Infidelity - forgiveness - not something I ask for

[S_A]

We are discussing things that should have been talked about years ago, and in many ways this experience has brought us closer, and made our bond stronger.

 

I want to say your original post was a pretty amazing post (one of the best I've read on LS). I think I have something useful to offer, but need to provide a little background story first...

 

My GF and I were together for five years when she dumped me last year. The dumping came out of nowhere (I had no signs that a breakup was coming). It was super hard on me, but also hard on her as the dumper. She quickly realized that she was unable to get over me after the breakup and that the dumping was a huge mistake on her part (the dumping was for a pretty illegitimate reason IMO). Two and a half months after the breakup, she reached back out to me as a "friend" but with the intention of getting back together. I took her back. While I was not cheated on, I still felt betrayed by her. I felt betrayed because the the break up came without warning, the reason for the breakup was bogus, and because I knew that no matter what she thought she felt on the day of the breakup that I was a great compliment to her (as a BF).

 

My GF and I have been together for 5-6 months since our breakup (it still boggles my mind that we even broke up in the first place). During this 5-6 months back together my GF has expressed, much like you, how she feels closer to me and how it has made our bond stronger. I don't know how true that is. I think a big part of why she feels closer is because she has been pretty infatuated with me during our time back together. I think her feeling of infatuation has something to do with the feeling of losing me and then getting me back. I think its analogous to the grumpy guy that hates life, has a near-death experience, and is then rejuvenated with a new-found appreciation for life because he realizes how precious life is only after he almost lost it. Not sure if you fall in to that category?

 

To my point...

 

In the back of mind I am thinking my GF can get bored and dump me again. I've told my GF I forgive her; however, I still have my guard up in case she dumps me the same way as she did before. With my guard up I can't get hurt nearly as bad.

 

When I read your post I couldn't help but wonder about your husband. Even though your husband says he forgives you, he may have doubt in the back of his mind. The doubt does not mean you are untrustworthy though. I mean, if a kid is attacked by a dog as he is growing up and becomes mentally scarred by the experience, he is going to naturally have his guard up around even the most loving of dogs. I say all this in part to sort of work out feeling guarded with my GF, but to also maybe provide some insight for you with respect to how your husband might be feeling when he says he forgives you. I forgive my GF, I just have not forgotten.

 

I seek his healing, I seek perhaps his acceptance of me, but I do not expect forgiveness.

 

When he says that he forgives me - I tell him no, you can't, at least not this soon (it's been months, not years since D Day). That I recognize that he WANTS to forgive me, and perhaps in years he can - but for now - just let me try to make things right, and please, do not worry about forgiving me (I got a smile and a laugh out of him during an emotional talk - in which I told him, oh honey, it's too soon, give me, give me 6 years, and maybe then I can make it up to you so that you really can forgive me).

 

As I write this out - another angle has come to me. The role of forgiveness for the forgiver..... I suppose it's a head place he would rather be. For me, now at least, it's not one I seek nor think I deserve.

 

I think the above part of your post was pretty amazing. I think the people that genuinely feel like they don't deserve forgiveness are the ones who are in fact most deserving of it.

 

Great post.

[Whoknew30]

My H & I both cheated & we both forgave each other rather quickly bc we more concerned with fixing what was broken bs the actual cheating part. I never looked for forgiveness either but he said something to me one day that really stuck when I was having troubles through all of it...me forgiving you isn't going to do any good if you don't forgive yourself. He was right, I had truly forgiven him but it took longer to forgive myself & once I did, that's when the reconciliation began on my end. Sounds like things are looking up, good luck

[RecentChange]

Thanks for all the input, even if I am getting a bit of ego stroke from it..... (And I feel like I shouldn't! It's like the soridid attention of an affair)

 

Lots of good points made, and things to chew on.

 

For one, I am going to try to stop rejecting his olive branch of forgiveness - and show more appreciation. I have told him it's big of him, and that I didn't think I was deserving.

