Women are too picky

[Woggle]

To the above, women face A LOT more of this than men. Heck, many of the messages we get are about finding a man at ALL cost and that your only value is if a man wants to be with you or sleep with you and the prize of all prize is marry you. And even if you get married, you better stay looking like not a day over 25 or else your husband will leave you for a younger model. There are immensely more beauty, fitness, cosmetic surgery things etc marketed towards women than men and the fashion, beauty and cosmetic surgery industry are far more geared towards making women look, smell, stand, chemically and surgically alter their bodies, personalities, etc to find a man. Have you been to a book store? Check out the relationship section, most of that is geared towards women and how they can change themselves to find a man or fix their relationship or read a man's mind and few are geared towards men doing the same. So even as a woman if you have a career, other interests, your own money etc...some people still think those things are secondary to finding a man. It's then not really all that surprising that for some women, when they're told the only value they have is in finding a man (see some threads here currently about why women marry and basically a woman should stay home and cater to her man), that they then focus on finding one who can do something for them.

 

Women would probably do better in relationships if they stopped reading over those books and were just themselves. There are thousands of these books out and judging by the state of modern relationships they don't do any good whatsoever. Most of them are written by people who don't know what they are talking about.

[TheBathWater]

Ok so the title of this thread was meant to attract attention to it because I'd like serious input here....

 

I'm not saying a person shouldn't be picky because spending your life with someone is too big a deal to just go with anyone who comes along. What I think is that women might not be willing to accept a man for who he is as much as what they want him to be.

 

All I hear is how when you meet a woman she has a mental checklist and she has tests she's going to put you through and as a man trying to meet women I'm told what to wear, how to do my hair, how to smell, how to stand, how to talk, how to walk but.... I should just be myself. What???

 

I feel like I'm going to sing in front of Simon Cowell rather than just trying to meet a new person...maybe make a new friend and possibly date if we have a connection.

 

Another HUGE thing I hear about is this thing called status. Men should have status. Which is the polite term for money. Everyone knows that, but it sounds too shallow to say it so we cover up our true intentions with pleasant/politically correct language.

 

My impression of all this is that with all this talk I hear about checklists,tests, and status makes me feel like women don't want you for who you are...they want you because of what you can do for them.

 

This is fine. A person should go after what they want no matter what that is...to each his own. But it doesn't work for me is the thing.

 

Just being myself: I have 3 degrees, good job, financially independent and stable but not wealthy, I am healthy and fit, like the outdoors and learning new skills blah blah blah...is middle of the road/average and doesn't exactly reek of "STATUS". So I'm never going to pass a checklist or test.

 

I would like women's thoughts on this...why do you seem so displeased with the average man?

 

I have to say I understand where you're coming from. The issue though to me seems not to be merely one of status (because it sounds like you have some), but it's really about captivating a woman's attention and keeping her interested. Frankly, in a world where everything is disposable and all about the moment, and add to it a dating game where women are pursued, then I do think we are in a unique situation today where more women are dating based on feelings 'in the moment' and will bail at any time simply because they get bored and have so much choice coming at them constantly. Guys have to chase and work for it, and so are more willing to settle on someone they like to stop chasing and exhausting themselves. The odds are against us. There are definitely excellent women out there who have the life skills it takes to sustain a relationship with a good guy, but they are rare and really have no reason to be that way anymore. And what reason do women have to change their behavior? Guys keep idealizing and pursuing them, the world keeps promoting casual sex, and men are currently framed as the ones who need to change. I see serious trouble ahead for relationships in general over the years ahead. Watch.

Edited May 7, 2016 by TunaInTheBrine

[todreaminblue]

who decides the average......man....who is average anyway...i think every human is unique.....and that every person is exceptional......we all have gifts and talents that are awesome...its if we choose to use them.....or even know them...that goes for men too....

 

i feel every woman has a list a list of what she would like....then we compromise......on what we can compromise on ...and then what we cant......i cant compromise on kindness.....or compassion or a love of god or a guy who stands up for himself or others....or is just a nice (i know dreaded word) guy......because if i were to compromise on those things then the relationship wouldnt last...it would be a time waster for both.....

