Feeling Lied To By Disney and Chick Flicks

[Grumpybutfun]

I hear you, brother. I felt the same way when I found out vampires weren't real and dinosaurs were extinct.

 

 

Those bastards. Playing us like violins.

 

GT,

Yep, we have officially jumped the shark....

Grumps

[Liam1]

 

Yes please, I would love the predictable Disney story. If what you mean by an unpredictable adventure is a woman who leaves me for another woman and a mom who says she wished she'd never gotten married and wished she'd never had kids, then please give me the predictable scripted lifestyle.

 

Well, see, now you found your answer.

 

The Disney movies are meant to make people feel good despite the reality of having a crappy life.

 

With that said, I do think that sometimes they have the opposite effect, when someone has a crappy life.

[Haydn]

GT,

Yep, we have officially jumped the shark....

Grumps

 

No idea why i liked that, must be you G.

[xxoo]

I think Disney movies are meant to provide wholesome, uplifting entertainment for kids.

 

Does anyone truly think that it would be more appropriate for Disney to attempt to entertain children with the realities of bad life choices? Teenagers seek out the dystopian films, the rated R movies, the vulgar and the rude humor. They are transitioning away from the fantasy of childhood and into the realities of adulthood.

[Grumpybutfun]

No idea why i liked that, must be you G.

 

H,

Didn't you watch the classic Happy Days when you were a wee lad? Fonzie actually jumped a shark in water skis and so it became a term for when something became outlandish....

G

[NTV]

One way or another, this appears to be true.

 

 

Why, look at our very own NTV, who's *normally* completely anti-marriage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, to be fair, I doubt it would be a legal marriage outside of GA. the state has yet to recognize the marriage contract for tax purposes, but is more than willing to take the filing fee for the divorce petition. Go figure.

[dreamingoftigers]

I grew up Mormon, so I grew up on Disney movies[]. []I think that most kids spend more time during their formative years with Disney [], so that has a stronger effect on relationship expectations.

 

 

I joined the church in 2002. In the church it isn't unrealistic to have your marriage last a lifetime. Only 13% of marriage made up of both LDS people DO divorce.

 

However I notice that kids often raised in the church are raised in what I call "the bubble."

 

My ex grew up in "the bubble" for instance. For a lot of Mormons, that works okay because they respect their relationships, and marry other people who were raised to respect relationships. But for those unlucky kids who were raised in the bubble, that manage to marry someone that does NOT share the bubble philosophy, ouch!

 

My husband was raised in the "Jehovah's Witness bubble" and that was pretty destructive to him. He didn't want to be a witness and was completely naive to the world when he went into at 15. He ended up homeless on the streets of Toronto,and the got into about every drug / alcohol / bad situation you can imagine. He ended up having MAJOR trust issues and just about imploded our marriage years later.

 

It's true that 20% of marriages last less the five years, but that's not the expectation. The expectation for most people is still that marriage will last a lifetime. I would say that almost none of that 20% expected their marriage to be so short. Otherwise, they would't have gotten married. Or at the very least, they would have shopped for divorce lawyers at the same time they were shopping for a wedding dress if they really did not believe it would last.

 

So honestly, if Disney and chick flick movies were the cause of a poor relationship template for you, I would strongly saybthat they should NOT have been presented that way.

 

My mother, alothough I would say she's fairly naive herself would watch shows with me and she would TALK to me about the content in them. Turns out, that's pretty much bang-on parenting.

 

It isn't so much "what the world presents to us" that influenced us. It tends to be "How do our parents role-model how to react to it."

 

If I watch, say, The Affair with a teenage daughter (not really appropriate, but let's ride with the example). And throughout the show I say nothing, it looks like acceptance of the behaviour and that "hey this is how relationships start off. He looks at her, she looks at him, they want to bang, they screw over both their spouses and each other, bravo!"

 

But if I say, "oh jeez. That's pretty awful. Look at the heartbreak his wife is going through. Look at how much this messes up the husband's family. What an awful betrayal and disrespect. I hope you never treat someone or allow anyone to treat you that way." It makes a difference.

