Women supporting women?

[elaine567]

Someone who didn't consider what he was getting into, never thought beyond the moment he was in, and thoroughly enjoyed his gratuitous activities with the common philosophy that 'what you don't know can't hurt you'. It really is that simple for many!

 

'I'll be careful, I won't get caught, and she'll never know so it's all good! For ME....

 

He was absolutely mortified when he saw what that REALLY meant.....

 

^^^ this is what I really do not get.

Small children know when they do something "wrong", they may be prepared to take the risk, they may not believe they will get caught, but they know if they do it, it is "wrong".

So I don't really buy all this,

"I didn't know what I was getting into",

"I didn't realise anyone would get hurt",

"I didn't get the enormity of it all."

 

These are intelligent people, grown men who earn livings, buy houses and run businesses, are they really suggesting that they truly didn't know that cavorting in another woman's bed is "wrong" and so are "mortified" when they are caught out.

I get "mortified", but what I don't get is the justification through "innocence" - I truly didn't know that what I was doing was so "wrong"...

[waterwoman]

 

These are intelligent people, grown men who earn livings, buy houses and run businesses, are they really suggesting that they truly didn't know that cavorting in another woman's bed is "wrong" and so are "mortified" when they are caught out.

I get "mortified", but what I don't get is the justification through "innocence" - I truly didn't know that what I was doing was so "wrong"...

 

You can pretend it's not wrong if you can justify it. If you convince yourself you they aren't loved enough. aren't appreciated enough. that it's just a bit of fun to relieve the tedium of adult life and all the boring hard work or being a spouse/parent. I've seen it here often enough - the MM is neglected and that makes it OK. Even...and this is a doozy .... MM has spent his whole life looking after everyone else and now he's having an affair that is just for him. As if an affair is like a spa day or a golfing holiday as a reward for behaving like a normal person.

[jenkins95]

It would be foolish to argue with anything that you've said Elaine - you are quite right.

 

It really can feel like cloudcockoo has described it - it did to me, but that is a weak excuse, I agree. I think that part of it is a coping mechanism - we are faced with the horror of what we've done. If we don't attribute at least part of it to basic innocence and stupidity, then we have to face the reality that we are just plain bad people. And many of us are not prepared to do that.

 

 

 

^^^ this is what I really do not get.

Small children know when they do something "wrong", they may be prepared to take the risk, they may not believe they will get caught, but they know if they do it, it is "wrong".

So I don't really buy all this,

"I didn't know what I was getting into",

"I didn't realise anyone would get hurt",

"I didn't get the enormity of it all."

 

These are intelligent people, grown men who earn livings, buy houses and run businesses, are they really suggesting that they truly didn't know that cavorting in another woman's bed is "wrong" and so are "mortified" when they are caught out.

I get "mortified", but what I don't get is the justification through "innocence" - I truly didn't know that what I was doing was so "wrong"...

[jenkins95]

Yes - I completely relate to this too, waterwoman. In my case, I had suffered 7 years of depression. Some of the reasons for this were due to differences in life goals between my W and me, but that's in another thread - I won't go into it here. When I felt better, I now see that I was vulnerable to having an affair - which indeed did happen. I was suddenly happy again and felt that I had lots of catching up to do, having been like a hermit socially for a long time. I now also see that I felt I "deserved" it, it was my little adventure, for having got through the depression and letting my wife have her way with other issues that had partly led to the depression in the first place.

 

The terribly tragic thing about all this, is that there almost certainly wouldn't have been an affair, and very likely no depression (or at least much less than 7 years), if I had simply talked openly about my issues as and when they had arisen - communicated!

 

Anyone who has problems with conflict avoidance, bad communications skills, etc, please use me and my train crash as a warning! Just talk! Please! I am now finding that it isn't so difficult if you try!

 

You can pretend it's not wrong if you can justify it. If you convince yourself you they aren't loved enough. aren't appreciated enough. that it's just a bit of fun to relieve the tedium of adult life and all the boring hard work or being a spouse/parent. I've seen it here often enough - the MM is neglected and that makes it OK. Even...and this is a doozy .... MM has spent his whole life looking after everyone else and now he's having an affair that is just for him. As if an affair is like a spa day or a golfing holiday as a reward for behaving like a normal person.

