Cell phone question [updated]

[66Charger]

Why would she feel awkward? he acts like he never even talked to her about this or much of anything else but obviously he did. and why would she avoid his calls and her work duties? and if there was nothing going on why did he need to talk to her at all?

 

Because maybe she did want something and he set her straight. There may have been flirting (which is never harmless) and someone took it too far. A woman scorned?

 

All this is SPECULATION, but in my opinion only, you are barking up the wrong tree. After a few weeks of monitoring, one thing is obvious. He is not CURRENTLY in a affair, and if he was in the past, it wasnt with this woman. This is why I suggest caution. If you confront on this, with this "evidence", he may have proof that he "dumped" her and nothing happened. Then you will look like a jealous crazy person.

 

What is obvious is that he does not fear what she might say. She is not his "freind" and it doesnt appear she would lie for him, yet he tells you to call her?

 

Again, I suggest a little more monitoring, but soon you have to stop with the VAR if this is all you have, and search other communication history or take what you have and make a decision. But do not manufactor something that may not be there.

 

Can anyone say there is definitely a affair based on the evidence presented so far?

 

I also suggest that you not disclose his conversations for 2 reasons. Number 1 a VAR could be used later, but not if it is disclosed. And number 2, I feel snooping when looking for infidelity, is ok, but it is NOT fair to use other bits of information gleaned from this. You are looking for infidelity and that should be your focus.

 

I will be honest, if my thoughts and communications with my friends were monitored by my SO, I may have said a few things that could have been hurtful, but at the end of the day, I try not to DO things that are hurtful. Its the best a imperfect person can do.

 

With all this being said, you deserve to be treated with respect. Even if there is no smoking gun, you are not happy with how you are treated. And I agree with you. However this plays out, put a end to that behaviour. This is your life and you want to make the best of it. Dont ask for changes, demand it or put the consequences on the table and stick to it.

 

I may be 100% wrong on the affair, but you are 100% right on how you want your life to be. Change it.

 

Strength and Honor

Edited June 22, 2016 by 66Charger

[dichotomy]

Good post 66charger.

 

One of the other things (in my own view) is when your spying - what is being said about you in these causal chats with others. I don't mean bitching about something like a bad dinner, or the sofa you bought or your mother in law - or argument you had - I mean if your husband is insulting, degrading or disrespecting you to his friends. I get that some might say if he is talking about some hot chick's body, or how great she MIGHT LOOK to be in bed, that this is disrespectful to you ... but I mean directly saying very negative things about you. I think that's more to issues in the marriage and who you are married to. But keep looking for the actual cheating - 30 days would be enough to confirm.

Edited June 22, 2016 by dichotomy

[ChickiePops]

It's easy to tell someone not to listen to the parts of the conversations that she records that do not involve infidelity. Not so easy for her to forget them. She can't unhear what she's heard.

 

Of course everyone says things that they wouldn't want their significant others to hear sometimes. I'm guilty of that and I'm sure my boyfriend is too. But the OP is worried about being lied to as much as she is about infidelity. She's going to hear some bad stuff that she's not going to be able to forget about..spying on your spouse is a dangerous game. But in the long run its up to her to decipher what she hears and whether it's divorce-worthy or not, whether that's infidelity, lying, or something else she may come across. It's not fair to chastise her for being hurt or confused by what she hears.

 

Infidelity isn't the only reason to divorce someone..if she hears something that she can't live with, that's up to her.

[66Charger]

I agree and stated she may need to look at what info she has and that the primary focus should be on her happiness and make the changes. Either way, YST I wish you well.

 

66 out.

[Lobe]

YST, are you ok?

[yepsurething]

well, I couldn't take it anymore and I told my husband I listened in to some of his phone calls.

 

it's been a rough weekend.

 

it reference to the 'f*cks like a race horse' comment he claims that was just crude guy talk, ? and the comment about the women he 'dumped' he says that was a joke too.

 

he said he looked over the emails he had been exchanging with her and saw how they could be construed at too friendly and talked to her to let her know that I saw the emails and was uncomfortable with them and wanted to let her know if she had gotten the wrong impression he wanted to clarify that he hadn't meant to be to friendly or give the wrong impression and he said that must have made her uncomfortable. hmm. don't know.

