Feeling Lied To By Disney and Chick Flicks

[MrDuck]

I don't take seriously what comes out of a Millenials' mouth.

Cause that doesn't sound disillusioned at all!

 

 

So, if they think their stupid marriage that started off for all the wrong reasons (ie shacking up) is gonna last them a lifetime, well good for them. Nice to see that some people still can dream.

Bitter much?

[preraph]

And for those of you who have suggested that I take responsibility for my own beliefs.....

 

When I was a devout Mormon, I, just like most devoutly religious people, held my beliefs tacitly, which means that I believed them because that's what I had always been taught, and I had never seriously considered that they were wrong. My source of authority was external. I believed my religion because a bunch of really important old guys in suits told me it was true. The truth was their responsibility, not mine. This is normal for what James Fowler would call Synthetic-Conventional Faith in his book Stages of Faith. When I had a crisis of faith about Mormonism, I went through a long process of demythologizing, where I had to compare my beliefs with reality, and I found to my horror that just about every religious claim made by Mormonism was either unlikely or was demonstrably false. It is through this process of demythologizing that a person takes responsibility for their own beliefs. So, like most people going through that phase, I had to stare into the abyss, and I had to grapple with existential nihilism in an attempt to find meaning in a meaningless universe. I came out of it with a different sense of meaning, and a view of the human experience that was more colorful, nuanced, and unavoidably slightly nihilistic, though I try not to focus on the nihilism too much.

 

Perhaps I've been operating under a similar set of beliefs about the nature of relationships. I've still believed the story of idealized relationships, because why shouldn't I? That's the way that everyone says it's supposed to be, including Disney movies, so why shouldn't I believe it? It obviously doesn't match my experience, but relationships are supposed to be happy because the authority of society says so.

 

But my experience tells a different story. I've found that my girlfriends are are about as good at answering text messages as God is at answering prayers. I eventually stopped believing in God, but for some reason, I kept believing in girlfriends. And just like Mormonism would blame me for God's unanswered prayers, I imagine you all would blame me for the unanswered text messages.

 

Perhaps it is time for me to explore relationship atheism the same way that I became a religious atheist.

 

I think you're having an epiphany, so slow down and let it all settle before you act on any of it! This probably isn't the time to try to find the right person, so just try to date and have fun. Change is nearly always good.

[Wave Rider]

Perhaps read some Joseph Campbell, an analyst of the meaning of myth. Myth is not to be taken literally and sometimes it conveys the crises of the human condition not the answers to it.

 

Yeah, this is what I was referring to when I talked about the monomyth. I haven't read Campbell's book The Hero with a Thousand Faces, though I may read it sometime. I grew up in a faith tradition, Mormonism, that was very literalistic. Most everything in Mormonism is considered to be literally true, including the Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, and the stories in the Book of Mormon.

 

I want to know who *everyone* and *society* are exactly. Because I can't ever recall hearing that this was the way relationships operate.

 

Outside of movies, who exactly told you that this stuff about love conquering all relationships? Have you not known of relationships where all the friends predict disaster?

 

Well, everybody I knew. In Mormonism, cultural norms prevent words like "sex" and "divorce" from being said in church. Even though a divorced Mormon is considered to basically be a defective human being, there's a push to get married as fast as possible, so a bad relationship is better than no relationship. No, nobody predicted relationship disaster for people, because the Lord provides for those who obey his commandments. So the story goes.

 

So now that you understand that life is really not a Disney movie .... is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

 

This is a bad thing. My brother's wife left him for a woman after less than three years of marriage. My parents were visibly dissastified with their marriage for most of my life, with the threat of divorce always hanging in the air. My mom told me that she wished she'd never gotten married and never had kids. My paternal grandparents fought in front of us, and my grandma was a narcisstic alcoholic. I never saw my maternal grandparents fight because they almost never spoke to each other. If this is what relationships are all about, I'll take the Disney fairy tale, please and thank you.

 

But honestly did you really want to live a life and have a relationship that follows a basic and predictable script you have seen on screen hundreds of times before ? You could encapsulate that life in 3 or 4 lines. Couldn't you instead choose to be happy, relieved and excited that you get to live a life and have relationships that are an unpredictable adventure that don't follow that boring and predictable script Disney tried to push on you ? One that when finished will be uniquely yours

 

Yes please, I would love the predictable Disney story. If what you mean by an unpredictable adventure is a woman who leaves me for another woman and a mom who says she wished she'd never gotten married and wished she'd never had kids, then please give me the predictable scripted lifestyle.

[xxoo]

You are vacillating between extremes: Disney fantasy perfect or Mormon experience of misery.

 

You should get to know some happily married people and learn what healthy relationships look like.

[Imajerk17]

 

 

Perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by neediness and "not masculine."

