It's all fun and games until someone gets eviscerated

[Got it]

LOL, my MM told me I most disagreeable and difficult as an OW.

 

Maybe being an awful OW is the recipe for a lasting relationship?

 

Yep I was a very high maintenance OW. And my job was not to make life sweet and easy for him so no pussy footing around.

[Liam1]

LOL, my MM told me I most disagreeable and difficult as an OW.

 

Maybe being an awful OW is the recipe for a lasting relationship?

 

I liked the fact that my OW was disagreeable and thus, at least for me, unlikeable.

 

I noticed that about her from the beginning and it was one reason I chose her to have the affair with.

 

I was not looking to leave my wife.

[Liam1]

Thanks for weighing in, @Liam1. It's always good to have the perspective of a MM.

 

Perhaps you missed the part about me not wanting him to leave his wife for me. I meant it, even after we fell for each other. I may be protecting myself somewhat by claiming not to have wanted him even if he had been available - in some parallel universe, it would have been nice to see where things might have led under different circumstances - but I wasn't certain enough about our long-term compatibility to have the dissolution of his marriage on my conscience. A relationship would have to be pretty rock solid (and the marriage he is leaving pretty ****ty) to withstand that kind of stress. And how do you evaluate the strength of a prospective relationship if you can't subject it to "real life" challenges? I am mourning the loss of the affair, exactly as it was, not some white picket fence happily ever after delusion.

 

You also seem to have overlooked the fact that HE backtracked on the original agreement, not me. Well, technically we both did, but HIS feelings, and the detrimental impact they were having on his marriage, were the reason he couldn't continue.

 

No. I read the entire thread. That was why I mentioned and affair addiction. Some people confuse that with love. An affair is so removed from a person's normal life that it is easy to think the affair high will last.

 

I object to the notion that MM don't leave their wives simply because they don't fall "deeply enough" in love with the AP. I can't generalize because I (thankfully) don't have a large enough data pool to draw upon, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that some pull the plug preemptively when they see things going in that direction because they don't WANT to leave their marriage.

You certainly can object. I am not in your relationship and maybe your guy does really love you. It happens.

 

Still, sometimes MM future fake, though, or say things to let the OW down gently. Sometimes, too, they just like to say romantic things. It's part of the affair fantasy.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Liam1

[Poppy47]

No. I read the entire thread. That was why I mentioned and affair addiction. Some people confuse that with love. An affair is so removed from a person's normal life that it is easy to think the affair high will last.

 

You certainly can object. I am not in your relationship and maybe your guy does really love you. It happens.

 

Still, sometimes MM future fake, though, or say things to let the OW down gently. Sometimes, too, they just like to say romantic things. It's part of the affair fantasy.

 

Do you think a MM is capable of maintaining the A romance and fantasy for 7 years?

 

Poppy.

[Sunnycalb808]

Sure, why not? Esp if MM compartmentalizes well then yeah he could surely keep the A fantasy going for 7 years. Since u dont live with OW the fantasy and feel-good endorphins are easy to keep going long term Id imagine.

[ShamanLover]

Wow. Tough crowd. One poster chastises me for callously underestimating the sincerity of my MM’s feelings, and another derides me for grandiosely overestimating it. You guys really know how to put the support in support group.

[WasOtherWoman]

I liked the fact that my OW was disagreeable and thus, at least for me, unlikeable.

 

I noticed that about her from the beginning and it was one reason I chose her to have the affair with.

 

I was not looking to leave my wife.

 

I was only disagreeable as my MM's OW. I've been his wife for 15 years now, he likes me much better now

 

edited to add: I am a very strategic person. In my mind it did not make sense to be "agreeable" as an OW, i.e. make it easy and pleasant for my MM to have both a wife and a mistress. If he found me that disagreeable, he could much more easily have rid himself of me than his wife... that would have been fine with me also.