 

in reference to him making fun of me and calling me crazy, well after he through a complete fit he apologized for that as well.

 

He swears he hasn't had an affair, that he's sorry for being 'too friendly' (he refuses to call it flirting) and isn't going to make fun of me anymore. He said he loves me and can't live without me.

 

well, we're going to schedule counseling and maybe that will help us communicate better.

 

just wanted to update. not sure what to think or believe, but done with recording for a while.

[BuddyX]

You tipped your cap too early. He'll go underground. If that's at least not Flirting than I don't know what is

[yepsurething]

You tipped your cap too early. He'll go underground. If that's at least not Flirting than I don't know what is

 

yeah, i realize, I just couldn't stand it anymore.

 

=/

[BetrayedH]

yeah, i realize, I just couldn't stand it anymore.

 

=/

 

Not meaning to pile on but...hopefully you've learned. The confrontation is so incredibly tough to resist but it almost never accomplishes anything. A liar will just continue to lie, deny, minimize, and lie some more. Honestly, what did you really learn from confronting him? Nothing, right?

 

It's important to keep in mind that you don't have to prove anything to him. You just need to convince yourself. You need enough info so that you can make an informed decision. Once you "know," the best confrontation is done with divorce papers. All this confrontation has done is alert him to your snooping. You've reduced the odds of getting the information you really need. Betrayed spouses rarely get more than one chance to figure out what's really gone on. Most of us made the same mistake you did. Try not to squander any more shots you might get.

[Lobe]

YST are you satisfied and do you believe your husband? I know people still ask me if I'm sure if WH isn't underground but I've spent enough time scoping his internet activity, surprising him at work for lunch, and fishing for inconsistencies that I'm satisfied I believe him. I'm satisfied. Are you?

[Poutrew]

well, I couldn't take it anymore and I told my husband I listened in to some of his phone calls.

 

it's been a rough weekend.

 

it reference to the 'f*cks like a race horse' comment he claims that was just crude guy talk, ? and the comment about the women he 'dumped' he says that was a joke too.

 

he said he looked over the emails he had been exchanging with her and saw how they could be construed at too friendly and talked to her to let her know that I saw the emails and was uncomfortable with them and wanted to let her know if she had gotten the wrong impression he wanted to clarify that he hadn't meant to be to friendly or give the wrong impression and he said that must have made her uncomfortable. hmm. don't know.

 

in reference to him making fun of me and calling me crazy, well after he through a complete fit he apologized for that as well.

 

He swears he hasn't had an affair, that he's sorry for being 'too friendly' (he refuses to call it flirting) and isn't going to make fun of me anymore. He said he loves me and can't live without me.

 

well, we're going to schedule counseling and maybe that will help us communicate better.

 

just wanted to update. not sure what to think or believe, but done with recording for a while.

 

 

Where you go from here is to ask for a polygraph test. If all that happened was what he admitted to, then he should have no problem with taking one because it will support his version of events, and then you can both have a good conversation concerning proper spousal behavior. If he hems and haws and comes up with every excuse under the sun to not take one, then you will have your answer and you can decide what to do from there...

Be strong, YST, and good luck.

[merrmeade]

Where you go from here is to ask for a polygraph test. If all that happened was what he admitted to, then he should have no problem with taking one because it will support his version of events, and then you can both have a good conversation concerning proper spousal behavior. If he hems and haws and comes up with every excuse under the sun to not take one, then you will have your answer and you can decide what to do from there...

Be strong, YST, and good luck.

Yes, this is a really good idea and probably your best chance at present. You need to insist on it in while he's still penitent and you have some leverage.

[yepsurething]

IN this case, since he is overly angry and is still minimizing and not taking full responsibility for how he participated - as well as looking like he's only sorry you now know = a poly graph is in order.

 

That way you can decide if counseling is even worth your time.

 

No one gets angry like that if they aren't hiding something. His over reaction is to deflect from what he's done.

