Cell phone question [updated]

[elaine567]

I did have a heart to heart and told him what I suspected.

 

BIG mistake he is now on alert and will take this affair underground, he may even find your VAR and will be on his best behaviour in the car

 

He won't really discuss it with me and says I have a mental illness and Im not enjoying what I have which is a faithful husband. and he gets furious if I try to push the discussion further. .

 

Its called gaslighting.

 

I can't handle not knowing the truth.

You will never find out the truth the way you are handling this. Edited June 13, 2016 by elaine567
quote

[yepsurething]

 

BIG mistake he is now on alert and will take this affair underground, he may even find your VAR and will be on his best behaviour in the car

 

 

 

Its called gaslighting.

 

You will never find out the truth the way you are handling this.

 

what should I be doing? I'm not going to talk to him about it anymore, haven't in a few days, and I"m just trying to just be happy with him. I really dont know what else to do. I've suspected for months that something was off.

 

[elaine567]

Unknown

 

Love you too, XXXX. And I am proud of you for many reasons. Your kindness and gentleness, your intelligence, and sense of humor. Lots more that I can't put into words.

 

Mom

Something important to tell you about: when I was deep into depression these words were given to me: "I matter" & "I have value". I don't need an answer from you on this. Love.

 

Son, You're on my mind a lot. Please keep in touch. I love you, Mom

 

Hi XXXX , just watched a utube video, "welcome to Navy boot camp". OMG. I can't imagine you going through that.....but you did. Did you wear a yellow tee shirt? It looked very stressful. You did it. Talk to you soon.... I'm proud of you.

 

I'm glad you called today. I've missed you. Love you, XXXX

 

Completely different styles, IMO.

 

The suspect one, IS very suspect, and lest you forget "deleted" ie hidden. Would a son really delete that text from his Mom?

[elaine567]

what should I be doing? I'm not going to talk to him about it anymore, haven't in a few days, and I"m just trying to just be happy with him. I really dont know what else to do. I've suspected for months that something was off.

 

YOU keep gathering evidence and pretend to him that you have swallowed his story and that you ARE being "mad" and crazy.

YOU need him to relax again so that he slips up and then after you have the real evidence in black and white, you then hit him with it.

He may still gaslight you, but you will then KNOW he is cheating and you can work from there.

YOU don't need to convince him he is cheating, all you need to do is convince yourself.

[merrmeade]

BIG mistake he is now on alert and will take this affair underground, he may even find your VAR and will be on his best behaviour in the car

 

Its called gaslighting.

 

You will never find out the truth the way you are handling this.

omg I am SO amazed at seeing my gullibility repeated so many times.

 

Look, somebody really needs to sit you down, look you in the eye and go over every detail of what you're seeing and explain in detail that - regardless of whether it's physical or not - it ALREADY IS INAPPROPRIATE and you have every right to demand that he not have that relationship.

 

First of all, have you read "Not Just Friends" yet? If not, it's a must-read yesterday. It will explain how this kind of phenomenon is happening over and over in today's busy society where men and women work closely together, have constant access to communication with each other and justify their expanding closeness as "just friends."

 

In my case, they (my husband and sister-in-law) insisted to everyone else they were best friends / family. I was gone months on end and so to me they hid everything - even the best friends part (just like your husband) because, as she said later, I "wouldn't have been comfortable with it." There were thousands of calls and texts over a couple of years, loving emails that shared everything about their health issues, finances, children. She'd greet him with motherly kisses on the head when I was around. The tone of the written communication was sometimes longing, sometimes teasing, always concern and investment well beyond 'just friends' or even extended family. He'd get the kids to go in with him to buy her birthday presents (perfume). He often uses the word "flattery" when he refers to why and how such a thing gets started.

 

But BECAUSE they were so close, they had "slips," you see, "accidents." These were when she'd give him massages and, well, things would heat up - but they actually tried to convince each other they were inconsequential and didn't negate the "90% friendship." They allowed the PA for a few months, then decided to go back to best friends and she actually continued the indignant denial well beyond the day my husband confessed to me. He never had any illusions that it was wrong.

 

He ALWAYS agrees now and said to our children when he confessed to them - you should ONLY be best friends with your spouse.

 

You are uncomfortable with his closeness with her. THAT is enough; he should respect it and cut it off and/or share it ALL with you. period.

