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Damnitall

My wife and I will be married 8 years this October, and though like most couples we have had times that were a little rocky our marriage for the most part has been a good one. Now my problem has a few layers to it so bear with me, I have always had a little trouble holding down a job because I have very poor people skills. I work my butt off no matter what job I'm doing, but it always ends up boiling down to "we don't feel like you're part of the team." or "we have to let you go because your coworkers don't want to be around you." Because of this I've went through a handful of jobs in the almost ten years we've been together, and it's always cause some financial issues between us. We have three children together so for the majority of our marriage she has been a stay at home mom, while I've been the provider. A few months ago she was offered a job at a new plant that opened up about five minutes from our home, and she decided to take it, this was her first job in two years. Here is where the problems begin, ever since she has taken this job she has come home utterly exhausted almost every night. She complains all the time about how much the job stresses her out but says she has to stay because she can't trust me to be the provider anymore. Over the past few weeks she has been emotionally distant with me, she rarely shows any affection towards me and when she does it seems forced. Sex is almost nonexistent now, and any talk of therapy or marriage counseling from me causes her to brush it off and change the subject. To make matters worse, there is a man that was in the same new hire group with her, she used to talk about this guy frequently, and even made a point of telling me one day that he bought her lunch. A few days ago we had an argument about something and she barely speaks to me at all now. When I tried to discuss something with her this morning I must have said something that made her very angry and she glared at me and told me I was on a very fast track to being single, and since the argument a few days ago she doesn't speak of this other man at all now. I feel like there are red flags going up everywhere but I don't know how to talk to her about all of this without her getting angry with me again. Any advice?

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AMarriedMan
My wife and I will be married 8 years this October, and though like most couples we have had times that were a little rocky our marriage for the most part has been a good one. Now my problem has a few layers to it so bear with me, I have always had a little trouble holding down a job because I have very poor people skills. I work my butt off no matter what job I'm doing, but it always ends up boiling down to "we don't feel like you're part of the team." or "we have to let you go because your coworkers don't want to be around you." Because of this I've went through a handful of jobs in the almost ten years we've been together, and it's always cause some financial issues between us. We have three children together so for the majority of our marriage she has been a stay at home mom, while I've been the provider. A few months ago she was offered a job at a new plant that opened up about five minutes from our home, and she decided to take it, this was her first job in two years. Here is where the problems begin, ever since she has taken this job she has come home utterly exhausted almost every night. She complains all the time about how much the job stresses her out but says she has to stay because she can't trust me to be the provider anymore. Over the past few weeks she has been emotionally distant with me, she rarely shows any affection towards me and when she does it seems forced. Sex is almost nonexistent now, and any talk of therapy or marriage counseling from me causes her to brush it off and change the subject. To make matters worse, there is a man that was in the same new hire group with her, she used to talk about this guy frequently, and even made a point of telling me one day that he bought her lunch. A few days ago we had an argument about something and she barely speaks to me at all now. When I tried to discuss something with her this morning I must have said something that made her very angry and she glared at me and told me I was on a very fast track to being single, and since the argument a few days ago she doesn't speak of this other man at all now. I feel like there are red flags going up everywhere but I don't know how to talk to her about all of this without her getting angry with me again. Any advice?

 

What about doing something that doesn't require too much in the way of people skills?

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Sounds like your marriage is in big trouble. My stepfather had problems keeping a job. Mostly because he was lazy, arrogant, and didn't like being told what to do. After my mother had a couple of babies with him, his poor work ethic and irresponsible behaviour with money, kept them dirt poor and they even were evicted from their rental homes a couple of times. By the time they separated my mother had no respect or love for him. Every time she spoke to him or about him you could just hear the utter disdain she had for him.

 

It sounds like your wife has lost respect for you and that's a tough thing to come back from, especially if there is another man making her feel good. I'm not sure what to advise you to do. Normally marriage counselling would be good but your wife isn't interested. You could start counselling yourself and maybe when your wife sees you trying and changing she will join you.

 

You really have to work on whatever is making it difficult for you to stay employed. You didn't elaborate but I suspect that your not being a "people person" is some sort of code for " I don't behave well at work". I mean I don't consider myself a people person. I'm introverted and prefer to be on my own but I've never lost a job over this trait because I know when I'm at work I must be friendly and professional.