Edited May 16, 2016 by jenkins95

[Got it]

I think what isn't being included is the married women who have affairs. That is a large subset of the females in affairs and so are on the same playing field as the married men. I was a MW. Why did I cheat? Because I was done with the marriage, lost respect for it, and we had pretty separate lives. I no longer cared about the gamble and any time you enter into an affair (or anything you know you both aren't going to be onboard about you are weighing the risk), you think the end justifies the means.

 

Now this doesn't negate the belief that one doesn't think they will be discovered, their spouse won't care, etc. But I throw out to any AP that the risk did not cross your mind at least fleetingly. And there is almost always an element of "I deserve this" or some level of reward to go down this road.

 

In regards to women supporting women, why? We don't say men should support men? I can see the argument to support others/both genders, and so not wanting to hurt but this simplistic idea that MM=bad, OW/BS= victims is just too simplistic. There are lots of grey in affairs and rarely is it so clear.

 

I am not particularly loved by his ex wife and understandable; I wouldn't expect her to.

[Cloudcuckoo]

^^^ this is what I really do not get.

Small children know when they do something "wrong", they may be prepared to take the risk, they may not believe they will get caught, but they know if they do it, it is "wrong".

So I don't really buy all this,

"I didn't know what I was getting into",

"I didn't realise anyone would get hurt",

"I didn't get the enormity of it all."

 

These are intelligent people, grown men who earn livings, buy houses and run businesses, are they really suggesting that they truly didn't know that cavorting in another woman's bed is "wrong" and so are "mortified" when they are caught out.

I get "mortified", but what I don't get is the justification through "innocence" - I truly didn't know that what I was doing was so "wrong"...

 

Absolutely Elaine, that's the very crux of the matter..they DO know...but it can't be allowed to permeate the selfish need for immediate gratification so that voice of 'conscience' is silenced by stuffing into the darkest vault in the subconscious.

 

Until the proverbial hits the fan....THEN the consequences of doing so tend to rocket them back to reality with a very nasty thump..

[wmacbride]

No, I wanted to add it just as it is said. I believed we were special and it would work out, but that was foolishness because we ended up in a same situation as all others.

 

I believe most people believe they are in a special and unique relationship, which is why they go against their gut.

 

I have no need to compete with other women, never have. In fact, I protected the BS once I fully understood the situation. She is happy in her life, just as I wanted her to be. There was no drama, no dday, no altered reality for her. I am sorry you don't seem to like or respect women, mrldii. That is unfortunate. But, I do.

 

That right there is really important.

We all do this, for a variety of reasons. We lie to ourselves.

 

If we would just learn to trust oursleves, it could save a lot of heartache.

[wmacbride]

Of course the married person carries the majority of the fault and responsibility for an affair. No question there.

 

But seriously are you expecting OWs and BSs to 'support each other' solely on the basis of both having XX chromosomes??? That's daft.

 

I don't think support should be based on the fact that the bs/ow are both female, but more that they are both human.

 

When I see ow hurt and angry ( understandably) because they feel the mm lied them about that state of his marriage, that he was going to leave, etc. I always wonder where that sense of indignation about the lying mm was when he was lying to his bs?

Does an ow consider this, or do they do their best to push it out of their minds and pretend it doesn't happen?

Many times, bs are reminded that they should feel pity for the ow, as she was lied to as well. Not to be rude, but that pity doesn't matter at all, except maybe to the ow, if it's not acted upon

[NTV]

You know, I've been thinking about a lot of what has been said on this thread, and I think that women should support women more... and I think the best way for them to do so is to randomly inform each other that NTV is handsome and stunning in ways unbelievable if not seen in person. I think the impact on morale would improve dramatically, AND you would be more united through common interest and purpose.

 

 

Just something to think about anyways.

[Got it]

I don't think support should be based on the fact that the bs/ow are both female, but more that they are both human.

 

When I see ow hurt and angry ( understandably) because they feel the mm lied them about that state of his marriage, that he was going to leave, etc. I always wonder where that sense of indignation about the lying mm was when he was lying to his bs?

Does an ow consider this, or do they do their best to push it out of their minds and pretend it doesn't happen?