[merrmeade]

However, maybe it's too late for asking that. I think I agree that you should let him relax and do some different sleuthing. Have you gone through all the bank records, credit card statements, wastebaskets, browser history (all browsers, all computers), facetime chats and whatever other things he does online? The statements show where he's been and what he spent money on. Did you look at days and times of all calls and texts? Did you sort the calls and texts by phone number to see how many there were to what number every month?

[yepsurething]

However, maybe it's too late for asking that. I think I agree that you should let him relax and do some different sleuthing. Have you gone through all the bank records, credit card statements, wastebaskets, browser history (all browsers, all computers), facetime chats and whatever other things he does online? The statements show where he's been and what he spent money on. Did you look at days and times of all calls and texts? Did you sort the calls and texts by phone number to see how many there were to what number every month?

 

yes, I've looked at bank records and credit cards. He does have cash dealings and there is no way for me to know anything about that.

 

I have checked garbage cans, the car, (there was a coffee cup under the passenger seat one day, I asked him about it, and he said cause he forgot his thermos he had to use that. Seemed weird to me since he usually buys circle k coffee and has the plastic cups in the car, and why was it under the passenger side? when I asked him he said 'why do you put yourself through this'?

 

so was that overly suspicious days after I found he was carpooling (that he lied about ) with a woman to ask why a cup was under the seat?

 

I've looked at what I can on his phone cause he deleted everything claiming work was looking at phones.

 

over the years I get the feeling sometimes that he's lying and it makes me crazy, so that's why I snooped this time and was shocked that he would lie.

 

He's a top government trainer supervisor and everyone thinks he's so moral and good, that's why I do feel guilty or maybe wonder if I'm seeing things clearly or with an irrational jealous wife brain.

[merrmeade]

Oh ****, I cannot believe the parallels with my history. The carpooling: my husband did that. This was a long time ago but he didn't tell me there were only two of them in the carpool and they ended up in bed together. Also, in my situation he was considered a hero, someone who made personal sacrifices for the greater good, and I felt that I would be the one question if I didn't treat him that way. I know now that I was lied to . I was gaslighted.

 

You need to understand gaslighting. Gaslighting involves intimidation, rhetorical question, red herrings , all manner of tricks, arguments, and mannerisms to put you on the defensive. It sounds like your husband is more careful .

 

But, honey, you're having such a hard time with this. So let's just go for a minute with the approach that he is "just friends" (Which I don't think it's true but since you have no proof you have to go from that premise at the moment). But even that – you can approach your husband, you have every right As his wife and partner to say that you are uncomfortable with that relationship and you would like to have that closeness with him. If he has a problem with that then you need marriage counseling. You need to give him ultimatums. And individual counseling would do you a lot of good to get your self-esteem up and your sense of personal entitlement. This is my opinion from my personal experience and from being on LS for a while. Something needs to change for you.) I'm sorry I can't edit this better and hope it's clear. I'm doing it on the iPhone )

Edited June 13, 2016 by merrmeade

[Lobe]

However, maybe it's too late for asking that. I think I agree that you should let him relax and do some different sleuthing. Have you gone through all the bank records, credit card statements, wastebaskets, browser history (all browsers, all computers), facetime chats and whatever other things he does online? The statements show where he's been and what he spent money on. Did you look at days and times of all calls and texts? Did you sort the calls and texts by phone number to see how many there were to what number every month?

 

If you can see the deleted messages, can't you see the number of the sender?

[yepsurething]

If you can see the deleted messages, can't you see the number of the sender?

 

it says number not available

[Lobe]

If you cared about each other enough , you wouldn't be here , both of you ...

 

it becomes a sickness when it replaces sexlife ; and even if it is a sickness , partners should help each other in sickness ; or do you expect him to ditch you too if you are sick ?

 

What did you do to help him ion his sickness ?

 

or are you avoiding to seduce him assuming that if you do he will be more addictive ?!

 

ANy partner , Any , could cheat if he/she don't find his emotional and physical needs satisfied ;the conservative ones goes to EA most of the time , at the end it is cheating still.

 

don't misunderstand me , i am not saying that this is Ok , I am saying that we are human , we do mistakes especially when become vulnerable .

 

YST, this is a prime example of the latter half of "take what you need, leave the rest."

 

What I am hearing is a suggestion that a betrayed spouse is at fault for their partner not saying, "I'm unhappy so I'm going to leave you and find someone who loves me better," BEFORE they get involved in an affair. I'm not even sure where to start with the flawed logic here.