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If your wife is cheating it's not because of anything you did or didn't do. It's a choice she makes, regardless of what bullcrap she tries to feed you. All you can do is prepare for how you will react if she is... and all the markers point to that's what she's doing.

 

 

With regards to your work problems... that is serious. Have you considering going to individual counseling to work out what it is that's the underlying problem? Can you use your kids for motivation? Like 'I'm going to model how to hold down a job and be a good employee for them' type mentality? I know throughout my career that are plenty of times I felt like I was being fed crap and I just had to swallow it to stay employed... it part of life and the feeling doesn't last forever.

 

 

Plus if your wife is cheating, squaring yourself away is the very best thing you can do... because the day you find out for certain she is cheating will feel like one of the most devastating horrible experiences of your life. It's not unusual to feeling shattered into a million little pieces of yourself... I know I did.

 

 

Wishing you strength brother!

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lolablue17

Your situation is very complicated, but i would like to focus on one thing... If my wife would have threatened me with "If you ______ you're on the fast track to be a single", I would have made myself single on the same day. Threats turn me off immediately. Go to an attorney to find out your rights.

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She has lost respect for you. She is now taking your role. She is now tired and exhausted , not just physically but mentally as well. She has to worry about work , home , a husband and 3 kids. Give her a break dude, before you label her a cheater ! Duh

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Lois_Griffin
My wife and I will be married 8 years this October, and though like most couples we have had times that were a little rocky our marriage for the most part has been a good one. Now my problem has a few layers to it so bear with me, I have always had a little trouble holding down a job because I have very poor people skills. I work my butt off no matter what job I'm doing, but it always ends up boiling down to "we don't feel like you're part of the team." or "we have to let you go because your coworkers don't want to be around you." Because of this I've went through a handful of jobs in the almost ten years we've been together, and it's always cause some financial issues between us. We have three children together so for the majority of our marriage she has been a stay at home mom, while I've been the provider. A few months ago she was offered a job at a new plant that opened up about five minutes from our home, and she decided to take it, this was her first job in two years. Here is where the problems begin, ever since she has taken this job she has come home utterly exhausted almost every night. She complains all the time about how much the job stresses her out but says she has to stay because she can't trust me to be the provider anymore. Over the past few weeks she has been emotionally distant with me, she rarely shows any affection towards me and when she does it seems forced. Sex is almost nonexistent now, and any talk of therapy or marriage counseling from me causes her to brush it off and change the subject. To make matters worse, there is a man that was in the same new hire group with her, she used to talk about this guy frequently, and even made a point of telling me one day that he bought her lunch. A few days ago we had an argument about something and she barely speaks to me at all now. When I tried to discuss something with her this morning I must have said something that made her very angry and she glared at me and told me I was on a very fast track to being single, and since the argument a few days ago she doesn't speak of this other man at all now. I feel like there are red flags going up everywhere but I don't know how to talk to her about all of this without her getting angry with me again. Any advice?

Gotta be honest with you. It's REAL hard to respect - or have any faith - in a man who can't even hold down a job and continually puts his family in financial peril.

 

I don't blame your wife at ALL for taking a job because you're so undependable, and it's clear she resents you for it because she's still probably stuck doing everything at home that she'd been doing all along - except now she's working a 40 hour week on top of it. And it's all because you aren't mature enough to hold down a job as your need to thumb your nose at authority trumps your need to support your family.

 

And that really IS the bottom line.

 

Mikeylo is right - she's been forced to take the man role AND the woman role. I wouldn't hang around for that bullsh*t either.

 

You want advice?

 

Man the hell up and do what you're supposed to do and keep your mouth shut at work.

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What are you doing at home now that you're out of a job? Are you taking over all the housework and childcare, or is she having to do that in addition to working full time?

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d0nnivain

What are you doing to improve your people skills? You have known for some time that this is a problem. Correct it. Get counseling. Get job coaching. Do something.

 

If she sees you making an effort, even while she is the consistent breadwinner, things might improved.

 

Improved people skills would also give you greater & clearer communication to address the problems in your marriage.

 

If you want to keep your family together, take steps to do just that.

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thefooloftheyear

So wait a minute......I'm confused....

