Women supporting women?

[Lady Hamilton]

Maybe I just love men too much but my experience, they can't be boiled down into stereotypes. It's giving me a headache to say "that's not all men" and still get stuck in this evil men vs make-victimized women conversational slant.

 

At the end of the day, I have no interest, nor do I see a point, in women banding together to enforce and ethical and moral code on men... Either in preventing affairs or punishing those who have had affairs. Especially since the ethics and morals on it are so fluid and individualistic.

 

I'd rather tend my own garden and leave it to my husband to not cheat. It just makes more sense to rely on the variable I know than the one I don't.

 

Oh, and yes... That guy from my story is completely screwed. I dislike him and her, so I'll admit, I get a chuckle out their mutual stupidity. Right or wrong, I do. It's like real life Maury.

[xxoo]

Integral to this conversation, I believe, is the fact that not all men cheat.

 

So all the theory about what women (BS/OW) could/couldn't do to end cheating is beside the point. Look at the men who don't cheat in any circumstances. Study and learn what to look for in a partner. Then settle for nothing less.

 

Why try to change a disloyal man into a loyal one when you can just choose a loyal one?

[Got it]

I am not the op, and I am a bs who is in a marriage that reconciled successfully, so I most certainly DO now what I am talking about. It was a serried of hundreds of small acts on both our parts that made that possible. Acts that rebuilt trust, acts of kindness, acts of understand and grace. It's a process made up of thousands of small steps.

 

It sounds like your parents were never able to to do that, and you decided that reconciling your own marriage isn't what was right for your situation, but to extrapolate from that to everyone else is a pretty big leap. Sure, some couples never get to that point, but to assume that few do is a big stretch.

 

I'm wondering exactly what you mean by 'hard work" you mention above. Do you mean counseling, some grand gesture, what?

 

btw, thanks for the statistics, but a the saying goes "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". They can be twisted to support virtually any position.

 

Of course I didn't take my direct experience as a broad brush. Again, read over on Infidelity to see that most don't reconcile. Or are you disagreeing with them? Read Surviving Infidelity, clearly discussed there as well about true reconciliation being in the minority. These are BS who are discussing this, not OP or WS. Or are they wrong as well?

 

I also wasn't talking about my marriage as there was nothing to reconcile. I did mention my husband and his ex wife's marriage.

 

I have no personal agenda to need to argue that successful reconciliation is in the minority. Maybe this is triggering you but I am giving my opinion based on reading others, stats, and articles by psychologists. I find it sad that it is insult to injury that there aren't more WS willing to do the work needed to repair the damage done but continue to stay in the marriage and making the BS decide to stay or go. What few tend to show/demonstrate is true remorse.

 

I am sure this will be dismissed as what do these authors know but - true reconciliation:

 

Dealing With Infidelity: The Keys to True Reconciliation

https://affaircare.com/2013/05/08/the-difference-between-reconciliation-and-rug-sweeping/

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ap65e79CtYYC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=true+reconciliation+affair&source=bl&ots=2fYPkGv76L&sig=T0y9DpHp6FQCsJnt3hJGZi0oDiA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPmq21oOTMAhULdD4KHelcBMwQ6AEITzAI#v=onepage&q=true%20reconciliation%20affair&f=false

[minimariah]

Right or wrong, I do.

 

it's definitely wrong.

[ladydesigner]

Integral to this conversation, I believe, is the fact that not all men cheat.

 

So all the theory about what women (BS/OW) could/couldn't do to end cheating is beside the point. Look at the men who don't cheat in any circumstances. Study and learn what to look for in a partner. Then settle for nothing less.

 

Why try to change a disloyal man into a loyal one when you can just choose a loyal one?

 

I need to find this kind of man!

[Got it]

Right, but once you realize that you see your children as a negative, why doesn't that trigger some sort of '****, I need to go get some counseling' response?

