Women supporting women?

[jenkins95]

I cannot subscribe to this 'insect brain' 'living in the moment' 'no thought of consequences' idea for cheaters.

The lengths a cheater goes to cover their arse, the lying, manipulation, and gaslighting of the BS- burner phones, credit cards, A emails and messaging apps.... However you try and dress up the 'leave of senses' the fact remains that AP's are fully aware of the consequences, have VERY much taken them into consideration when launching into an A or else they wouldn't be so fastidious when it comes to protecting the A from discovery.

No one cheating can say the devastation to the M an affair causes is not very much on their mind every time they lied in order to meet the AP.

 

Yes, and I later amended this stance in reply to another post. I think we like to hide behind excuses like this because it's difficult to accept that we have been a complete POS. Easier to explain it off as naivety or sheer stupidity!

Edited May 16, 2016 by jenkins95

[wmacbride]

Who are you talking about? Who is this crowd of people? Are you speaking of the OW? Well of course she is at some level indignant, she did get hurt by him so it is a normal process when being rejected. I think the reaction runs the gamut though and many are pretty pragmatic about what happens and while hurt and feeling taken advantage of lick their wounds on their own.

 

To what people post online? Well what do you expect? People, all people, like to feel supported especially when dealing with hurt feelings. So on a board that is GEARED towards OW/OM their is an expectation that you will get some support and not roasted at the stake. Call me crazy but that seems pretty appropriate.

 

Sorry, I don't buy that argument.

 

How many times have mm or mw been portrayed as such horrible liars after an A ends because they lied to the ow/om, and that is not just on ow/om message boards and forums.

 

Is he not also lying to the bs? Why is lying in one situation okay, but not th other?

[Aniela]

Why not stand with the betrayed spouse in the first place, and not sleep with the husband at all? Aside from those who are tricked by men who pretend to be single.

 

I don't know how anyone trusts the cheater they're sleeping with. I was hit on more than once, by men in relationships, and I couldn't believe they didn't appreciate what they had.

[mrldii]

...I am sorry you don't seem to like or respect women, mrldii. That is unfortunate. But, I do.

 

Don't know where you got that...either from any of my posts in this thread, or from any posts I've made anywhere, while online...on this site, or any others.

 

Besides, *everyone's* well aware I'm a "feminist", ergo I "hate men", not women.

 

 

Oh, and by-the-by, I've never been the OW or in a relationship where my man cheated. Birds-of-feather, and all that good stuff.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP. I hope your pain stops soon.

[thecharade]

I work in a very large place, equal number of men and women. There are several men openly "looking" for an A. They have never had one before, but constantly joke about being on to the idea. Recently a guy I have known for 20 years said, "What's so great about so and so? I am as good looking as him. Why is nobody interested in me?" He has been married for 15 years and has two kids.

 

Can't really blame OW for these guys, can you?

 

That's my point.

No more OW.

No more forgiving wives.

These guys would be sunk.

 

It will take both sides to get the message across.

[NTV]

Don't know where you got that...either from any of my posts in this thread, or from any posts I've made anywhere, while online...on this site, or any others.

 

Besides, *everyone's* well aware I'm a "feminist", ergo I "hate men", not women.

 

 

Oh, and by-the-by, I've never been the OW or in a relationship where my man cheated. Birds-of-feather, and all that good stuff.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP. I hope your pain stops soon.

 

If you hate me, that's only because you haven't seen me.

[dubliner]

Don't know where you got that...either from any of my posts in this thread, or from any posts I've made anywhere, while online...on this site, or any others.

 

Besides, *everyone's* well aware I'm a "feminist", ergo I "hate men", not women.

 

 

Oh, and by-the-by, I've never been the OW or in a relationship where my man cheated. Birds-of-feather, and all that good stuff.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP. I hope your pain stops soon.

 

Were you being facetious or do you really not know 'feminism' isn't about hating men, it's anti oppression of women, equality regardless of gender.

You cannot call yourself a feminist and advocate hate towards a person or group based on gender.

[Aniela]

Were you being facetious or do you really not know 'feminism' isn't about hating men, it's anti oppression of women, equality regardless of gender.

You cannot call yourself a feminist and advocate hate towards a person or group based on gender.

 

She was joking.

[mrldii]

Were you being facetious or do you really not know 'feminism' isn't about hating men, it's anti oppression of women, equality regardless of gender.

You cannot call yourself a feminist and advocate hate towards a person or group based on gender.

 

Quotation marks (" ") are used when the writer is quoting words from someone else.

 

 

Yes, I am facetious; the people whom I quote, are not.

 

 

I don't hate men; I love [some] men, both for company and for sexual relations. I don't hate women; I love [some] women, for company. And for shoe-shopping. Definitely love my girlfriends for shoe-shopping.

