Cell phone question [updated]

[Poutrew]

YST, I just want to say to be careful of him. If he is still looking for the way you found out about his hijinks, He may try to install a keylogger onto your computer. Especially if he sees you pounding on it all the time. Do not assume he is a dunce with electronics. If he breaks into your computer, the jig's up... good luck.

[elaine567]

So he deleted everything? He's likely got a burner phone now.

 

I agree and this is what happens when you alert people who are up to no good, they just take it all underground.

This is not about "love" this is about survival and not wanting to be caught.

Every time he is confronted, he just acts even shadier IMO.

 

"Ok, so you want total transparency? Here is my well scrubbed and empty phone, feel free to look at anything you like... I am totally innocent of all accusations..."

 

Something to think about. Gaslighting

Tactics Used by the Gaslighter

 

 

• Discrediting you by making other people think that you’re crazy, irrational or unstable.
  
• Using a mask of confidence, assertiveness, and/or fake compassion to make you believe that you “have it all wrong.” Therefore, eventually you begin to doubt yourself and believe their version of past events.
  
• Changing the subject. The gaslighter may divert the topic by asking another question, or making a statement usually directed at your thoughts, e.g. “You’re imagining things—that never happened!” “No, you’re wrong, you didn’t remember right.” “Is that another crazy idea you got from your (family member/friend)?”
  
• Minimizing. By trivializing how you feel and what you think, the gaslighter gains more and more power over you, e.g. “Why are you being so sensitive?” “You don’t need to get angry over a little thing like that!” “I was just joking around, why are you taking things so seriously?”
  
• Denial and avoidance. By refusing to acknowledge your feelings and thoughts, the gaslighter causes you to doubt yourself more and more. For example, “I don’t remember that, you must have dreamt it!” “You’re lying, I never said that.” “I don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re changing the subject.”
  
• Twisting and reframing. When the gaslighter confidently and subtly twists and reframes what was said or done in their favour, they can cause you to second-guess yourself—especially when paired with fake compassion, making you feel as though you are “unstable,” “irrational,” and so forth. For example, “I didn’t say that, I said _____” “I didn’t beat you up Johnny, I just gave you a smack around the head—that’s what all good fathers do.” “If you remember correctly, I was actually trying to help you.”
  

[MadJackBird]

I agree and this is what happens when you alert people who are up to no good, they just take it all underground.

This is not about "love" this is about survival and not wanting to be caught.

Every time he is confronted, he just acts even shadier IMO.

 

"Ok, so you want total transparency? Here is my well scrubbed and empty phone, feel free to look at anything you like... I am totally innocent of all accusations..."

 

Something to think about. Gaslighting

 

Yup. I suggested Gaslighting a while back.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

Yep, your husband's behaviours sounds like a cookie cutter version of my WH's during his A. I feel like your husband's actions while you are on holidays is more like him building up your trust so that when he is finished he can go back to her (them?) Don't light a match...

 

My heart aches for you - I found evidence of my husband's affair in living colour within seconds of finally deciding to ask him about it. Trust your instincts on this - he will slip up sooner or later. I mean, you're sitting here in a pool of people who have seen it ALL to give you advice where to look - if there is something to find, it'll get found.

[S2B]

yes, my post has gotten off topic, and at this point and the fact that Ive been with this man for 18 years and we raised 6 kids together he should have given me his phone. he didn't, he erased he phone before letting me see it, and now I really don't trust him because he should have just let me see it in the first place if he wasn't hiding anything. My feelings are more important than his privacy, just as his feeling would be more important than my privacy,

 

and really I can't even believe I questioned whether or not I should be able to see his phone. seems so obvious now.

 

But, you see, your feelings are not more important than his privacy - to him.

 

When a person has nothing to hide - they hide nothing. You don't have anything to hide but obviously your husband does and will continue to do.

 

The question really is: can you live with your husband and stay married knowing he intends to hide things from you - at the expense of hurting your feelings?