 

But it reminds me of how someone complimented me once, and I responded with "I am bad at accepting compliments" - and they said, "you can just say thank you"

 

I think I just need to say thank you...

 

SA - good points made. Years ago, when his "indiscretion" (and ****ty D day response, the usual, denial, blame shifting, you all know the drill) blind sided me - it did change me in ways - and for a while I was more guarded I suppose. But I do feel like I was able to forgive, and let go of it.

 

I don't think I am in the same place as your GF. Sure, I aware of hysterical bonding, and its influence.

 

But I feel like we are closer, because some deep secrets have been shared, skeletons pulled out of the closet. Things that had never been brought to light despite the any many years we have shared.

 

And with every revelation - it seems like it deepens our understanding and acceptance of each other, rather than create distance which we both feared.

 

It is in line with the grumpy guy finding new love of life. It's a "$hit, what we have is amazing, I can't believe I was so wreckless to risk it all" type of thing.

 

I can forgive myself for what I physically did - mentally, I am totally fine with it. It's the way I have made him feel that leaves me so raw.

[RecentChange]

Oh and he has doubts! You just can't flip a switch and start trusting someone again - I know, and again, I keep telling him to give me time.....I'll have to prove I am where I say, doing what I said I would be, over and over and over before those doubts will fade.

 

At times he questions if I really am NC with the OM - which I am, 100%, but it's hard to prove a negitive.

 

I have offered to have a tracker added to my phone - anything to ease his uncertainty, but he says he doesn't want them.

 

So, I keep myself on a leash for the time being. No drinks after work with coworkers, no neighborhood runs (a particular trigger), I have rearranged my commute schedule to avoid bumping shoulders with a certain someone.

 

I just hate that he has to go through feeling uneasy, wondering if what I say is another lie.

[Whoknew30]

Thanks for all the input, even if I am getting a bit of ego stroke from it..... (And I feel like I shouldn't! It's like the soridid attention of an affair)

 

Lots of good points made, and things to chew on.

 

For one, I am going to try to stop rejecting his olive branch of forgiveness - and show more appreciation. I have told him it's big of him, and that I didn't think I was deserving.

 

But it reminds me of how someone complimented me once, and I responded with "I am bad at accepting compliments" - and they said, "you can just say thank you"

 

I think I just need to say thank you...

 

SA - good points made. Years ago, when his "indiscretion" (and ****ty D day response, the usual, denial, blame shifting, you all know the drill) blind sided me - it did change me in ways - and for a while I was more guarded I suppose. But I do feel like I was able to forgive, and let go of it.

 

I don't think I am in the same place as your GF. Sure, I aware of hysterical bonding, and its influence.

 

But I feel like we are closer, because some deep secrets have been shared, skeletons pulled out of the closet. Things that had never been brought to light despite the any many years we have shared.

 

And with every revelation - it seems like it deepens our understanding and acceptance of each other, rather than create distance which we both feared.

 

It is in line with the grumpy guy finding new love of life. It's a "$hit, what we have is amazing, I can't believe I was so wreckless to risk it all" type of thing.

 

I can forgive myself for what I physically did - mentally, I am totally fine with it. It's the way I have made him feel that leaves me so raw.

 

That's the part I had trouble forgiving myself for...the hurting him part. He was so cold to me sometimes that i thought he didn't love me that much & the day I told him...his face alone said it all. I never saw him cry before that day. Hang in there, we were open too & it really worked for us, it's 7 years now & him & I are the strongest we've ever been. it just takes time...you'll get there (.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Forgiveness is a gift....and like every gift....it has to be received to be appreciated. If we never unwrap the gift...we never know how precious the gift actually is.

 

 

Everyone has their own way of forgiving....and everyone has their own way of accepting it.....

 

I remember early in our reconciliation begging for forgiveness. It was very important to me. But it took a very long time for my husband to forgive me....and I think a very important part of being able to forgive was his knowing that my remorse was sincere.

 

It is very easy to say I am sorry after betraying someone you love....because you can clearly see the pain you have caused.

 

But learning to understand the depth of my betrayal....truly understanding the pain i caused him...took a long time.