Edited May 20, 2016 by WasOtherWoman

[Outofmysystem]

Sometimes the MM means it too....yes you can extend the feelings and good time for years, mine was 6....my MOW pulled the plug though....had we reached the end?, clearly she had....Affairs by nature burn too hot to last forever, I thought we'd go on longer till we just finally left our spouses and got together ourselves......I see now though, in 8 months out of it all the realizations and commonality that is inherent in these type of relationships......not to mention the Red Flags, the patterns that she told me about in her past.....she was just repeating them but with me.....

 

Shaman, I wish you comfort, I know the pain and the hurt.....all that is real, even if the other stuff might be a question.

[ChickiePops]

Wow. Tough crowd. One poster chastises me for callously underestimating the sincerity of my MM’s feelings, and another derides me for grandiosely overestimating it. You guys really know how to put the support in support group.

 

This is not a support group, it's a message board. Everyone is free to post their honest opinions.

[Girlfromcali]

Actually it does say "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" on top of page.

[ChickiePops]

Actually it does say "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" on top of page.

 

Yup. Support and DISCUSSION. Meaning everyone is free to post their opinions.

[13Hearts]

Just ignore the posts that are not helpful.

 

I started a different reply but somehow lost it. Hope this isn't a duplicate.

 

Anyway, I was saying that there's nothing special about the two of you together; we've all experienced it and report it here. Affairs are intense and the feelings for some reason run really high in them. These guys experience those feelings differently because they're, well, guys. They're not as accustomed to them as we women are. And they don't know as well as we do what to do with or about them. They think that because they're feeling something so intensely, it must MEAN something. It doesn't. They're just feelings.

 

Your MM is a very confused individual. And it seems you are, like most of us have been, rather obsessed with him. It's what affairs do. You've gotten into some obsessive habits with him, like probably texting too much and addicted to the sexting. You just need to reassimilate yourself back into normal, non-affair life. It'll take a while, just give it time. It's best to go no contact. He's confused, really, and it's best if you release him back to his wife and marriage where he belongs. Don't let him destroy himself and his life. But most of all, don't let him waste any more of your time.

[Girlfromcali]

Just ignore the posts that are not helpful.

 

I started a different reply but somehow lost it. Hope this isn't a duplicate.

 

Anyway, I was saying that there's nothing special about the two of you together; we've all experienced it and report it here. Affairs are intense and the feelings for some reason run really high in them. These guys experience those feelings differently because they're, well, guys. They're not as accustomed to them as we women are. And they don't know as well as we do what to do with or about them. They think that because they're feeling something so intensely, it must MEAN something. It doesn't. They're just feelings.

 

Your MM is a very confused individual. And it seems you are, like most of us have been, rather obsessed with him. It's what affairs do. You've gotten into some obsessive habits with him, like probably texting too much and addicted to the sexting. You just need to reassimilate yourself back into normal, non-affair life. It'll take a while, just give it time. It's best to go no contact. He's confused, really, and it's best if you release him back to his wife and marriage where he belongs. Don't let him destroy himself and his life. But most of all, don't let him waste any more of your time.

 

It's very hard to get back to normal, especially if you're used to texting with someone all day.

It's like "what am I gonna do now?" It's a huge void. I have started doing a lot of things that I enjoy and give me meaning, and mostly I'm happy.

 

However, there's still the void...like something's missing. It's weird but I've never experienced so deeply that something is missing from my life.

And the weirdest thing about it is that the thing that's missing, I never really even had. Weird weird...

[ShamanLover]

Just ignore the posts that are not helpful.

 

Thanks, @13Hearts. Actually, I’m all for constructive feedback, trust me. I think it’s pretty evident from the degree of my transparency in my posts that I am more interested in authenticity than painting myself in a positive light. But this is not “tough love” intended to help - it is mean-spirited and hurtful. I understand that this board is occasionally visited by others (betrayed spouses, reformed ex-cheaters, etc.) that are genuinely interested in learning about what we are going through in an effort to make more sense out of their own situation. I, too, have spent time reading over on the Infidelity board, for similar reasons. But I can’t for the life of me think of a scenario where I would think it was okay to comment over there in a similar vein. What would that even look like?! “Dunno, it seems to me that if the OP had only been a little less frigid in the bedroom, maybe her man wouldn’t have come crawling to me for some strange. Just sayin’!’’ Uh… no. So why is it okay over here? We are all in this together, muddling through, healing our wounds, trying to learn and grow.

