Infidelity - forgiveness - not something I ask for

[RecentChange]

In another thread, another poster mentioned "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" by L. McDonald.

 

An interesting read - as a "wandering spouse" I feel I have made a lot of the right moves since D Day (no doubt facilitated by reading a bunch on LS before that day hit).

 

We (spouse and I) are working through it. The damage is undeniable, but as long as he lets me, I am willing to put in the work to make it right. So far, so good. We are discussing things that should have been talked about years ago, and in many ways this experience has brought us closer, and made our bond stronger.

 

That said - one thing that stands out for me is forgiveness. McDonald's booklet talks about when to ask for forgiveness - my spouse has stated that "he forgives me".

 

I know what I did was wrong. I am not seeking forgiveness, it's not something I would ask for. Somethings can't be forgiven - in my mind at least. I seek his healing, I seek perhaps his acceptance of me, but I do not expect forgiveness.

 

When he says that he forgives me - I tell him no, you can't, at least not this soon (it's been months, not years since D Day). That I recognize that he WANTS to forgive me, and perhaps in years he can - but for now - just let me try to make things right, and please, do not worry about forgiving me (I got a smile and a laugh out of him during an emotional talk - in which I told him, oh honey, it's too soon, give me, give me 6 years, and maybe then I can make it up to you so that you really can forgive me).

 

As I write this out - another angle has come to me. The role of forgiveness for the forgiver..... I suppose it's a head place he would rather be. For me, now at least, it's not one I seek nor think I deserve.

 

Thoughts? Forgiveness and its role in recovering from infidelity?

[malvern99]

As I write this out - another angle has come to me. The role of forgiveness for the forgiver.....

 

You hit the nail on the head. In my eyes the forgiver offers forgiveness in order to unburden themselves, not to alleviate the guilt of the other party. Nursing resentments over time leads to nothing productive in the short or long term.

 

Forgiveness however should not be confused with absolution. One who is forgiven must still be willing to put in the work necessary.

[CoolHandLuke76]

A lot of time the BS's want to rugsweep the whole thing too quickly because it hurts them so bad. You can't let him do that. He might think he forgives you and try to convince himself that he's over it but if he rugsweeps it and tries to move on without really dealing with it then it'll fester under the surface, all the while building a hidden resentment of you until it explodes some day. Be strong and don't let him rugsweep it. Make him deal with what you did. Make him talk about how it hurt him no matter how hard it is for you to hear. He has to get that all out of his system and then he can move forward in a healthy way and you guys have a chance.

[AlwaysGrowing]

For the remorseful....they usually do not seek out forgiveness from those they have wronged. They seek to be a part of that persons life in a meaningful way.

 

I also believe that until we have forgiven ourselves for our wrongdoings....forgiveness from others just doesn't resonate the same. It doesn't feel like ours. For the remorseful....they have to know that they have earned it.....not earned it because someone said it...but KNOW inside that we are not the same person as before.

 

Forgiving others is much easier...one just decides to put something down...and the work is done. They weren't the ones who took the hit to their internal view of their character.

 

I have often said...it is much easier to be the one with the knife in the back than the one with the blood on their hands.

 

I can't tell you how often I have heard someone advise another..."you have to forgive yourself...everyone makes mistakes". I guess for someone who lacks empathy, or truly owns their actions...it is just that easy. (Mind you....those are the folks that repeat "mistakes" over and over).

 

For those that truly felt the pain they caused another...they have to have something more concrete...more tangible...they have to KNOW that they are no longer that person. Someone saying...oh..just forgive yourself and move on...won't cut it. They need to grow into another version of themselves.

 

For those that do the work...there is a clarity about them...a quietness...strength..knowingness. Oh....and joy. They live their lives leaving light in their wake....they live life eyes wide open.

 

For myself, I am just not built to go..."whew..glad that's over, thanks for the forgiveness...hey if you're not going to finish your toast can I have it". I don't think you are built that way either.

[katielee]

 

Forgiveness and its role in recovering from infidelity?

 

over-rated.

[RecentChange]

Insightful responses, thank you everyone. Hahah I have to say, I posted this two beers deep into a (pre-going to a concert train ride) - and later thought, uff, what did I do, hopefully didn't invite an LS flogging.

 

But I am glad I posted, I appreciate the replies.

 

Both of us are prone to rug sweeping (hey, it's usually not the "perfect" relationship that lends itself to cheating) - so the comment about forgiving, as if it's a way to wipe your hands clean and move on resonates.

 

I find myself saying wait wait wait - it's not that easy, and I do push the talks - I let him be angry, upset, disappointed. That's another tricky one, he doesn't WANT to be - and will try to rug sweep, or God forbid thinks it would push me away. It takes some reassurance and coaxing from me that I can take it - and he's got to let it out.

 

So, it's a bit of a balancing act - on one hand I want to tackle the hard stuff, but that also has to be balanced with picking the scab (carefully avoiding triggers could be a whole other topic).

 

I also appreciate the feedback regarding the difference between forgiving yourself, and accepting forgiveness.

[Marc878]

I'll have to say you're pretty insightful.

