Is this an Emotional Affair or am I just jealous?

[merrmeade]

ABE!!! YOU'RE NOT LISTENING and you're not talking to internet riff-raff here or just keyboard scribbling in an internet journal. These are concerned but educated, experienced, articulate people here, ALL telling you the same thing.

 

We were going with your written description of her behavior.

 

Something happened to you at that MC office, AF. Not good. Something that literally changed how you're processing the REALITY of your wife's actions. Maybe (a) the MC is trying to work with recent events and manner of communication between you and your wife and (b) what she of you in the session was not what we are seeing. (And this is me, trying to give the MC the benefit of the doubt as a certified MMFT, like you said.)

 

The problem with her dismissal of the LS printouts was that she did not get a clear 123 explanation of your OBSERVATIONS of your wife's ACTIONS.

 

Can you just print out YOUR posts and mail them to her?

[aliveagain]

To answer your question, yes, this is an emotional affair. To give you the true reality of my answer, your wife is having an emotional affair that is about to turn physical and your paying for the trip. Being a nice guy isn't working for you so I suggest you change your strategy. What have you got to loose that you haven't already lost? The sooner you implement your requirements for staying married to her the sooner your healing will begin. One of two things will happen, she agrees to your terms and you work on what's broken in her and what's broken in your marriage or she refuses and you kick her out, both scenarios take you out of infidelity without wasting anymore of your time. Telling her she can continue to cheat but only until 9 PM is crazy, cheating stops now, no contact immediately with O/M, full transparency, independent counselling with a counsellor you both agree on to find out why she needs validation from other men, then couples counselling to work on your marriage.

 

Allowing her to be invested in other men means she's only part time invested in your marriage. There is one too many people in your marriage and somebody's got to go. Stop being nice because you can't nice them back, you can't nice someone into loving you. Rather then paying for her trip try cutting off her finances, credit cards, internet, cell, gaming, show her what life without you will be like. Start by talking to a lawyer, understand your rights, find out what it will cost for you to get out of this because from where I sit your the only one committed to your marriage. Having a wife with a boyfriend is the worst possible place to be. As already suggested, start making the "180" your new way of life, you need to start detaching from her because your not thinking with your best interests at heart. If she won't take you out of infidelity then you need to and soon because from what I've read your starting to get physical with each other. Time you carried a voice activated recorder on you whenever your with her, false charges have removed many a good man from their home.

[smackie9]

IMO therapists main goal is to improve communication so as the couple will have the tools to work out their issues themselves. It's tough during these sessions because they are not their to pick sides, point out flaws, or actually impose opinion.....it is all on the couple. If the couple or an individual is not forth coming with the truth, is guarded, or stubborn, the sessions are a waste of money. I believe that is why counseling is not working....no one or someone is not truly being upfront. To me there seems to be a lot of fear, hence the fighting....holding in the truth of what is really going on.

 

OP your wife is very unhappy, unsatisfied with the marriage. She feels trapped. That is why she uses gaming, flirting, fantasies and emotional affairs as an escape. She's afraid to walk....why? possibly for financial reasons, afraid of the unknown, hooked on the security/familiarity of the marriage, doesn't want to face change, or the simple fact you won't let her go.

 

Time to step up in your next counseling session and ask your wife for the truth. What is it she truly want in life, from you and the marriage.....does she want out? Does she want you to be more assertive? Does she even want this to work? Demand the god's honest truth. Tell her you will accept whatever she is about to tell you.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Abe, I just wanted to add one more bit of an observation and I don,t know if any one else has pointed it out. the fact is that although at the time of booking her trip by you, her AP was not on the list of attendees, once her booking was confirmed your wife has called this guy and told him that she was attending this do and that he too, should make it there if he wanted to meet her. As regular as clockwork her AP made his reservations and made sure that he would be by her side( and in her bed to give her company that she so sorely desires)and for all practical purposes , you were made to think it was all a fluke!

