Annoyed tonight...just pondering....

[Daisy2013]

I am trying to become indifferent. I have started finding new interests such as working out every day. I tell myself it wasn't real and I am nothing and am stronger than this; to pull my head out of my rear end.

 

If I ignore him, he is offended, and gets upset. Comes up and tells me he loves me and that I'm "his love." But his story remains the same. "I have to play house and pretend because I have to be an example for my grown children (they are not even his wife's kids) and so many people have expectations of me." Image thing here. Wants to look good to everyone. He'd rather look good to everyone but the one whom he says he loves.

 

I say BS.

 

He wiped down with Clorox wipes after being with me. He'd put tissue in his underwear in order to prevent "evidence" from showing through his pants when he got home; check his clothes for makeup and ask that I not wear any when with him; watch the clock like a hawk. Told me once if I left him he wouldn't chase me at this age and stage of his life, although he did when I went radio silent one time.

 

That he loved me before we ever got together. BS. And he lights up when he sees me.

 

Sorry, I'm just lamenting this evening, wondering how I could be so stupid and have so little respect for myself. This isn't love. Can't be. Makes no sense. But, it does make sense, if one thinks of it logically.

[SomethingToSay]

It makes perfect sense. He loves you in your role as his side chic. He has no desire to divorce and be with you fully. He loves having you...in the role you currently are in. He will do alot to keep that going as is.

 

And you stay in it for the "love" I guess?

[bewell]

It's an awful vicious cycle. I wish I knew how to stop it. It's hard. Resist the urge and distance yourself. Hopefully through this you'll make some sense out of it. Stay strong.

[whichwayisup]

Is your affair over or still on going a bit and limited contact?

 

If you two were meant to be, you'd both be divorcing your spouses and be together. But, from what you've said and what I recall about your situation, it's not 'love', it's lust and addiction.

[Daisy2013]

I know that full well and it haunts me all of the time. I left, he found me. It's on his terms and I don't rock the boat. Problem is, his words of adoration get stuck, instead of hearing his reasons of why he can't leave and run. He professed his love to me when I was in a really bad place and that is why I think I'm stuck. I can't get past of how special I felt and those feelings of being brought back from the dead, and meaning something to someone. And he says the same and that he doesn't want to lose our friendship. But, I feel deep down he keeps me so he won't hurt me because he is a major conflict avoider. One reason he's so miserable at home. He won't do a thing that will cause strife because he doesn't like it. He won't even drink a beer (or even a non-alcoholic one, and he likes those) because his wife doesn't like it. And that is why he won't leave. He will not do anything that upsets the apple cart. But, when I ask him him if he wants me to go, he says "No, I love you, we need to work this out." I have no idea what that means because nothing changes and he hates conflict. Unless it has all been a lie and I've been duped. And that is my own fault. I share the fault 100%.

 

My friend says I am afraid of abandonment and that is exactly what scares me to let go completely.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Daisy2013

[georgia girl]

 

He wiped down with Clorox wipes after being with me. He'd put tissue in his underwear in order to prevent "evidence" from showing through his pants when he got home; check his clothes for makeup and ask that I not wear any when with him; watch the clock like a hawk.

 

Gently, this is just plain offensive. This man is doing everything possible to ensure that his wife doesn't find out about you and it's way too polished. Who even thinks of this stuff?! Please for your sake, do everything you possibly can to fall out of love with him. This is not healthy.

[SomethingToSay]

May I ask, were you abandoned or abused or neglected by a parent as a child? Im just trying to understand what would cause an adult to be completely powerless in the face of loving words that are so clearly not backed by the neccessary actions.

 

Im so sorry you are hurting and hope you could get some counseling to help realize you are worth much more than this.

[Daisy2013]

Actually, his profession is one that is methodical (not accounting) and he is very precise and thinks very logically. I guess it is why he does those things re cleaning up. It has worked for almost 5 years for him. He won't even speak to me for the most part if she is around because she will ask him why is he talking to me (or even if she sees him laughing with anyone and ask him why is he acting like that and being immature).

 

Maybe so. My mom is sorta borderline or histrionic something per books I have read or have been told by a counselor friend, so one has to walk on eggshells at times, never knowing when she might go off. My dad is quite narcissistic (or has those tendencies) and really hasn't been part of my life or shown much interest. But I've been trying and will be a good daughter to him regardless of how he acts. I call and keep in touch these days - he is out of state. They have been divorced since I was a kid and hate each other.