 

He knows he's hurting your feelings - yet it doesn't bother him. I would have a HUGE problem being with a man like that - but maybe you feel differently...

 

I hope you can find some peace of mind - you deserve to be treated better than what he's doing.

 

Keep checking - he's bound to slip up and show his truth.

[yepsurething]

so my husband is back to work.

 

of course this makes me worry but I'm still using the VAR and listening.

 

He left his phone untouched almost the entire 11 day vacation.

 

its scrubbed clean so why bother, but he used to be a textaholic and couldn't put his phone down.

 

our kids even noticed dad wasn't sucked into his phone all day and night.

 

we had a couple of arguments about what I heard him say, and he still won't be honest so thats not making this easy for me but mostly we tried to bond and connect.

 

I have a key logger on his computer and he's looking up how is my wife recording my calls and he goes to work early so he can make calls on his office phone now because he's worried I'm recording him.

 

he even called his mother from his office phone and told her his cell wasn't working.

 

I know my MIL hates me and when this all started he was in contact with her about being depressed and I think I'm pretty sure he blamed me.

 

sad looking back that he was calling me abusive for 'prying' and 'snooping' and 'not trusting' when he was lying all along. his depression was lying and having to come home and face us.

 

I feel pretty anxious and upset, not sure where to go from here as I know he is lying.

 

I had a place scrub some audio and it still pretty scratchy, but what I make out is

 

friend- Did you convince her is was business and not sex with XXXXX?

 

husband- No, that ship has sailed, but her reaction has been great though. Lots of sex.

 

friend- Wow.

 

the word that is most scratchy is sex... any one want to listen to my audio clip. it's a minute long.

 

=(

[merrmeade]

It's been hard to help you, dear, mainly because you were revealed your cards so soon and more than once. It sounds like now you really are focused on getting the evidence, right? You know he's lying. It seems you are convinced now. Logic makes it irrefutable. The problem is he's on to all the things you've tried.

 

So if that is the case, it sounds to me like you have only a few options left – if finding out unequivocably is what you want. I guess the first is to continue with the VAR and see if you ever get something or he figures it out - whichever happens first. The second would be a polygraph test. Doubt he would agree to that, however. The third, and probably the least traceable and the most reliable and productive it seems to me, would be hiring a PI. They are professionals in doing what you've been attempting halfheartedly and mostly unsuccessfully. People who've done that and reported up-to-date developments on here got results in less than a week from what I've seen.

[VeveCakes]

This sucks. Keep recording and see what else you get. He can only hold it for so long.

[rester]

friend- Did you convince her is was business and not sex with XXXXX?

 

husband- No, that ship has sailed, but her reaction has been great though. Lots of sex.

 

friend- Wow.

 

I hope this works out for you but in the meantime, are you still having sex with him?? I agree with others that you need to keep quiet, and I don't have any personal experience with infidelity so my advice may not be the best, but if I were in your shoes, sex would be off the table completely.

 

It sounds as though your husband feels he has gotten away with it and believes that if you think he is cheating on you, that he gets more sex out of it.

[Lobe]

I feel pretty anxious and upset, not sure where to go from here as I know he is lying.

 

I had a place scrub some audio and it still pretty scratchy, but what I make out is

 

friend- Did you convince her is was business and not sex with XXXXX?

 

husband- No, that ship has sailed, but her reaction has been great though. Lots of sex.

 

friend- Wow.

 

Oh, Yep. I'm so mad for you!!!! Are you ready to consider divorce? If not, then you need to force a d-day. Can you not look up these women at his work and contact them directly? Even if you look crazy, it sounds like he's playing the field there and one of them will have the info you want/need. You could hire a PI to do it too. Whatever the case may be, I think perhaps it's time to put on your big girl panties and go to whatever extremes needed to get the truth you so desperately deserve, though I pretty much think it's a foregone conclusion at this point.

[yepsurething]

Ok, yes, we've been having lots of sex. I know it seems like I wouldn't want to be with him, but I have this deep need to bond and be with him physically.