Many times, bs are reminded that they should feel pity for the ow, as she was lied to as well. Not to be rude, but that pity doesn't matter at all, except maybe to the ow, if it's not acted upon

 

Because you believe (both male and female) what your romantic partner is telling you. Same if you are with someone that you know lies to others/coworkers, etc but you tend to believe what they tell you. You want to believe the person you have a vested interest in - that is common and pretty normal.

 

Also I think for the AP, there is a feeling that there really wasn't a reason to lie to them. That the affair is on a level playing field and each person is coming into it on the same page.

 

In my affair we were both married so both on similar playing field. I did assume he was telling me the truth, I was truthful with him, but also knew he could be lying so believed but verified I believe is the saying. I didn't just believe words but watched his actions.

 

But how pragmatic someone is really depends on personality. Some are far more romantic and just believe people more. Sometimes people believe what they want to believe.

[Got it]

That right there is really important.

We all do this, for a variety of reasons. We lie to ourselves.

 

If we would just learn to trust oursleves, it could save a lot of heartache.

 

I think what is missing is their gut is conflicted. They have heartburn over the affair but they also believe that the relationship/affair is worth it. So they aren't ignoring their gut but having done a risk/reward analysis believe that it is worth pursuing. They, though, are not able to really appreciate the pain that can come at the end (as emotions are hard to really "feel" until in the thick of it) and so are minimized over the immediate feelings.

[Got it]

You know, I've been thinking about a lot of what has been said on this thread, and I think that women should support women more... and I think the best way for them to do so is to randomly inform each other that NTV is handsome and stunning in ways unbelievable if not seen in person. I think the impact on morale would improve dramatically, AND you would be more united through common interest and purpose.

 

 

Just something to think about anyways.

 

Why? Why is it up to women to make men stay faithful? I find this notion so insulting to men as well as women as if we are the gatekeepers of someone else's monogamy. Just like the BS is not responsible for the WS straying neither is the OW. The WS is of sound body and mind and is making/owning their decision.

 

This is across the board for both sexes. Each person is solely responsible for their decision, opinions and feelings and it is up to them. While others can contribute it does not negate one's ownership over it.

[wmacbride]

Because you believe (both male and female) what your romantic partner is telling you. Same if you are with someone that you know lies to others/coworkers, etc but you tend to believe what they tell you. You want to believe the person you have a vested interest in - that is common and pretty normal.

 

Also I think for the AP, there is a feeling that there really wasn't a reason to lie to them. That the affair is on a level playing field and each person is coming into it on the same page.

 

In my affair we were both married so both on similar playing field. I did assume he was telling me the truth, I was truthful with him, but also knew he could be lying so believed but verified I believe is the saying. I didn't just believe words but watched his actions.

 

But how pragmatic someone is really depends on personality. Some are far more romantic and just believe people more. Sometimes people believe what they want to believe.

 

I see what you mean, but that's not really what I meant.

 

What I meant was how there is this sense of indignation, both in the ow an those who are " sympathetic" to the ow when a mm lies to her.

.He gets called all sorts of names, etc. and the question is aksed about how are he lie and hurt her that way. what a horrible person he is!

 

all one needs to do is read the threads on here to find countless examples of this.

 

where was that same sense of outrage when he was lying to his bs? why are those lies acceptable?

 

is this an honour among thieves type of thing?

[NTV]

Why? Why is it up to women to make men stay faithful? I find this notion so insulting to men as well as women as if we are the gatekeepers of someone else's monogamy. Just like the BS is not responsible for the WS straying neither is the OW. The WS is of sound body and mind and is making/owning their decision.

 

This is across the board for both sexes. Each person is solely responsible for their decision, opinions and feelings and it is up to them. While others can contribute it does not negate one's ownership over it.

 

 

 

Not sure how you got from my joke about how good-looking I am to a statement saying women are responsible for male fidelity.

 

 

Of course women aren't responsible for a man who cheats. If a man wants to cheat, he will find a way. Just like if a woman wants to cheat, she will find a way. Normally, the affair partner be it OW or OM just happened to meet their requirements at the time, and could have been one of several partners. Usually both sexes come up with some bullshi* excuse for doing it, but that doesn't mean there is any good reason.... in fact I have yet to see a cheating spouse NOT try to shift blame to someone else--at least initially.

