It's all fun and games until someone gets eviscerated

[imperfectangel]

I'll hold my hands up for a good few years I thought like lila Jane. But I was young (my affair is long term) and naive. I could control my feelings back then. I accepted my situation as it was, the past few years I've developed into wanting more.

 

Chances are it'll happene to you too lila Jane at some point. at the end of the day if two people really want to be with each other they will make it happen

[ChickiePops]

I'll hold my hands up for a good few years I thought like lila Jane. But I was young (my affair is long term) and naive. I could control my feelings back then. I accepted my situation as it was, the past few years I've developed into wanting more.

 

Chances are it'll happene to you too lila Jane at some point. at the end of the day if two people really want to be with each other they will make it happen

 

I remember reading your threads when you first showed up here..I lurked for a long time before I started posting. You've clearly grown and changed a lot since then and you should be proud of that. You're obviously open to it so you'll keep growing and changing..and eventually you'll be strong enough to step away for good.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

[imperfectangel]

I remember reading your threads when you first showed up here..I lurked for a long time before I started posting. You've clearly grown and changed a lot since then and you should be proud of that. You're obviously open to it so you'll keep growing and changing..and eventually you'll be strong enough to step away for good.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

 

Thanks. We're loose contact now. He keeps trying to see me. I keep putting it off. He can't give me want I want. End of. He hints at it sure, but I don't think he has the guts to actually go through with it. I don't feel like I want to see him ATM but for some reason I just can't cut the cord

[sophinla]

No one is hurt. Actually, we are happier in our family lives, more gracious and more accepting. MM tells his wife all the time that it's fine that she can't be intimate with him anymore and he means it. We are less stressed and more patient with our children. His wife is confined to a bed most days. My husband could give two ****s where I go. Our teens are happy when we are gone. Is it THAT hard to believe that this could actually be having a POSITIVE impact on everyone involved? They are never going to know. No hurt. Just stop with the cliches. Not everyone buys into the impossible sacred marriage theme. If my husband is out there messing around, I don't want to know about it. Good for him. Wtf cares?

 

My childhood wasn't crappy. Not at all. damn.

 

If you are happy in your affair, and no one is hurting, I say good for you! To each his/her own!

 

But to dismiss affairs hurting BS as cliches, you're kidding right? Have you been to the infidelity forums and see the pain and sorrow of betrayed wives, families, even husbands?

Edited May 21, 2016 by sophinla

[SomethingToSay]

They are never going to know.

 

This is a very interesting thread. So much mental gymnastics and denial and entitlement going on. And for the record I am not a BS or former OW. Is it so hard to imagine a person could have the opinion that 1) Men dont dump women they are madly in love with; and 2) Affairs are never justified as they cause immeasurable devastation to the betrayed, without said opinion stemmimg from bias or triggers or agenda? To me its just common sense vs mental gymnastics.

[Gert]

My husband cheated on me with an OW for several years. When I found out it was the most painful thing I have ever experienced.

 

It was no consolation to me that he (supposedly) loved me more, because when I got to read their emails and messages it was obvious he was head over heels with her.

 

I imagine that from her perspective it wasn't much of a consolation either to know that he loved her, when he stayed with me.

 

I think he just told us both whatever came into his head to make us both think we were loved, when really it was all about him.

 

Affairs (well the typical ones anyway) are horrible and disgusting in my opinion because of the emotional and psychological abuse, generally of the betrayed spouse, but often also the "other".

 

Just to keep on topic, it was all fun and games for them until I was the one eviscerated.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Gert

[SomethingToSay]

Now ^that^ s a best post ever.

[DevastatedDiva]

My husband cheated on me with an OW for several years. When I found out it was the most painful thing I have ever experienced.

 

It was no consolation to me that he (supposedly) loved me more, because when I got to read their emails and messages it was obvious he was head over heels with her.

 

I imagine that from her perspective it wasn't much of a consolation either to know that he loved her, when he stayed with me.

 

I think he just told us both whatever came into his head to make us both think we were loved, when really it was all about him.

 

Affairs (well the typical ones anyway) are horrible and disgusting in my opinion because of the emotional and psychological abuse, generally of the betrayed spouse, but often also the "other".