 

Once I was able to take his pain upon myself...and he knew I understood what i had truly done to him....he was able to forgive me.

 

Remorse and forgiveness go hand in hand.....

 

Everyone is not capable of remorse and everyone is not capable of forgiveness.

 

We should probably remember that we as humans can forgive...but rarely forget. So while my husband forgives me for cheating on him...he will NEVER forget it. So do not confuse the two.

 

Sometimes people say they forgive...simply because they no longer want to discuss it. They want to move past the transgression and put it behind them. Are they really forgiving? or are they rug sweeping? Each couple has to answer that individually.

 

There are many folks here that have forgiven their wayward spouses without ever having received the remorse they hope to see. So it is possible to forgive without receiving remorse. It is a conscience effort done by the betrayed spouse who may realize that remorse from their wayward is not going to happen.

 

Regardless...forgiveness is a gift...and for me one that is very treasured.

[dreamingoftigers]

Not to t/j, but I think there's a natural insecurity that comes along with realizing you apparently weren't enough for your SO sexually to the point they were with someone else while you were at home waiting for them. You're next in line after the ex, so you're the now and they're in the past. Sucks to unknowingly share the now with someone else.

 

Three words come to mind for me personally: completely replaceable commodity.

 

(Yes, I was the BS).

[dichotomy]

People process forgiveness differently depending on their beliefs and make up.

 

For example there are people who believe in forgiving when the other person (who hurt them) does not even care, think they did anything wrong, or want forgiveness. These people can view forgiveness as a religious mandate - or a a reason to release and let go of the toxic issues. Does not mean they stay with that person, or no want certain things from them.

 

For others Forgiveness also does not mean forgetting, accepting, or not seeking justice or wanting reparations for damage done.

 

With my ex WW - I forgave her for come reasons that I needed to move on, and also that I needed forgiveness for some other mistakes I made in life to others (not to my ex). In other words I needed forgiveness for some crap I did in my life, and when it was offered it came with a request to forgive my ex WW.

 

In my case with my current WW - I think the only place I have gotten to is 1) A kind of understanding (why) of her betrayals and lies 2) kind of letting go of the weight on me - or maybe just not caring anymore (not sure which or a bit of both).

Edited May 18, 2016 by dichotomy

[S_A]

RecentChange, I did not realize he cheated first. That does change things a bit.

[katielee]

I think it really depends on your definition of forgiveness. What hubby and I did was unforgivable, IMO. Doesn't mean we can't have a good life going forward and it doesn't mean we throw it in each other's face. We don't. It just is. It is part of our past we can't change. Our lives are worth more than putting energy into something that happened years ago. Current stuff - yes.

[road]

I want to say your original post was a pretty amazing post (one of the best I've read on LS). I think I have something useful to offer, but need to provide a little background story first...

 

My GF and I were together for five years when she dumped me last year. The dumping came out of nowhere (I had no signs that a breakup was coming). It was super hard on me, but also hard on her as the dumper. She quickly realized that she was unable to get over me after the breakup and that the dumping was a huge mistake on her part (the dumping was for a pretty illegitimate reason IMO). Two and a half months after the breakup, she reached back out to me as a "friend" but with the intention of getting back together. I took her back. While I was not cheated on, I still felt betrayed by her. I felt betrayed because the the break up came without warning, the reason for the breakup was bogus, and because I knew that no matter what she thought she felt on the day of the breakup that I was a great compliment to her (as a BF).

 

My GF and I have been together for 5-6 months since our breakup (it still boggles my mind that we even broke up in the first place). During this 5-6 months back together my GF has expressed, much like you, how she feels closer to me and how it has made our bond stronger. I don't know how true that is. I think a big part of why she feels closer is because she has been pretty infatuated with me during our time back together. I think her feeling of infatuation has something to do with the feeling of losing me and then getting me back. I think its analogous to the grumpy guy that hates life, has a near-death experience, and is then rejuvenated with a new-found appreciation for life because he realizes how precious life is only after he almost lost it. Not sure if you fall in to that category?