 

In the other thread, it was determined by most of the women that its ok for a guy to not be the provider and breadwinner, being a SAHD was good and noble, and that people should work as a team, but now its not??

 

So she stayed at home as a SAHM, now he can't and she lost respect for him??

 

Don't understand??

 

TFY

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MidwestUSA
So wait a minute......I'm confused....

 

In the other thread, it was determined by most of the women that its ok for a guy to not be the provider and breadwinner, being a SAHD was good and noble, and that people should work as a team, but now its not??

 

So she stayed at home as a SAHM, now he can't and she lost respect for him??

 

Don't understand??

 

TFY

 

I think the difference is that the issue was forced. If OP had, and/or was able to maintain a good job, but gave it up because his wife was WILLING (and prepared) to do the same, that's another story. It's a team decision. Here she feels forced to work, and is exhausted and stressed, because he's unable to.

 

Just my impression. And yes, I know what it feels like.

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My wife and I will be married 8 years this October, and though like most couples we have had times that were a little rocky our marriage for the most part has been a good one. Now my problem has a few layers to it so bear with me, I have always had a little trouble holding down a job because I have very poor people skills. I work my butt off no matter what job I'm doing, but it always ends up boiling down to "we don't feel like you're part of the team." or "we have to let you go because your coworkers don't want to be around you." Because of this I've went through a handful of jobs in the almost ten years we've been together, and it's always cause some financial issues between us.

 

What's your employment situation just now? Are you in work, but in a tenuous situation?

 

You mention that there are a few layers to this situation, and I'm guessing that there's maybe a bit more info to come out before people can give you advice that's really geared to your situation. Has anybody ever been more specific, in expressing concerns about your people skills, than "you're not a team player"? What kind of problems tend to emerge? Are they to do with timekeeping skills? Absenteeism? Falling out with people? Difficulty in taking instructions? Do you know what employers/colleagues have meant, when they've criticised your people skills?

 

If poor people skills, in this situation, translate as poor relationship skills generally then there might be a lot more to the emerging difficulties between you and your wife than simply the fact that she's taking over a provider role. So for instance, if you're not an easy person to be in a relationship and she's put in a lot of effort over the years to maintain the family unit as a well functioning and healthy thing, then I think it would be too much or her to also take over the provider role. Generally in a situation where one partner stays at home and the other works, I think there's going to be a strong element of the stay-at-home partner being the nurturer. The home maker. Regardless of gender. Some couples go against traditional stereotypes, with the man being the more nurturing of the two and the woman being the go-getter/successful breadwinner.

 

If you're not bringing either of these aspects to the table, then you're going to be more of a problem than a partner by this point...and your wife is going to be exhausted by having to compensate for you not having strengths in either of these areas - and to improve the situation, you're going to have to improve either as a breadwinner or as a stay at home nurturer, supporter and home-maker. But this is all speculation on my part. You said that up until now you have had a good marriage. What do you think has made your marriage good up until now?

Edited by Taramere
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d0nnivain
So wait a minute......I'm confused....

 

In the other thread, it was determined by most of the women that its ok for a guy to not be the provider and breadwinner, being a SAHD was good and noble, and that people should work as a team, but now its not??

 

So she stayed at home as a SAHM, now he can't and she lost respect for him??

 

Don't understand??

 

TFY

 

He's not a SAHD because they sat down & decided together as a couple that he'd raise the kids because she worked. He can't hold down a job so she had to give her being a SAHM so she could provide steady income. Then he got annoyed because after a 40 hour work week she was tired. That is the problem.

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WantingToLeave

Were you ever tested for Asperger's Syndrome? Sounds like you may have it. If so you can go to specialized therapy to help with it and they also have social skills classes you can take. Go see an educational psychologist and schedule testing.

 

I have a nephew who has Aspergers and he has had a really hard time getting along and fitting in. All his life he has had problems.

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thefooloftheyear
He's not a SAHD because they sat down & decided together as a couple that he'd raise the kids because she worked. He can't hold down a job so she had to give her being a SAHM so she could provide steady income. Then he got annoyed because after a 40 hour work week she was tired. That is the problem.

 

 

So what, though....

 

I know plenty of guys that were forced to work harder because they had wives that couldn't get or stay gainfully employed...I even know some guys that had to work harder or take extra hours because their wives simply refused to go to work....