 

everyone has a list of what they would like in a mate..even if it is unconscious....and what they dont want or cannot handle in a mate ...is often much clearer

 

i think what really matters is how you view life.....and love....and if you view it positively...then you will have a positive life...and love.....there is no average....you decide what you will or wont have..you choose.......its all down to the individual........deb

[Porter56]

Well I left town and went to my buddies place for the weekend to stay with him and his wife. We have all been friends since college and haven't seen each other in probably two years so it's nice to catch up. But anyway...

 

We stayed in last night had some beers and caught up and I went over my issues and they had some thoughts. These two have known me for 16 years so their input carries some weight.

 

The wife told me I shouldn't be so worried because when we first met she actually had a crush on me and so did most her friends. My buddy joked that I had to sleep somewhere else this weekend lol.

 

She also said that over the years when I would meet some of her new friends, about 8 out of 10 times in her estimation...the girl would privately express that she liked me but I wouldn't pick up on it or be very withdrawn and it would turn the girl off. She also said that whenever we had gone to bars/parties over the years she would notice at least 2 or 3 girls looking at me or clearly waiting for me to notice them. I was skeptical about this but she said "trust me I'm a woman I can pick up on these things"...she said "you're an idiot...women like you, a lot actually. You're just too much inside of yourself to notice or to take the initiative"

 

She said I can be too closed off. I am good at listening but I don't share anything of myself in conversations and it feels one sided,which kills rapport. Women hate that and it can kill attraction. She said to quit worrying about seeming weird for being yourself and just say what you think and feel.

 

She said "trust me you're attractive and when you open up you're one of the greatest guys to be around but too much of the time you're closed off and talking to you can feel like talking to a wall, even for us and we've known you forever"

 

So this is some good input I guess...although a lot of what she said did hit close to home and I know she's right. I feel kinda weird about what she said and in a way more nervous about going out tonight...

[Porter56]

Another thing...

 

I just had a moment of truth or whatever you want to call it...

 

I spent the day by going for a run, hitting the gym, and then a pickup game of hockey at the local rink here. And now I'm going out...without taking a shower...lol j/k. Anyway I'm getting ready and my buddy says to me: "You have got to calm down".

 

I asked him what he meant and he asked if I always worked out before I went out and I said yeah. He said "you are wayyyyy too jacked up. It's like you're storming the beaches at Normandy. Bring that down a few levels. You're way too intense...it's gonna be scary"

 

I don't know,maybe he's right. I never thought about it actually. I just feel good after working out so I thought it could put me in the right frame of mind. Anyone else have thoughts on this???

[Versacehottie]

Another thing...

 

I just had a moment of truth or whatever you want to call it...

 

I spent the day by going for a run, hitting the gym, and then a pickup game of hockey at the local rink here. And now I'm going out...without taking a shower...lol j/k. Anyway I'm getting ready and my buddy says to me: "You have got to calm down".

 

I asked him what he meant and he asked if I always worked out before I went out and I said yeah. He said "you are wayyyyy too jacked up. It's like you're storming the beaches at Normandy. Bring that down a few levels. You're way too intense...it's gonna be scary"

 

I don't know,maybe he's right. I never thought about it actually. I just feel good after working out so I thought it could put me in the right frame of mind. Anyone else have thoughts on this???

 

The pheromones tonight could be a good thing--I guess we will find out. The amp'd up guy at the bar maybe not so much. LOL, your friend was funny.

 

Ok real deal. Going out without a shower can be a confident move. I know you were asking questions about confidence. I think Jabron or ff might want to chime in but with regard to this basically it's like a "f*ck it" attitude. That's not all of it. But I can get behind the no-shower thing, as long as you still look good and smell good. Lots of guys still do. I'm west coast though so maybe that's why I find this ok. Depends on the bar; you want to appear to be someone in the know without trying too hard--that again is why I don't mind the no shower thing--not trying too hard. But savvy enough to know the type of place he is going and not inappropriate.