 

 

But all this is pretty much a given. I haven't cheated on my WW despite MANY opportunities AND the crushed self-esteem of being betrayed. Why? I didn't want to. It was about me. If I did want to there is nothing she could do about it. I couldn't do anything to keep her faithful and I can't do anything to make her cheat. That decision is up to her.

 

 

I'm not saying that being angry at the AP isn't often times easier than facing the inner conflict of being angry at someone I love. But I've given up any real emotion towards them. The revenge/justice I was mentioning earlier was more about... I don't know, inflicting social consequences and righting a perceived wrong. Chances are, since they're both older and (IMO) dumbas*es, I'll just end up pissing on their tombstones as final retribution.

 

 

But you ladies really should understand one very important thing in all this that hasn't really been considered... viewing me in real life is a life-altering event. My good looks would make Homer re-write the Odyssey and Descartes change his philosophy to 'he's handsome therefore he is.' That one factor should probably sway this entire conversation to my point of view.

[anika99]

Why? Why is it up to women to make men stay faithful? I find this notion so insulting to men as well as women as if we are the gatekeepers of someone else's monogamy. Just like the BS is not responsible for the WS straying neither is the OW. The WS is of sound body and mind and is making/owning their decision.

 

This is across the board for both sexes. Each person is solely responsible for their decision, opinions and feelings and it is up to them. While others can contribute it does not negate one's ownership over it.

 

You found this light hearted humor by NTV, which had nothing to do with faithfulness and monogamy, insulting? I don't get the impression that he meant anything offensive, I thought it was funny, lol.

 

Personally I do think the MM is most at fault for the pain they cause their betrayed spouse and children. However I don't get justifying getting involved with an MM because the OW believed what he told her. I mean who cares what his sad story is?. To me getting involved with a married man is a line in the sand that I just won't cross, I don't care what the state of his marriage is or if he still has sex with his wife or if they are leading seperate lives or whatever, if you are married and living at home then I am not interested. I know people will say they didn't mean to get emotionally involved, it just snuck up on them, but that's not really true either. When you have strong boundaries surrounding married people and your involvement with them, then there are no opportunities to emotionally bond with them.

[anika99]

Again, I do think it is unrealistic to imagine that all women would stand together, but if we did, cheaters who engage in cheating and see the women as collateral damage would have no one left afterwards--no plan A or plan B. And the problem of infidelity would greatly diminish.

 

But as it stands, women always believe cheaters. I see OW and BW as equally responsible, valuing the relationship over respect and integrity.

 

Afterwards? But if all women stood together, then there would be no afterwards as there would be no opportunities for the MM to cheat unless he convinced some poor victim that he was single. That's why your premis falls apart. Because you seem to think that a woman should stand together with you after you have messed with her husband and assisted him in destroying his family, but you didn't seem to want to stand together with her, before or during the affair. You took a shot at getting what you wanted and when you didn't hit pay dirt then you thought she should stand with you. That's pretty hypocritical.

[jenkins95]

Not sure how you got from my joke about how good-looking I am to a statement saying women are responsible for male fidelity.

 

 

Of course women aren't responsible for a man who cheats. If a man wants to cheat, he will find a way. Just like if a woman wants to cheat, she will find a way. Normally, the affair partner be it OW or OM just happened to meet their requirements at the time, and could have been one of several partners. Usually both sexes come up with some bullshi* excuse for doing it, but that doesn't mean there is any good reason.... in fact I have yet to see a cheating spouse NOT try to shift blame to someone else--at least initially.

 

 

But all this is pretty much a given. I haven't cheated on my WW despite MANY opportunities AND the crushed self-esteem of being betrayed. Why? I didn't want to. It was about me. If I did want to there is nothing she could do about it. I couldn't do anything to keep her faithful and I can't do anything to make her cheat. That decision is up to her.

 

 

I'm not saying that being angry at the AP isn't often times easier than facing the inner conflict of being angry at someone I love. But I've given up any real emotion towards them. The revenge/justice I was mentioning earlier was more about... I don't know, inflicting social consequences and righting a perceived wrong. Chances are, since they're both older and (IMO) dumbas*es, I'll just end up pissing on their tombstones as final retribution.

 

 

But you ladies really should understand one very important thing in all this that hasn't really been considered... viewing me in real life is a life-altering event. My good looks would make Homer re-write the Odyssey and Descartes change his philosophy to 'he's handsome therefore he is.' That one factor should probably sway this entire conversation to my point of view.