 

And it doesn't read as though he got annoyed because she was tired....He got annoyed because she seems like she lost respect for him and is becoming angry, resentful and passive aggressive....She is basically sticking it in his ass because he has trouble holding a job...

 

Is that right??

 

TFY

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achtungbaby
This is a continuation from my prior thread.

 

I sat my wife down yesterday afternoon when she got home and told her I was filing for divorce and moving out. So it is done, and I am hugely relieved.

 

I will be moving into my apartment at the end of this month. Till then I will be staying at the fire station at night. I'm moving some belongings into storage today and tomorrow.

 

We have not yet told our two youngest daughters. We probably will tonight. My oldest daughter is coming over to be with the youngest when we do. The extended family and in-laws do not know yet either

 

What was her reaction?

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Lois_Griffin
So what, though....

 

I know plenty of guys that were forced to work harder because they had wives that couldn't get or stay gainfully employed...I even know some guys that had to work harder or take extra hours because their wives simply refused to go to work....

 

And it doesn't read as though he got annoyed because she was tired....He got annoyed because she seems like she lost respect for him and is becoming angry, resentful and passive aggressive....She is basically sticking it in his ass because he has trouble holding a job...

 

Is that right??

 

TFY

She's lost respect for him because she's been forced to take on a DOUBLE role in the family that she shouldn't have to take - and not because of him losing his job due to the economy but because he can't control himself and show respect to his boss so he keeps getting fired. And it happens over and over, so the common denominator is the OP, not a never-ending string of butthead bosses.

 

It's the same principle if we reverse the situation - say he came home from work every single night to a filthy house, unfed screaming children in dirty diapers, no dinner on the stove, no clean clothes to wear, no milk or food in the fridge, and complete filth and chaos everywhere he looked - and his wife is a stay at home mom.

 

He'd be forced into a role he didn't sign up for - housekeeper, cook, laundress, responsible parent, and the list goes on. After working all day he'd have to come home every single night and pick up HER slack because she dropped the ball and didn't do it.

 

You'd better believe he'd resent her and lose respect for her after being forced to take this role on all because she dropped the ball and for no other reason.

 

Just like the OP keeps doing dropping the ball because he can't control himself and gets himself fired.

 

Same exact principle.

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thefooloftheyear
She's lost respect for him because she's been forced to take on a DOUBLE role in the family that she shouldn't have to take - and not because of him losing his job due to the economy but because he can't control himself and show respect to his boss so he keeps getting fired. And it happens over and over, so the common denominator is the OP, not a never-ending string of butthead bosses.

 

It's the same principle if we reverse the situation - say he came home from work every single night to a filthy house, unfed screaming children in dirty diapers, no dinner on the stove, no clean clothes to wear, no milk or food in the fridge, and complete filth and chaos everywhere he looked - and his wife is a stay at home mom.

 

He'd be forced into a role he didn't sign up for - housekeeper, cook, laundress, responsible parent, and the list goes on. After working all day he'd have to come home every single night and pick up HER slack because she dropped the ball and didn't do it.

 

You'd better believe he'd resent her and lose respect for her after being forced to take this role on all because she dropped the ball and for no other reason.

 

Just like the OP keeps doing dropping the ball because he can't control himself and gets himself fired.

 

Same exact principle.

 

 

Where does it say she is doing everything.....Did I miss it?? Is he just sitting home watching porn and playing X box while the kids need care?

 

Meh...Either way, its clearly obvious....

 

I don't care what the "new" relationship roles/rules are...If a guy can't pull his weight and be the heavy, the woman gets resentful and loses respect....Seen it a million times in my own personal circle of friends/family..But guys have been doing it for eons...With little to no resentment..."Its a man's job", right??:laugh:

 

Heck, I know a guy that works like a dog, they have no kids, yet she wont work.,....and all he really cares about is that she looks good...Go figure...

 

And you know what?? That's OK!...Just don't be a hypocrite(not meaning you in particular), but if the only way a guy can be a non producer or provider in a marriage, is by some series of conditions that clearly suit the woman, then its really not a fair deal.

 

TFY

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wmacbride

What is your current hoe life like/ how are the responsibilities shared now that you are not working?

 

Have you always been like this- getting hired then losing the job, or i this something new sine you got married?