 

Then he won't call it flirting? What's that crap about? How about he just gets honest? I don't think you'll ever get him offering you any truth... He is gonna make you crazy if you continue...he is being completely manipulative.

 

This guy doesn't know how to be honest with you. He treats you disrespectfully and even shares your sex life with others.

 

He just disrespects you! He also isn't at all what he pretends to be. How can a counselor change the core being of any person?

 

He's shown who he really is - if you don't like who he really is then have him leave.

 

He is the crazy one - not you. Yet he was totally willing to make you feel badly - that is not loving behavior.

 

I just don't understand how you stay with a man you don't even know. One that disrespects that much...

 

You don't know the real him. He's been pretending so long and blaming you that he just needs to be angry with you so it's not his fault? NO!

 

Has he agreed to be more open with his phone now? Did he show you all communications on his phone?

 

Hey does he want to stay married to you if he treats you that poorly to others? Why is he using you as his punching bag behind your back? I want to know why you think you should continue any further with that special kind of abuse from him? He wants to embarrass you - and if you stay you are allowing it now that you know!

 

IF he isn't willing to be an open book moving forward then he still has more to hide and isn't honest.

 

First thing = polygraph.

 

well, there aren't any polygraphs anywhere near us, and looks like they are 400 dollars, and can't really spend that right now.

 

I realize that him getting angry is pretty much showing that he's hiding something. Even knowing that I heard him calling women hot pretty much through him over the edge. Like I said he has this super clean cut family guy image he's always portrayed so it really upset him that I heard him saying those things. He denied them at first, got furious second, then he cried, said he was sorry. He kept making excuses and blaming me, but I held strong and said no, I was not at fault for any of this. He yelled and got in my face and thats usually when I leave the room or give up, but not last night. I told him I wasn't afraid, (he's never hit me, but he's 6 ft 5 big guy and he'll get right up next to me and get in my face and try to intimidate me. well, I wasn't 'scared last night because I knew I was right, for the first time that he's a liar and he couldn't deny.

 

and yes, I know counseling can't change who he is at the core, and that scares me and I talked to him about that. I asked why do you even want to be married to me if all you do is make fun of me . he said he's sorry for doing that and sees its mean and that's how him and his friend talk. Pretty crappy I think.

 

I told him I'd like his friends wifes number to talk to her and see if she likes what s being said about her. Of course he refused and I can't seem to find her online.

 

not admitting it is flirting and ogling is not ok to me, and I'm hoping in counseling he'll admit it was inappropriate. or i'll just see this is who he is. seems a lot of men tell me get over it, that's how men act. dismal thought.

 

I was mad that he told me that when he explained to his lunch date girl that lunches and their friendship was over that it's because my wife doesn't like him to be friendly. oh boy. friendly is fine, flirting not fine...for me anyway.

 

and if there was nothing going on why would he need to talk to her at all?

 

if there was nothing going on why does she feel awkward?

he still denies they ever had lunch.

 

I dont feel good about what he's telling me. I told him Im scared and he said he'll go to counseling and do what ever to make me feel safe.

 

He told me he's working this Thursday with the lunch date girl. the last time they were supposed to work together last week he told me also, but she called off from work?? (she's 27 btw) nice.

 

he still not great about the phone. always on him.

 

I just dont know what to think about him talking about me negatively. Is that normal guy banter too?

 

He calls me crazy, and makes fun of some of the stuff I say to him in privacy. He has also called the lunch girl crazy..the girl he want to f like race horse is called crazy.

 

I asked him why we women are all crazy. maybe its him who's crazy. its what happens when you make a women feel liked or loved then sneak and cheat. makes a women feel crazy. difference is, I have the right to be crazy over him, not these other women.

 

not really sure where to go from here. I mean I know its easy to say just leave him, but I'm getting close to 50 years old. Ive raised 6 kids with this man. we are not set financially and are currently going through some financial stuff we're working to get out of, and it would be better for us to work it out together even if we do separate so we'll have more money to take care of our 3 kids who are still living at home. easy to say sell my farm, I have a 27, 22 and 23 year old horses I've had for years. Like selling your dog you've had for 15 years. they're like any 'pet'. they are family. not to mention my goats that are nearing 10 years old, a farm full of cats, a cow who's 5, raised her since she was a baby, a ginormous dog and what ever new critter is needing help.