 

 

I respect people, period...which means - of course - that I respect myself, too. That's why I've never been the Other Woman or in a relationship where one of us cheats; if he can't respect the vows he made with me or someone else, I've got enough respect for 'em for the two of us.

 

It does - after all - take two to tango.

 

[dubliner]

Quotation marks (" ") are used when the writer is quoting words from someone else.

 

 

Yes, I am facetious; the people whom I quote, are not.

 

 

I don't hate men; I love [some] men, both for company and for sexual relations. I don't hate women; I love [some] women, for company. And for shoe-shopping. Definitely love my girlfriends for shoe-shopping.

 

 

I respect people, period...which means - of course - that I respect myself, too. That's why I've never been the Other Woman or in a relationship where one of us cheats; if he can't respect the vows he made with me or someone else, I've got enough respect for 'em for the two of us.

 

It does - after all - take two to tango.

 

 

Ah thanks for explaining, I did wonder what the whole ** '' thing was about, the joys of the written word.

[ladydesigner]

Again, I do think it is unrealistic to imagine that all women would stand together, but if we did, cheaters who engage in cheating and see the women as collateral damage would have no one left afterwards--no plan A or plan B. And the problem of infidelity would greatly diminish.

 

But as it stands, women always believe cheaters. I see OW and BW as equally responsible, valuing the relationship over respect and integrity.

 

Well the BW usually doesn't know about the A until Dday, then they have to try and believe the cheater, whereas the OW up front knows from the get go that the MM is a cheater. The OW goes into the A feet first with a cheater.

 

Now in my case after False R I no longer believe the cheater I am with (WS). His past history proves who he is again and again and I am not putting much stock into the M anymore so in my case I am currently not valuing my R with WH. He hasn't done the work and at most is barely able to empathize with anyone me or any of the OW he has been with.

[Got it]

Sorry, I don't buy that argument.

 

How many times have mm or mw been portrayed as such horrible liars after an A ends because they lied to the ow/om, and that is not just on ow/om message boards and forums.

 

Is he not also lying to the bs? Why is lying in one situation okay, but not th other?

 

Again, who are you talking about? Who is this mystery population that is only painting the MP as evil and the OP as a victim? Your social circle? TV?

 

And of course the MP is lying to the BS. That is well known and par for the course. Why is the AP upset about being lied to as well? Well because most people are upset if they are lied to regardless of how prevalent the behavior may actually be. Humans are a contradictory fickle species. We are the epitome of hypocritical. Does this surprise you? No one said lying is okay but it isn't uncommon to excuse away poor behavior by a romantic partner towards others and give the benefit of the doubt when it is with the person. Right or wrong that is a slippery slope people will fall down to be with the one they want.

 

And whether or not your "buy" an argument is really up to you. I have zero interest in selling it to you. All I am giving you is my personal experience, my experience on multiple AP boards, as well as with those who have had affairs in real life. Whether or not you want to "buy" in is really up to you.

[Got it]

I work in a very large place, equal number of men and women. There are several men openly "looking" for an A. They have never had one before, but constantly joke about being on to the idea. Recently a guy I have known for 20 years said, "What's so great about so and so? I am as good looking as him. Why is nobody interested in me?" He has been married for 15 years and has two kids.

 

Can't really blame OW for these guys, can you?

 

That's my point.

No more OW.

No more forgiving wives.

These guys would be sunk.

 

It will take both sides to get the message across.

 

Except that is an impossible ideal. If, in theory, one could get women to not participate you will still have sex for sale. Or are we assuming that women who use sex in their livelihood will now rise up as well?

 

And while we are at it why don't we just put chastity belts on our spouses so we can really control what they do with their genitalia. Ahh, but we do have the mind that is free. That does not rule out the emotional affair. Maybe lock them in a tower?

 

Bottom line, if someone wants to cheat they will. And if they want to bad enough, well, they will move heaven and earth to get what they want.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Got it

[gemini6]

It is a character issue. My H would never cheat because that is the kind of man he is. It has nothing to do with me, or whether I'm a good wife or horrible.

 

He also has empathy so he wouldn't lead a woman on. Usually he includes me in the conversation so that won't happen. One time he accidentally lead a woman on without realizing it, and when she found out he was married, she got embarrassed. He said he felt bad because he didn't want to hurt her.

 

So the thought of him wanting some woman to fall in love with him to boost his own ego, is absurd.

 

There are a lot of cheaters, men and women with character flaws (me included). However, there are men and women who have different moral standards and it has nothing to do with gender. They don't hurt people because they have empathy, and they actually hold themselves with high standars.

 

They do the right thing because that's the kind of people they want to be in this world. It has nothing to with whether the other person treats them badly or whether they deserve it...it's about them and how they value themselves in this world.

BINGO! It's a character issue, plain and simple. I have no sympathy for liars and cheaters - MP or AP.