 

Just to keep on topic, it was all fun and games for them until I was the one eviscerated.

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you, and that you not only were betrayed but also that your WH was "head over heels in love" with another woman for several years.

 

You were absolutely eviscerated. There's no way that I'd allow my marriage to survive that.

 

Hug xx

[lemondrop21]

 

I never wanted to share this story, i wanted to never think about it again for the rest of my life but i will..maybe it will help somebody.

 

My best friend was in the hospital for 3 months. She was the other woman to a married man for 3 years. The married man's wife stalked my best friend and one evening followed her home, she attacked my best friend with a butcher knife which caused her to be in the hospital for 3 months. When my best friend had told me she was having an affair with a married man i asked her to walk away, when she didn't we got into a big fight and our friendship ended...10 years of friendship down the drain. We were still on non-speaking terms when i visited her in the hospital every weekend. This was a year ago. Today she is out of the hospital with 4 ugly scars on her face (my best friend looks like Aishwarya Rai..well she used to). We are best friends again. Everyday i see the pain in her eyes, she apologizes with them all the time and it breaks my heart.

 

The betrayed wife got off on a misdemeanor with clinical counselling, she had just had a miscarriage when she attacked my best friend; her lawyer got her off on postnatal depression.

 

I have no words, just... wow.

[Girlfromcali]

No one is hurt. Actually, we are happier in our family lives, more gracious and more accepting. MM tells his wife all the time that it's fine that she can't be intimate with him anymore and he means it. We are less stressed and more patient with our children. His wife is confined to a bed most days. My husband could give two ****s where I go. Our teens are happy when we are gone. Is it THAT hard to believe that this could actually be having a POSITIVE impact on everyone involved? They are never going to know. No hurt. Just stop with the cliches. Not everyone buys into the impossible sacred marriage theme. If my husband is out there messing around, I don't want to know about it. Good for him. Wtf cares?

 

My childhood wasn't crappy. Not at all. damn.

 

 

My MM told me a few days ago that his W told him that she wants him to get a young girl. She thinks he's bored with her sexually and wants him to have a side woman.

 

I always wondered why she didn't seem to be upset about the A.

 

I've always felt love for his W because I feel I can't "love" someone and say I don't love the person's whole family and people he loves.

 

Anyway, now I feel I hate both of them and want nothing more than forget the whole thing, and wish I'd never met him.

 

I just wish so deeply I could somehow erase the memory out of my brain. But then I guess I wouldn't know not to do it again.

[Girlfromcali]

I keep thinking what else could happen to cause me more pain. It seems there's endless sources of undiscovered sources of pain. What is worse than eviscerated?

 

Well, breaking NC and torturing myself seem to be the things I do best. I will put them in my resume. What kind of job can I get with those qualifications?

My strong points are: breaking NC and aqcuiring more pain. Hobbies include emotional masochism and hating myself and my life.

 

Who made me this woman?

[imperfectangel]

I keep thinking what else could happen to cause me more pain. It seems there's endless sources of undiscovered sources of pain. What is worse than eviscerated?

 

Well, breaking NC and torturing myself seem to be the things I do best. I will put them in my resume. What kind of job can I get with those qualifications?

My strong points are: breaking NC and aqcuiring more pain. Hobbies include emotional masochism and hating myself and my life.

 

Who made me this woman?

 

 

 

In short MM.

 

The past few days I've been realising how much the A has changed me. I no longer believe in marriage or a "happy ever after" for anyone, including myself. I can't ever imagine myself in a long term relationship again since so many people have no issue with being unfaithful I do not want to expose myself to that.

 

A's are horrible. Yes the BS may hurt for years after but so too will the OW. Just because we don't have a ring and a bit of paper does not lesson what we're going through whether others like to recognise it or not

[Girlfromcali]

In short MM.

 

The past few days I've been realising how much the A has changed me. I no longer believe in marriage or a "happy ever after" for anyone, including myself. I can't ever imagine myself in a long term relationship again since so many people have no issue with being unfaithful I do not want to expose myself to that.