 

I may be right or I might be wrong(I sincerely hope I am but the odds are not in my favour) but the fact is that HE IS GOING TO BE THERE period. Your wife has manipulated things in such a smart way as to make it all seem to be a harmless coincidence whereas it is just the opposite. It has been planned by her to the last detail and only a natural calamity or a God induced intervention can change things from moving to their logical conclusion, which is, that she will end up in bed with him. Afterwards whatever happens is just so much flaff. I do hope this makes some sense to you. Warm wishes!

[Mr. Lucky]

Very little positive came of it, so she returned to working on a Photoshop project where she is designing a print to go on a T-shirt of the male character she likes from Dragon Age...

 

Do you think your wife's preoccupation with fantasy somehow extends to her inability to see a committed relationship like marriage in realistic terms?

 

something frustrated her on the program and she threw her mouse into my monitor...breaking it in the process...she apologized and we went out and bought a new screen and worked together to set everything up.

 

Pretty good analogy here. She smashes your monitor, you work with her to get a new one. She's damaged your marriage, you jump through similar hoops. If there's no consequences for her inappropriate behavior, including violating a contract agreement you both signed off on, why would she change :confused:???

 

Mr. Lucky

[TaraMaiden2]

I'm going to stop responding here. It's clear the OP is actually not listening to sound common sense from so many respondents, but chooses to believe that if he just tries a little harder *here*, *here*, and *here*, his wife will miraculously come round to believing he is the one and only truly desirable male in her life, and there is no other...

 

Until I see "Ok, I served her D. papers today," Is there any point in continuing this saga, I ask myself........?

[merrmeade]

No, I think we just thought OP was running along beside us, but we lost him back there after the first MC. Personally I think he's in shock and doesn't realize how illogical he sounds doing the little exercises given by MC.

 

I don't want to scare him off either when the sh-t finally hits the fan and he realizes LS was right. No, Abe, it's OKAY. You can always come back and update and no one will blink when you say that what everyone said would happen, did - i.e., she went to the convention and she and the dude got it on. Hey, lots of us didn't listen. I didn't.

 

Anyway, it's just that at some point it seemed like we weren't all assuming the same things. We were talking about exclusive, committed relationships, a marriage in which both partners agree that sexual and emotional intimacy is exclusive to their relationship, no exceptions, because they know that emotional or sexual intimacy in a secondary relationship detracts from the primary. They know that little breaches can become major ones and avoid them to safeguard their marriage. They agree that hiding continued breaches of their exclusivity constitutes betrayal. If they go to a therapist for marriage counseling, they make sure the therapist shares this core conviction about monogamy.

 

They respect each other's boundaries and levels of comfort regarding their interactions with other 'potential' mates and do not allow circumstances to arise, much less continue, that pose a threat to their spouses, especially when the spouse has expressed discomfort with it. They certainly would not demand having continued contact with such a person - not with timeframes, not with any conditions at all. And no therapist would ask it.

 

That's where we were coming from, and the fact that you let yourself be talked into agreeing to all that you did pretty much blew everyone's mind. But you never discussed this major disconnect, so guess you're still stuck there.

 

Whatev, Abe. We tried. I think you'll be sorry and realize we were right, but it is totally okay for you to come back and say so because you are REALLY going to need us then.

[Poutrew]

If she goes on this trip, just tell her that her leaving will change the nature of your relationship, and not for the better. If she still goes, or tells you to go F**k yourself and then goes, then you will have your answer. She is not the woman you thought she was. Have her stuff packed and put in boxes on the driveway so when she gets back and asks you what the hell is going on, you can just serve her with divorce papers and lock her out of the house. Then be cold and business-like and do not deviate from your objective - to win your freedom. Let her have her fantasy world, where she can slay Morloks with the online boyfriend - heck, she can move in with him and plug her xbox controller into the same game console he is using and have at it. Then you find yourself a REAL WOMAN, who desires a REAL MAN, and go live your life.

[harrybrown]

just file for Divorce, go on your own to the new teaching position.

 

Do the 180 on her, she is selfish, she has not stopped all contact with the POSOM.

 

Get her out of your life now.

 

Go see your attorney today.

[NewlySingleGuy]

Greetings to all--

 

My wife wound up having highly sexual conversations with this young man where the two shared pictures (full nudity, etc.). This took place last summer and I only discovered the situation when I happened to look through my wife's phone for something unrelated (a cat picture) and noticed that she had downloaded the YikYak app (so I was curious why she had it--since I didn't know why she would be using it).