 

You make some really interesting points. I think I, too, am only now feeling my way around the edges of this whole emotions-don't-necessarily-mean-anything concept. I have always been a follow-your-heart kinda gal. But it doesn't necessarily pass the "utility test" (I can hear Dr. Phil now... "How's that workin' for ya?"), so I am open to revisiting.

 

Yes, MM is indeed confused. As am I. This has easily been the most confusing experience of my life. And we are indeed NC, and I fully intend on keeping it that way.

[Girlfromcali]

Maybe this should be in the other thread about MM/W mindset but it's closed...but I was thinking 13hearts mentioned that guys experience things differently.

The weird thing when we broke up with MM was that he changed physically. I mean, a lot..he started partying, didn't take care of himself etc. that was really out of character for him.

 

He never said it was because of the break up so I have no "proof" but it was just very weird timing that he stopped doing what he had literally done his whole life for months.

 

Also, when I did talk to him, he said that he doesn't feel like doing anything, and that the things he used to enjoy don't bring any pleasure anymore. Again...he didn't say it was because of me, so I don't know why..but I felt the same way.

 

Anyway, I'm not so sure if the term that men come out of affairs unscathed is really accurate. Maybe they do or maybe they just don't show it.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Girlfromcali

[lftbehind]

I liked the fact that my OW was disagreeable and thus, at least for me, unlikeable.

 

I noticed that about her from the beginning and it was one reason I chose her to have the affair with.

 

I was not looking to leave my wife.

 

Why would you be interested in an OW that you thought was unlikeable? That's not fair and unkind to her. I'm sure that she thought that liked her or she would not have wanted to have an affair with you.

[Cymbeline]

Maybe this should be in the other thread about MM/W mindset but it's closed...but I was thinking 13hearts mentioned that guys experience things differently.

The weird thing when we broke up with MM was that he changed physically. I mean, a lot..he started partying, didn't take care of himself etc. that was really out of character for him.

 

He never said it was because of the break up so I have no "proof" but it was just very weird timing that he stopped doing what he had literally done his whole life for months.

 

Also, when I did talk to him, he said that he doesn't feel like doing anything, and that the things he used to enjoy don't bring any pleasure anymore. Again...he didn't say it was because of me, so I don't know why..but I felt the same way.

 

Anyway, I'm not so sure if the term that men come out of affairs unscathed is really accurate. Maybe they do or maybe they just don't show it.

 

We don't pay sufficient care to our own mental health and we overestimate the health of others. What you describe happened in my WH and for him it was a manifestation of depression.

 

Here's some interesting work by Terence Real, a Harvard prof, on depression in men. It manifests differently in them and is misunderstood. Hence why uicidenrates are so much higher in males than females.

 

He talks about women turning in and internalising while men externalise distress and act out. The stimulation of the 'aliveness' drives away the numbness and distress. As 13 Hearts says, this may be confused with lasting happiness or love.

 

Women are socialised for humility - we share shame and benefit from support. Men are highly sensitive to shame and cannot express it and so never gain support. Women feel fear in a way that men don't and can't understand.

 

My WH became immersed in a number of distraction activities after his affair was over. I recognised that and thought our evening out, lasting until 4 am were an attempt to be young again ( though he was never up for being out that late when we actually were young). He ate a lot of chocolate (some of the nutrients mimic feel good hormones and bring comfort). He did healthy things as well and gave up smoking which he had taken up with a frequency I was unhappy with during the affair.

 

It went on longer Than I felt it should but I eventually found out that he was unable to completely stop email contact with his AP ( who was in the office anyway). It was an addictive kind of contact. The content of the emails was, to me, very odd. Childish. He would get snappy with me when they occurred. It took him some time and I think a lot of work on himself to take a hold of himself and stop.

 

I feel and I believe he does too, that the apparent change in character and personality was down to the Sparks he felt which drove his existential ennui away. When the AP wanted more and he got in deeper I suppose this changed to further stress, but by then he though the intensity must mean love, although he recognised the irrationality of it all and of his choice of AP.