 

I think the amp'd up guy, especially since you have girls on the mind and your friends are likely to try to help make that happen is maybe not a good thing. Try to dial it back and don't drink too much--just enough to loosen up and slow down, lol. No sloppies@!

 

I usually think guys have good energy after working out but if your friend thinks you seem like you are about to blaze normandy then you better dial it back :0

[Versacehottie]

Well I left town and went to my buddies place for the weekend to stay with him and his wife. We have all been friends since college and haven't seen each other in probably two years so it's nice to catch up. But anyway...

 

We stayed in last night had some beers and caught up and I went over my issues and they had some thoughts. These two have known me for 16 years so their input carries some weight.

 

The wife told me I shouldn't be so worried because when we first met she actually had a crush on me and so did most her friends. My buddy joked that I had to sleep somewhere else this weekend lol.

 

She also said that over the years when I would meet some of her new friends, about 8 out of 10 times in her estimation...the girl would privately express that she liked me but I wouldn't pick up on it or be very withdrawn and it would turn the girl off. She also said that whenever we had gone to bars/parties over the years she would notice at least 2 or 3 girls looking at me or clearly waiting for me to notice them. I was skeptical about this but she said "trust me I'm a woman I can pick up on these things"...she said "you're an idiot...women like you, a lot actually. You're just too much inside of yourself to notice or to take the initiative"

 

She said I can be too closed off. I am good at listening but I don't share anything of myself in conversations and it feels one sided,which kills rapport. Women hate that and it can kill attraction. She said to quit worrying about seeming weird for being yourself and just say what you think and feel.

 

She said "trust me you're attractive and when you open up you're one of the greatest guys to be around but too much of the time you're closed off and talking to you can feel like talking to a wall, even for us and we've known you forever"

 

So this is some good input I guess...although a lot of what she said did hit close to home and I know she's right. I feel kinda weird about what she said and in a way more nervous about going out tonight...

 

Well well, isn't that what some of us said? Ok good feedback from someone who knows and cares a lot about you.

 

And she also gave you evidence that several people that she personally knows including herself, were attracted to you. I'm telling you there are just some minor adjustments you need to make--don't take on a damaged label or feel inferior. This is not that big a deal.

 

In social stuff, you don't have to worry about being the best. Be your best, bring the best you and it will be the best match for someone. Probably more than one. Small steps. Just try to connect with people, be more approachable, more engaging. More back and forth. light-hearted and having fun and sprinkling that fun onto others and letting them do the same to you. lol Have a good night. report back!

[Porter56]

Ugghhhhh...

 

That is the sound of a hangover lol

[Porter56]

I don't know about pheromones and all but I have to take two showers a day personally. I'm very aware of hygiene, but that's just me...to each his own.

 

Sooooo.... I'll cut right to it and say nothing really happened last night. There weren't any women that seemed interested so I didn't really try anything. We met up with some of my buddy's friends and had a blast with them though. It was a fun night but it was all quiet on the women front.

 

After our 6th or 7th round of beers(I lost count lol) I did start talking about it a little and one of my friend's buddies teased me a little(good natured guy stuff).

What this led to was not good in hindsight but was hilarious at the time... I got into a mood of "who gives a f***"

 

I was drunk and stupid and didn't care so I started taking dares on who to approach and what was the most ridiculous thing I could say as an opener. Lol

 

One example: I walked up to a seriously gorgeous girl and looked her straight in the eye and pointed to myself and said "this is the face of the guy who is going to ruin your night" and grinned.

 

Okay...kinda obnoxious I know but we all laughed hysterically so whatever... I had fun.

[Audacious]

Wrong post in the wrong thread please remove it

[Versacehottie]

Ugghhhhh...

 

That is the sound of a hangover lol

 

ok at least it was fun:laugh:

[Versacehottie]

I don't know about pheromones and all but I have to take two showers a day personally. I'm very aware of hygiene, but that's just me...to each his own.