As for the "reasons" why so many people cheat OP, here is the main one:

People look for their "happiness" in someone else. They can not fathom taking responsibility for their own happiness and lay that burden on their spouses shoulders, when the spouse can't keep them "happy" 24 hours a day 7 days a week, they decide they are "miserable" in the marriage because of the spouse, the spouse isn't "doing THIER job" of keeping them happy They look outside of themselves to find "happiness" and look to others to fulfill that need - after all they "deserve some happiness" right? As Caligirl explained, it's a character issue. I'm sorry, but laying your happiness on someone else's shoulders is unfair and impossible, of course no one can make you happy or keep you happy.

And number 2: Well, people allow their emotions to rule their lives. Some people love drama and feed off of emotional roller coasters - I rule my emotions, not the other way around As far as BS "allowing men to keep cheating" I agree when it comes to serial cheaters. Unfortunately some women (and men) aren't strong enough, don't have the guts, have no self esteem, enjoy the crazy who knows..BUT, it's their business, not mine. I'm not going to condemn a BS for staying in the marriage, that's their life and no one knows their life better then they do.

Edited May 21, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[thecharade]

Sex for sale exists because there is a market. Supply and demand. I am not really sure what we all do about that as it's a financial transaction, not an emotional one.

 

There was a study done (it can be found by searching "Men and women cannot be friends") that essentially says that men see any positive interactions with female friends as romantic interest, even when there is zero interest from the female. And apparently the single/taken status also has no impact on his interest in the female, although women were not very interested when the man was taken.

 

It seems to me that this study confirms that men--even married men--are quick to turn platonic situations into romantic ones. I certainly have seen a couple desperate women who would be willing to be 'other women,' but I have seen far, far larger numbers of inappropriate or wandering men. This study seems to confirm what I see.

 

I realize that I am not going to come to a forum and convert everyone, but I wanted to put the idea out there: this ends when all women change. There is that saying, "No one can take advantage of you without your permission." Yep, that is where I see us as females--allowing it.

[NTV]

Sex for sale exists because there is a market. Supply and demand. I am not really sure what we all do about that as it's a financial transaction, not an emotional one.

 

There was a study done (it can be found by searching "Men and women cannot be friends") that essentially says that men see any positive interactions with female friends as romantic interest, even when there is zero interest from the female. And apparently the single/taken status also has no impact on his interest in the female, although women were not very interested when the man was taken.

 

It seems to me that this study confirms that men--even married men--are quick to turn platonic situations into romantic ones. I certainly have seen a couple desperate women who would be willing to be 'other women,' but I have seen far, far larger numbers of inappropriate or wandering men. This study seems to confirm what I see.

 

I realize that I am not going to come to a forum and convert everyone, but I wanted to put the idea out there: this ends when all women change. There is that saying, "No one can take advantage of you without your permission." Yep, that is where I see us as females--allowing it.

 

You spoke the truth when you said you SEE far, far larger numbers of inappropriate or wandering men. The real truth in that statement is that there are likely the same number of cheating women as men. I think women just happen to be more discrete when they do it. Because the adultery world mirrors the real one where more often than not its the man who signals interest and availability first.

[Dancewithme]

I think if we want to talk about women supporting women, this is the bottom line: if a guy is taken, he's off-limits to you. Regardless of if you feel he's your soulmate, if you think his wife is a witch, if he tells you he's unhappy.

 

No one can "steal" anyone from anyone else. But it's up to us as individuals to maintain proper boundaries with folks who are in a committed relationship so lines are not blurred.

 

Studies have shown that proximity breeds attraction. Hence, all of these workplace affairs. We are dynamic people, in constantly changing environments, attractions will come. But, every attraction does not have to be acted on. Ignore it, don't feed it, it goes away eventually. Ive been married a long time, and have been attracted to lots of men. But, Ignored it, the attraction fades way, life goes on. And I don't feel like I've missed out on anything.

 

We don't have to know, care about, or even like each other. But, it would make things a whole lot easier for all involved if we respected simple things like boundaries, marriage, committments. That's support.

[Lady Hamilton]

I work in a very large place, equal number of men and women. There are several men openly "looking" for an A. They have never had one before, but constantly joke about being on to the idea. Recently a guy I have known for 20 years said, "What's so great about so and so? I am as good looking as him. Why is nobody interested in me?" He has been married for 15 years and has two kids.

 

Can't really blame OW for these guys, can you?

 

That's my point.

No more OW.

No more forgiving wives.

These guys would be sunk.

 

It will take both sides to get the message across.

 

So is this a call for women to stick together because "girl power" or is this a call for women to stick together to screw over men, or is it just "screw men?"

 

It just feels like every time you say that women need to stick together, there's three other paragraphs where you imply all men are dogs who just want to randomly and indiscriminately sleep with any and all women they can.