 

Strangely, the friend of mine who is a family counselor told me that she is amazed how strong I am and have turned out well, considering all that I grew up with, but that I have abandonment issues and thats why I can't let go.

[Grapesofwrath]

\

My friend says I am afraid of abandonment and that is exactly what scares me to let go completely.

 

Daisy: Please don't be so hard on yourself. Most people are afraid of abandonment. Abandonment is a lousy thing. So your resistance to ending it doesn't make you some deeply flawed person with massive issues. It makes you simply human. You can manage it, though.

 

When he says you can "work this out" what he means is that he can manage you back into a position where you will accept the crumbs he offers and not make trouble for him.

 

He is definitely a conflict-avoider, as most MM are. Another word for conflict avoider is coward. He's a coward. A weak coward. You're right. It's not love. Not even close, honey. There is better out there for you.

[NTV]

Based on what you've said it has all been a lie. How much better would you feel with a man who was PROUD to be with you? That wanted the world to know you were with him?

 

Why let him keep you a secret? Aren't his sweet sounding lies bad enough insult?

 

In this life how many chances do you get at happiness? Do you really think you can find it here?

 

But who am I? Just a stranger on the Internet.

[BuddyX]

I've said it before, don't confuse "alone" with loneliness. Have some self worth. You were not put on this earth to be a side piece.

 

And in regards to your MM, I've left this quote quite a few times.

 

"They all say its guilt, kids, blah blah.

 

Translation: I don't want everyone to know what a selfish ass I am. I want to keep my money and maintain the status quo.

 

If they felt guilty about their affairs and their kids, why are they spending time away from their kids in bed with an OW?

 

i wonder how many times we forgive someone just because we don’t want to lose them"

[Bufo]

Professional predator/cheater? The Clorox, tissue and no makeup aren't something he just dreamed up. (Although I have no idea why his wife doesn't question why he smells like bleach). At least he hasn't insisted that you shave your head bald so no stray hairs are ever seen!

 

How do you communicate with him? If via text or email, ask to check his phone. I'll bet you that every message has been erased. You exist only when he wants you to exist. And it appears that you make few, if any, demands on him. He's got a great thing going and of course he doesn't want to lose it

 

Does this relationship ever dare to go outside your place?

 

Words of adoration cost him nothing. What does he do to SHOW you he cares for you? You know he is not getting divorced since he told you he isn't. Give him credit for that, if nothing else.

 

BEtrayed spouses are often advised here that the first thing they must do is

to get out of infidelity. I think that advice has equal applicability to you. End this A before he and it drive you crazy.

[Daisy2013]

Thank you all for your replies. I do not know how to multi-quote, so I just answer what I can remember in order not to have multiple threads, so if I miss a question, I apologize. And below I'm just rambling things as they've been coming to mind, sorry!

 

No, he is a white collar professional and I hope not a serial cheater. But, lately, I've been wondering where he got the idea of the tissue and Clorox wipes. He says he can't go home smelling like me. I'm in a box. He says men think differently and compartmentalize, so that when he isn't with me, he is able to live life. That one made me feel good!

 

Re if our A has ever left my place. He doesn't come here. Although I have driven to his work location and we've had lunch. We have several meet up locations. Our A has never left his vehicle, where we meet. 5 years. NHell, one place is full of empty dumpsters, and I tell myself I'm his "dumpster girl," and certainly have to be worth more than this.

 

The only thing he does to show me he cares is to call every day. He knows I appreciate it. But again, only on his way to work and sometimes on his way home. Rarely on the weekends, but has on occasion, if he were alone running errands. Usually, the W goes, as he says she rarely lets him out of her sight. Texts are rare and general in nature. He says what goes up is always retrievable. Yes, I am erased after each call/text. He's advised me to do the same.

 

All I have are his words that he loves me and that I brighten his life and we are friends before anything else. We were friends years before this A started. Writing here helps, thank you. All of these thoughts (cleaning, compartmentalization, dumpsters, etc.) have started flooding my brain a few days ago and are overtaking the "love." These things are making me feel there really isn't any, or at least, nothing sustainable. Because if I walk, he has said he wouldn't chase me at this stage of his life.

 

He says to hold onto hope and dream for our future. Ha, when would that happen. Unless his W leaves him or passes away, it won't. She won't leave. She's not happy either, but has it made as he is the breadwinner. He says before they were married her ex-husband asked him to speak with him so he could tell her what she was really like. And her brothers said she was a selfish cold person. He says he is sorry he didn't speak to them so has to lay in his bed he made. Last time we talked of holding on to our dream, he said the W's mom lived into her 90s, so doesn't see her passing away soon (she's 65, he is 61 and I am 50).