 

Sooooo.... I'll cut right to it and say nothing really happened last night. There weren't any women that seemed interested so I didn't really try anything. We met up with some of my buddy's friends and had a blast with them though. It was a fun night but it was all quiet on the women front.

 

After our 6th or 7th round of beers(I lost count lol) I did start talking about it a little and one of my friend's buddies teased me a little(good natured guy stuff).

What this led to was not good in hindsight but was hilarious at the time... I got into a mood of "who gives a f***"

I was drunk and stupid and didn't care so I started taking dares on who to approach and what was the most ridiculous thing I could say as an opener. Lol

 

One example: I walked up to a seriously gorgeous girl and looked her straight in the eye and pointed to myself and said "this is the face of the guy who is going to ruin your night" and grinned.

 

Okay...kinda obnoxious I know but we all laughed hysterically so whatever... I had fun.

 

*There weren't any women who seemed interested? ugh, missed opportunity. Ok, that is a good scenario for "practice". Low stakes since maybe you both don't care. Remember I said don't be so literal. It's like you want a straight path to a gf--that's not usually how it happens. You want an interested girl, be interesting. Like the life of the party in your own way. Use the night as ego boost night or confidence building night, not to meet the love of your life.

 

*good that you got into the mood of "who gives a f*ck" just make sure to keep it light-hearted and happy-go-lucky and caution about the obnoxious frat guy stuff (not that there's anything wrong with frat guys).

 

*glad you guys had a great time. sometimes that's just what is needed.

[preraph]

Going back to the title of this thread, from what I've seen over a lifetime with my friends and their husbands, women aren't nearly picky enough.

[Porter56]

What do you mean missed opportunity? There weren't any women interested.

 

You don't just walk up to a girl...you have to pay attention to signals like; she looks at you and you make eye contact with her and she smiles and holds it for a few seconds. Or a girl clearly checking you out or something.

 

Nothing was happening last night so it was a no go. And I am not looking for a gf. I'm just looking to chat up some women casually but none of them seemed interested. They were doing their own thing: preoccupied with their friends or on their phone or whatever...it's rude to interrupt. Unless you get drunk say things like...

 

"Hello ladies, don't worry I took my valtrex today" lol.... I totally said that.

[Versacehottie]

What do you mean missed opportunity? There weren't any women interested.

 

You don't just walk up to a girl...you have to pay attention to signals like; she looks at you and you make eye contact with her and she smiles and holds it for a few seconds. Or a girl clearly checking you out or something.

 

Nothing was happening last night so it was a no go. And I am not looking for a gf. I'm just looking to chat up some women casually but none of them seemed interested. They were doing their own thing: preoccupied with their friends or on their phone or whatever...it's rude to interrupt. Unless you get drunk say things like...

 

"Hello ladies, don't worry I took my valtrex today" lol.... I totally said that.

 

oh no^^^

 

and yes it's a missed opportunity to practice socially. you were told less than 24 hours before by your friend's smart wife that you are not good at reading clues. and perfect, the stakes are lower if you don't want a gf, you can chat up some women casually--just try not to swing all the way into obnoxious territory because you won't get good info on how to interact and what they truly think of you. you did kinda act like you have a chip on your shoulder by swinging all the way to obnoxious because "no women were interested". People at a bar are generally interested in socializing, casually, if it turns out to be more great. Adopt that attitude. no chip on shoulder.

 

You lose 100% of the chances not taken. or whatever that saying is. While you were getting drunk and saying silly things, some other guy was probably grabbing a few numbers. I have nothing against getting drunk and having a great time solely with friends. But you can multi-task too and if you are gonna break away from your group of friends to say things to girls at least try to have it be productive. or fun. or a connection of some sort.

 

It's funny I rarely recommend online dating or apps but you have such linear thinking maybe that would be better for you? It's like you can't wrap your head around the networking (friend/flirty type) or just increasing your social game for the sake that it will benefit you at some point. Wasn't it on the beginning of your thread that you complained about people who used checklists? online seems biased toward that sort and that linear mentality. Doesn't mean the other stuff you need practice in will go away though.

 

BTW, i did think you wanted a gf? Is that not true?