 

A's are horrible. Yes the BS may hurt for years after but so too will the OW. Just because we don't have a ring and a bit of paper does not lesson what we're going through whether others like to recognise it or not

 

I don't think that way because I know there are people out there who don't cheat my own H included.

 

Technically, even my MM is not a cheater since he's never been with anyone else except me and her. Well, now he is a cheater but he was a non cheater almost forty years. Who the heck can be faithful for so many years? A part of me thinks he should go out there and have sex with as many twenty year olds as he still can. And he has his W's blessing so more power to him.

[ShamanLover]

This is a very interesting thread. So much mental gymnastics and denial and entitlement going on. And for the record I am not a BS or former OW. Is it so hard to imagine a person could have the opinion that 1) Men dont dump women they are madly in love with; and 2) Affairs are never justified as they cause immeasurable devastation to the betrayed, without said opinion stemmimg from bias or triggers or agenda? To me its just common sense vs mental gymnastics.

 

At the risk of being accused of defensiveness, I do feel the need to clarify my position. I never said he was “madly in love” with me, just as I wasn’t with him. How can you even get there without road-testing a relationship in the "real world”?

 

My whole inquiry was about whether or not I could take him at face value for the reasons he gave me for cutting bait, because the cynicism on this site was making me second guess that. If I project myself into his shoes, I can ABSOLUTELY imagine a scenario where I was the married one feeling a void in my relationship and getting involved with someone else for fun/adventure/variety/ego hit/whatever. I can also see then discovering that the connection with that person was greater than I anticipated. I can understand how it might, in the short term, make me a better spouse, as the "frustration, resentment and disappointment” in the reality of married life (his words) are temporarily allayed because my needs are getting met elsewhere. I can further see how, as the bond with the other person starts to grow, it could reach a tipping point where it started to damage my marriage instead of help it. Where worlds started to collide and I started wanting to be with them more than be at home, fantasizing about my lover while I was having sex with my spouse, comparing the two (however unfairly) and contemplating what life would be life had I taken a different road. Raising suspicion and concern on my spouse’s part and seeing the reality of the potential heartbreak in their eyes, and it all becoming way too real...

 

And before I am accused yet again of “projecting thoughts and feelings” onto MM, these are all things he shared with me.

 

I can then imagine a mighty internal battle ensuing, and a difficult choice to be made, and coming down on the side of the sure thing, even if it feels mediocre at the time, over taking a chance on something new that could prove to be better, but could just as easily prove to end up being the same, or even worse, once the infatuation period passes. My IC, also a marriage counsellor, says that, in her clinical experience, men in particular will choose security over passion every time.

 

I don’t see how any of this is incompatible with the possibility that he has strong, deep, genuine feelings for both women. There is no doubt in my mind that it is possible to be in love with two people at the same time, because I have lived it (another story for another time, perhaps).

 

As far as Lila Jane’s post about her situation is concerned, I loved that post - and Gert’s - because they were so fearlessly and articulately speaking their truth and using that as an expository tool, which I find much more effective and impactful than sermonizing.

 

For the record, my personal philosophical view on relationships is probably closest to the one articulated by Dan Savage, where he advocates being “monogamish”, but only with the full awareness and buy-in of both parties (there's a brief introductory clip here if you’re interested:

).

 

Gratitude to everyone involved for this enlightening and spirited dialogue.

 

I have felt a real, if subtle, seismic shift in my internal landscape in recent days. I feel the void even more keenly in some ways, but it is no longer a MM-shaped hole so much as a more generalized sense of the emptiness and ennui left in its wake. My mantra at the moment is Pema Chodron’s “Feel the feelings and drop the story”. For those of you who find bibliotherapy helpful, I can’t recommend her book, When Things Fall Apart highly enough...

 

To @Girlfromcali, @imperfectangel and all of my sisters (and brothers) who are suffering today, sending out love and light and a massive ((((group)))).

[ChickiePops]

If this is what you believe and this is what helps you move on then I'm glad you've reached this point.

[ShamanLover]

If this is what you believe and this is what helps you move on then I'm glad you've reached this point.

 

I appreciate that @ChickiePops. You still sound dubious

 

Can you please give me one reason why, given the choice between believing what I am told and doubting its veracity, you feel I should default to the latter?

