursue a woman? It's not to sit around adoring her personality. They want sex and they want the status of having a desired woman on their arm. Women are the same. They want sex and the status of a desired man on their arm. Anyone who tells you any different is frankly lying.

 

I would like women's thoughts on this...why do you seem so displeased with the average man?

 

Humanity is not yet at the juncture in evolution where we can practice unconditional love with each other. That's just the bald truth. People are in relationships for what they can get out of them. Men and women both. The other bald truth in life is that you are the only person who will ever accept you for what and who you are. If you want proof you've only got to read the dating section of LS. It's littered with people trying to get what they want and failing because the other person just refused to be who they wanted them to be.

 

Your only error in judgement here is thinking it's just women. It's everyone.

[MsJayne]

Quoting because it's such an excellent post. Please stick around MsJayne!

 

Why thank you Basil

[Forceawakensme]

i know plenty of 'average' women (average looking, average income etc) happy to date an 'average' man. I wonder if you are actually asking these 'average' women out though?

 

Can you honestly say you are dating women without being 'picky' about their 'average' looks?

[Buddhist]

I have a friend who is engaged to a stunning beauty of a girl. And she's incredibly smart as well as very successful in her career.

 

I don't challenge the notion you find her a great beauty. There's that status thing you were talking about.... But I do challenge the notion that she is smart based on what you've just said. She's not speaking for all women, she's speaking for women....like her. Be careful you're not falling into the trap of projecting your own behaviours on the world. Are you accepting of women as they are? Or are you looking for someone to increase your status, do things for you etc. Of course few of us will ever admit it, but no-one gets into a relationship to give and not receive anything they are seeking.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Buddhist

[Versacehottie]

Oh, and most PUA "advice" might get you laid, but it's not going to land you a healthy relationship. Manipulation and game playing is not how you find a life partner.

 

I agree. Most of the PUA stuff I've "heard" is bitter guys spewing manipulation tactics. Sure some of the manipulation might work at points, but adopting that bitter attitude toward women will almost unilaterally set you back. Plus then let's say it does work, what are you going to do with a girl that settles down for a life with a "you" that's not you? Those tactics may get you in the door, but happy, healthy real relationship, no, not so much.

[Woggle]

Instead of manipulation the best tactic is brutal honesty. Some people might not like me but they always know where they stand and that has served me well with women.

[losangelena]

The good thing about the fact that there are 3.5 billion women on earth is that they don't all have the same priorities. I'm not sure where all this anecdotal evidence came from, but I can assure you that neither me nor any of my female friends have unattainable man check lists.

[Versacehottie]

You know your friend, the one who is engaged to the stunning beauty of a girl who's really smart and has a successful career, (and also has pretentious, shallow values, and clearly thinks you're an overweight and badly dressed nobody)? Well, therein lies your answer. If you think that this woman is a good catch, and this is the sort of woman you aspire to getting involved with, you better enrol in How To Be A Pretentious Dick classes. Your friend is going to end up in the divorce court soon enough, and she will whip the brand name designer shirt right off his back when she clears out to run off with someone who is more 'important' than him. If you choose soulless women as company, you get what you pay for, 'pay' being the operative word in that sentence.

 

It sounds like our dear OP (who I do like and hope does well!!) is trying to improve his own status through that of his partner, if this friend's gf is the benchmark.

 

Truthfully, we all like our partner to be a reflection of an ideal life. I think you just might want to dig a little deeper, OP, than some of the surface stuff you've described. Remember you are signing up for life or even a long time. I can tell from your posts that you have some good things going on but you may just be lacking in confidence and experience with girls. A trophy on your arm, is just a trophy, not a wife that will make you happy. Like any shiny, new toy it will bore you after a short while.

 

For the sake of discussion and to be fair, perhaps you are just a guy who appreciates a woman who takes care of herself physically, is stylish and outspoken, confident. If these are the traits of this fiance of your friend's, then reverse that and there you have it as to some things a girl looks for in a guy and the reasons why.

 

Some of the outward qualities ALWAYS play a role in who we are attracted to, fair enough. Sometimes it is because they represent the depth underneath and characteristics of ambition, etc etc. Take ambition--a quality MANY women say they are attracted to, for example, it would be weird if it hadn't manifested itself into a good job, some material gains, right? It's hard to tell if a guy who lives in his mother's basement at a certain age with nothing to show for his ambition and hard work is actually ambitious. I think another reason why ambition and security in a guy's career often keeps coming up is because we've learned from our experiences and friends'/family stories--and if a guy is not feeling like this, he probably won't want to invest deeply into a relationship, in a good way or get married in the near future. He'd have unfinished business. He wouldn't be ready to be serious.

 

BTW, I think you take it much too far with what the majority of women feel is a good job--yours seems like it would qualify based on what you said for the majority of women.

[AMJ]

All I hear is how when you meet a woman she has a mental checklist and she has tests she's going to put you through and as a man trying to meet women I'm told what to wear, how to do my hair, how to smell, how to stand, how to talk, how to walk but.... I should just be myself. What???

 

And you think women aren't given the same advice, about what to wear, how to act, how to do our hair, what makeup to wear, what bra to wear, what to say? Men have it so much easier when it comes to this department. Just take a shower and wear clothes that are clean, fit you well, and are remotely in style and you'll be fine. You seriously have no idea how much effort women put into their appearance.

Anyway, all of this advice is meant to direct you towards a certain outcome. If you don't want to mind any of this advice and just "be yourself", then just be yourself! When it's all said and done, if you play a game you don't want to play, you're only going to catch a woman you won't want to work to keep.

 

 

My impression of all this is that with all this talk I hear about checklists,tests, and status makes me feel like women don't want you for who you are...they want you because of what you can do for them.

Men have checklists and tests also. Maybe men care less about status but they care more about physical appearance than women generally do.

It's not that women "don't want you for who you are" it's that you seem to not want the women who do like you as you are.

 

I would like women's thoughts on this...why do you seem so displeased with the average man?

Well, why are men so displeased with the average woman? Case in point, your friend's future wife.

 

 

I have a friend who is engaged to a stunning beauty of a girl. And she's incredibly smart as well as very successful in her career. She's not some dumb blonde with nothing going on between her ears. I had a talk with her one night about some of this stuff and she mentioned several things like: working out more, buy more expensive clothes, brand name shoes are important, she said that I had a great job but I should look into investment opportunities so I could double my income(she works in investments so I think she was trying to sell me something lol), and to master "manly skills" like fixing cars and carpentry.

 

She also said to try to get to know "important" people. Women love a guy with connections. Like getting to know some restaurant/club owners so when taking a woman out you could show off who you know because "all of life is about who you know not who you are or what you know"...that's a direct quote.

 

She said "anybody can get with a guy who's nice and blah blah blah but these things really set you apart from those boring run of the mill guys and can make you a better catch"

 

 

You bring her up because she's the type of woman you want. A stunning beauty of a girl who's also brilliant and very successful in her career. You did not describe her as average.

 

She must also agree that she's above average and therefore she tells you she's not at all attracted to 'average' men. Do I really need to explain this any further?

 

For what it's worth, I know lots of women who could care less about designer clothes and being friends with bar/club/restaurant owners (how is that the definition of status, anyway?) or having status or being wealthy.

 

People- yes, women- who aren't superficial do exist, you just can't seem to find them.

[SwordofFlame]

It's fine to think about ticking all of the boxes on a women's checklist, but just make sure she's also ticking all of the boxes on YOUR own checklist.