 

The difficult work of facing oneself in the aftermath of DDay does nothing to dissipate any depression so weird behaviour can, I think, persist for some time, until help is sought in some way.

 

so 13 Hearts is dead right imo, when she says they are confused. Too much analysis is a waste of energy. Quite a lot of these seemingly normal men are in a psychological mess. It has something to to with he modern world. Post industrial capitalism isn't working for too many of us.

[Got it]

Actually it does say "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" on top of page.

 

Trust me, I have been here a long time and the above has been ignored since I first came here. Some have almost an agenda to demonize all who come here for support. It was extremely vicious some years back. Luckily those lovely people were asked not to come back to LS.

 

Support can be hard to see at times. Luckily there are a few posters who are able to see it and offer it regardless of what side of the aisle they are on.

[Furious]

LOL, my MM told me I most disagreeable and difficult as an OW.

 

Maybe being an awful OW is the recipe for a lasting relationship?

 

I'm confused, and correct if I'm wrong but wasn't your husband a betrayed spouse who had decided to stay with his wife only until his children were off to college. Timing seems to be the key factor, and being an "awful OW" seems by your comment to insinuate something that may be construed as misleading to those who don't end up with their MM.

 

Context is important, it gives a clearer picture on the circumstance and perhaps if a MM has planned to leave his marriage in due time has little to do with being an "awful OW", and sometimes being the OW at the right time that best suits the MM's circumstance.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Furious

[WasOtherWoman]

I'm confused, and correct if I'm wrong but wasn't your husband a betrayed spouse who had decided to stay with his wife only until his children were off to college. Timing seems to be the key factor, and being an "awful OW" seems by your comment to insinuate something that may be construed as misleading to those who don't end up with their MM.

 

Context is important, it gives a clearer picture on the circumstance and perhaps if a MM has planned to leave his marriage in due time has little to do with being an "awful OW", and sometimes being the OW at the right time that best suits the MM's circumstance.

 

Yes the above first paragraph is true. But let's face it, my MM could easily have fallen into being the "typical" MM and allow me to be the bandaid on his long-term marriage, no? Meeting and falling in love with me could have worked the opposite. Allowed him to continue living a separate life from his wife, and having me, AND having his money, his comfort, etc. While i know NOW that he is not the type of man who lets things happen, rather than making things happen, what did I know back then? Who knew if he was even telling the truth???

 

While I do have a pretty high opinion of myself and I do bring a lot to the table, it was always in the back of my mind that "MM don't leave". All my friends told me I was a fool, etc. So, while I was seriously in love with this man (still am) I was not about to allow him to get comfortable having a wife and a girlfriend (hence the disagreeable part). Heck if i was going to wind up being a band-aid on his marriage.

 

As for the rest of the OW's, if they are an OW that wants their partner full time (and make no mistake, I was playing for keeps with my MM.... I could not have been less interested in being an OW) it, and this is simply my opinion. is a huge mistake in strategy to be the willing, compliant, i will see you when it is convenient for you, etc., type of OW. If he was man-enough to step out of his marriage and have an affair with me, then he'd damn well better be man-enough to keep me happy. In my case, happy for me was him becoming single.

 

So, my advice to OW's that want their man full time will always be, don't be so agreeable. Make him work for it. Don't accept less than you want. Don't allow him to make excuses, in fact, every time he says the word "can't" substitute it for the word "won't". Because that is exactly what he is saying.

 

So yes, my circumstance might have been a bit different than others here, but this is all hindsight, right? I will tell you that my affair would have been a hell of a lot shorter had I set my boundaries as I did and he wasn't leaving.

 

So maybe my wording was bad... in my case being "disagreeable" simply meant setting my boundaries and accepting nothing less.

[Liam1]

Do you think a MM is capable of maintaining the A romance and fantasy for 7 years?

 

Poppy.

 

It depends on how often the two see each other. Also it depends on how demanding the OW is. If she is not demanding, it allows the MM to keep the fantasy going longer, IMO. But that is just my opinion. I can not speak for everyone.