 

so I'm a vegetarian animal rescuer of sorts. it takes up some time, and money, but its who I am and my husband used to love that about me, that I'll take in a stray, go without makeup or fancy clothes and care about some banged up homeless critter. I can't just think about me, I have to think about my kids number 1 and then the critters...I have about 30 farm critters I"d have to rehome. or they will likely end in slaughter, especially horses cause no one wants old horses. they go to the dog food companies. and, our kids LOVE the farm. they ride, hike, swim, involved in all aspects of the farm, and they love it. its all they've ever known.

 

just trying to explain why Id rather work on this instead of jumping ship cause I'm not the only one who will get hurt.

 

but, like I said staying with hubby while we get our finances together at least and while I find other avenues to make money to keep the farm myself is what I would choose rather than leaving quickly and wrecking everything.

 

sorry to ramble.

[yepsurething]

YST are you satisfied and do you believe your husband? I know people still ask me if I'm sure if WH isn't underground but I've spent enough time scoping his internet activity, surprising him at work for lunch, and fishing for inconsistencies that I'm satisfied I believe him. I'm satisfied. Are you?

 

No Lobe, I'm not satisfied.

 

I think in his head he knows what he did was wrong in reference to the lunch dates,(maybe) and the fact that he actually talked to her and 'ended' their friendship says that he knew something wasn't ok, because if they were just friends why would he care, or if he wanted to continue what he had going he wouldn't end it.

 

I saw the look in his eyes when I told him I saw the emails. He was crushed. He saw my face and my sadness and I could tell he felt horrible. but he snapped out of it and went on lying.

 

so, he obviously knew the friendship which started in 2014 was wrong.

[elaine567]

but, like I said staying with hubby while we get our finances together at least and while I find other avenues to make money to keep the farm myself is what I would choose rather than leaving quickly and wrecking everything.

 

Yes, it is always good in life to prioritize. YOU are not some teenager or 20 something who thinks a man is the most important thing in her life, you have other things that make your life complete.

Being without your kids, farm, horses and other animals would kill you, so they need to be your priority. YOU need to start thinking about and doing things FOR YOU.

I tend, like you, NOT to believe him, so you need to get your stuff in order so that YOU can keep your horses and all the other bits of your life intact even if he one day ups and leaves for someone else who "f-cks like a racehorse"...

 

YOU need to start taking charge of your own life.

Get an attorney involved and find out your rights, maybe you would have enough money to move all your stuff lock stock and barrel to another farm, if not then at least you would be aware of what he gets if he does leave you.

 

This is a huge wake up call for you, you cannot let this slide and then be blindsided when one day his OW knocks on your door either literally or metaphorically...

[BuddyX]

As I mentioned before He'll go underground. WS rarely cut it off and go extreme NC. At the very least, he's talking to her about matching their stories in case it's exposed.

[yepsurething]

As I mentioned before He'll go underground. WS rarely cut it off and go extreme NC. At the very least, he's talking to her about matching their stories in case it's exposed.

 

yes, that could be, but in the phone calls I heard, he says they aren't talking and that she won't even answer his work emails now.

 

and he calls her a crazy bitch and said she was a trouble maker.

 

so, I'm hoping I guess that the friendship or flirtation or EA is over.

[BuddyX]

My ExW said about the her partner, "He's a nut job. He's a nut job. Everyone hates him"... Ummm but yet she messed around with him.

 

Same goes for your man. Degrading the OW makes you question his decision making.

[Lobe]

yes, that could be, but in the phone calls I heard, he says they aren't talking and that she won't even answer his work emails now.

 

and he calls her a crazy bitch and said she was a trouble maker.

 

so, I'm hoping I guess that the friendship or flirtation or EA is over.

 

I didn't think you were satisfied with his answer. The biggest problem I see is that after all of this you still don't have your smoking gun. So, game on...