 

 

As this seems to relate to a few threads now current in this section, I will post here.

 

1. Neediness is having unrealistic expectations of others and being attached to them, which is precisely what you demonstrated by posting this thread. Disney is not your parent, Wave Rider. Neither are the producers of rom-coms. Their mission is to produce entertainment, not to teach you the ways of the world.

 

2. Masculinity draws its state from within. Ever notice that the personality traits resolve, sticking to your guns, confidence, cool under pressure, are typically associated with attractive men? Masculine men do take seriously the opinions of other people whom they respect. But they certainly aren't drawing their state from Disney movies.

[NTV]

Dude, you feel lied to by Disney?!?!? I f*cking married a frog with the expectation it would turn into a hot chick from new Orleans that could play jazz music and cook.

 

 

Now I hunt bugs for a living.

 

 

Do you have any idea how much alimony is needed to divorce a frog??? I could buy a zoo... actually I'd have too under GA law.

 

 

<sigh> I'm just hoping to outlive her at this point.

[Aniela]

I think most people marry, thinking/hoping that their marriage will last a lifetime.

[katiegrl]

Yes please, I would love the predictable Disney story. If what you mean by an unpredictable adventure is a woman who leaves me for another woman and a mom who says she wished she'd never gotten married and wished she'd never had kids, then please give me the predictable scripted lifestyle.

 

Fair enough but allow me to challenge you on something.

 

If the predictable, safe secure RL is what you want, then why do you choose to remain in dysfunctional relationships with women who are just like your mom and dad?

 

You have posted about this before, so I am challenging you on that.

 

I am not talking about your initial attraction, we can't help who we become attracted to.

 

I am talking about why you chose to REMAIN in the RL once you discover it doesn't have the legs to ultimately give you what you want. Or what you claim to want.

 

I know why, because it's familiar. This is very common and understandable. This is what you grew up around so it's familiar to you, you are drawn to it.

 

But seriously, if it's not what you want WR, then find the strength to walk away from it.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting that Disney fairy tale happily ever after scenario.

 

But choosing to remain with women who are not capable of giving that to you is an exercise in futility.

 

You are not going to resolve this by staying with them (as you seem to think and have posted about).

 

You will resolve by recognizing your pattern, and taking steps to break that pattern.

 

By choosing differently. By taking steps to become more emotionally healthy, and in turn, having RLs with women who are also emotionally healthy.

Edited May 17, 2016 by katiegrl

[Haydn]

I hear you, brother. I felt the same way when I found out vampires weren't real and dinosaurs were extinct.

 

 

Those bastards. Playing us like violins.

 

Saw a Velociraptor, jump the lights today.

[Aniela]

We love Disney. TV shows, Movies, Parks, cruises - we have done them all.

 

Yes some of its older movies have a ton of issues, but it never warped my older daughter. I think Disney has grown as our society has.

 

The new Maleficent movie showed how "evil" characters might have complex origins and are capable of redemption.

 

Frozen had a good message about "true love" it was not from a man - but from sacrifice for your family. In fact falling in love for some new prince was shown to be false and unwise. Oh and how about that short but significant plug for a homosexual lead family in that shop ?

 

The jungle book movie recently remade, had some good messages for my youngest and we all enjoyed it.

 

and lets not forget Disney's role in accepting LBGT community to its parks with special days - focusing on love and families of all types - not hate.

 

I liked both Maleficent, and Frozen, for this reason! From what I remember, in Maleficent, "true love" also didn't come from the prince. It's about time.

[Wave Rider]

fairy tales are what you read your kids at night so they can go to sleep dreaming beautiful things....

 

So why don't we read children reality tales instead of fairy tales at bedtime?

 

Death and taxes. Everything else is random and uncertain.

 

See, but I think that there is some kind of social contract implied in these movies. It's like when they tell high school kids, "If you work hard and get good grades, you'll get into a good college and you'll have a successful life." There's a social contract there: If you do X for society, society will do Y for you. In the case of Disney movies, the social contract is that if you keep believing in true love and you're a good person, then good will triumph over evil and true love will find you someday.

 

As a scientist, I recognize the power that stochasticity has in our lives. But that's not the message in these movies.

 

In fact, reading the close to original versions is a better preparation for life because they clearly illustrate just how fraught with danger the woods (real world outside of childhood) are, and clearly depicted the kinds of characters and the attendant behaviours one wants to avoid (that wolf in grandma's bed). Fairytales were useful instruction in life, before Disney got a hold of them.

 

In this case they would be called reality tales, not fairy tales.

 

The high marriage success rate. Remember, 68% of first marriages last, and many of us grew up in loving homes with married parents. That was my role model, not Disney. And now my own children are growing up in a loving home with married parents, so don't be surprised if they eventually marry believing it will last.