 

First, I disagree wholeheartedly that people do not care about one another if they find themselves in an affair. I disagree wholeheartedly that a WS stops loving his wife when the AP shows up. I disagree wholeheartedly that it is the BS fault that the WS strays because of not meeting the WS's needs. And I disagree wholeheartedly that watching porn is a sickness. This entire post smacks of "It's her fault for not putting out," which according to the OP wasn't really a problem until the suspected EA/PA began. My husband didn't stop hitting on me until he found someone who responded in a more desirable way. But a prostitute would have said yes, too. Doesn't mean she'd make a better mother to his children.

 

Second, to blame the BS when porn is involved is a gender-biased assumption against females, because porn isn't an outlet for women the same way it is for men. You basically called women c*ckteases if they don't have sex on demand. WTH? For whatever it's worth, affairs, even physical affairs, are NOT about sex, even when there is sex involved. It's about how the AP makes the WS feel, including sexually desirable. Based on that, I'm going to dismiss the comment about porn because I've read enough studies showing that a healthy portion of men who claim to be sexual addicts are merely medicalizing their own bad judgment in the hopes it absolves them of being accountable. Then everyone is supposed to feel bad for them instead of judging them for lacking self-control. If WH was "sick" he should have asked for help from his wife or a counsellor, NOT started boning his coworker.

 

You say a marriage is like a garden but it sounds more like you believe it's a garden the wife needs to tend so her husband doesn't go off looking for greener grass. It takes two to make a marriage strong, two to let the gaps appear, two to heal it, yet only one to break the vows. Blaming the BS for not meeting the WS's needs is like blaming someone for getting raped. "She was asking for it."

 

OP needs to look at how the time and space developed in her marriage for an affair to happen. It's not going to be her fault alone - her WH is every bit as much as fault, including making a decision to not confide in her when he felt he was not feeling admired or getting enough sex instead of finding someone else to fill his dish with little feel-good nuggets. Being accountable for the marriage faltering is a joint effort; being responsible for the decision to engage in an EA or PA is a selfish, one-sided decision on the part of the WS, including revenge affairs.

 

From what I've read, WSs and APs (who aren't on Ashley Madison looking for a hookup and sociopaths/narcissists who feel no remorse or regret) are often surprised they are in the affair, and it takes a lot of self-delusion to develop a story about how what you're doing isn't wrong. Good, kind, people convince themselves they are entitled by using exactly flawed line of thinking displayed here. Affairs often develop because it's convenient and exciting, that's it. They don't want to hurt or leave their spouse. In fact, they rarely do, whether the affair is discovered or not.

 

If the OP's husband is in fact having an an EA or PA, he will have to do the work to figure out why he strayed instead of investing back into his marriage as much if not more than the OP will need to examine where the gaps were in the relationship that she and her WH will need to work to fix, together.

 

Please don't make excuses for affairs. They are never justified.

 

YST,

 

Have you spent any time reflecting on when you first noticed a distance growing between you and your husband? Was there stress? A family emergency? A tragedy? Or more of a gradual fade? Was he acting strangely in the months leading up to his suspected affair? Think back to what's been going on - finances, work, etc. and see if you can identify what was leading up to this. When and why did he start training? Why didn't he invite you to go with? Were you guys dating or just being a family?

 

I agree with other posters here who have said you need to lay off the interrogation - you're tipping your hand and he will get better at gaslighting the further underground you push the affair. Maybe you want to try wooing him instead. That was how I KNEW something was rotten in Denmark - when my husband started turning me down not only for sex, but for holding hands, going on dates, watching a movie together... So maybe try wooing him. If he freaks out on you, call his bluff and tell him you're not happy anymore and you'd like a trial separation.

[Lobe]

it says number not available

 

Is your MIL paranoid? Why would she have her cell number blocked on her son's phone?

[sfd'swife]

I'd say he's definitely hiding something. The fact that he's being so secretive and protective of his phone speaks volumes. My husband and I don't check each other's phones, but we know we are welcome to at any time. His behavior is sending up some red flags.

[Jersey born raised]

As we know only what has been shared by you, we cannot truly advise you. That said I suggest a part of a living in a loving marriage is not allowing your spouse to live in doubt and fear. So either way his behavior is not of a concerned husband.

 

Assume your marriage is over and study your divorce laws on line State Specific Divorce and Custody Information - Divorce Source. Accept there will be huge changes and build a mind set of what your life will become. Once done you feel stronger as you now have a plan B. Having a plan B gives a sense of strength and confidence going forward.