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Well eggs are limited, sperm is abundant

[Porter56]

What I mean is that I am not approaching women thinking: "she needs to be my gf"

 

I just want to chat about anything for few minutes and move on to someone else and network like you said.

I just always feel like when I'm talking to someone,guy or girl, I am bothering them or they're bored. And frequently people do look at me weird when I approach and try to start a conversation.

 

Interacting with people can be very torturous for me.

[Porter56]

Also if I approach a woman who shows no interest and I just try to make a casual comment to start a conversation it usually goes nowhere fast.

 

Example: I went up to this girl once who had a small tattoo on her shoulder of a certain band's logo. I happen to be a big fan of this band. I said something to the effect of I thought I was the only fan of that band in this place tonight (it was a country bar and the band she had the tattoo of was a hard rock group). She said "huh?" so I pointed to her tattoo and said I was a fan too. She saw I was pointing to her tattoo and she said "oh yeah....thats cool" and turned around with her back to me which is the international sign for "F*** Off"

 

That sort of interaction happens a lot to me.

[Porter56]

Anyway...my friends' wife is mad at me because she heard how I acted last night. Lol

 

She's not really mad but aggravated with me so she's taking me out to lunch and shopping at the mall and maybe the beach to try some socializing in these places with her and not with her " terrible influence idiot of a husband" <<<her words lol.

[Versacehottie]

What I mean is that I am not approaching women thinking: "she needs to be my gf"

 

I just want to chat about anything for few minutes and move on to someone else and network like you said.

I just always feel like when I'm talking to someone,guy or girl, I am bothering them or they're bored. And frequently people do look at me weird when I approach and try to start a conversation.

 

Interacting with people can be very torturous for me.

 

Good. But you are still only approaching if you feel that there is an attraction component visible noticeable from her and you are not good at reading signs. Plus maybe it would help to approach some girls that you don't see as gf material for you (not attractive to you) for an ego boost or practice making friends, getting your self-confidence up.

 

What I bolded is specifically a self-esteem issue/confidence issue. Much like the f*ck it that I was trying to explain; you need to assume you belong there as much as they do. And at a bar, people want to socialize.

 

Actually if someone is rude or dismissive like that girl with the tattoo, it should actually make you feel sorry for them if you have just been normal. And you are not going to be interested (as friends or anything else) in people who react that way. You DON'T take it on, let it ding your confidence and extrapolate it to all women, all social interactions--"no one wants to or likes talking to me".

 

Try to neutralize what is going on in your head and just get more adept at social skills. If you feel like you are disturbing a conversation, you need to come up with better ways to enter into a conversation not deduce that no one wants to talk to you. And I do think, while funny in some respects, that what you said last night was a defense mechanism with the girls you spoke to (chip!). Hey, fair enough, it would have been really hard with all those other guys now watching and chiming in. And I can see how humor would be some comic relief, on the other hand you don't want to be the clown and you do want to take opportunities of a night out with friends where there are a roomful of girls to further your goals. (not throw them away, like you don't matter, you do!)

 

Ok, have fun shopping. Though I'm a little worried: if you think girls are focused at the gym.....wait until you try to see if you've caught their attention while shopping ok but I do like a venue where the male to female ratio is going to be in your favor, so yay!

[Versacehottie]

What I mean is that I am not approaching women thinking: "she needs to be my gf"

 

I just want to chat about anything for few minutes and move on to someone else and network like you said.

I just always feel like when I'm talking to someone,guy or girl, I am bothering them or they're bored. And frequently people do look at me weird when I approach and try to start a conversation.

 

Interacting with people can be very torturous for me.

 

You are doing it here. And you have been funny, witty enough. Girls like funny.

[Jabron1]

Mate, flip the script and put yourself in these girls' position.

 

What would you think if a perfect stranger came over to you, and the first thing they said was 'Hi! I haven't taken my medication today '.

 

Would you think 'what a charming man', or 'what a bloody weirdo'?

 

So, you went over and made a ridiculous comment. Now I see no reason not to approach a woman and say something more normal. Just something simple like 'you look nice' would suffice.