 

Have you heard of Occam’s Razor? It posits that the simplest explanation - the one that involves the fewest assumptions - is almost always the correct one. I think it’s a painful way to go through life always assuming the worst, and I am genuinely curious about what has led you to make that choice.

[ChickiePops]

I appreciate that @ChickiePops. You still sound dubious

 

Can you please give me one reason why, given the choice between believing what I am told and doubting its veracity, you feel I should default to the latter?

 

Have you heard of Occam’s Razor? It posits that the simplest explanation - the one that involves the fewest assumptions - is almost always the correct one. I think it’s a painful way to go through life always assuming the worst, and I am genuinely curious about what has led you to make that choice.

 

Like I said, you should choose to believe whatever helps you move on. Why should my opinion matter to you so much?

[Girlfromcali]

All I know I am a profoundly unhappy person. I was unhappy before the A, and apparently continue to be unhappy.

 

One thing that's a fact is that an A is not going to make anyone happier no matter how you analyze it. It's like saying "start doing heroin, it will make you happy" when the fundamental reasons why you need heroin to medicate yourself in the first place are not being dealt with.

 

My dad was in AA his whole life. I wonder what kind of person dedicates his whole life obsessing about his addiction. I feel like that when I'm reading these stories here, reliving the pain through other people and obsessing about some stupid addiction that causes nothing but misery.

 

I feel like being a bit overly dramatic right now so I apologize.

[SomethingToSay]

Occams Razor. You had a NSA agreement. You caught feelings. He ended it. 6 mo later he resumed with texting/sexting then met you saying he hoped you two could resume the NSA but during the course of the meeting it became clear to him you couldnt.

 

To me the least assumptive scenario is he saw you were still in love with him so he changed his mind. Or maybe it was guilt or any number of other things. But i tend to think low on that list would be fear of falling into depression over how mundane and inadequate his wife/M is. I mean he already knows this presumably? Its not like he doesn't have the memories regardless of whether he continues it.

 

But thats just my impression and all that matters is yours. Ultimately you just have to move in which takes time.

[cocorico]

I have no words, just... wow.

 

Agree - miscarriage of justice.

[Liam1]

A

 

 

I don’t see how any of this is incompatible with the possibility that he has strong, deep, genuine feelings for both women. There is no doubt in my mind that it is possible to be in love with two people at the same time, because I have lived it (another story for another time, perhaps).

 

 

I am just curious about why it is so important for you to have reinforcement for this belief.

 

As others have mentioned at this point there is simply no way of knowing what was or is going on in his mind.

 

He broke it off, and it is over. There is no way of knowing if anything he is saying to you about why is true or false. And, in the end, it does not matter, unless he decides to continue the relationship.

 

IMO, persisting in this rumination will only prolong your pain. I am saying this not as a way to deliver "tough love" but simply to point out the reality of the futility of this rumination.

 

Affairs cause a lot of pain and hurt in all directions. You are obviously wounded by his ending the affair. Believe me my FOW wanted more, and I did feel badly about hurting her.

 

As Shirley Glass says: An affair is like a very bad car wreck. Everyone crawls away from the wreckage injured and bleeding in some way.

 

As for your counselor stating that all men will choose "security over passion" How can she be certain that it was ONLY security that caused all these men to end the affair.

 

Passion in ALL relationships eventually fizzles out. The average in a real relationship, not an affair, is three years.

 

After that there has to be more than passion holding the two together, or the relationship ends.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Liam1

[SomethingToSay]

Adding on to Liams post, rather than focusing on MM motives and feelings (which is futile), focus on why you so desparately need the reasons he ended it to be A vs B. So much so you have wrote pages and pages recounting things he said and did, posted on here, and generally rumicated ad nauseum to convince yourself he quit bc the connection was just too amazing for him to handle. (or something like that)

 

Why is the reason behind it so crucial? Thats where your introspection should lie.

 

In any relationship we can never know for certain if a persons feelings are genuine to what they say. But in affairs this is even moreso true, due to the baseline capacity for deceipt and selfishness that the MP has already demonstrated by simply engaging in the A to begin with.