 

In the time since, my wife has made several female friends through her Dragon Age groups and regularly messages them through Facebook. As my wife had indicated that she had never gotten along well with females throughout the majority of her life, it was somewhat "different" for me to see her engage in "girl talk" with her friends. At first, I was still a bit reluctant (because I don't know any of the girls with whom she converses), but I have done my best to come around to the notion that it is ok.

 

regularly talk on Facebook messenger. She flirts heavily with him (sending in-shower pics, though with no breasts, etc. being shown, etc.), talks to him when she wakes up in the morning, and will sometimes stay up until 6-7 a.m. chatting with him while I sleep next to her.

 

She now regularly deletes her conversations with him and I believe she is hiding some of her conversations with several of her female friends, as well (at least the parts relating to him or our relationship). Adding fuel to the fire, she is scheduled to fly across the country to go to a video game/comic convention in less than a month (over my birthday, no less) and he will be there.

 

She is done with your relationship. If she could have ****ed the guy, she would have. She did everything about that. And this isn't some one time thing, she is starting up a new relationship while she is with you (which women tend to do).

 

When she meets him in person they will be ****ing the same day. They will probably skip most of the convention because all the ****ing they will be doing.

 

She is an adult, and not only an adult, she is your adult partner in life, and you should't have to babysit an adult!

 

If you are comfortable with her screwing around, and enjoy her company, then stay with her, but it sounds like you don't, and even if you were fine with it, she may meet a guy and decide to leave you anyways.

 

I'd leave her before it gets worse for you.

[sandylee1]

This is almost as sad as one poor abused husband who dropped his wife off at her APs house. He found out 5 years later and she was raging mad that he was late.

 

Abe - all too often men think they can fix things. You stay and hope it will get better... that she'll get better because you feel leaving is a sign of failure. That's not true. A woman who loved and respected you wouldn't do what your wife does.

 

Luckily you don't have kids unlike the man I mentioned. Even if you did ... you have to show them how to behave in a moral sense.

The longer you stay in this marriage ... you will become desensitised and think it's normal. You will loose sight of the person you once were and the spark will disappear from your face and your mind.

 

I'll be damned if I let another human being do that to me.

 

How many men do you know that would pay for their wife to go and meet her online BF? Cancel that ticket and tell her to sit her backside down and grow up.

[NTV]

Abe, you still around?

[urmysong]

I can't believe You still call it marriage and love.

[Abe Froman]

To all of those who have responded, thank you for taking the time. I have been taking some time this week to attend some counseling sessions (I had an IC on Monday and about an hour ago, with a couples counseling session in between on Tuesday) and wanted to see how that progressed before sharing on here again with any updates. I meant no offense to any of the posters/responders in my delay with commenting.

 

However, due to the fact there have been so many responses, instead of replying to each person individually, I'm just going to take the time to do a more overarching discussion of where things are, etc.

 

First, my IC on Monday resulted in me really sharing a lot more about my feelings of personal core ethics and "non-negotiables". Our MC/IC worked with me to really think about certain items that violate my personal ethics and where I couldn't stand to be with that person (even if everything else was perfect about them). Since my wife and I were meeting with her the following day, the MC asked that I ask my wife to do the same thinking about what her "non-negotiable" items would be.

 

At the same time, our MC, for the first time in our sessions, really started to answer questions and discuss the definitions of emotional infidelity and intellectual infidelity with me. I had obviously done quite a bit of reading on these forums, Psychology Today, Focus on the Family, etc. about each term, but it was good to hear some validation that my wife likely is "at least" having one such type of affair.

 

After that meeting on Monday, my wife returned home from work and we took her to the ER to deal with an ongoing knee ailment with which she had been dealing and tried to just keep the conversation relatively civil.

 

Yesterday (Tuesday), my wife and I met together with our MC and my wife was pretty much the focus of the session by being asked her stances on what constituted infidelity, etc. She indicated basically physical relationships were infidelity and her non-negotiables typically centered around such items (as she put it, "anything physical or that would jeopardize the marriage"). We spent the rest of the session going back and forth a little bit about making sure everyone understood the same definitions of terms (EA, IA, PA, etc.), and I noted that I view EA's as being "very real" and "very hurtful".