 

To my point...

 

In the back of mind I am thinking my GF can get bored and dump me again. I've told my GF I forgive her; however, I still have my guard up in case she dumps me the same way as she did before. With my guard up I can't get hurt nearly as bad.

 

When I read your post I couldn't help but wonder about your husband. Even though your husband says he forgives you, he may have doubt in the back of his mind. The doubt does not mean you are untrustworthy though. I mean, if a kid is attacked by a dog as he is growing up and becomes mentally scarred by the experience, he is going to naturally have his guard up around even the most loving of dogs. I say all this in part to sort of work out feeling guarded with my GF, but to also maybe provide some insight for you with respect to how your husband might be feeling when he says he forgives you. I forgive my GF, I just have not forgotten.

 

 

 

I think the above part of your post was pretty amazing. I think the people that genuinely feel like they don't deserve forgiveness are the ones who are in fact most deserving of it.

 

Great post.

 

 

 

 

The BIG question: Did your GF date while you were apart?

[S_A]

The BIG question: Did your GF date while you were apart?

 

No. Nor did she sleep with anybody. I know this for sure. She was a wreck the entire time we were apart.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think it really depends on your definition of forgiveness. What hubby and I did was unforgivable, IMO. Doesn't mean we can't have a good life going forward and it doesn't mean we throw it in each other's face. We don't. It just is. It is part of our past we can't change. Our lives are worth more than putting energy into something that happened years ago. Current stuff - yes.

 

Nothing is unforgivable.....because you and i cannot say whether or not someone else is able to forgive. We can only say whether we are able to forgive.

 

Obviously...you are not able to forgive your husband...since you consider his offense unforgivable.

 

Throwing past transgressions in our partners face certainly does not represent forgiveness in it's truest definition....

 

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

 

Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).

 

I think we often confuse "forgiveness" with other things.

[wmacbride]

Forgiveness is such a personal thing, and when one gets right down to it, only the individual who is offering it will know when they are ready.For some it comes quickly, for others, it can take a long time and some never reach that place at all.

 

IMHO, offering forgiveness is as much for the person giving it as it is for the person being forgiven. It can allow them to finally let got of the pain and other negative emotions. This being said, it's not like throwing a switch and those negative emotions will just be gone.

 

Accepting forgiveness is actually a gift to the person who offers it.

[understand50]

Thoughts? Forgiveness and its role in recovering from infidelity?

 

Recent Change,

 

Forgiveness, is a personal thing. Your Husband may be at the place where he does forgive you, in that he does not want to break up with you. I am sure anger, pain and memories remain. In many ways, your husband first forgave you, when he agreed to "try and work it out with you". So, you both, have work to do, but the first step in "forgiveness" has been given and accepted by you.

 

I sense, that you see yourself as needing to make things up to your husband. The one thing that would make it alright, you can not do. You can never undo what you did. The only thing is to understand what you did, and show remorse, and work hard never to have it occur ever again. It is to your credit, that you see that this will be a long process, and may never really end, but grow smaller with time and actions. At first, both you you just wanted the pain to stop. Now, you want to rebuild. This can happen, but it does require hard work for both of you, and will color the rest of your life's. Marriage in general, is hard work, but cheating add a layer, a weight, to it.

 

I think you are doing find, but acknowledge that what your husband may need right now, is to just set things aside for a awhile, and work on the here and now. Yes, this happened, yes you are working at showing, feeling, true remorse, but now may be the time to work on the future. That is the largest part of forgiveness, "the gift", giving you a future with him. Being able to see that, yes we will be together going forward, and we will work things out.

 

Forgiveness is a ongoing process, and a willingness to set aside what happened in the past for the hope that something better can grow.

 

My two cents, and I wish you luck.........

[afoolto no end]

I think forgiveness is a difficult place to live in I perfer to just accept the stupidity and the end of what was, forgiving for me is a choice that is not necessary .....In my book there is nothing that can be done or said that can change the losses and the destruction of the vows we spoke to each other.