 

Personally, from my perspective, I could only imagine falling in love with an OW, If I was not in love with my wife.

 

Sex and true love are really two totally different things to me.

[Liam1]

Wow. Tough crowd. One poster chastises me for callously underestimating the sincerity of my MM’s feelings, and another derides me for grandiosely overestimating it. You guys really know how to put the support in support group.

 

Shamanlover:

 

Some times the REAL support comes from those who are willing to paint a true picture of a situation.

 

Support does not always come in the form of sugar coating or agreeing.

[Liam1]

Why would you be interested in an OW that you thought was unlikeable? That's not fair and unkind to her. I'm sure that she thought that liked her or she would not have wanted to have an affair with you.

 

My FOW, initiated the affair. She had already had many affairs prior. She said she was not in love with her husband because she did not think he was attractive, but would never leave him because of the lifestyle he provided.

 

I liked that aspect of her because I was only looking for a sexual affair to fill a deficit in my marriage. I still loved my wife and had no plans to leave.

 

The FOW claimed she was only looking for an affair and would never leave her husband. It seemed perfect, at least until she wanted more.

 

I did not want someone I liked or who was looking for a real relationship because then to me that would be unfair to the person. I was not for a real relationship. I was looking for an affair.

 

My FOW was a much more demanding person than my wife, in all aspects of life. I did not give in to her demands because if she broke things off, I would be okay with that, but the fact that she was so demanding was definitely something I found unlikable about her.

 

Her husband on the other hand always gave into her demands but she had absolutely no respect for him.

 

So, my point is that although the FOW was likeable enough, she was not someone I would choose to marry.

[loveisanaction]

Shamanlover:

 

 

Some times the REAL support comes from those who are willing to paint a true picture of a situation.

 

Support does not always come in the form of sugar coating or agreeing.

 

I 100% agree with this. I do not sugar coat nor hand hold a person who is doing something wrong.

 

I see a lot of people posting threads asking for non-negative comments; to me those are the people who do not want to hear the truth.

 

There is a way that you can give advice without demeaning the poster but posters who are clearly doing something immorally wrong need to be told the truth even if the truth sounds a little harsh.

[ShamanLover]

Thanks, @Liam1, I know that... but it often comes down to the intention behind the post, as opposed to whether it's objectively "positive" or "negative". That's what I was on about in post #64

 

@WasOtherWoman I find this so interesting! I have a very close friend who has a don't-ask-don't-tell arrangement with his wife. When I was in the thick of the affair and struggling to find my equilibrium, he was always trying to get me to see that I was the one in the power position, not MM. People always talk of the power dynamic swinging the other way in a SOW-MM relationship, but in retrospect I totally see where he (and you) are coming from. It really is about "what's in it for me?" as a single woman with lots of other prospects - why would I put myself in this position unless there is a significant upside for me? Now, what that "upside" is varies from individual to individual. In other cultures where being a mistress is more widespread and codified, it's often material gain (a nice apartment, clothes, jewels, being taken on vacation to beautiful places, money to get through school or the like...). For me, it was about sexual adventure and exploration and, at the beginning, he was very good about indulging that (making audio recordings, videos, playing out fantasy scenarios, etc.. he really did facilitate a complete sexual awakening for me.). But as feelings became involved, he became less interested in that and more interested in "conventional" play. One of our sexting games was a variant on "would you rather...?" and voyeurism, exhibitionism and inviting others to join in were common themes in our fantasy life. Towards the end I asked him over text if he would rather watch me (insert expletive of choice here) another man, or have me watch him with another woman. His response was that he didn't know what the hell was wrong with him, but that he couldn't answer that question with any conviction because he just wanted to be with ME so goddamned much right now. It was really interesting - as our sex started to feel more like "making love", it started to undermine all of the reasons we had entered the affair in the first place. Feelings change everything. And, I've said this before, but that seems to be the most confounding aspect of affairs... the (what would be considered to be in a normal relationship) "better" things get, the more it accelerates their demise.

Edited May 20, 2016 by ShamanLover