 

I would agree that getting yourself some counseling would be a good idea. it will build your confidence back up in yourself and get at the root of why your employment situations have been so tenuous.

 

if working in a group setting just isn't a good match for you, is it possible for you to find a job where you work on your own or work from home? What are your interests? Can you parlay them into a job or maybe go back to school so that you will be able to do so?

 

A marriage is first and foremost a partnership, and right now, one of the partners-you- is struggling. your wife should not be taking this out on your but rather, she should be helping you find solutions. Have you tried sitting her down and explaining why you are not a "people person" and asking her to support you in your effort to either learn new interpersonal skills for a job or adapt your career path to suit your given personality?

 

This is one fo those times when " for better or worse" applies. Right now, you are experiencing some of the worse, and need her support, just as you would support her if she needed it.

 

As for her sudden coldness, I would hazard a guess that she is doing the ws dance of trying to make you look bad in her eyes so she can justify her interest in another man, at least to herself. She'll convince herself that you deserve it, and off she'll go, sans guilty conscience.

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So wait a minute......I'm confused....

 

In the other thread, it was determined by most of the women that its ok for a guy to not be the provider and breadwinner, being a SAHD was good and noble, and that people should work as a team, but now its not??

 

So she stayed at home as a SAHM, now he can't and she lost respect for him??

 

Don't understand??

 

TFY

 

I did specifically ask what he was doing at home. There's a difference between being an active SAHD and just being... at home.

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I did specifically ask what he was doing at home. There's a difference between being an active SAHD and just being... at home.

 

That's the thing. There's just not enough info in the original post to know. It's not even clear whether he is unemployed just now...or if it's more the case that he is employed but that due to the history here his wife doubts his ability to hold onto the job for long.

 

The problem, as he's perceiving it, is that his wife is no longer affectionate and he suspects she has feelings for/involvement with a guy she works with. He's fearful about what the future holds for his marriage (and family cohesion) but doesn't know how to talk to his wife about this without making matters worse.

 

An obvious way to address that difficulty is for him to suggest marriage counselling. If he has, as he says, got very poor people skills at the best of times, then his fear about making things worse by trying to talk about this to his wife is a very real and valid one. It's a discussion that would likely be best conducted in the relatively safe environment of marriage counselling...with a skilled and able counsellor who, rather than criticising him, will focus on the strengths as well as the drawbacks of their respective personalities and why they've hit this patch where the partnership is starting to fail very seriously.

 

Marriage counselling isn't guaranteed to save his marriage, but it might be the start of him understanding himself better and learning how to make his particular personality work better for him (and for other people around him, who he's supposed to be working with rather than against towards common goals).

 

But I suspect if he's very much a doer rather than somebody who contemplates and mulls over situations like this, he'll already have lost interest in this thread and moved onto something else...and counselling could be a struggle for somebody like that, who perhaps just wants to focus on clear, speedy "fixes" rather than spending too much time analysing and trying to understand the situation he's in in a manner that employs emotional intelligence rather than scientific "facts and figures" type logic.

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And it doesn't read as though he got annoyed because she was tired....He got annoyed because she seems like she lost respect for him and is becoming angry, resentful and passive aggressive....She is basically sticking it in his ass because he has trouble holding a job...

 

Is that right??

 

TFY

 

Becoming angry, resentful and passive aggressive might well be the consequence of her being tired as a result of taking on too much here. Too much in terms of trying to provide for the family as well as continuing the role of emotional nurturer. If the OP's people skills are poor, in order to keep the marriage functioning as a (on the face of it at least) a good one for 8 years, she's probably had to work overtime in developing traits such as patience, tolerance, supportiveness etc. Now they've hit this block where things are not working any more - and she seems to be losing interest in the marriage.

 

He could read your post and decide "I agree with TFY here. I think he's hit the nail on the head...." and then reiterate the views you're expressing to his wife. "I think you're angry, resentful and passive aggressive..." In other words, she rather than he is the problem. That's a perfectly natural response for anybody to have in this situation. They feel under attack (spouse withdrawing affection, threatening "you might find yourself single soon") and so they would go on the counter-attack. The end of his post suggests that this is precisely what he's afraid of. That if he tries to talk about this to her, it's just going to worsen rather than improve matters. If he takes your assessment of the situation as advice, and goes in determined to let her know she's being passive aggressive and unfair....how is that likely to work out for him?