 

Unfortunately, you have indeed tipped your hand, so he knows he's under surveillance so whatever he is doing will be taken deep underground, as quickly as possible. His reaction is damning enough that all bets are off, starting with you need to go get tested for STDs and use condoms with your husband if you intend to continue having sex with him, though frankly I'd be cutting him off until further notice.

 

Then you should contact "the crazy bitch" who won't even answer her work emails. Ask her to chat. Send her an email. Chances are good that if she has been cut off or he used and discarded her, she will become an ally and may have valuable information and insight. I contacted one of my ex-husband's girlfriends once because I needed to clear the air between us, and years later their relationship is over but I still consider her one of my dearest friends. It's worth a try, no? Worst that can happen is she goes and tips off your husband... who is probably crapping his pants trying to figure out how to bury his lies so bad right now he doesn't know what to do with himself. Strike before he has time to collude.

 

Hi, I'm YST. Due to my husband, (his name), acting strangely, speaking inappropriately with both male and female colleagues, and getting caught in multiple lies, I need to make some difficult decisions about my family and marriage. My husband, and his colleague ~friend's name who was in his car~ have been swapping notes about their alleged conquests with you and ~racehorse girl~. He has called you a crazy b*tch and a trouble maker and gave "permission" to his colleague to pursue ~name~ who can apparently "f*ck like a racehorse."

 

I'm not asking you for intimate details and I have no intent to pursue vengeance - I'm sure he's lied to everyone else as much as he has lied to me - but I would like clarification on the nature of your relationship as my husband is not very forthcoming right now. Namely, I need to know whether you have been having an emotional and/or physical affair, as he is claiming that you no longer answer his work-related emails and it sounds like there has been some sort of falling that out goes beyond "harmless" flirting and that was not of a strictly "professional" nature.

 

If it's any consolation, he is claiming that I am a "crazy bitch" too, so if I am completely fabricating all of this in my mind, I apologize for dragging you into this. Likewise, if my suspicions are true and he has been sleeping around at the office, I suggest you get yourself tested for STDs as I have.

 

I am unable to meet in person as we only have one vehicle, but I am amicable to a phone call at ~this number~ if you prefer.

 

Ultimately, with or without verification of any affair(s), the question will remain if you want to continue with the marriage. It sounds like your husband is sorry he got caught (guilty) not sorry about what he is doing (which would be remorse) and so making him go to marriage counselling may in fact be prolonging the inevitable.

 

A friend of mine was in marriage counselling and her therapist made her and her husband do up a "fake" equitable and amicable separation agreement - divvying things up in such a way they they both got maximum value from the assets, equal time with the kids, etc. It was a defining moment in their relationship as it showed them both how their lives would be impacted by the divorce and was a huge reality check about what was at stake. When I did my separation agreement I thought I was going to be financially destitute but really, downsizing and streamlining my lifestyle would have been an upgrade in a lot of ways, something that I was not expecting when I sat down to do it. In fact, I was a little disappointed when WH came home because it put a kink in my travel plans... lol

 

I can't remember who says it all the time but here on LS but the "person who cares the least has the most power." It's perhaps the most cynical and pessimistic outlook I've ever seen, but honestly, there was definitely a boost in my confidence once I had actually written up the agreement. Like holy sh*t, things will be really really different, but I'm going to be OK... Right now you hubby is acting like he holds all the cards. He believes you won't leave him because of finances. He believes he has all the power and control, including over what information you receive, and he is being arrogant about it. Maybe you need to sit down and go through the process of actually writing up a separation agreement for your own information. It will put some new perspective on your situation. Start looking at places you can board your horses and your cow, consider how much money you would make from selling your house and taking half the equity, check out real estate in the area. Look for jobs in the paper or online that you could apply for. Find out what kinds of funding you might be eligible if you go back to school or whatever.

[BetrayedH]

I'd still be using the VAR if I were you. It's rather remarkable how deep the rabbit hole can go.

[yepsurething]

I'd still be using the VAR if I were you. It's rather remarkable how deep the rabbit hole can go.