 

Ok, have fun shopping. Though I'm a little worried: if you think girls are focused at the gym.....wait until you try to see if you've caught their attention while shopping ok but I do like a venue where the male to female ratio is going to be in your favor, so yay!

 

Every 'player' knows that where there are shops, there are women.

 

Oxford street in London is particularly notorious as a place for hitting on girls

 

Just say what you see, Porter. If she has a bunch of shopping bags with her, accuse her of being a 'shopaholic'. Tell her your mother warned you that shopaholic girls are big trouble

[Porter56]

The valtrex comment was just to make my friends laugh.

 

Yeah so my friend's wife made me spend the whole day with her. Lol Lunch, beach, shopping, and dinner. She made me talk to EVERYONE.

 

At first I was quiet and she gabbed a lot and kept trying to pull me into the conversation but I was hesitant. But she kept egging me on and I started opening up more. The hangover going away helped lol.

 

We started talking to anyone within a 10 foot radius. She called it the 10 foot rule. And she told me to make eye contact with EVERYONE. Smile and say hi and be engaging. I have to admit it was very uncomfortable but after awhile I wasn't even thinking anymore because she wouldn't give me time to. She just kept pushing me to the point where I didn't have time to think, I was just going and going.

 

At first, I would ask her how she thought I did with each interaction but she would just say that it doesn't matter and just kept going. I must have talked to at least 30 or 40 people. I didn't talk about anything really just small talk but I got used to it after like 5 hours of it lol.

 

Example: I saw a girl at a book store looking at a book and I told her not to read it because it's really boring. She asked why and I said because there's too many words and not enough pictures in it. She laughed and asked what would I recommend. I told her I only read things like "cooking for dummies, carpentry for dummies, badminton for dummies..." She laughed I said I only read books for dummies b/c I'm a dummy. More laughs and she said "that can't be true". I told her that it was but I was going to buy everything thing the store had for dummies and next week I'll be back to buy the genuis books because it shouldn't take more than a week to upgrade. She laughed and I told her my name and asked hers...it was Monique and I shook her hand and told her it was nice to meet her and hope she enjoyed her terrible book that had no pictures in it, more laughs.

 

Anyway it went ok and I got used to talking to a lot of people.

 

Wow my posts are too long lol. Sorry.

[Jabron1]

Yeah so my friend's wife made me spend the whole day with her. Lol Lunch, beach, shopping, and dinner. She made me talk to EVERYONE.

 

There's a woman that takes care of business

 

 

We started talking to anyone within a 10 foot radius. She called it the 10 foot rule. And she told me to make eye contact with EVERYONE. Smile and say hi and be engaging. I have to admit it was very uncomfortable but after awhile I wasn't even thinking anymore because she wouldn't give me time to. She just kept pushing me to the point where I didn't have time to think, I was just going and going.

 

Remember me telling you about the '3 second rule'?

 

Example: I saw a girl at a book store looking at a book and I told her not to read it because it's really boring. She asked why and I said because there's too many words and not enough pictures in it. She laughed and asked what would I recommend. I told her I only read things like "cooking for dummies, carpentry for dummies, badminton for dummies..." She laughed I said I only read books for dummies b/c I'm a dummy. More laughs and she said "that can't be true". I told her that it was but I was going to buy everything thing the store had for dummies and next week I'll be back to buy the genuis books because it shouldn't take more than a week to upgrade. She laughed and I told her my name and asked hers...it was Monique and I shook her hand and told her it was nice to meet her and hope she enjoyed her terrible book that had no pictures in it, more laughs.

 

Progress!

[Porter56]

Yeah in the moment it felt good but as I sit here tonight thinking about it I can't help but go over everything that happened and nitpick little things I said and did that I think sounded stupid.

 

Even reading my last post about the bookstore girl I feel dumb for the things I said. I don't really know why but I just hear the things I say in my head and think "what a douche" and the girl is just going along with it being nice hoping she doesn't have to call for help lol.

 

I am my own worst enemy I know...