 

After our meeting, my wife and I walked out to our car and she gave me a hug. We got inside and she told me that she loved me and that we she was happy that we were working through this. I said, "I know you probably felt attacked in there", but she indicated that she thought everything that was said was "fair". At that point, I simply stated that I think where I am is that I don't need to apologize for feeling how I feel and that she doesn't need to apologize for feeling how she feels. I said that it's great we agree on so many things and genuinely enjoy our time together, but on this issue, we may be simply incompatible. She broke down in tears and accused me of "giving up", but I held firm in a stoic sense and just suggested we go get something to eat to settle down.

 

We ate dinner together and went to a movie. We came home shortly before 9 p.m. and she went to the bathroom, where she admitted to messaging with one of her female friends (after being told in the meeting earlier that afternoon that no messaging included EVERYONE after 9 p.m.--not just the guy in question). I acquiesced sense she indicated that her friend was going through a rough time and needed someone with whom to talk, but she stopped talking to her around 9:45.

 

Shortly thereafter, she took some of the pain medication for her knee and fell asleep around 11 p.m. (extremely early for her). I put my phone down when she put hers down and went to sleep within a few minutes, myself.

 

Today, I met with the MC for an IC session and indicated what had happened in the previous day. Our MC was not happy that she had violated the boundary so quickly, labeled me an enabler, and set much firmer ground rules (no phones at all--for any purpose--after 9 p.m. for both of us; Kindle Fire could be used for her to play games and "wind down", but Facebook/Skype were to be uninstalled and no social media was to be used in any other capacity; I was to use "kind and gentle" reminders that 9 p.m. was approaching, etc.). We also talked about different "consequences" of further broken boundaries ("acceptance", 3 different types of "separations", and "D").

 

I sent my wife an email just before beginning this posting to let her know of the outcomes from today's session and have yet to receive any type of response. I tried to frame the discussion using her language that continued boundary pushing/breaking would jeopardize our relationship and rather than looking at this as a loss, to consider it as an opportunity to demonstrate love to someone you love/care for.

 

My MC and I agreed that this approach would be better than immediately jumping into "ultimatums" which we both agree are not really positive in a marriage.

 

So...with all of that said, here are my questions/thoughts/feelings at this juncture, as well as an attempt to clarify what I think are some inaccuracies in several of the posts from others:

 

1. I honestly do not believe my wife will have a PA on her trip with the OM largely because he seems entirely disinterested in such an experience. From all accounts (of what I have read firsthand and heard from my wife secondhand), he is in a committed/stable relationship with his girlfriend and views my wife strictly on a platonic level. She has initiated 100% of the flirting with him and he has virtually never responded in kind (aside from sharing a few pictures of himself in his cosplay apparel--though I don't think the intent on his part was to be flirtatious by any stretch--it just made my wife "giddy").

 

2. Because of my feelings on Item #1 above, I'm not terrified of my wife going on this trip from the standpoint of her having a PA with the individual in question. Sure, her "crush" on him (as she puts it) is irritating and I personally find it inappropriate, but I feel pretty safe in her not crossing the physical boundary in this instance due to her own acknowledgements about physical/sexual being a "non-negotiable" and the status of the person in question.

 

3. With that said, I also am concerned about a much deeper issue surrounding this entire episode in that while this one seems to honestly be the most "innocent" of all her previous such EAs (in that her infatuation isn't really being reciprocated), it's still a sign that it keeps on happening. In essence, I feel like each one of these EAs is an "effect" of a greater "cause". Whether that cause is just simply a matter of personal differences in ethics, opinions, etc. is what I am trying to decipher.

 

Optimally, I would like my wife to make the conscious choice to rectify such behaviors, but I fear that this might be more of a difference in our core values. Again, I don't believe I should necessarily fault her for believing what she believes if this is, indeed, the issue. I also certainly don't fault myself for believing what I believe in terms of what I think are non-negotiable/inappropriate behaviors. I'm just trying to figure out a way to determine if there's a potential method for reconciling the differences if this happens to be the problem.