 

really if I felt he was being truly open I feel like I could forgive and move on, but I just feel like there are still lies, and he swears NOTHING happened with him and ANY women.

 

he says all the stuff that was said was stupid guy stuff and that Im ruining our marriage over nothing.

 

the weird thing he does is this, just before he tells me he's done nothing, and there was no relationship of any kind he tells me to remember how he felt for the last 2 years and how he's felt since March. and then reminds me we had troubles. (he apparently had some sort of thing in march where he no longer cared what I thought, another reason he let possible flirting happen)

 

then he tells me how innocent he is. I ask each time, if you are innocent and nothing has happened why do you keep telling me how you stopped caring and weren't happy? what doest that have to do with anything?

 

seems like he's telling himself he was unhappy and thats an ok for him to lie or cheat.

 

about 2 years ago our oldest daughter lost her kids to CPS and I've been helping her with that ever since. Well my husband has hated the time I've given to my daughter and her 3 children (our grandkids) and has complained the whole time telling me Im neglecting him our kids our house etc. and yes, there has been some 'neglect' if you can call putting time into other family members neglect.

 

well the interesting thing is, that he was flirting with the lunch date women at the exact same time these troubles started with my grandkids and I have to wonder if part of why he doesn't give a darn about our daughter or her kids is because he's been preoccupied with these outside flirtations the whole time.

 

and now today, we are days away from having our foster family meeting and he starts to yell and scream and tell me I'm ruining our lives and our kids lives by taking in our grandkids because it will make us more poor.

 

YES!!!! we will be more poor, but it's my grandkids. my kids at home 15,14 and 12 are fully supportive of having them here. I can't fathom the idea of not taking them in. they will be adopted to strangers.

 

and we will get financial help as well as my daughter will send money to help with her kids.

 

well this started a huge fight where he about lost his mind. he was on the phone with me and he was telling me he was going to kill himself all over me believing lies.

 

wouldn't he be relaxed if nothing really happened? would he really go crazy and talk about killing himself because I'm believing a lie? I mean he did lie about a bunch of stuff, so shouldn't he understand I'm not going to just believe him about this, especially considering the things he's said?

 

I keep going back to the fact that he even talked to this women to 'end' things. I mean if nothing was really going on and your wife has a flip out do you even bother telling someone who there was nothing going on? why would he bother?

 

thanks for the continued talk about this. it does help.

[Lobe]

and now today, we are days away from having our foster family meeting and he starts to yell and scream and tell me I'm ruining our lives and our kids lives by taking in our grandkids because it will make us more poor.

 

YES!!!! we will be more poor, but it's my grandkids. my kids at home 15,14 and 12 are fully supportive of having them here. I can't fathom the idea of not taking them in. they will be adopted to strangers.

 

and we will get financial help as well as my daughter will send money to help with her kids.

 

well this started a huge fight where he about lost his mind. he was on the phone with me and he was telling me he was going to kill himself all over me believing lies.

 

Whoa. Your husband is unhinged, Yep. If he's willing to threaten suicide because he is busted (and clearly he knows you're on the cusp of finding the proof you need) and you are about to bring 3 grandchildren into your home, that's a lot going on. My guess is that he is trying to manipulate you by making you scared to keep digging but if not then you're probably smart to put him on suicide watch - has he ever talked about self-harming before?

 

I'm not even going to lie - I'm surprised you never mentioned this before. Bringing grandkids into the house when your your youngest is already 12 may in fact be a HUGE factor in the situation. NOT in justifying it, but in understanding it. Bringing toddlers into the house now would be a game changer for anyone, I think. For me personally, the thought of having babies in the house sounds like a fun way to spend an afternoon not another couple of decades. Did you discuss bringing the kids in or was it a unilateral decision on your part?

[yepsurething]

we did discuss it, and it's not a long term thing, just until my daughter is able to get her requirements completed for the court.

 

I had a miscarriage about 4 years ago, so if the baby hadn't died we'd have a toddler of our own running around. not super important I guess, but just that my hubby was fully excited about that baby when we found out I was preggers. Its taking care of someone besides us he doesn't like.