 

well, my husband isn't too bright computer wise so he thinks I tapped his phone line, doesn't even realize there is a recorder, however since he's not talking to his cheat buddy no point in putting the VAR in the car so I instead put the recorder in a hidden location in his computer bag.

 

glad I did. first thing he does when he gets to work is call cheat buddy and tell him not to call his cell anymore and if he does don't mention hot chicks or lunch date girl.

 

he tells his friend I tapped his phone and heard some things, but I dont really know anything.

 

then tells his friend not to mention lunch girls girlfriend, and said he doesn't think I have figured that part out. ??

 

he told me this woman was a lesbian when I first found the emails. maybe he was actually having an affair with her girlfriend.

 

he says, my wife just doesnt understand men are dogs.

and then says 'I'm not going down like this'.

 

wow, don't worry, no tipping the hat this time.

[BuddyX]

Keep your eyes and ears open. Hes def going Underground. Don't be surprised if he gets a burner phone. Or another tablet/laptop.

You say your husband's not to tech savvy. Trust me, when they try to cover up their tracks they'll use any means necessary. But that's also when they make mistakes.

 

Nothing coming out of his mouth is valid anymore. Prepare yourself for the worst.

[underpants]

Sorry to say your H sounds like an opportunistic cheater.

 

Definitely not his first rodeo. He has counted on your naive nature and other women's professional confidence (sex workers) or gullibility (suckers).

 

Even better with a cheat buddy, they can use each other for cover, alibis or to reassure suspicions.

 

You may squelch this affair, but what about the next one? Or the one after that? Or other irons he stokes from time to time?

 

I made a thread about a dude that turned out to be a opportunistic cheater. He also told his significant other (now ex, good for her) that I was a lesbian. He had a cheater buddy that reassured her that he would never cheat on her and was his alibi on the dates I gave her. Then, tada, I was 'crazy'. He told me he was a divorced dad of one child, turns out he had 3. He lied so much it was nuts.

 

It will make you crazy to have to police him, and for what? He is who he is, and will probably start to resent you for making his shady life difficult. Selfish people gonna selfish.

 

That phone call to his buddy is imho, all the evidence you need. He is covering his immediate lies, and says 'im not going down like this', along with 'all men are dogs'. Him and his buddy have a scheme it appears and that is just shady.

 

What will proving adultery grant you in your state? In most cases you can get a divorce faster, but the assets are still divided and alimony cs is based on income. You can at least research some of this, research local lawyers, make some lists. Copy important papers. Prepare.

 

You probably take care of a lot of domestic farm stuff, why not look into a co opt or helping manage another farm while you settle you assets? Perhaps as part of a deal they can board your animals, maybe even offer you some housing?

 

Unfortunately it will probably take less effort and be easier to just stay and accept things for what they are. That is soul crushing and I hope you can find a way to escape someone who treats you poorly.

[yepsurething]

yes, it is soul crushing to have these worries, and it does seem obvious he's cheated, and the women who I thought he was having an affair with he wasn't, and seems he won't tell me the truth so I have no choice but to snoop.

 

without the whole truth I won't even consider staying.

 

i guess its all still a huge shock to me. I mean I won't post any pics obviously, but in a million years no one would know he would talk and act the way he does.

 

heart breaking.

 

at the same time, now that I know my suspicions were right and I'm not crazy there is a huge feeling of relief.

 

can't explain it, but Id rather know Im sane and with a creep then to think I'm crazy for these feelings over the years.

[Lobe]

at the same time, now that I know my suspicions were right and I'm not crazy there is a huge feeling of relief.

 

can't explain it, but Id rather know Im sane and with a creep then to think I'm crazy for these feelings over the years.

 

Oh, I know what you mean! I seriously thought I had lost my g*ddamned marbles!!!

 

YST, work on your separation agreement. Seriously. And it's time to get tested for STDs. And it's time to cut him off from sex. What's he going to do - threaten to leave you if you don't put out? You're close to having what you need. It's time to turn the power dynamic around an start playing hardball.

 

Oh, I am so angry for you right now. SO ANGRY. I want to go punch your husband in the balls for you LOL