 

This would be his third D, so he refuses to go through another. His grown kids (they don't have kids together) are in relationships and he wants them to see what commitment is since he and their mom divorced, so another major reason he won't leave. She wasn't even nice to his kids when they were growing up, so go figure.

 

I'm not as stupid as I seem here! Other areas of my life are fine. I've raised 2 great daughters who are succeeding in college and are strong and loving. I have a great paying job. I've just lost my mind here.

[TaraMaiden2]

Multiquote:

Take a look at the posts you want to quote from: Down in the bottom R/hand corner are some symbols.

One of these is a sheet of paper with a speech-mark and a plus sign.

Single-Click this on all the posts you wish to reply to. (scroll....)

They will turn orange, with a 'minus' sign. That's ok.

Once you've clicked them all, hit ''Post Reply'.

A comment box will open up - containing all the selected posts.

Starting from the top, delete the parts of the post you don't need, until you're left with the bit or bits, you wish to reply to.

Post your response immediately after the

bracket at the end of that particular quote.

 

Do this with all the quotes you've got.

 

Sorted.

[NTV]

I've just lost my mind here.

 

 

 

It sucks to feel like you've lost your mind. I know what that's like. So what are you going to do to regain control?

 

 

You say you have daughters, would you want them in this situation?

[privategal]

"Our affair never left his car"

"One of our meeting spots is surrounded by dumpsters, I am his dumpster girl"

"This would be his 3rd D..."

Oh dear...oh dear...Im speechless.

[Dancewithme]

I am glad the other thoughts of the Clorox wipes, compartmentalizations, car and dumpster-area hookups are starting to overtake your thought of " love". You are starting to see that this is not love, it is disrespectful and disgusting.

 

I'm sorry, wiping down after being with you with Clorox wipes?!!! That stuff is not for skin, let alone private parts. It's for hard surfaces, and you are supposed to wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling them. They are for disinfection and cleansing. Are you some kind of toxin that has to be disinfected?

 

You are a human bring who deserves love and respect, and deserves to be with someone who doesn't have to disinfect themselves after being with you. Someone who can be with you outside of a car, and away from dumpsters. And you call yourself his " dumpster girl"? Really?? What would your daughters think of this?

 

I'm sorry, I tried to hold back when I first read that, but it seems so illustrative of the crap folks will put up with while in a relationship with a person who is married. Crap that no one deserves.

 

This is neither friendship nor love. I am glad it's starting to nag at you. I think if he can't have your "essence" on him, then he doesn't need to be in you. Let him go, find someone who deserves you. Someone without a wife to answer to.

[Bufo]

The venue for the trysts, the history of divorces, and the daily devotional phone calls make me further suspect that this isn't his first rodeo.

 

Wow,,I've heard the description of accepting crumbs. You aren't getting crumbs, but are only allowed to look at the picture on the food package.

 

It's your choice but what type of future do you see with him? And if it's not the future you want for yourself, why are you still where you are? He's not going to change.

 

What happens to you if the police happen by and take exception to your expressions of love in the dumpster park? What if your daughters found out?

 

I have real problems,seeing any positives in this. Have you seen somebody to learn why you accept this treatment?

[Grapesofwrath]

Daisy, honey, no. Just no. You mentioned that abandonment is an issue for you, but please consider how you have abandoned yourself in this situation. You are not showing up for yourself. It starts with you. Show up for yourself.

 

A visualization that sometimes helps: Imagine the you that is in the affair as a smaller, younger you. Then imagine your current self as an older, wiser you. A big sister, if you will. Visualize that kind, gentle older sister putting her arm around her younger sister and gently, but firmly, guiding her away from something that is hurting her. Do this for yourself. Gently, but firmly, guide yourself away from this situation. Stop abandoning yourself.

 

We are here waiting for you, too.

[Daisy2013]

Thank you for your continued responses and support. It has been very difficult acknowleding "what is" vs the delusion in my head for the past 5 years. To answer if it were my daughter, I'd beat her silly (not really "beat" her, but I would be relentless until she walked away) and get her into therapy.

 

We are supposed to meet at a store this evening. We share an interest (which his W does not), so we will at times meet there to see what is on the shelves. Of course, he walks 2 feet away, but will reach out to tap my shoulder or back as we walk along. That is my "public hug." This is the "friends" activity, recall he insists we are friends first, before anything else.