 

You see, the world is going to display all kinds of emotional diaharrea to kids. Kids entertainment can even be pretty awful. It's up to us as parents to really give our kids the mental template to work with.

 

It's really important to make that distinction young that entertainment can influence you, it's your job to behave respectfully, it's your job to guard you mind and heart and that "this stuff isn't realistic."

[dreamingoftigers]

The divorce rate isn't 50%. That's a myth based on numbers skewed by individuals who divorce repeatedly.

 

Disney and chick flicks? I've been married over 20 years, and I love my life, but it ain't no disney or Rom Com....and I never expected it to be

 

 

Canada's is 37-38%.

 

And that with the repeat divorces too.

 

One more reason besydes Trump to move north.

[dreamingoftigers]

There is indeed more subtlety in this statistic. The divorce rate is lower for first marriages and higher for second and third marriages. My understanding is that for first marriages, it's about 32%. For Second marriages, it's 60%, and for third marriages, it's 70%. So you could make the case that it's really the same people who are getting married and divorced over and over. The cycle is cohabit, marry, divorce, repeat. Still, people getting married for a second, third, or fourth time still believe that finally, this marriage will last a lifetime. And they're usually wrong. And a 32% divorce rate for first marriages is still far higher than Disney taught me. Divorce doesn't exist at all in the world of Disney and chick flicks.

 

When I was in my late teens I used to watch a lot of porn.

 

Imagine my disappointment when I ordered a pizza delivered and I'll I got was a pizza. :lmao:

 

Kidding....

[katiegrl]

Canada's is 37-38%.

 

And that with the repeat divorces too.

 

One more reason besydes Trump to move north.

 

Here in southern cali, divorce rate is 86%.

 

I'm thinking Costa Rica.

[Wave Rider]

You are vacillating between extremes: Disney fantasy perfect or Mormon experience of misery.

 

This is true, because these are the only two models I've had. The Mormon view of marriage, as taught by the Church, is just as much fantasy as Disney movies. On the one hand I had the Disney fantasy of relationships, on the other hand I had the bad relationships of my parents and grandparents. I actually don't know what a good relationship looks like.

 

You should get to know some happily married people and learn what healthy relationships look like.

I'm not sure how to do this, because hanging out with married people is kinda creepy. I don't have any close married friends here, or any close friends in a good relationship. As an undergrad, the best male friend I had was married, and he seemed to have a good marriage. But hanging out with him and his wife would have been weird and creepy, and I wouldn't get to see much of their real relationship anyway because they'd be putting on their cordial social front. How, exactly, does an unmarried person observe healthy relationships?

 

Waverider, do you have a decent social group now, as an adult? Have you built a social network outside of your religious upbringing?

 

I have a decent social group here, and none of them are Mormon. I had closer friends as an undergrad, most of which were Mormon. I make friends OK, though the friends I have now aren't as close as the friends I've had in the past.

 

Fair enough but allow me to challenge you on something.

 

If the predictable, safe secure RL is what you want, then why do you choose to remain in dysfunctional relationships with women who are just like your mom and dad?

...

I am not talking about your initial attraction, we can't help who we become attracted to.

 

I am talking about why you chose to REMAIN in the RL once you discover it doesn't have the legs to ultimately give you what you want. Or what you claim to want.

 

I know why, because it's familiar. This is very common and understandable. This is what you grew up around so it's familiar to you, you are drawn to it.

 

But seriously, if it's not what you want WR, then find the strength to walk away from it.

 

 

See, I did this in my last relationship. After having been in a relationship with a cold and distant woman previously, I specifically wanted a warmer and more affectionate woman. But I just ended up being attracted to another cold and distant woman anyway. So in that relationship, my most recent relationship, I did call her out on it and I told her that if things didn't change, I would end the relationship. We decided to keep trying. Two days later she ended the relationship.