 

Apparently you were luckier than me.

 

It's not Disney's fault or the makers of chick flick movies. It's your parents job to teach you that these movies are fiction. It's their responsibility to teach you the skills to cope with reality and navigate through the real world.

 

If, as an adult, you feel that your parents (or Disney) failed you, it's up to you to be your own parent, in a way. It's your responsibility to evolve into a well rounded, capable, self sufficient and emotionally mature individual.

 

Well, my parents were too busy being miserable in their marriage to teach me much about real life. So I had Disney and Mormonism to teach me. I get it that it's my responsibility to learn to live differently. But it's not as easy as you might think. If it was, I would have already been doing it.

 

I hear you, brother. I felt the same way when I found out vampires weren't real and dinosaurs were extinct.

 

 

Those bastards. Playing us like violins.

 

I admit that I am somewhat shocked that not a single person has agreed with or sympathized with what I said in my OP. Apparently, most people's life experience has been quite different from mine.

 

I read that. You take it back right now! I know Santa is alive and well because I sat on his Lap last year and he said he wasn't my brothers work mate dressed up with spray glitter eyebrows!!! He said so himself and promised me a new pony and a lexus!!!

 

As I've said, I'm not saying that I believed that the stories were literally true, but I believed that the message were true, messages like "good always triumphs over evil" and "love conquers all."

 

The new Maleficent movie showed how "evil" characters might have complex origins and are capable of redemption

 

It's true that some of the themes have changed in recent years. Finding Nemo featured a single dad, and some recent movies don't have much romance at all.

 

I see this, then, as a disservice that your family did to you. Why on earth they would leave your relationship learning to TV and movies without you being able to glean even the slightest glimmer from the relationships around you is a huge disservice.

 

Well, the relationships on the big screen were a lot better than the relationships in my childhood life. What's wrong with wanting those better relationships?

[Aniela]

Saw a Velociraptor, jump the lights today.

 

Suddenly glad that I don't live in England, anymore...

[Haydn]

Suddenly glad that I don't live in England, anymore...

 

Maybe it was someone from Surrey.....

[TheArtist]

I read that. You take it back right now! I know Santa is alive and well because I sat on his Lap last year and he said he wasn't my brothers work mate dressed up with spray glitter eyebrows!!! He said so himself and promised me a new pony and a lexus!!!

 

You gave Santa a lapdance?! Does that put you on the naughty or nice list?

 

Saw a Velociraptor, jump the lights today.

 

Is that a Morrissey lyric? It sounds like it could be. I mean, you're the expert, but I'm right, right?

Edited May 17, 2016 by TheArtist

[xxoo]

Waverider, do you have a decent social group now, as an adult? Have you built a social network outside of your religious upbringing?

[Liam1]

I, like most kids in America, grew up watching Disney movies, which present a specific narrative for relationships, and thus a set of expectations. In Disney movies, a young hero, usually male, receives a call to adventure. He then passes a series of tests, having received the help of sage gurus along the way. He defeats the villain, wins the heart of the maiden, restores justice to the universe, and lives happily ever after with his maiden. You may recognize this as the monomyth.

 

Or in chick flicks, guy meets girl, they hate each other, then destiny brings them together, and through some unlikely chain of events the fall in love and live happily ever after. Again, this presents a specific set of expectations for relationships.

 

We're all here on this forum because we know that these stories are completely wrong.

 

In the real world, seeking relationships is all about approach anxiety, rejection, waiting, wondering, analyzing, half-interested people, cheating, power struggles, divorce, alimony, child support, partners who aren't "in the mood," clingy partners, distant partners, rejection, breakups, make-ups, misunderstandings, failed expectations, and occasional good times. Oh yeah, and rejection too.

 

So if the hero's story and the chick flick are unrelated to real relationships, why do we continue to act as if those stories are real, and continue to pay money to see those movies?

 

The fact is that most people still believe in the relationship fairy tale. 86% of Millennials expect their marriage to last a lifetime. In spite of the outward cynicism about relationships and 50% divorce rate, most people still believe that they will someday find their fairy tale relationship.

 

I feel lied to by Disney. They took my money and told me relationship lies. Chick flicks did the same thing.

 

I don't know what realistic relationship expectations are. Should I hope for the fairy tale relationship, but set aside money for the divorce lawyer just in case? Should I approach each woman thinking that she could be the one, knowing full well that this conversation probably won't be much different that most of the others I've had? Is there any point in believing the fairy tale - as most people secretly do - when the reality is much different? What are realistic expectations?

 

Like everything else, people likely continue to pay to see these type of movies because movies are all about fantasy. Hollywood is fantasy. Advertising is fantasy. People like the fairy tale.

 

IMO, people realize the movie is a fairy tale and they pay to see the fantasy of the way they wish things to be.