 

As I've said before, I do love my wife. I do not want to hurt her and I genuinely care what happens to her. I recognize that a divorce or separation would hurt her and by taking such actions, she would potentially lose a great deal of trust in me in the process. Prior to last month, neither of us had ever even left the house in anger with the other (even to take a walk/short drive), but now we've both done it. Prior to last week, we'd never had a physical confrontation (which I still regret immensely)... I just am not sure where things are headed.

 

I've ordered the "Not 'Just Friends'" book and it should be delivered in the coming days. I'm curious about what to expect from it from those who have suggested I read it. Is this something that my wife and I should do together, potentially?

 

I'm also curious about the 180 as I've done some research/reading on it, as well. My MC was familiar with "Not 'Just Friends'" and indicated that it would probably be taking more "my side" in the discussion (I had assumed as much, given the title and going through some of the quizzes on the website), but she still thought it might have some value. She was entirely unfamiliar with the 180, however, and I shared some links with her about 30 minutes ago for her to evaluate.

 

My wife and I still live together, sleep in the same bed, and (mostly) enjoy our times. Obviously, her connection to her phone/Internet is annoying and somewhat fits what I would describe as a "trigger" to me in terms of how I respond. I can be having a great time, but once that damn buzz goes off indicating a notification of some type, I cringe and I'm "reminded" of the elephant in the room. The problem is...it goes off like 300 times a night (not exaggerating).

 

I've spoken with my mother about the situation and her support has (as always) been very supportive of me. She knows what I optimally want (a stronger, healthier marriage), but also is a realist and has noted that I need to focus on "re-finding me".

 

Perhaps one of the issues I struggle with the most is the fact that I feel like I need to be strong and find a way to make this work. I've put up with a lot, but isn't that what any marriage/relationship is about? Who am I to "give up"--especially on a person with whom I do care deeply about and vowed to stay with "for better/worse"?... As I said, I'm not overly-religious, but while my moral compass definitely tells me that my wife's behaviors are inappropriate, it also tells me that giving up on my marriage simply because it became challenging isn't right, either.

 

Again, I apologize for going radio silent for a few days, but I appreciate everyone's continued support/thoughts/experiences/opinions.

 

Finally, I do recognize that there has been a near-universal agreement in terms of how to handle this situation. I guess I just needed to clarify a bit about my own values/issues to see if that can lead anyone to further help me.

 

Thank you.

[Abe Froman]

Lol bufo!

 

I said run. I didn't say the relationship isn't salvageable. But right now it isnt. Physical stuff isn't you? Don't you see that you've forced yourself into a situation where the only way to stay is by changing who you are fundamentally?

 

If you don't respect yourself how can you expect her to?

 

I'm not saying run because there isn't a chance at repair. I'm saying run because that's your only strategy for respect. Show your self that you value you enough to say enough and mean it.

 

Are you familiar with the business concept of sunk cost fallacy? It might be worth googling.

 

NTV--

 

I have really valued your contributions here tremendously, so I thought I would single you out for this comment, in particular.

 

First, I teach Business, so I'm very familiar with the concept of sunk cost and I understand very well the mindset that just because I've invested a significant portion of my time/energy/money/self into this relationship that it doesn't mean that the ship is not sinking.

 

To use another business metaphor, however, I almost wonder if a "reorganization" of some sort is a way to potentially stave off utter collapse. That is why I've hired the "consultant" (i.e., the MC) to see if we can try to cut off the unprofitable areas and focus on what really made us successful in the first place.

 

I haven't noted it in any of my earlier posts, but my perspective on decision-making in our marriage has always been:

 

1.If it's something that for sure benefits my wife and I, then bring it up to her and suggest it or act on it.

 

2. If it's something that might benefit us or I believe we need to consider it, then we'll talk about it.

 

3. If it's something that will hurt my wife and I, then I should quash it before even worrying about bringing it up to her.

 

In other words, do the things that strengthen our marriage, avoid the things that don't, and really make a mutual decision about those neutral things in the middle.