[yepsurething]

well, I got to listen to another recording. there was definitely something going on with the women I suspected, I heard him talking but then it gets loud.

 

anyone know how to get background sound out.

 

he calls her by name when talking to his friend, says she was always a pain in the ass and then starts to talk about when a women likes you....and it cuts out.

 

don't know if it's more serious or not. sounds like he's done with her?

 

the recorder I have only seems to pick up part of the day, it has 8 hours worth of recording but only picks up about 2 hours worth?

[VeveCakes]

It should only turn on when they are talking.

 

Try hiding it in another location? Maybe tape between the head rest and the seat if you can shove it in there?

[yepsurething]

I have it under the seat currently. Its very loud with music playing and window noise.

 

I'll try placing it somewhere else. wish I could just get rid of the outside noise.

 

the car is tan and it's hard to hide the recorder cause it's black.

 

=(

[VeveCakes]

The radio and windows are a definite problem, is it under his seat?

[merrmeade]

anyone know how to get background sound out.

Hard to do without distorting the sounds you do want. If you want to try it on Audacity, which is a free download, PM me and I'll give you the steps.

[Lobe]

There is software that can clean it up a bit but not much.

 

Is there any way you can slip it into the headliner? Cut a small opening and slide it in there?

[yepsurething]

Hard to do without distorting the sounds you do want. If you want to try it on Audacity, which is a free download, PM me and I'll give you the steps.

 

I did download it, but I can't figure it out from there =/

[yepsurething]

There is software that can clean it up a bit but not much.

 

Is there any way you can slip it into the headliner? Cut a small opening and slide it in there?

 

heading out now to try to find a better hiding place.

 

I'll look in that area. thanks.

[Lobe]

Good luck.

[Midwestmissy]

This is breaking my heart, because the behavior here is exactly what I went through. To the poster who said the op was pathetic, this woman has every alarm in her body and brain going off. That's not paranoia, that's her body telling her that something is way off. It doesn't lie. When I see a mouse, my body tenses up in fear - can't control it, no matter how many people tell me it's irrational. The phone, the accusations of being crazy - ugh, I'm so sorry.

 

I actually started throwing up very regularly when my husband started his affair (which I wouldn't find out about until almost a year later). And my previously loving husband looked at me on the bathroom floor and told me I was a delusional drama queen who was unstable. Yet, he had no issues leaving a crazy wife in charge of the kids. He never suggested giving the drama queen wife a break. He called me unstable while he texted away and hid his cell phone. He was so uncharacteristically cold and mean, I just got sicker. It was horrific abuse. After 20 plus years of a beautifully easy and trusting relationship where we both had complete transparency. It was a horrible time. All of that for ego strokes from a mouth breathing loser for a few months. Hes horrified by what he did.

 

I wish I had acted less rashly - it gave him fuel for his fire. Be calm, and if possible, see a therapist to guide you through this. The problem with work affairs and stay at home wives is the arrogant condescension they throw at you - every odd piece of evidence has the noble plausible excuse of hard work attached to it. While you, pathetic woman with too much time on your hands with a cushy job, get to be home and fabricate these fabulous soap opera scenarios and he is working his tail off. Hah. All my h and his ow did was poop where they ate and put the whole family business at risk for a lawsuit. Not real noble.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Midwestmissy
Not enough coffee yet

[elaine567]

The problem with work affairs and stay at home wives is the arrogant condescension they throw at you - every odd piece of evidence has the noble plausible excuse of hard work attached to it. While you, pathetic woman with too much time on your hands with a cushy job, get to be home and fabricate these fabulous soap opera scenarios and he is working his tail off.

 

Yes, I feel that this is the dynamic that is being played out here too.

 

OP

I feel you need to separate yourself from this almost total reliance on your husband financially.

I see you do not have a car, remedy that immediately, you do not want to be reliant on him for transportation, get a beat up truck for the farm, a tiny mini, anything, just start getting some more independence. You may need that if one day he just ups and leaves for his OW. If you cannot drive then get lessons and learn fast.

I would also start cutting down on your animals, or streamlining things, so that the farm is more manageable with or without his financial input. If your stay at home job is not that profitable, seek out other employment/another business model.

He may not leave, he may just like having two women, but sometimes the lure of a less complicated life is appealing and if the OW is insistent, then some men will just up and leave, leaving chaos in their wake.

YOU have had warning and even if he is totally innocent here, I think this is a wake up call.

Your position as a stay at home Mom makes you very vulnerable.