 

I take it we are talking here about Homer Simpson?

[NTV]

I take it we are talking here about Homer Simpson?

 

 

 

yeah, either/or.

[cocorico]

I've never bought into the "women supporting women" mantra. I don't know why. It just seems so odd to me that because I have the same gender as somebody else, it's either up to them to support me or up to me to support them. If I'm extending myself to somebody, I'm not going to do it because we are the same sex, it's because you've proven yourself to me as somebody worth my supporting.

 

 

In the case of an affair, honestly, I don't need the "women supporting women" baloney. If the only thing keeping you from trying to have an affair with my husband is the fact that I'm a woman and this is some grand "women supporting women" gesture, I'll pass. Because honestly, that feels icky.

 

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, though, the OW doesn't owe me anything.

 

 

My husband is a dang catch. I know that. I'm more inclined to suspect that women will want to sleep with him or steal him away vs. not wanting to do so out of some sort of loyalty to me, a random woman they've more often than not never even met.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, women of the world can want whatever they want out of my husband. Fall in love with him, beg him to leave me, even give him the full court press because he is one hell of a guy and you know he's done it before and think he'd do it again for you. Go for it, you have my 100% blessing.

 

 

They won't get anywhere though. My husband doesn't want anybody else, he just wants me, and our marriage is rock solid. So the most beautiful woman can parade herself in front of him and promise him the sex of his life, no strings attached while secretly intending on locking him in and pressuring him to leave me, and the only thing that would happen would be he'd come home and say to me "Holy cow, you won't even guess what happened to me today."

 

 

Women owe me nothing. My husband, however, he owes me quite a lot. A woman can want an affair with him, but it's up to him to accept her advances in order for the affair to start. Or, flip side, it's up to him to pursue a woman in order to engage an affair. Even the thirstiest girl in the world doesn't stand a chance when the man she's chasing down doesn't want her.

 

 

If something happens, my gripe is with him and how he didn't value our marriage or me, not some random Becky who I never expected to care about me or our family.

 

 

The "sisterhood" of women? That's a baloney thing. It doesn't exist. Relying on it to keep your marriage safe is a total mistake. Marriage? Now that's a thing, that's the thing you have to work on, your partner is the one you have to rely on to prevent the affairs.

 

 

That's why I will never, ever get why, in all these threads and forums and stories, so many people focus on putting the OW in her place because she was somehow more at fault. Yeah, he was a jerk for cheating, but she, SHE was the one who made him leave me, SHE was the one who pushed for a full relationship, SHE was the one who broke up our family! The reality should be the reverse... Yeah, she's whatever you want to call her, but she didn't owe you anything. Your beef should be at him.

 

 

 

I think a BS being angry is natural, but wasting time and effort getting to her is misdirected energy. She's not going to save your marriage by leaving. Your wandering husband will save the marriage by not going back and you by learning to trust him again because you know the marriage is fixed, or at least being actively repaired.

 

 

If the first thing you do is drive her off and then work on him and the marriage, you're not fixing the problem that will inevitably leave the door cracked for OW 2, or the return of OW 1 when he puts together a better argument for him than you do.

 

 

Now I know the next question will be "but you said it's not all his fault if he cheats..." Well, it's not all his fault. If my husband cheats, it's the fault of him, her, and our broken marriage and my relationship with him. But again, I expect more of him than I expect of her. It's both of their faults the affair occurred, but he was the only one who owed me enough that he should have known better.

 

Could not agree more.

[Got it]

I see what you mean, but that's not really what I meant.

 

What I meant was how there is this sense of indignation, both in the ow an those who are " sympathetic" to the ow when a mm lies to her.

.He gets called all sorts of names, etc. and the question is aksed about how are he lie and hurt her that way. what a horrible person he is!

 

all one needs to do is read the threads on here to find countless examples of this.

 

where was that same sense of outrage when he was lying to his bs? why are those lies acceptable?

 

is this an honour among thieves type of thing?

 

Who are you talking about? Who is this crowd of people? Are you speaking of the OW? Well of course she is at some level indignant, she did get hurt by him so it is a normal process when being rejected. I think the reaction runs the gamut though and many are pretty pragmatic about what happens and while hurt and feeling taken advantage of lick their wounds on their own.