[Abe Froman]

I am not impressed with your wife’s behavior nor your MC. There is a difference in her having friends and having an emotional relationship, which she has admitted she would like to be physical. You may agree on many issues, but to me my wife carrying on this bizarro world relationship, would be a deal breaker. You can continue this as long as you like, but there is no way for it to get better as she admits to no wrong and is validated by her counselor. How has her new relationship affected your intimacy? Do you too have date nights?

 

This was a point that I had failed to address in my earlier posts--

 

Yes, we still have date nights and routinely get along quite well. I will attest that the intimacy issue has been a bit impacted (simply because neither of us really wants to be intimate after an argument/fight--which have been occurring far more frequently than before).

 

I'm not sure that the MC is necessarily "validating" her now that I've attended a few more sessions with her (especially in IC settings). Instead, I think she's focused on identifying what might be fundamental differences between us--which, honestly, I'm not sure necessarily is a question of "right/wrong" but "different".

[NTV]

It's good to hear from you Abe! I'm glad the MC has warmed up and is addressing things with a better touch on reality. I had deep concerns when she had originally take your wayward wife's side that she may not apply common sense in her counseling. This shift their is relieving to me, so I'm sure it's relieving to you.

 

 

So, I'd like to address some of the things you spoke about.

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------

The biggest one is that you have been called an enabler (even by your counselor) and see separation and divorce as giving up. There are unmarried couples all over the world who love each other just as much and just as deeply as married couples. Divorce doesn't mean giving up on her.

 

 

One of the saying I heard when I discovered my wife's cheating and I hope you truly hear this too is: "My love didn't stop her from cheating, it won't stop me from divorcing her if she won't stop."

 

 

I'm suggesting you take this stance for multiple reasons. The first and foremost is that upon discovering infidelity, it's a massive hit to the self-esteem ego. Being able to have a true line in the sand will do wonders to regain a piece of that.

 

 

The idea of you giving up on her is preposterous and her telling you that's what you're doing is even moreso. Isn't she the one giving up on you? Why is anything on her phone more important than you are?

--------------------

 

 

As far as your wife not thinking what she's doing is cheating... well that's certainly convenient for her, isn't it? I wonder if she decided that it isn't cheating before or after she did it?

 

 

-------------------

I'll be honest, as a BH, when I read not just friends, it sounded like common sense. There was no new information in it for me.

 

 

But I think you may get more out of a booklet called "no more Mr. Nice Guy". And no, it's not about turning yourself into a jerk or the stupid alpha / beta male philosophy scam. Is some of it vague and generalized? oh yeah. I found some broad sweeping generalizations in no more Mr. Nice guy to make entire paragraphs unusable. But overall I think it will help you out greatly.

 

 

---------------------

Trip to the convention. I suggest you find a way to go WITH her. Not because you don't trust her, but because you want to show interest in the things she loves. Shared interests are shared time and shared attention which may bring you closer together.

 

 

--------------------

As far as the universal agreement, we all agree she's cheating and that you need to take a hard stance. A soft or forgiving stance here will only lead to continuing or repeating transgressions. Infidelity IS a real reason for divorce. It just is. There is no reason you can't use her cheating as the reason why you divorce her right now.

 

 

But you don't want to. I get that. That's okay not to want to. What we are suggesting you do is to see an attorney so you know how that game is played. Your wife may already know. How easy is it to beat someone at a game they don't know how to play? So my suggestion is that you should educate yourself. For your safety. You don't need to tell her you're doing it, because you don't want her afraid you will if you have no intention. You don't want to distract her from any work she's doing on herself with it.

 

 

That's it. No hidden agenda. No ulterior motive. No judgment or condemnation on your decision to work it out. I chose to reconcile with my wife after she cheated, and I'd say my wife's actions were more extreme, I have no leg to judge your decision on.

[NTV]

NTV--

 

I have really valued your contributions here tremendously, so I thought I would single you out for this comment, in particular.

 

First, I teach Business, so I'm very familiar with the concept of sunk cost and I understand very well the mindset that just because I've invested a significant portion of my time/energy/money/self into this relationship that it doesn't mean that the ship is not sinking.