 

Of all the posters on this thread, you might be the one who is currently viewing his situation in the most sympathetic light. Potentially your advice could be particularly useful to the OP, because you are also an experienced employer. Presumably there are times you have had to let employees go because they weren't fitting in well to the team. So you're sympathetic to the OP. Less so, perhaps, to his wife - but you're probably in a good position to put yourself into the shoes of the various employers who have let him go in the past.

 

Moving on from your assessment of the likely underlying dynamics, what advice would you give him to improve his situation?

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thefooloftheyear
I did specifically ask what he was doing at home. There's a difference between being an active SAHD and just being... at home.

 

Here is what we know...

 

-He has 3 little kids..

-He lost his job and had a hard time holding one down....

-He was the provider/breadwinner for the time she stayed at home, now she goes to work and is treating him like crap and threatening him with another man or divorce,,,

 

Not singling anyone out here, but why does it mean he is just sitting home doing nothing??..Some posters even assumed that she was doing everything despite no evidence in the thread to suggest it....Because with all of the venomous posts and finger pointing(at him) it sure seems that all the posters were doing is assuming he is a nobody because he has had a hard time holding down a job..

 

Why cant the woman become the heavy then(without all the resentment and vitriol) ?? Isn't that what a marriage is supposed to be?

 

Bottom line....Women generally don't look favorably at a guy that can't work or earn,,,,Its as simple as that, so lets all cut the bullshyt here...

 

TFY

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Here is what we know...

 

-He has 3 little kids..

-He lost his job and had a hard time holding one down....

-He was the provider/breadwinner for the time she stayed at home, now she goes to work and is treating him like crap and threatening him with another man or divorce,,,

 

Not singling anyone out here, but why does it mean he is just sitting home doing nothing?

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that, which is why I asked. Like Taramere says, the OP is far too vague to assume anything. We do know that the OP's wife was a SAHM previously (which means doing the majority of the housework/childcare), we don't know if he's being a SAHD or if he's just being unemployed.

 

.Some posters even assumed that she was doing everything despite no evidence in the thread to suggest it....
It is fairly well known that in general, women still do more housework and childcare than men regardless of earning capability. So while we don't know, it is a potential possibility.

 

Why cant the woman become the heavy then(without all the resentment and vitriol) ?? Isn't that what a marriage is supposed to be?
I don't know any man who is being the breadwinner while doing 100% of the household chores and childcare (not saying that the OP's wife necessarily is, just that it's a possibility). Do you?

 

Bottom line....Women generally don't look favorably at a guy that can't work or earn,,,,Its as simple as that, so lets all cut the bullshyt here...
It's not as simple as that. If the OP were truly doing all the work of a SAHP and his wife was treating him like this, I'd say she was in the wrong. If she has a preference for a breadwinning man, fine, but that doesn't excuse the way she's treating him. It merits discussion, not contempt.

 

If the OP was not doing any of the SAHP's work, then her behaviour is much more understandable. No human being can do 100% of the breadwinning AND 100% of the childcare/housework while their partner does neither of the above, without accruing a huge amount of resentment.

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thefooloftheyear
I

 

It's not as simple as that. If the OP were truly doing all the work of a SAHP and his wife was treating him like this, I'd say she was in the wrong. If she has a preference for a breadwinning man, fine, but that doesn't excuse the way she's treating him. It merits discussion, not contempt.

 

If the OP was not doing any of the SAHP's work, then her behaviour is much more understandable. No human being can do 100% of the breadwinning AND 100% of the childcare/housework while their partner does neither of the above, without accruing a huge amount of resentment.

 

I know a lot of people and most of them are men...Without any declaration or discussion, there isn't a single one that if left home while their wives had to work, would not do their very best to take care of the kids and keep things clean and tidy around the house...do the laundry, etc...

 

This scenario happened to a good friend of mine...He got laid off due to a disability...Not only did he do all of those things, he completely restored the house they live in and put a small addition off the living room..And this guy is a tattooed up biker type who made his living as an iron worker...

 

So of the guys you know, if put in that situation, how many would just hang around the house in their pajamas all day and leave the house a mess and the kids unattended to??

 

TFY

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