 

So sure, I can break up with a cold and distant woman, but I'm just going to be attracted to another one. So I might as well save myself the time and pain of finding someone new, and just go ahead and stay in the bad relationship and trying to fix things, because if I leave, I'm just going to be attracted to another bad relationship. I actually wish I had done this in my last relationship instead of threatening to end it if things didn't change. We can't help who we're attracted to.

 

The explanation here is repetition compulsion. I was emotionally wounded by my cold and distant father, so I unconsciously re-create that trauma by seeking relationships with cold and distant women in the hope that this time the outcome will be different. The psyche tries to heal the trauma by re-creating and repeating it in hope of getting it right this time. But it almost never works. The only way it would work is if she was on board with change as well. That's why I'm trying Imago therapy.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Wave Rider

[xxoo]

 

I'm not sure how to do this, because hanging out with married people is kinda creepy. I don't have any close married friends here. As an undergrad, the best male friend I had was married, and he seemed to have a good marriage. But hanging out with him and his wife would have been weird and creepy, and I wouldn't get to see much of their real relationship anyway because they'd be putting on their cordial social front. How, exactly, does an unmarried person observe healthy relationships?

 

I got married young, and have had made both single and married friends consistently over the years. There is nothing creepy about being friends with married people, or hanging out with them.

 

My husband and I met people through our neighborhood or through work for the most part. In both cases, the company has typically been a mix of genders, ages, married and single, parents and non parents. We've attended weddings because we've been friends with single people. Single friends become married friends, married friends get divorced, so it is easy to have friends of different statuses.

[darkbloom]

I think if you expect everyone/everything to let you down, you won't end up too surprised. (Including Disney movies.)

[NTV]

I think if you expect everyone/everything to let you down, you won't end up too surprised. (Including Disney movies.)

 

I really that you would say more.... But I should have expected as much...

[xxoo]

I think if you expect everyone/everything to let you down, you won't end up too surprised. (Including Disney movies.)

 

There is only one person to rely on: yourself.

 

Then other relationships are pursued for the best reasons--sharing life together, joys doubled, sorrows halved. Not out of "need".

[todreaminblue]

So why don't we read children reality tales instead of fairy tales at bedtime?

 

 

Who says we cant mix it up......sometimes i wouldnt even read fairy tales i would make them up myself about animals and children....to my younge rsister....to my kids....to my grandkids....

 

 

wave rider...fairy tales have their place.....not all traditional fairy tales were written in the essence of sweetness and light....a few of them were written to make political statements or to deal with dark periods in history or to deal with dark people..........like nursery rhymes were also the same...

 

either way....children do not suffer from being read fairy tales.....children suffer when their dad beats up their mum..or they starve while a gambolling habit takes all their money...or their older brother dies in a head on car crash high on meth..or their mother was an ex hooker who slept with more men than a small country town.....these are realities i feel and strongly i believe are things no child should see or hear or know.....why?

 

because children need to stay children as long as they possibly can...keep the message of reality for when their little hearts and minds can deal with it....i grew up young....and it would have been nice to stay a child,......while i was a child..thats my belief..deb

[Grumpybutfun]

I feel lied to and let down by the NFL. I thought if I just ran fast enough, played with all my heart and hit hard enough, I would be swimming in cash right now with a skull fracture and a posse.

G

[NTV]

I feel lied to and let down by the NFL. I thought if I just ran fast enough, played with all my heart and hit hard enough, I would be swimming in cash right now with a skull fracture and a posse.

G

 

I thought you would too.

[xxoo]

 

because children need to stay children as long as they possibly can...keep the message of reality for when their little hearts and minds can deal with it....i grew up young....and it would have been nice to stay a child,......while i was a child..thats my belief..deb

 

 

Amen, deb.

 

Kids tend to push to grow up in their teens, regardless. It's a natural progression, and they become curious about the darker sides of life. There is no harm in allowing children to be children.