 

To what people post online? Well what do you expect? People, all people, like to feel supported especially when dealing with hurt feelings. So on a board that is GEARED towards OW/OM their is an expectation that you will get some support and not roasted at the stake. Call me crazy but that seems pretty appropriate.

[Got it]

Not sure how you got from my joke about how good-looking I am to a statement saying women are responsible for male fidelity.

 

 

Of course women aren't responsible for a man who cheats. If a man wants to cheat, he will find a way. Just like if a woman wants to cheat, she will find a way. Normally, the affair partner be it OW or OM just happened to meet their requirements at the time, and could have been one of several partners. Usually both sexes come up with some bullshi* excuse for doing it, but that doesn't mean there is any good reason.... in fact I have yet to see a cheating spouse NOT try to shift blame to someone else--at least initially.

 

 

But all this is pretty much a given. I haven't cheated on my WW despite MANY opportunities AND the crushed self-esteem of being betrayed. Why? I didn't want to. It was about me. If I did want to there is nothing she could do about it. I couldn't do anything to keep her faithful and I can't do anything to make her cheat. That decision is up to her.

 

 

I'm not saying that being angry at the AP isn't often times easier than facing the inner conflict of being angry at someone I love. But I've given up any real emotion towards them. The revenge/justice I was mentioning earlier was more about... I don't know, inflicting social consequences and righting a perceived wrong. Chances are, since they're both older and (IMO) dumbas*es, I'll just end up pissing on their tombstones as final retribution.

 

 

But you ladies really should understand one very important thing in all this that hasn't really been considered... viewing me in real life is a life-altering event. My good looks would make Homer re-write the Odyssey and Descartes change his philosophy to 'he's handsome therefore he is.' That one factor should probably sway this entire conversation to my point of view.

 

Sorry NTV, I think I quote the wrong post on women supporting women.

 

And you are right, if we stayed focused on your good looks and what you bring to the table we may all get along much better.

 

And as an English major I greatly appreciate your references. I can see why all of womankind should take notice of you.

[Got it]

You found this light hearted humor by NTV, which had nothing to do with faithfulness and monogamy, insulting? I don't get the impression that he meant anything offensive, I thought it was funny, lol.

 

Personally I do think the MM is most at fault for the pain they cause their betrayed spouse and children. However I don't get justifying getting involved with an MM because the OW believed what he told her. I mean who cares what his sad story is?. To me getting involved with a married man is a line in the sand that I just won't cross, I don't care what the state of his marriage is or if he still has sex with his wife or if they are leading seperate lives or whatever, if you are married and living at home then I am not interested. I know people will say they didn't mean to get emotionally involved, it just snuck up on them, but that's not really true either. When you have strong boundaries surrounding married people and your involvement with them, then there are no opportunities to emotionally bond with them.

 

Yes I misquoted, thank you.

 

In regards to the rest, okay good for you. Again, I was a MW who got involved with a MM. We were no different in regards to how we were approaching things and our level of "disrespect". It was not a practice of ours but I guess you could simplistically say we saw the other person as the exception to the rule.

 

I own every one of my decisions and actions. Outside of the attraction which did hit me, everything else was a conscious decision I made and everything I own.

[Furious]

I remember when I was pretty young--about 20--watching an episode of Oprah. A woman was on, and she was wrapped up in a love triangle with her husband and female cousin. Turns out they had let her cousin live with them for a while because the cousin was going through a tough time. The woman said, "I trusted her," and Oprah said back, "Girl, you NEVER allow an attractive woman to sleep near your husband! You just do not INVITE that temptation!" I agreed and thought, "How can a woman do that to another woman? Awful."

 

Fast-forward 30 years, and I see things much differently. It is not just because I have lived it, but it is also because I work closely with many married men. And I see things so much differently now; I have so much more information.