 

I mean we have 6 kids, so it's not like we had a quiet family life, and really, our adult kids and other grandchild are here often enough and like I said, we have 3 kids still home. plus, our other adult kids have said they will take the little kids so we can get breaks from it.

 

 

I do get its a big deal, obviously not something he's in to. Sad, because if he goes, so do my grandkids. how do I go on after that? I don't think I'll qualify to care for them alone.

 

and he does threaten to punch (sometimes does) himself or hurt himself when we argue. Sure ends the fight, cause he's big and scary and I just end it.

 

moments like this I wonder why I bother.

[Lobe]

I had a miscarriage about 4 years ago

 

I'm so sorry to hear this, Yep. Hugs to you - I've miscarried too and know how painful it is.

 

moments like this I wonder why I bother.

 

I kind of think that you bother because of what you are afraid to lose - financial stability, the home you love, the ability to care for your grandchildren, etc. I honestly think right now that if there was a way to leave, you would. You're afraid of your husband, he's probably cheating on you, he makes you feel bad about taking care of the family he helped create, he openly mocks you to his colleagues and friends... I think you're stronger than he gives you credit for, though. I think you need to talk to a lawyer and get some numbers and hard data to work with because when you finally do bust him (which I think is inevitable at this point) he is going to lose his sh*t and if you are fostering your grandkids, it could cost you them as well as your own.

 

If this was one of your kids talking about their spouse, what advice would you give them?

[ChickiePops]

Your husband truly sounds mentally unwell. Would he go to counseling if you suggested it?

[MadJackBird]

Ok, yes, we've been having lots of sex. I know it seems like I wouldn't want to be with him, but I have this deep need to bond and be with him physically.

 

really if I felt he was being truly open I feel like I could forgive and move on, but I just feel like there are still lies, and he swears NOTHING happened with him and ANY women.

 

he says all the stuff that was said was stupid guy stuff and that Im ruining our marriage over nothing.

 

the weird thing he does is this, just before he tells me he's done nothing, and there was no relationship of any kind he tells me to remember how he felt for the last 2 years and how he's felt since March. and then reminds me we had troubles. (he apparently had some sort of thing in march where he no longer cared what I thought, another reason he let possible flirting happen)

 

then he tells me how innocent he is. I ask each time, if you are innocent and nothing has happened why do you keep telling me how you stopped caring and weren't happy? what doest that have to do with anything?

 

seems like he's telling himself he was unhappy and thats an ok for him to lie or cheat.

 

about 2 years ago our oldest daughter lost her kids to CPS and I've been helping her with that ever since. Well my husband has hated the time I've given to my daughter and her 3 children (our grandkids) and has complained the whole time telling me Im neglecting him our kids our house etc. and yes, there has been some 'neglect' if you can call putting time into other family members neglect.

 

well the interesting thing is, that he was flirting with the lunch date women at the exact same time these troubles started with my grandkids and I have to wonder if part of why he doesn't give a darn about our daughter or her kids is because he's been preoccupied with these outside flirtations the whole time.

 

and now today, we are days away from having our foster family meeting and he starts to yell and scream and tell me I'm ruining our lives and our kids lives by taking in our grandkids because it will make us more poor.

 

YES!!!! we will be more poor, but it's my grandkids. my kids at home 15,14 and 12 are fully supportive of having them here. I can't fathom the idea of not taking them in. they will be adopted to strangers.

 

and we will get financial help as well as my daughter will send money to help with her kids.

 

well this started a huge fight where he about lost his mind. he was on the phone with me and he was telling me he was going to kill himself all over me believing lies.

 

wouldn't he be relaxed if nothing really happened? would he really go crazy and talk about killing himself because I'm believing a lie? I mean he did lie about a bunch of stuff, so shouldn't he understand I'm not going to just believe him about this, especially considering the things he's said?