[veggirl]

IMO blogs, message boards, instagram, facebook, pinterest, snapchat etc are a bigger problem nowadays than fictional movies. They allow REAL people to curate their lives and present them as perfect, glossy, pictures...causing SOME other people to expect THEIR lives to be the same picture-"perfect" scene. Keeping up with the Joneses is a WAY bigger problem than Disney movies and chick flicks.

[todreaminblue]

Amen, deb.

 

Kids tend to push to grow up in their teens, regardless. It's a natural progression, and they become curious about the darker sides of life. There is no harm in allowing children to be children.

 

too true......children need to believe in beauty and hope and love and all the good things.....to have that sense of wonder...to believe they can make a difference ......fairytales often teach simple principles.....easy to grab a childs heart....like for example the traditional story of the fisherman and his wife..the moral being dont be greedy...count your blessings.....

 

or finding nemo......things can be achieved when you stick together....having different friends like dory who forgets everything...of acceptance and courage and being little but being great.........beautiful things .....sweet thoughts......one thing that i love....is that i can watch these movies and read these stories to my kids ....and i am there again....among sweet dreams....sweet thoughts....and smiles...smiles from kids of mine who love the stories and the movies .....and my teens still watch disney movies.....even the teen who overcame a drug habit who now is mentally impaired because of said drug habit......will sit and watch....the goonies(its her fave).....she knows how tough life is...but she also appreciates the simplistic and the beautiful.the sweet.......i am so glad about that.....

 

 

complications come...when we attempt to be adults too young who have also forgotten the fairy tales and our childhoods.......

 

thanks xxoo i agree whole-heartedly with your post......deb.....

[whichwayisup]

I feel lied to by Disney. They took my money and told me relationship lies. Chick flicks did the same thing.

I get what you're saying but if you truly were expecting relationships to be like hollywood movies or chick flicks, sorry to say, that's on you.

 

Road runner vs coyote. Perfect example, enough said.

[katiegrl]

 

See, I did this in my last relationship. After having been in a relationship with a cold and distant woman previously, I specifically wanted a warmer and more affectionate woman. But I just ended up being attracted to another cold and distant woman anyway. So in that relationship, my most recent relationship, I did call her out on it and I told her that if things didn't change, I would end the relationship. We decided to keep trying. Two days later she ended the relationship.

 

So sure, I can break up with a cold and distant woman, but I'm just going to be attracted to another one. So I might as well save myself the time and pain of finding someone new, and just go ahead and stay in the bad relationship and trying to fix things, because if I leave, I'm just going to be attracted to another bad relationship. I actually wish I had done this in my last relationship instead of threatening to end it if things didn't change. We can't help who we're attracted to.

 

The explanation here is repetition compulsion. I was emotionally wounded by my cold and distant father, so I unconsciously re-create that trauma by seeking relationships with cold and distant women in the hope that this time the outcome will be different. The psyche tries to heal the trauma by re-creating and repeating it in hope of getting it right this time. But it almost never works. The only way it would work is if she was on board with change as well. That's why I'm trying Imago therapy.

 

With respect to underlined, why do you need to be in any RL at all? Why not be alone for a while, and continue learning about and working on yourself, your unhealthy patterns and find ways to resolve.... so you won't continue this unhealthy pattern of becoming attracted to women who are all wrong for you?

 

That is what a few other posters were referring to earlier when they called you needy. Why do you NEED to be in a RL, and a bad, unhealthy one no less? This doesn't make sense to me.

 

Frankly I would rather be alone than in a dysfunctional RL where I felt I constantly needed to fix things. What's the point of that? You never will be able to fix anything anyway, except maybe yourself, so why even try?

 

That said, I DO understand repetition compulsion. To share my story, I grew up with a very cold and emotionally distant mom and a very warm, loving and caring dad.

 

When I first started dating (before learning, growing, evolving), I found myself being drawn to men who were cold and distant like my mom, but then ended up rejecting them because they weren't like my warm and caring dad!

 

Since recognizing my pattern and doing a lot of introspecting, reading and other work on myself, combined with therapy, I now reject cold and distant men straight from the get go.