 

I used to believe that men were fundamentally faithful and content in marriage. I believed that men were lured or tempted by self-centered women, but that otherwise they were happy and satisfied with their wives. But now I know, those satisfied men make up only 15% of married men. I hear men at work talk when nobody is listening, and they drool with jealousy when male friends talk of flirting or sexual opportunity. Fidelity does not hold a candle to the fire of desire in their eyes. My MM confused me with talk of loving me, being devoted to his children but unhappy with his W. One thought played over and over in my mind. "If he loved his wife, why would he endanger that? Why would you leave what you love? His devotion to me must be true. He must be done with his marriage." I stupidly believed him. SO many OW have this same thought, completely confused by the fire of love in their MM's eyes and their devotion to courting us, their actions seeming to confirm this truth. "They obviously do not care about their wives to disrespect her this way."

 

I figured things out eventually and dumped my MM, began to understand that a "good man" is not one that would do this. I left my MM crying for me. He still periodically reaches out with "I miss yous" 5 years later, but I feel nothing and do not answer. I know now that he wanted his wife AND me, and he did not care how unfair that was to us. It is men that really seem to have the problem, not women. His wife did absolutely nothing wrong--she seems like a beautiful person and mom. And I almost crushed her!!! Because he had me convinced of an alternate reality where she was an obligation and I was his future!!! I am a smart woman with advanced degrees, but I had no idea that soft-spoken average looking men with adorable kids and busy schedules would be capable of showering me with such attention and warmth, all while planning to stay with his wife. Devastate two women? So that he could have sex and passion and attention? I could not have imagined him capable of such cold-blooded selfishness. He is a sweet guy, only had three girlfriends in his life. I actually never believed any of the middle-aged normal guys that I work with to be capable of the same callous lust for sex and attention, but I have witnessed countless affairs. These men were more than open to any oppprtunity. And THAT is how smart women are duped. We actually do not understand--cannot get our brain around--that you love your wife but are pursuing us! It feels obviously and totally impossible--just like it does to the wife on dday. If that is love, no thanks! So we think his marriage is indeed as he says--a minor technicality, all but over, simply for the kids. So stupid. Humiliatingly stupid.

 

It hurts me to see women blaming other women when I watch these guys year after year.

 

Married women think, "If it weren't for you OW, these guys would not be able to have affairs."

 

Other women think, "If women didn't stay with these jerks--valuing marriage over self-respect--then cheaters would not have wives."

 

When ALL women stop "believing," this abuse ends.

 

These guys are the problem, and they love the way women keep blaming each other. It gets them everything they want while we all suffer.

 

 

I don't believe it's a gender issue but more of a character issue. Unless someone is deceived into becoming an unknowing affair partner the "victim" argument is hypocritical.

[Girlfromcali]

I don't believe it's a gender issue but more of a character issue. Unless someone is deceived into becoming an unknowing affair partner the "victim" argument is hypocritical.

 

It is a character issue. My H would never cheat because that is the kind of man he is. It has nothing to do with me, or whether I'm a good wife or horrible.

 

He also has empathy so he wouldn't lead a woman on. Usually he includes me in the conversation so that won't happen. One time he accidentally lead a woman on without realizing it, and when she found out he was married, she got embarrassed. He said he felt bad because he didn't want to hurt her.

 

So the thought of him wanting some woman to fall in love with him to boost his own ego, is absurd.

 

There are a lot of cheaters, men and women with character flaws (me included). However, there are men and women who have different moral standards and it has nothing to do with gender. They don't hurt people because they have empathy, and they actually hold themselves with high standars.

 

They do the right thing because that's the kind of people they want to be in this world. It has nothing to with whether the other person treats them badly or whether they deserve it...it's about them and how they value themselves in this world.

Edited May 21, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[dubliner]

Yes! Living in the moment, no thoughts of consequences or where all this was going or how it would end. I relate to this 100%.

 

Again, I make no excuses for MMs. I was a complete POS to do what I did. But I reiterate the point that it wasn't all carefully and elaborately planned out and the OW was not deliberately manipulated and played. I was just another giant insect!

 

I cannot subscribe to this 'insect brain' 'living in the moment' 'no thought of consequences' idea for cheaters.

The lengths a cheater goes to cover their arse, the lying, manipulation, and gaslighting of the BS- burner phones, credit cards, A emails and messaging apps.... However you try and dress up the 'leave of senses' the fact remains that AP's are fully aware of the consequences, have VERY much taken them into consideration when launching into an A or else they wouldn't be so fastidious when it comes to protecting the A from discovery.

No one cheating can say the devastation to the M an affair causes is not very much on their mind every time they lied in order to meet the AP.