 

They go to the movie and for a few hours they feel happy and uplifted and hopeful.

 

Perhaps, too, it gives people something to strive for.

[Liam1]

There is indeed more subtlety in this statistic. The divorce rate is lower for first marriages and higher for second and third marriages. My understanding is that for first marriages, it's about 32%. For Second marriages, it's 60%, and for third marriages, it's 70%. So you could make the case that it's really the same people who are getting married and divorced over and over. The cycle is cohabit, marry, divorce, repeat. Still, people getting married for a second, third, or fourth time still believe that finally, this marriage will last a lifetime. And they're usually wrong. And a 32% divorce rate for first marriages is still far higher than Disney taught me. Divorce doesn't exist at all in the world of Disney and chick flicks.

 

IMO, the people who divorce once, twice, thrice, are likely people who have unrealistic expectations of a long term marriage and thus give up too quickly at the slightest hiccup in the relationship.

 

The people who stay married may have weathered many storms, but they do not necessarily talk about those storms to other people.

 

So outsiders see a perfect marriage that lasted a long time, but in reality, there were many ups and downs that both spouses worked through and survived.

[Haydn]

You gave Santa a lapdance?! Does that put you on the naughty or nice list?

 

 

 

Is that a Morrissey lyric? It sounds like it could be. I mean, you're the expert, but I'm right, right?

 

`November spawned a Velociraptor`

 

But seriously OP,

 

Disney films, lead you on?? I doubt anyone sits down and expects nothing less than a happy ending. I know i do.

 

I mean if Bambi ended badly, a chainsaw from the virgin Beaver.....

 

 

And obviously Snow White invites some vile interpretations....(Some height issues)

 

Rapunzel? Obviously about a receding hairline.....

 

 

 

I really must get out more.

[Liam1]

 

So you are making the case that I am unable to discern between fantasy and reality. Is that right? I respond with this: to the Christian, the Muslim's religion is fantasy. To the Muslim, the Christian's religion is fantasy. To the atheist, they are both fantasy. So how do we determine fantasy from reality? And is it such a strange part of the human condition to believe in fantasy?

 

They have faith in their chosen God.

 

Faith in religion is: A firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

 

Nothing wrong with having faith. Just sayin'.

 

I think fairy tales were written as parables that were meant to teach something through story telling.

 

But as others have mentioned, Disney movies also had wicked stepmothers, witches and Cruella Deville.

[Liam1]

Well, a single kiss can transform a person's world.

 

Yes. Sometimes it can. At least at that moment in time.

 

So can a kind word, a pat on the shoulder and a hug.

 

It may not permanently fix things, but it helps to get us through.

[NTV]

I hear you, brother. I felt the same way when I found out vampires weren't real and dinosaurs were extinct.

 

 

Those bastards. Playing us like violins.

 

 

 

Wait.... vampires aren't real?!?!??! I wish you would have kept that to yourself... please excuse me while I go find a new plan for immortality....

[mrldii]

I think most people marry, thinking/hoping that their marriage will last a lifetime.

 

 

One way or another, this appears to be true.

 

 

Why, look at our very own NTV, who's *normally* completely anti-marriage:

 

...<sigh> I'm just hoping to outlive her at this point.

 

If that's not a desire for "a marriage that lasts a lifetime [hers]", I don't know what is!!!

 

 

[thefooloftheyear]

The divorce rate isn't 50%. That's a myth based on numbers skewed by individuals who divorce repeatedly.

 

Disney and chick flicks? I've been married over 20 years, and I love my life, but it ain't no disney or Rom Com....and I never expected it to be

 

Don't want to be the wet blanket here, but

 

In fairness, think about how badly the numbers would be skewed if the millions of people who are married and miserable actually went ahead and divorced instead of wallowing in misery because of kids, finances, or whatever...

 

TFY

[Liam1]

I like you. And I think that nobody but we Aussies understand the Malteser reference. Though you have given me a craving right now.

 

I am pretty sure he is referring to the Mars candy.

 

Or maybe he's talking about someone who is brunette on the outside and blonde on the inside.

[RecentChange]

All I am going to say is I am glad I have had a distane for Disney - ever since I was a kid (my mom LOVES Disney, and couldn't believe I hated it - I didn't even want to go to Disneyland!)

 

And I don't watch movies - they do not interest me.

 

Add a distrust and lack of doctrination in any religion - I feel like I have avoided the influence of these fairy tales.

 

Hum.... Mom was raised Catholic, Disney fairytale fanatic - married and divorced 5 times before her 45th birthday.

 

Siblings and I - can't stand Disney, raised atheist, sister's marriage is now going on 20 years, brother is coming up on his 25th anniversary, and I have been in a committed relationship for 15 years.