 

And focus on men who are warm and caring like my dad.

 

I don't even become attracted to cold and distant men anymore.... in fact they turn me OFF. Ugh, no thank you!

 

I hope you can eventually come to that place to Wave Runner.... it's so freeing!

 

And I am so much happier.

 

Being aware of it is your first step. Now put it into practice. It takes a lot of hard work.... and dedication to breaking old unhealthy patterns, so be patient with yourself.

 

And continue introspecting, reading, learning, growing, evolving and if you can try and find a qualified therapist to help you through it.

 

Good luck!

Edited May 17, 2016 by katiegrl

[Revolver]

:cool:Some of my favorite films of all time are Disney movies or chick flicks(Lion King, Meangirls, etc)

[Wave Rider]

Does anyone truly think that it would be more appropriate for Disney to attempt to entertain children with the realities of bad life choices? Teenagers seek out the dystopian films, the rated R movies, the vulgar and the rude humor. They are transitioning away from the fantasy of childhood and into the realities of adulthood.

 

I was not allowed to do this as a Mormon. I was required to watch only wholesome entertainment that would keep me "pure and unspotted from the world."

 

My mother, alothough I would say she's fairly naive herself would watch shows with me and she would TALK to me about the content in them. Turns out, that's pretty much bang-on parenting.

 

Um, no, this didn't happen for me. We followed the typical Mormon standards in entertainment: anything with swearing, sex, crude jokes, or excessive violence was not allowed. Most other things were OK, except for a few shows my mom didn't like. My parents never talked to us about entertainment. The only sex talks I got from my parents were a "birds and the bees" talk from my mom and a very awkward chastity talk from my dad.

 

With respect to underlined, why do you need to be in any RL at all? Why not be alone for a while, and continue learning about and working on yourself, your unhealthy patterns and find ways to resolve.... so you won't continue this unhealthy pattern of becoming attracted to women who are all wrong for you?

 

See, I've been in the dating scene for quite awhile, and I've spent less than a year of that in relationships. So I think I'm well past the point of "finding myself outside of a relationship." I've done my time in that prison of aloneness, making friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married. At some point in an adult man's life, it seems immature to continue chasing skirts around and spending time looking for cheap thrills. I wouldn't say that I've exactly done that, but I've been living the life of the eternal college student, and at some point it seems that the excitement of the prolonged adolescence should give way to a life of more commitment and substance. Plus, I feel like I've hit a wall of personal development because there's really only so far a person can grow if they're single. At some point, it seems that life would require a relationship, to heal the wounds of the past and to grow beyond the eternal adolescence that is being a single man.

 

As this seems to relate to a few threads now current in this section, I will post here.

 

1. Neediness is having unrealistic expectations of others and being attached to them, which is precisely what you demonstrated by posting this thread. Disney is not your parent, Wave Rider. Neither are the producers of rom-coms. Their mission is to produce entertainment, not to teach you the ways of the world.

 

2. Masculinity draws its state from within. Ever notice that the personality traits resolve, sticking to your guns, confidence, cool under pressure, are typically associated with attractive men? Masculine men do take seriously the opinions of other people whom they respect. But they certainly aren't drawing their state from Disney movies.

 

Ok, I think I see where the disconnect is on neediness. I don't think that unrealistic expectations are really neediness, unless you're using neediness as an umbrella term to describe most any dysfunctional relationship behavior. Back in the late 80s and 90s it was fashionable to talk about codependence as the root of all relationship problems. So I guess if you had relationship problems in 1992, people would say that it's because you're codependent, and if you have relationship problems in 2016, people would say that it's because you're too needy.

 

And on masculinity, I have yet to really see a coherent model for masculinity, or how to develop it. I agree that using Disney movies as models for life isn't exactly masculine, but I haven't really heard a better model at this point. It seems to me that you are from the PUA school of thought, where neediness the "problem" and masculinity is the "answer."

Edited May 18, 2016 by Wave Rider