 

 

Got it, I scored you a 5.8 on sarcasm and would like you to better next time. Can you help? lol

 

 

 

 

Lady Hamilton, that guy's situation sucks. But he did fall into an obvious trap. She has this plan, but it sounds like the same plan she had for her first two, so I hope that if this plan fails she moves to a new model of finding a way to support herself besides having children.

 

 

That whole situation is a really good supporting example behind when you said:

 

 

 

Because it's true that some men (and women) do blindly and uncontrollably want sex. And those men are usually the ones that end up in a trap like this one.

 

 

I don't even think it's a lot of men who are 'dogs'/'pigs' etc. I just think that the ones that are make interesting gossip and are very visible so it's easy to assume they represent the majority.

 

 

Just like we can't assume that the majority of women look at men like they are wallets with legs. But some do. And the warning gets passed around to all guys to be wary---so we look for it when we meet women. 'Is her goal to be with me, or am I a stepping stone to my bank account?'

 

 

The honest truth is that both men AND women like sex. And money. But for some, that's the alter they pray at. And if you worship either, you aren't a person to be trusted because you won't value any person above your idol.

 

 

Not really religious myself, but I thought it a good analogy.

 

 

Then again, I think I got up on soapbox here, and will need to end the whole monologue with a joke about how good looking I am. But it isn't a joking manner. At least not to the millions of people that have a picture of my extraordinary face chiseled into their memories.

 

Where did I say I saw my children as a negative??? You said that I didn't. I just didn't argue with your jab. In all seriousness, what I saw as the "negative" of having kids was my mom's comment to us that she was stuck in the marriage because of us kids. That she couldn't leave due to the kids and finances. And I can remember where we were when it was said.

 

I don't discount her feelings behind it and know as a SATM how stuck she felt. Just like I don't have any anger towards her about her affair. I have forgiven a lot with my parents and know the affair was just the icing on the very rotten cake of their marriage. They both exhibited awful behavior throughout it that made the divorce such a relief to us. The affair was by far one of lesser offenses at least in the eyes of the children. Before the violins play too loudly they have been awesome divorced, we still do all holidays together, they get along, have gone on vacations together, etc. Just taking them out of the marriage took the pressure out of the pressure cooker. They could be who they are without impacting the other person.

 

And my sarcasm is being kept within LS allowable requirements. Take it offline and I am happy to show you a response dripping in it.

[ladydesigner]

Where did I say I saw my children as a negative??? You said that I didn't. I just didn't argue with your jab. In all seriousness, what I saw as the "negative" of having kids was my mom's comment to us that she was stuck in the marriage because of us kids. That she couldn't leave due to the kids and finances. And I can remember where we were when it was said.

 

I don't discount her feelings behind it and know as a SATM how stuck she felt. Just like I don't have any anger towards her about her affair. I have forgiven a lot with my parents and know the affair was just the icing on the very rotten cake of their marriage. They both exhibited awful behavior throughout it that made the divorce such a relief to us. The affair was by far one of lesser offenses at least in the eyes of the children. Before the violins play too loudly they have been awesome divorced, we still do all holidays together, they get along, have gone on vacations together, etc. Just taking them out of the marriage took the pressure out of the pressure cooker. They could be who they are without impacting the other person.

 

And my sarcasm is being kept within LS allowable requirements. Take it offline and I am happy to show you a response dripping in it.

 

I can see my kids feeling the way you did Got It and it shows me that I may not be making the best decision by staying in my M and I'm not even a SAHM

[Got it]

I can see my kids feeling the way you did Got It and it shows me that I may not be making the best decision by staying in my M and I'm not even a SAHM

 

Listen, both my parents still defend staying. There is no right or wrong and I don't know if divorce would have been better though I have a hard time seeing how it could have been worse. But in their marriage there was a physical affair, parental alienation, financial infidelity, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, etc. It was a really toxic mix of stabbing at each other and we were in the middle.