 

Tonight I will tell him I need to move on. It is time. I am certain he won't mind. In fact, it will give him peace. He has standing in our church and often struggles with guilt, but wanting to keep me.

 

One last thought. Once, not too long ago, he drew an imaginary line across the door of his truck. Pointed out that I was below that line, and named all of the things that were expected of him above that line. I should have accepted that from him and walked at that moment. The next week, when he asked to meet, I reminded him of what he had said and the line, and he said I misunderstood and that he loves me, and was right there with me below that line. Ugh, I hate these memories flooding my mind.

[TaraMaiden2]

Thank you for your continued responses and support. It has been very difficult acknowleding "what is" vs the delusion in my head for the past 5 years. To answer if it were my daughter, I'd beat her silly (not really "beat" her, but I would be relentless until she walked away) and get her into therapy.

 

We are supposed to meet at a store this evening. ...

...Tonight I will tell him I need to move on.

 

I have a better idea.

Tonight - don't turn up.

I mean it.

This is not complicated.

 

Do not turn up, and block all avenues of contact.

Do not communicate with him further. At all.

 

 

One last thought. Once, not too long ago, he drew an imaginary line across the door of his truck. Pointed out that I was below that line, and named all of the things that were expected of him above that line. I should have accepted that from him and walked at that moment. ...

 

Yes, you darned well should have done.

All the more reason to do it now.

Trust me, your absence will speak volumes, particularly as he will also no longer be able to contact you to find out why you won't be showing....

[BuddyX]

Do not see him. You'll be taking 2 steps back. And please don't give me "closure" crap. Have some self worth.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Daisy....I agree with the others. Do not meet him tonight. Block all modes of contact. Instead research IC in your area.

 

A thousand cuts....you have allowed yourself to lose your self respect by a thousand cuts.

 

The internal messages that you allowed yourself to receive from this interaction (it is not a relationship) have been so toxic that a complete, full stop has to implemented so that you have the necessary emotional reserves to find where all these negative messages rooted themselves in your psyche. It will require your full attention on you.

 

I do so hope that you can take the first step in putting yourself first.

[Grapesofwrath]

Daisy....I agree with the others. Do not meet him tonight. Block all modes of contact. Instead research IC in your area.

 

A thousand cuts....you have allowed yourself to lose your self respect by a thousand cuts.

 

The internal messages that you allowed yourself to receive from this interaction (it is not a relationship) have been so toxic that a complete, full stop has to implemented so that you have the necessary emotional reserves to find where all these negative messages rooted themselves in your psyche. It will require your full attention on you.

 

I do so hope that you can take the first step in putting yourself first.

 

Always is right. Stop the cycle now. This is an opportunity to take a stand and stop betraying yourself by allowing this to continue. Try to imagine how awful you are going to feel as a result of this interaction. You will be filled with self-loathing. You have a chance to change that right now!! Love yourself enough to step away from this vampire of a man.

 

In an earlier post, you referenced some issues from your childhood that may be the root cause of this. That may be true. But before you can really examine those issues, you must address the crisis at hand. Take immediate action and remove this malignant person from your life. And block all forms of contact to protect yourself from his response. It doesn't matter how he feels about it. All that matters is you.

[NTV]

Thank you for your continued responses and support. It has been very difficult acknowleding "what is" vs the delusion in my head for the past 5 years. To answer if it were my daughter, I'd beat her silly (not really "beat" her, but I would be relentless until she walked away) and get her into therapy.

 

 

 

 

So why would this sentiment apply to your daughter but not yourself?

 

 

 

 

I do think that at some level you're using him almost as much as he's using you. But if you want to be with someone that's all about control, there's PLENTY of single guys out there that can do that for you. Same goes with being degraded.

 

 

There are plenty of single dangerous guys that can offer excitement. Or risk.

 

 

If that's your thing, and you like it, then that's your decision. You're adult enough to make it. Hell, I don't like country music. Some folks do. To each their own, I say. But this isn't a choice of finding someone to degrade you. This is helping a guy feed his wife s*** hidden inside some pudding.

 

 

Are you really the kind of malicious person to go along with it?

 

 

You don't need a reason to stop doing the wrong thing. You just stop because it's wrong. Just like you don't need a reason to do the right thing. The right thing is reason enough itself.

 

 

'Course this is just my opinion. And probably also a little bit of standing on a soapbox. Hell, you've got kids yourself, so you know where that comes from, lol.