 

Good luck to you both.

[Mr. Lucky]

I also appreciate the feedback regarding the difference between forgiving yourself, and accepting forgiveness.

 

I think there's a symbiotic relationship between the two. When someone we love does something stupid and hurtful, we take some initial satisfaction in seeing them stew in their own juices of shame, self-loathing and regret.

 

When (and if) the BS is ready to move beyond that, they hopefully offer the WS permission to forgive themselves. I think this is what your H is extending to you and hope you're open to accepting it. Shutting down just punishes him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RecentChange]

I think there's a symbiotic relationship between the two. When someone we love does something stupid and hurtful, we take some initial satisfaction in seeing them stew in their own juices of shame, self-loathing and regret.

 

When (and if) the BS is ready to move beyond that, they hopefully offer the WS permission to forgive themselves. I think this is what your H is extending to you and hope you're open to accepting it. Shutting down just punishes him...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Uff, Mr. lucky! This hit me hard - like made me tear up a bit.

 

But you're right, he doesn't want me "stewing", yet I feel like I still deserve to - but he takes no comfort or solistace from it.

 

It's actually selfish of me - and your post just made me realize that.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's actually selfish of me - and your post just made me realize that.

 

RC, you seem thoughtful and introspective. Much confidence in your ability to recover and strengthen your marriage ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[NTV]

I think you were right not to accept his forgiveness this early. He likely didn't offer it knowing the full extent of his pain.

[drifter777]

In another thread, another poster mentioned "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" by L. McDonald.

 

An interesting read - as a "wandering spouse" I feel I have made a lot of the right moves since D Day (no doubt facilitated by reading a bunch on LS before that day hit).

 

We (spouse and I) are working through it. The damage is undeniable, but as long as he lets me, I am willing to put in the work to make it right. So far, so good. We are discussing things that should have been talked about years ago, and in many ways this experience has brought us closer, and made our bond stronger.

 

That said - one thing that stands out for me is forgiveness. McDonald's booklet talks about when to ask for forgiveness - my spouse has stated that "he forgives me".

 

I know what I did was wrong. I am not seeking forgiveness, it's not something I would ask for. Somethings can't be forgiven - in my mind at least. I seek his healing, I seek perhaps his acceptance of me, but I do not expect forgiveness.

 

When he says that he forgives me - I tell him no, you can't, at least not this soon (it's been months, not years since D Day). That I recognize that he WANTS to forgive me, and perhaps in years he can - but for now - just let me try to make things right, and please, do not worry about forgiving me (I got a smile and a laugh out of him during an emotional talk - in which I told him, oh honey, it's too soon, give me, give me 6 years, and maybe then I can make it up to you so that you really can forgive me).

 

As I write this out - another angle has come to me. The role of forgiveness for the forgiver..... I suppose it's a head place he would rather be. For me, now at least, it's not one I seek nor think I deserve.

 

Thoughts? Forgiveness and its role in recovering from infidelity?

You are a very thoughtful, perceptive woman. You are directly on point: he wants desperately to forgive you but it is not possible to work through infidelity in such a short time.

 

I'm going to speak in generalities but many - if not most - BH's go through a period of panic and desperation after d-day. They are terrified of losing their wife and everything they hold dear and this horrible betrayal literally knocks them off their emotional balance. They just want the pain & fear to stop and are willing to "forgive" and try to move forward hoping time will heal their wound. Your BH has compartmentalized his agony and stuffed it into the darkest corner of his mind and hopes it will never be opened. Maybe he'll be able to keep it locked away but that doesn't happen very often. When it starts to leak out he will likely begin having mind-movies of you and OM having sex. He will probably keep it to himself but a certain amount of passive/aggressive behavior is pretty much certain. This will escalate until he either opens up to you about his true feelings - the best thing that could happen - or simply begins to feel contempt and hatred for you and what you did.

 

I think you understand all of this. The bad news I'm going to deliver to you is that there is absolutely nothing you can do to intercede into this process and "fix him". It has to play out on HIS timeline. If you explain all of this to him he will simply say "but our situation is different" because every BH says this.

 

Like you, I believe that infidelity is unforgivable. However, I think some BH's can get to a place of acceptance that his wife did an unforgivable thing but that she is not that same person anymore. He can appreciate all of the good things about his WW & family life and find peace. Of course it is impossible to forget so he will have to live the rest of his life with flare-ups of intense pain & anger over your cheating. But that's just the price he has to pay for choosing to reconcile.

[RecentChange]

Oh he has the mind movies.

 

And I guess we are lucky in that we are pretty open with each other, and have been talking about this stuff as well.

 

More balancing act - he wants some details, then doesn't, because he knows it won't be helpful. I don't try to withhold things, but on the other hand, I am not free flowing with details, and ask if he really wants to know, that I will tell him, but....(usually the answer ends up no).

 

He's conflicted, hell this can all be confusing for both of us. He says he can go from pissed, to turned on by the thoughts - which - is weird to him.

 

Sometimes he just gets angry with me - even though he doesn't want to be - and I tell him to be angry, that he has every right to be - I would be.