 

I keep going back to the fact that he even talked to this women to 'end' things. I mean if nothing was really going on and your wife has a flip out do you even bother telling someone who there was nothing going on? why would he bother?

 

thanks for the continued talk about this. it does help.

 

There's a lot of stuff in here. Ugh, Where do I start.

 

First and foremost. I think he cheated. I don't need any more proof than the last VAR conversation you posted. You've tipped your cards he knows you are onto it and he's gone underground, Using the office phone. He likely has a burner phone. My serial cheating wife had a burner phone. Honestly I wouldn't waste any time trying to gather proof. He cheated, if nothing else he lies a lot. You want proof? I second the suggestion of a PI. You are not going to get anything else through your means, he's going to be careful around you.

 

Despite that, your marriage is doomed anyway. The biggest and worst strain on a marriage is other family members getting involved. Two years ago you choose to help your daughter and grandkids. Was it a choice you made together, or was it something you felt you had to do for your family. Of course he's feeling neglected. It takes a lot to take on those types of additional responsibilities. If/when he strayed during that time (Which he probably did), he justifies it by not getting his emotional needs meet by you, because you were preoccupied with helping your daughter and her kids. He got those needs bet outside the marriage. It's reprehensible that he did this, but he did. I'm guessing there wasn't much communication at the time and he may have felt obligated to go along with what you wanted, because he probably does care about you a bit and wants to do what you feel like you need to do.

 

I did something similar in my marriage when we had to take in my former wife's sister and her kids. I did it because I thought it was the right thing for my family. In actuality it was the worse thing I ever did for my marriage and family, I become distance from my former wife and resentful of her bringing in these extra people into our house. I wasn't connecting with my former wife. Well she was not feeling emotionally connected to me and she strayed in the marriage, multiple times over. I'm guessing it's the same story for you, but in reverse.

 

And now today you are days away from adopting your grandkids. Listen to what he is saying and how he reacts. He does not want to do this. He saw what happened 2 years ago, he felt neglected, emotionally disconnected, but he's not going to deny you of this because he feels trapped, how can he deny this request. It is family after all. But You REALLY REALLY need to be on the same page on this one, and both in 100% agreement as a married couple that you want to take on these types of additional responsibilities. Are you in 100% agreement?

 

I would doubt it, and quite frankly your marriage is such a mess right now that you need to fix that before you take on more kids as a family. You're not even sure you want to be married to him, especially with all his lies and deception, and I'm guessing he's on pins and needles that his expectations from you and what he expects from his wife won't be met, similar to how it was when you took on your daughter's issues 2 years ago, also he thinks/knows you are snooping/spying on him and he could get caught.

 

I predict utter and complete disaster. What you are describing is similar to what I went though.

 

And yes I get that you love your daughter and grandkids, and you would do anything to help them, but does your husband really want to take this all in? I'm guessing he does not, but he feels like he doesn't really have much of a say in it, he's trapped. You are not going to be an effective parent to these grandkids if all that other stuff is going on in the background. I can assure you of that. There's got to be a way to help without causing this huge strain on your marriage? Sometimes loving someone means you love them enough to let them figure out there own messes rather then swooping in and trying to save every little thing they may be doing wrong.

 

Good Luck!

[S2B]

I'm having a difficult time understanding you having lots of sex with him while you fully understand he's been a complete douche behind your back and then bold faced lying to you.

 

Why are you rewarding his bad behavior? Are you physically ill after having sex with him? I would be if I betrayed myself that way...

[Lobe]

I'm having a difficult time understanding you having lots of sex with him while you fully understand he's been a complete douche behind your back and then bold faced lying to you.

 

Why are you rewarding his bad behavior? Are you physically ill after having sex with him? I would be if I betrayed myself that way...

 

Hysterical bonding. It's gross. But it's a thing. I hated myself for it.

[BoughtAtAPrice]

Hysterical bonding. It's gross. But it's a thing. I hated myself for it.

 

I also did it. Couldn't understand why I wanted it so much at the time but was relieved to find out what it was. Makes me feel sick now thinking about it.