I look at it as his choice, his responsibilty. The changes are permanent.

I have chosen to stay and start over and rebuild a new life with him and so far it is and has been closer and better...

He can give me no good reason for his affair, his thinking about his morals and his actions he has taken for his affair........

He just did it because he felt entitled to do so, because he was a selfish person.

Because it was more important to him than me or our life.........that was the choice.

Is he remorseful he says he is, does he show it, yes he does...but the bottom line is his choice.

I can accept his choice as his right to chose what he does with his life, I can accept he was okay ending the vows for this choice, I can accept he changed things .....but I can't accept things are the same now or that they don't hurt me or our family life...it has it always will..........It was not a mistake in my eyes it was a choice and choices don't need forgiveness..

They need acceptance, they need to be owned and not blamed on others ...

 

I am with my husband and this experience has actually brought us closer , the bs the lies are over as far as I can see with him.......

but I will not give forgiveness so he can feel better about his choices, that is his to own, he was a big boy making them. he can own them now......

it was a choice, this is how I see this situation it had nothing to do with me .

 

Am I hurt after 27 years of marriage that he has this little loyalty to our life, yes ...but that is on him not me.....

There are many reasons couples stay together. and a lot of things to consider and there is no guarantees it won't happen again, or that life will be happier.....we just take it day by day and see what happens and how we feel that day....

If you can accept someone else's choices as theirs and their crosses to bear, you won't have to take on that kind of responsibility for someone else that does wrong......it isn't yours to own...

To me acceptance gives you more understanding and relief, more than forgiveness could give you....

Eventually everyone gets to acceptance in any loss I just prefer to go there. A choice is not a mistake that needs forgiving....

call my crazy but it works for me .......WH has to accept it as well....it is what it is now...

Edited May 18, 2016 by afoolto no end

[katielee]

I think forgiveness is a difficult place to live in I perfer to just accept the stupidity and the end of what was, forgiving for me is a choice that is not necessary .....In my book there is nothing that can be done or said that can change the losses and the destruction of the vows we spoke to each other.

I look at it as his choice, his responsibilty. The changes are permanent.

I have chosen to stay and start over and rebuild a new life with him and so far it is and has been closer and better...

He can give me no good reason for his affair, his thinking about his morals and his actions he has taken for his affair........

He just did it because he felt entitled to do so, because he was a selfish person.

Because it was more important to him than me or our life.........that was the choice.

Is he remorseful he says he is, does he show it, yes he does...but the bottom line is his choice.

I can accept his choice as his right to chose what he does with his life, I can accept he was okay ending the vows for this choice, I can accept he changed things .....but I can't accept things are the same now or that they don't hurt me or our family life...it has it always will..........It was not a mistake in my eyes it was a choice and choices don't need forgiveness..

They need acceptance, they need to be owned and not blamed on others ...

 

I am with my husband and this experience has actually brought us closer , the bs the lies are over as far as I can see with him.......

but I will not give forgiveness so he can feel better about his choices, that is his to own, he was a big boy making them. he can own them now......

it was a choice, this is how I see this situation it had nothing to do with me .

 

Am I hurt after 27 years of marriage that he has this little loyalty to our life, yes ...but that is on him not me.....

There are many reasons couples stay together. and a lot of things to consider and there is no guarantees it won't happen again, or that life will be happier.....we just take it day by day and see what happens and how we feel that day....

If you can accept someone else's choices as theirs and their crosses to bear, you won't have to take on that kind of responsibility for someone else that does wrong......it isn't yours to own...

To me acceptance gives you more understanding and relief, more than forgiveness could give you....

Eventually everyone gets to acceptance in any loss I just prefer to go there. A choice is not a mistake that needs forgiving....

call my crazy but it works for me .......WH has to accept it as well....it is what it is now...

 

this^^^^^^and still a possibility to live a very good life together. But sometimes we have to give the forgiveness burden to someone else.

[afoolto no end]

I think the person making the choices if they were honest knows the changes they made to the marriage and they should understand it wasn't a mistake, my husband is a very smart man who knows the truth of his choices......