 

What I love now is the almost lack of undercurrent when they are together. Sure they still get under each other's skin, and still antagonize each other at times but they also joke and laugh and don't take the other too seriously. And they still support each other. In fact, well divorced, my father has helped my mom buy two houses (one at a time), a car, she has had him stay at her place when he didn't live locally, etc.

 

They are why I see everything in grey and why just having them happy makes the kids happy.

[minimariah]

I can see my kids feeling the way you did Got It and it shows me that I may not be making the best decision by staying in my M and I'm not even a SAHM

 

it really depends... on so many things. my parents stayed married until i graduated high school & i'm honestly glad they did. our laws don't allow joint physical custody and they would for sure end on a REALLY bad note if they went through our usual custody proceedings. their relationship wasn't a toxic one, at least not in front of me - they were buddies. i never noticed any lack of romantic affection towards them at THAT time because i was too busy being a teen but when i look back now - it was obvious.

 

my point: if you think your kids would have a better life divorcing (although you can't ever know that for sure)... divorce. if you think they'll benefit much more from you staying home and them being under one roof? stay.

 

i was able to communicate openly with my folks and i don't really blame them for anything. you do the best you can, just like every parent.

[WasOtherWoman]

I can see my kids feeling the way you did Got It and it shows me that I may not be making the best decision by staying in my M and I'm not even a SAHM

 

I can only speak from what my steps tell me, but they very much appreciated the fact that their parents stayed together. Of course, my understanding is that it was all very civil and pleasant, not a war zone.

 

I think it really depends upon what the atmosphere is like....

[Lady Hamilton]

it's definitely wrong.

 

I'll add it to my list of imperfections. My quest for sainthood is foiled again.

[minimariah]

I think it really depends upon what the atmosphere is like....

 

THAT & how long can it last. i think living with someone you don't love, sharing a home and bed with them... takes a lot more work than any other living arrangement. that positive, roommies like atmosphere has an expiration date & as long as people are aware of it - it should be okay.

 

Lady Hamilton - i didn't mean anything bad by it, it was just a "along the way" comment. i'm sorry, it did came off as a personal insult.

Edited May 18, 2016 by minimariah

[mrldii]

The OP can't offer what? The history? History can be a double edged sword. To be honest, every "perk" can be seen a negative depending on the facts/events...

 

Yup, yup...shared history sure can be a double-edged sword; it doesn't have to be.

 

Yup, yup...every perk can be seen as a negative...including the perk(s) the cheating spouse used to find in the "Other Woman" / "Other Man."

 

 

Sorry to OP that her MM chose his wife and his life with his wife over his moments with his OW. I guess that's the chance one takes when one gets involved with someone who is already married.

 

You gambled and you lost; move on.

[flowergirl14]

Lol...yes he is..

 

She had it all planned out!

 

My h ex ow got pregnant by some stranger within 3 months of there affair ending. That says soo much to me about what her agenda was...

[NTV]

Where did I say I saw my children as a negative??? You said that I didn't. I just didn't argue with your jab. In all seriousness, what I saw as the "negative" of having kids was my mom's comment to us that she was stuck in the marriage because of us kids. That she couldn't leave due to the kids and finances. And I can remember where we were when it was said.

 

I don't discount her feelings behind it and know as a SATM how stuck she felt. Just like I don't have any anger towards her about her affair. I have forgiven a lot with my parents and know the affair was just the icing on the very rotten cake of their marriage. They both exhibited awful behavior throughout it that made the divorce such a relief to us. The affair was by far one of lesser offenses at least in the eyes of the children. Before the violins play too loudly they have been awesome divorced, we still do all holidays together, they get along, have gone on vacations together, etc. Just taking them out of the marriage took the pressure out of the pressure cooker. They could be who they are without impacting the other person.

 

And my sarcasm is being kept within LS allowable requirements. Take it offline and I am happy to show you a response dripping in it.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically, but a hypothetical all inclusive 'you' intended to be anyone who did see their kids as a negative.