[Lobe]

Any updates, YST?

[yepsurething]

Hi everyone. sorry so long to update. I've still been using the VAR and heard a convo recently between husband and his friend. I made my husband suspect I'd talked to his friends wife by writing her name on a scrap of paper and jotting a couple notes down.

 

sure enough the next day he had a convo with his friend saying I think my wife called your wife. but he goes on to say that he knows he was wrong taking about women like he did but why won't I start trusting him and let your wife know I never cheated on my wife. then goes on to say ' I never did anything physical and never even thought of having a relationship with XXXXX. His friend then starts to get upset that I had talked to his wife and my husband tells him to relax and that he hasn't done anything wrong so no worries, they havent cheated on their wives just talked badly.

 

?? I still don't understand some of the conversations Ive heard and I've told him that and he swears it was all just disgusting guy talk that he's humiliated of.

 

I saw him recently search 'most humiliating thing someone ever overheard you say'

 

I can say he's mostly cut himself off from the friend, but they work together. turning down the usual work things they would do together and passing it on to other workers, he also sounds like the business he was going to be starting with him is off.

 

I"m hoping I caught an EA or PA before anything really happened and that we've both been shaken to seeing what we could lose and I'm going to start trying to trust him and see where we go.

 

we're moving forward with our grandkids.

[Lobe]

I"m hoping I caught an EA or PA before anything really happened and that we've both been shaken to seeing what we could lose and I'm going to start trying to trust him and see where we go.

 

we're moving forward with our grandkids.

 

Oh, YST - this must be some relief! I certainly hope HE is doing a 180. Has he been treating you differently? I am so happy that he is cutting himself off from his friend - sounds like a bad influence! I suspect YOU will get a call from HIS wife now though... that will be fun to watch!

 

I'm off on holidays again with spotty reception for a couple of weeks - I'll be sending you happy "my husband is not a cheater" vibes the whole time!

[merrmeade]

sure enough the next day he had a convo with his friend saying I think my wife called your wife. but he goes on to say that he knows he was wrong taking about women like he did but why won't I start trusting him and let your wife know I never cheated on my wife. then goes on to say ' I never did anything physical and never even thought of having a relationship with XXXXX. His friend then starts to get upset that I had talked to his wife and my husband tells him to relax and that he hasn't done anything wrong so no worries, they havent cheated on their wives just talked badly.

 

?? I still don't understand some of the conversations Ive heard and I've told him that and he swears it was all just disgusting guy talk that he's humiliated of.

Yeah, me either. There's something fishy about this -

 

First of all, you understood the conversation so well, got so much detail. Was he enunciating abnormally clearly as if he WANTED to be understood?

Second, he was so PARTICULAR to spell out to his friend all the things he/they DIDN'T do in this loud, clear voice. Who does that in normal conversatoins with freinds/

[elaine567]

Yeah, me either. There's something fishy about this -

 

First of all, you understood the conversation so well, got so much detail. Was he enunciating abnormally clearly as if he WANTED to be understood?

Second, he was so PARTICULAR to spell out to his friend all the things he/they DIDN'T do in this loud, clear voice. Who does that in normal conversatoins with freinds/

I agree he has probably found the VAR.

[rester]

Yeah, me either. There's something fishy about this -

 

First of all, you understood the conversation so well, got so much detail. Was he enunciating abnormally clearly as if he WANTED to be understood?

Second, he was so PARTICULAR to spell out to his friend all the things he/they DIDN'T do in this loud, clear voice. Who does that in normal conversatoins with freinds/

 

I agree he has probably found the VAR.

 

^^^ I was going to say the same thing. That conversation sounds rehearsed or planned. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt in these situations, but something's weird about that conversation.

 

Also, regarding the "disgusting guy talk", most men that I am familiar with that speak that way, they will speak that way whether their wives are around or not. They don't have a different personality or way of speaking when their spouses aren't there to hear them. And they don't disrespect their wives/GFs behind their backs, either.