For me accepting it was some kind of mistake instead of a choice hurts more. It's like I am accepting his disrespect of me and our life.....as well......I can't do that.

I can accept he made the choices willingly. and knew the consequences of those choices.......I guess it's up to him to understand and accept his choices as well for what they are......

We have decided to understand and let that all just be what it really is.

We have decided to stay together and work on a new life, starting over with new choices everyday......

For me it is a separate choice than the marriage issues itself I own my part in that...all marriages that are long have areas that may have been better and I am

Maybe I'm wrong. There was no mistake there was a choice......

Choices are accepted and choices are owned and the consequences are accepted by the choser at the time...........

For me it is a separate choice than the marriage issues itself I own my part in that...all marriages that are long have areas that may have been better and I am guilty of that as well as him, that is what we are working on, the new relationship.

 

 

guilty of that as well as him, that is what we are working on, the new relationship.

 

 

 

The affair had nothing to do with me or our marriage, that was his life....

I will not own that burden, I can accept he made those choices but I can't take that on as mine........

Looking it as a mistake and me accepting that kind of lie, I can't do that...

I look at it as me being as bad as him or helping him make those choices if I look at it as a mistake not a choice..

It is like any other loss in my life, I grieved, it's over and it's gone.....I am living my new life in a new way ........but something is and always will be over as it was...........am I happy, as happy as one can be when infidelity is a thing you have to process happened in your life and the choices one has to make in the midst of all that loss........

It is just a part of choosing to stay with someone who makes this choice....

Edited May 18, 2016 by afoolto no end

[wmacbride]

Not being a ws, I'm not pretending to know the answer to this, but is it possible to accept forgiveness from your bs when you haven't yet forgiven yourself?

[drifter777]

Oh we have our roller coaster nights - it can get pretty intense.

 

I will say, one detail I have left out of this thread is that he cheated 5 years prior. Situation, reasons, aftermath were all very different - so while not the same, I have been through "it" once before.

 

He says he is 100% into staying, making "us" work. I would just like to make that eaiser for him.

When I read this I immediately stop contributing, caring, or reading anymore of that thread. I'm sure it's not fair but that's me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Not being a ws, I'm not pretending to know the answer to this, but is it possible to accept forgiveness from your bs when you haven't yet forgiven yourself?

 

Accepting and seeking forgiveness from my betrayed spouse is much easier than forgiving myself.

 

If he cannot forgive me how can I possibly begin to forgive myself?

 

The day I gave full remorse he gave forgiveness... I have been working ever since to learn to forgive myself. It is a very hard road to travel

[NTV]

Wow. I don't know if it's helpful, but let me ask you a question. If you are forgiven, what changes? I mean are colors brighter? To you lose ten lbs? Are your teeth easier to clean? Will music be better?

 

 

Of course not. But what I'm getting at is what is the ACTUAL impact of forgiving someone? of forgiving yourself?

 

 

What are you expecting to occur?

[jen1447]

Wow. I don't know if it's helpful, but let me ask you a question. If you are forgiven, what changes?

 

That's easy - forgiveness is relief from the potentially massive burden of guilt, which can have a profound affect on the psyche and allow for genuine happiness in life, among other things. (Both for the forgiver and forgivee.)

[NTV]

That's easy - forgiveness is relief from the potentially massive burden of guilt, which can have a profound affect on the psyche and allow for genuine happiness in life, among other things. (Both for the forgiver and forgivee.)

 

 

 

Okay, so let's assume that. Then how would the three words 'I forgive you." Release a massive burden so easily? You would think that massive guilt would be something you had to work through over time, right?

[jen1447]

Okay, so let's assume that. Then how would the three words 'I forgive you." Release a massive burden so easily? You would think that massive guilt would be something you had to work through over time, right?

 

Assuming the words are genuine, it's a beginning. Baby steps. Have you ever been forgiven or forgiven someone for sth major? The relief in just that moment of saying it alone can be palpable.