 

And you are right - the worse thing would be for him to just quietly seethe with resentment. I don't want that, I am hoping by showing him he can vent / be emotional - whatever he needs, and I will still be right here supporting will prevent that.

[NTV]

Drifter man, good to see you! And that's a great description.

[jen1447]

Did you get married in the last few months RC?

 

(I do believe a bereaved husband and a bereaved BF aren't exactly identical things with this stuff.)

[Liam1]

Oh he has the mind movies.

 

And I guess we are lucky in that we are pretty open with each other, and have been talking about this stuff as well.

 

More balancing act - he wants some details, then doesn't, because he knows it won't be helpful. I don't try to withhold things, but on the other hand, I am not free flowing with details, and ask if he really wants to know, that I will tell him, but....(usually the answer ends up no).

 

He's conflicted, hell this can all be confusing for both of us. He says he can go from pissed, to turned on by the thoughts - which - is weird to him.

 

Sometimes he just gets angry with me - even though he doesn't want to be - and I tell him to be angry, that he has every right to be - I would be.

 

And you are right - the worse thing would be for him to just quietly seethe with resentment. I don't want that, I am hoping by showing him he can vent / be emotional - whatever he needs, and I will still be right here supporting will prevent that.

 

Maybe your boyfriend can put the mind movies in the same category as he does your ex boyfriends.

 

Most people today have sex with other prior to living with someone or getting married and those relationships do not cause mind movies, in anyone I have ever talked to.

 

I only hear the concept of mind movies in relationship to infidelity, but never in relationship to past dating situations.

[NTV]

Maybe your boyfriend can put the mind movies in the same category as he does your ex boyfriends.

 

Most people today have sex with other prior to living with someone or getting married and those relationships do not cause mind movies, in anyone I have ever talked to.

 

I only hear the concept of mind movies in relationship to infidelity, but never in relationship to past dating situations.

 

 

 

No, it's not possible. Speaking as a BH, the mind movies come unannounced, without rhyme or reason. It's just the minds way of moving past denial (i.e. see stage of grief). It's hard to deny something is real when you see it every time you close your eyes.

 

 

God, mind movies were horrible. They could be a torture technique worse than any waterboarding. I will be honest... I actually look back at the thought of those with fear.

[RecentChange]

Did you get married in the last few months RC?

 

(I do believe a bereaved husband and a bereaved BF aren't exactly identical things with this stuff.)

 

You would all think I was certifiably insane if I gave you the straight answer.

[GunslingerRoland]

I think general we don't treat the concepts of being sorry and forgiving properly. We say sorry for things we will do again, and we say we forgive someone for something, but will quickly bring it up again. That shows that most of us just go through the motions with those 2 concepts.

 

 

And in that context I think you are right, there is no one who feels true forgiveness within a couple of months for a spouse that cheated on them.

[NTV]

You would all think I was certifiably insane if I gave you the straight answer.

 

Pretty sure it won't be the craziest thing ever posted here.

[drifter777]

....

And you are right - the worse thing would be for him to just quietly seethe with resentment. I don't want that, I am hoping by showing him he can vent / be emotional - whatever he needs, and I will still be right here supporting will prevent that.

It's clear you are trying hard to reconcile. No doubt you can facilitate his healing by being honest, open, and supportive. The thing is we see BH's decide to divorce no matter how hard their WW is trying - but I think you realize there's no guarantees when it comes to infidelity.

 

Look, infidelity is a horrible blow to the BH and the marriage. When both WW and BH decide to try and stick it out they are in for a long, painful process. If you are not enduring tremendous emotional peaks and valleys then you're probably not as far into reconciliation as you might think you are...

[Sub]

The "f" word hasn't come up with us since D-Day. I don't think it's something I need to do to continue loving her, and I don't think it's something she expects. I actually think it would make it harder for her, which sounds similar to what you're going through. I think she would rather know I love her without forgiving what happened. It's easier for her to wrap her head around, as she's adamantly stated she wouldn't forgive me if I did it.

[RecentChange]

Oh we have our roller coaster nights - it can get pretty intense.

 

I will say, one detail I have left out of this thread is that he cheated 5 years prior. Situation, reasons, aftermath were all very different - so while not the same, I have been through "it" once before.

 

He says he is 100% into staying, making "us" work. I would just like to make that eaiser for him.

[jen1447]

You would all think I was certifiably insane if I gave you the straight answer.

 

What, you did a shotgun wedding at the JOP after the day of reckoning??

[Sub]

Maybe your boyfriend can put the mind movies in the same category as he does your ex boyfriends.

 

Most people today have sex with other prior to living with someone or getting married and those relationships do not cause mind movies, in anyone I have ever talked to.

 

I only hear the concept of mind movies in relationship to infidelity, but never in relationship to past dating situations.

 

Not to t/j, but I think there's a natural insecurity that comes along with realizing you apparently weren't enough for your SO sexually to the point they were with someone else while you were at home waiting for them. You're next in line after the ex, so you're the now and they're in the past. Sucks to unknowingly share the now with someone else.