 

To use another business metaphor, however, I almost wonder if a "reorganization" of some sort is a way to potentially stave off utter collapse. That is why I've hired the "consultant" (i.e., the MC) to see if we can try to cut off the unprofitable areas and focus on what really made us successful in the first place.

 

I haven't noted it in any of my earlier posts, but my perspective on decision-making in our marriage has always been:

 

1.If it's something that for sure benefits my wife and I, then bring it up to her and suggest it or act on it.

 

2. If it's something that might benefit us or I believe we need to consider it, then we'll talk about it.

 

3. If it's something that will hurt my wife and I, then I should quash it before even worrying about bringing it up to her.

 

In other words, do the things that strengthen our marriage, avoid the things that don't, and really make a mutual decision about those neutral things in the middle.

 

 

 

Abe, sorry, I was so busy writing my short story-length response to your update I missed this.

 

 

So, I brought up the sunk costs for two reasons:

1, if all those little loving things you did for her, (fav candy, running to the store to get something, etc) didn't stop her from cheating, then it didn't mean anything to her. So... some may be habits, but all in all, the effort there is futile.

 

 

2, your relationship history didn't stop her from cheating, so it's not valuable to her either.

 

 

As far as your decision-making process in your marriage? That's spot on correct. I think the flaw isn't your process, but your partner not committing to the same process. But I want you to consider the things you invest into the marriage for the near future (not long term) under these two conditions:

 

 

1 - did I do it in the past? If so, did it stop her from cheating?

If the answer is yes for the first and no for the second, then don't bother investing the time/energy where you won't see any returns.

 

 

2 - Would she do this for me?

If the answer is no, then don't do it for her.

 

 

Right now your position is 'show me why this relationship is worth it'. Your batna is divorce. (another reason to look into divorce info).

 

 

 

 

I hope that makes sense.

[NTV]

Sorry, I meant to add that you NA in the BATNA should include a postnup.

[Bufo]

Have you investigated via phone records or text records how it came to be that after you told her to go on her trip the OM was suddenly also going to attend?

If she lies to you about that, then you are well and truly dealing with a WW still deep in the affair mentality. You say you aren't worried about a transition to a PA but I suspect some months ago you weren't worried about an E A either.

 

Second, what did MC have to say about her desire to have sex with OM? That statement is about the biggest red flag I've seen in a couple years of lurking and finally posting here. What does she say about it? Desire plus opportunity equals sex.

[BettyDraper]

She's 29 and I'm just shy of 36. Yes, she married when she was "younger" (22) and I have sometimes taken the role of "guide" in our marriage. I feel a moral obligation to help her as she's battled depression, anxiety, rage, and all the problems that go along with such mental health issues (time management, repeated job loss, inability to get out of bed, libido issues, low self-esteem, etc.). I hope this doesn't smack of arrogance (though, it probably does), but I'm not sure anyone else could love her more than I do and that's part of the reason I believe we should stay together.

 

Mental health issues are no reason to cheat on your spouse.

I have struggled with Complex PTSD and depression. I still do not reach out to other men or sext with anyone except my husband.

 

You cannot help someone who doesn't want to improve nor can you have a happy marriage with someone who clearly has no respect for your vows. You shouldn't have to watch her like a hawk to make sure that she doesn't cheat. She's a grown woman who should be able to manage her own behavior and character.

 

I once had a an old friend from high school reach out to me on Facebook. He was complimenting me and saying that he wanted to meet for a drink when he was in the same city. I politely declined while graciously accepting the compliments. I immediately told my husband about this and offered to show my hubby the messages. My husband refused to look at our conversations because he said he "wasn't going to live like that" and since I told him about the messages right away, my husband trusted me not to do anything that was inappropriate.

 

I can't see how marriage counseling would help when you are married to a serial cheater. If you want to stay in this marriage, your wife needs individual counseling. You also need to put your foot down and let her know what will not be tolerated.

Edited May 18, 2016 by BettyDraper

[elaine567]

 

My wife and I still live together, sleep in the same bed, and (mostly) enjoy our times. Obviously, her connection to her phone/Internet is annoying and somewhat fits what I would describe as a "trigger" to me in terms of how I respond. I can be having a great time, but once that damn buzz goes off indicating a notification of some type, I cringe and I'm "reminded" of the elephant in the room. The problem is...it goes off like 300 times a night (not exaggerating).