 

 

side note: There are sarcasm limits on LS??? Hmm... what's the penalty for exceeding them? Because if it involves handcuffs, chains or a whip, I may need to know more.

[Got it]

Yup, yup...shared history sure can be a double-edged sword; it doesn't have to be.

 

Yup, yup...every perk can be seen as a negative...including the perk(s) the cheating spouse used to find in the "Other Woman" / "Other Man."

 

 

Sorry to OP that her MM chose his wife and his life with his wife over his moments with his OW. I guess that's the chance one takes when one gets involved with someone who is already married.

 

You gambled and you lost; move on.

 

OP is standing for Other Person. Are you referencing the author of the thread?

 

Who are you saying when you are saying "you gambled and lost"? Me? I married my MM.

[Got it]

Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically, but a hypothetical all inclusive 'you' intended to be anyone who did see their kids as a negative.

 

 

side note: There are sarcasm limits on LS??? Hmm... what's the penalty for exceeding them? Because if it involves handcuffs, chains or a whip, I may need to know more.

 

Ahhh, the undefined universal You. Understood. It is the common courtesy clause for LS. Appropriate communications with each other, universal respect, etc.

 

"Cause I may be bad

But I'm perfectly good at it

Sex in the air

I don't care

I love the smell of it

Sticks and stones

May break my bones

But chains and whips

Excite me"

[mrldii]

OP is standing for Other Person. Are you referencing the author of the thread?

 

Who are you saying when you are saying "you gambled and lost"? Me? I married my MM.

 

 

Nahhhh..."OP" stands for original poster; since my last comments were specifically directed to the "OP" (as evidenced by my referencing the "OP"), I obviously was not directing that portion to you.

 

 

 

Congrats on marrying your previously-married man. Is he, too, married, now?

[NTV]

 

"Cause I may be bad

But I'm perfectly good at it

Sex in the air

I don't care

I love the smell of it

Sticks and stones

May break my bones

But chains and whips

Excite me"

 

 

 

Don't know how you found my theme song, I mean I thought the music was just restricted to when I entered a room or changed...erm...tools? toys?.... but I suppose being an anonymous forum and all that you all could be hearing my theme song every time you read my posts and I wouldn't know it.

 

 

 

 

<shrug> either way, don't tell nobody.

[Got it]

Nahhhh..."OP" stands for original poster; since my last comments were specifically directed to the "OP" (as evidenced by my referencing the "OP"), I obviously was not directing that portion to you.

 

 

 

Congrats on marrying your previously-married man. Is he, too, married, now?

 

No, OP stands for Other Person as well and how I referenced it when I wrote it. I was asking for clarification. Since your use of abbreviations and pronouns were very general understanding what you were writing was very confusing.

 

Thank you for the congratulations. Always appreciate well wishes.

[Ms. Faust]

OP to me stands for original poster. I use it all the time in this and other forums. I use MM, MW, or AP for what you refer to. Other Partner is odd to me, I don't really recall seeing it many places.

[Girlfromcali]

OP to me stands for original poster. I use it all the time in this and other forums. I use MM, MW, or AP for what you refer to. Other Partner is odd to me, I don't really recall seeing it many places.

 

Yes, OP is original poster. This is going to be confusing if we start to change the meaning of abbreviations now.

[anika99]

I have never used OP to refer to Other Person. It's either OM, OW or AP (affair partner), OP refers to the original poster.

[NTV]

Been looking for an Original Poster from the new star wars movie. All the theaters seem to have given them away and the folks on Ebay want a fortune. Any of you folks have one?

[ladydesigner]

Been looking for an Original Poster from the new star wars movie. All the theaters seem to have given them away and the folks on Ebay want a fortune. Any of you folks have one?

 

Bahahahaha NTV you are on a roll! You got me dying over here I could use the laughs today!