 

Because I have to say, I'm not a fan of the "women support women because women" mentality, but I'm actively revolted by "women support women because me are pigs" banner.

 

I have zero interest in banding together with other women to enforce a moral code for men.

 

At this point I don't think any case is being made for anything other than you should find a new place to work. You make it sound like the office from "Mad Men."

Edited May 17, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[NTV]

I have zero interest in banding together with other women to enforce a moral code for men.

 

 

 

We men appreciate that! We have enough trouble trying to get our clothes in the hamper appropriately.

[Lady Hamilton]

I'd never throw that down as a violation... In our house it's my husband who's the laundry police. He's the first to say my clothes stay where they land if it weren't for him.

[NTV]

Question his authority! Immediately!

[Lady Hamilton]

I make it a point to never question anybody who does housework so I don't have to.

[thecharade]

I do not in any way mean this to be cruel--just trying to open the mind--but when I read in infidelity forums (I read a few) the absolute most common reaction to dday is . . . the pick me dance, hysterical bonding, and offers of reconciliation! If men are going to be forgiven for cheating, then why wouldn't they? If they are always seeing platonic relationships as romantic possibilities and they are going to be forgiven for any and all indiscretions, then why wouldn't they spend a large portion of their adult energy pursuing OW? And if women are going to be surrounded by charismatic men who put a huge amount of energy into impressing them and winning their attention, how can all of those gazillions of women never fall for any of it, no matter how true the info seems, how attractive the guy is, how much chemistry they have, how well they get along, or how she is feeling herself?

 

Really, the problem is SO big--always has been--that all women will have to decide cheating is a deal breaker (BW or OW) or the problem will never, ever go away. More pain, more women, and so on and so on.

 

I can't help it, that's the way it looks to me.

[mrldii]

I do not in any way mean this to be cruel--just trying to open the mind--but when I read in infidelity forums (I read a few) the absolute most common reaction to dday is . . . the pick me dance, hysterical bonding, and offers of reconciliation! If men are going to be forgiven for cheating, then why wouldn't they? If they are always seeing platonic relationships as romantic possibilities and they are going to be forgiven for any and all indiscretions, then why wouldn't they spend a large portion of their adult energy pursuing OW? And if women are going to be surrounded by charismatic men who put a huge amount of energy into impressing them and winning their attention, how can all of those gazillions of women never fall for any of it, no matter how true the info seems, how attractive the guy is, how much chemistry they have, how well they get along, or how she is feeling herself?

 

Really, the problem is SO big--always has been--that all women will have to decide cheating is a deal breaker (BW or OW) or the problem will never, ever go away. More pain, more women, and so on and so on.

 

I can't help it, that's the way it looks to me.

 

 

Again and still, I don't normally participate in these types of discussions because I have never been the OW or the BW, so therefore, I have no personal, first-hand experience from which to speak.

 

But from the threads I've read here on LS the BW (or BH) who chooses to work on their marriage with the WS does so because the price is too high NOT to. There is a shared history, shared successes, shared failures...children, family, traditions, and yes possessions. It is so much more than stolen moments, sans responsibility/responsibilities (which they once did share, before life and kids arrived).

 

I have not heard of too many BS who choose to stay saying [words to the effect of] "Oh, it's OK if they cheat...I'll forgive 'em and forgive 'em and forgive 'em"; it's always a one-shot deal: we tripped up, one of us failed, together we will pick ourselves - and each other - up, and move on together, from here...with both of us doing the hard work necessary to get this back on track.

 

 

I don't mean to be cruel here, but that's something the OW/OM can't offer nor provide...nor ever understand, because to be the "Other Woman"/"Other Man",

 

 

marriage and what it really means, just wasn't all that important to the "Other One".

[purplesorrow]

I do not in any way mean this to be cruel--just trying to open the mind--but when I read in infidelity forums (I read a few) the absolute most common reaction to dday is . . . the pick me dance, hysterical bonding, and offers of reconciliation! If men are going to be forgiven for cheating, then why wouldn't they? If they are always seeing platonic relationships as romantic possibilities and they are going to be forgiven for any and all indiscretions, then why wouldn't they spend a large portion of their adult energy pursuing OW? And if women are going to be surrounded by charismatic men who put a huge amount of energy into impressing them and winning their attention, how can all of those gazillions of women never fall for any of it, no matter how true the info seems, how attractive the guy is, how much chemistry they have, how well they get along, or how she is feeling herself?

 

Really, the problem is SO big--always has been--that all women will have to decide cheating is a deal breaker (BW or OW) or the problem will never, ever go away. More pain, more women, and so on and so on.

 

I can't help it, that's the way it looks to me.

 

Not all are forgiven. At the end of the day, you can only control your actions. You can either choose to do harm or not. It shouldn't really matter if someone else supports you. Stand by your own beliefs.