 

 

Get her to turn off the app notifications, as it is a trigger for you, then she should be prepared to comply.

Her marriage is at stake here, apps notifications are surely secondary?

[Abe Froman]

Have you investigated via phone records or text records how it came to be that after you told her to go on her trip the OM was suddenly also going to attend?

If she lies to you about that, then you are well and truly dealing with a WW still deep in the affair mentality. You say you aren't worried about a transition to a PA but I suspect some months ago you weren't worried about an E A either.

 

Second, what did MC have to say about her desire to have sex with OM? That statement is about the biggest red flag I've seen in a couple years of lurking and finally posting here. What does she say about it? Desire plus opportunity equals sex.

 

Bufo--

 

Thanks for the question and I apologize for not specifically addressing it as I know you have raised it previously.

 

The trip/convention is an annual one and she wanted to go last year (before she even met the cosplayer/AP). She was highly disappointed at that time, so her desire to attend wasn't predicated on specifically meeting him there or anything like that. What made her really excited this time around is that one of her female friends was going to attend (from Ireland, no less) and she really wanted to take the opportunity to meet so many of the people she's talked with online for over a year.

 

Even though I'm a worry-wart and hate to be away from my wife (this will be our longest separation since we got married and it's only 3 days), I truly know that the AP's presence was not a deciding factor in her decision to attend. In fact, she only found out that he was planning on attending probably 2-3 weeks after the fact as he was invited by the event planners to cosplay his character at the convention at that time.

 

I know how "shady" the situation looks (trust me... I've thought about it quite a bit), but I really do think this component is on the up-and-up.

 

As to the MC's response to my wife acknowledging to noting that she "would, if given permission", it was an eye-opening experience for her (the MC). She has referenced it a few times and my wife even said that she truly apologized for saying it and that it was in a "fit of rage". When asked about it again, she said that she no longer (and "never really") meant it. I accepted the apology, but the MC does think that it's still a potential problem in that she may still have such feelings as it came up during my IC with her today as a way to note that my wife has a different perspective than I do.

 

Of course, all of this is not something I would have anticipated handling, but one cannot possibly prepare for every contingency (as much as I would like to try--again... I'm a worrier). I do recognize the need to be cognizant of what's going on and not bury my head in the sand entirely--I also, however, want to continue to be the best "me" I can be (and I believe that means being a good partner in the interim).

[Abe Froman]

Mental health issues are no reason to cheat on your spouse.

I have struggled with Complex PTSD and depression. I still do not reach out to other men or sext with anyone except my husband.

 

You cannot help someone who doesn't want to improve nor can you have a happy marriage with someone who clearly has no respect for your vows. You shouldn't have to watch her like a hawk to make sure that she doesn't cheat. She's a grown woman who should be able to manage her own behavior and character.

 

I once had a an old friend from high school reach out to me on Facebook. He was complimenting me and saying that he wanted to meet for a drink when he was in the same city. I politely declined while graciously accepting the compliments. I immediately told my husband about this and offered to show my hubby the messages. My husband refused to look at our conversations because he said he "wasn't going to live like that" and since I told him about the messages right away, my husband trusted me not to do anything that was inappropriate.

 

I can't see how marriage counseling would help when you are married to a serial cheater. If you want to stay in this marriage, your wife needs individual counseling. You also need to put your foot down and let her know what will not be tolerated.

 

Thank you for the response. I noted our new "boundaries" that were established in my IC/MC session earlier today and emailed my wife. Her response via text (she's at work) was "we'll talk about it when I get home."

 

I also suggested that if she is resentful or doesn't like the approach, she's more than welcome to talk and/or schedule an IC session with our MC.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Abe Froman
syntax

[Abe Froman]

Get her to turn off the app notifications, as it is a trigger for you, then she should be prepared to comply.

Her marriage is at stake here, apps notifications are surely secondary?

 

It's likely a step that's coming...we'll see how tonight goes with the new boundaries/restrictions. Somehow methinks she's not going to be too happy and I'm really going to need to suck it up and hold the line.