Why can't we express feelings?

[preraph]

Expressing true feelings once you've already been told no is disrespectful.

 

The problem with the "grateful for any morsel" attitude from either men or women is it is the lowest, most desperate position anyone can take. It shows a complete lack of standards. It gives away affection to someone without requiring so much as minimal respect, much less mutual interest. It is never attractive to anyone because it is such a low standard that no one can respect you as a person much less be attracted to you romantically.

 

And on the flip side, it is also disrespectful to the object of affection because it's all done very sneakily. The crush says no to romantic overtures, so then the "grateful" person pretends to only be friends, keeps their feelings under lock and key, and begin gaining trust from the crush that they don't deserve. And they hold it in until something triggers an undeniable view of reality for them, like the crush gets a new bf or gf, and then they're incredulous and can't understand what happened, because doesn't all this lurking about count for something? Is this not relationship building? Then they lose their composure and either confess in desperation or skulk off angrily and tell everyone this evil man/woman broke their heart after "leading them on."

[Got it]

Well, there's a whole lot of middle ground between butterflies and "yeah, you're cool."

 

I figured the later is what tickles your fancy. No?

[Got it]

Intellectually I KNOW you are absolutely right. Of course men have feelings, they're human after all.

 

But emotionally, I dunno I know it's wrong, but when I see (read) men emoting all over the place, especially on this board cuz I don't see it much on the outside, my first thought is.... ugh!!

 

What are you doing? You're not supposed to have feelings, you're not supposed to get upset or be confused or whine or cry, want to die, feel gutted etc. when a woman breaks it off with you. Man up! Grow a pair why don't ya!

 

You are supposed to let it all roll off cuz you're a MAN. Strong, tough, resilient.

 

You are supposed to be tough, strong and take care of things. You are supposed to comfort me when I cry and am upset!!

 

THIS is how I was raised, what I was raised to believe a "real' man was, cuz of my dad and my five brothers. Dad always took care of things, comforted me when I was upset and cried.... because some boy broke my heart. Or whatever.

 

So now as an adult women, I carry these same notions into my life and RLs.

 

All my bfs have been super strong, tough, resilient. Even though I am extremely independent, they were my rock when I needed them to be.

 

Now I realize that wasn't fair. I know for a fact my recent ex (the one who turned to drugs) was very sensitive but he grew up with a dad like mine and learned he needed to suppress his emotions.

 

I rarely saw him hurt over anything. Angry and pissed at various things yes (god yes) but he never expressed hurt or emotional pain. Even when I hurt him sometimes, which I KNOW I did, he was always very self-contained.

 

I was attracted to that! I saw it as strength, even though maybe now I realize it wasn't. I dunno.

 

I think now this is why he turned to alcohol and drugs. Because he wasn't allowed to express his deepest fears and emotions.

 

Subconsciously I guess I didn't allow it, but even if I did, I don't think he would have felt comfortable with it anyway.... cuz it was not how he was raised.

 

He was raised to be strong and tough, resilient and self-contained (like my dad!).

 

Anyhoo like I said, I know I am wrong for feeling this way.....not sure how to shake it though as this is what has been instilled in me from ever since I can remember.

 

Acknowledging it is the first thing. Understanding you are trying to find your dad in the men you date. And then you decide if you want to change that or not. There are some major issues with people who disassociate from their emotions, who can't express them, who repress them. It usually comes out in anger as anger is the one emotion most are comfortable with.

 

To each their own but having had a father who repressed/es his emotions so has never handled, even at 60 something, childhood issues the last thing I want is a male partner who does the same. It is a sad thing to see someone still dealing with issues from their childhood who is now a grandfather, who's abandonment issues come out in his relationships, his volatile temper and complete disassociation from his emotions - to where he struggles to express love for anyone. Seeing such obvious patterns, rinse and repeat is just so frustrating and ridiculously pathetic.

 

So I like a man who actually knows why he feels like he does, is comfortable with his emotions, doesn't feel shame (which is a whole other host of issues), and can communicate them.

 

You know, a healthy mature adult.

 

While I think the current landscape is a sad one where so many men feel lost and unheard, I think the ability to actually express their feelings a good thing.

 

I think these stats are truly horrific. https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

 

There is an epidemic of male depression.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Got it

[NTV]

 

I think these stats are truly horrific. https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

 

There is an epidemic of male depression.

 

 

 

After reading those statistics, I'm depressed now too. Thanks a lot.

[katiegrl]

Acknowledging it is the first thing. Understanding you are trying to find your dad in the men you date. And then you decide if you want to change that or not. There are some major issues with people who disassociate from their emotions, who can't express them, who repress them. It usually comes out in anger as anger is the one emotion most are comfortable with.

 

To each their own but having had a father who repressed/es his emotions so has never handled, even at 60 something, childhood issues the last thing I want is a male partner who does the same. It is a sad thing to see someone still dealing with issues from their childhood who is now a grandfather, who's abandonment issues come out in his relationships, his volatile temper and complete disassociation from his emotions - to where he struggles to express love for anyone. Seeing such obvious patterns, rinse and repeat is just so frustrating and ridiculously pathetic.

 

So I like a man who actually knows why he feels like he does, is comfortable with his emotions, doesn't feel shame (which is a whole other host of issues), and can communicate them.

 

You know, a healthy mature adult.

 

While I think the current landscape is a sad one where so many men feel lost and unheard, I think the ability to actually express their feelings a good thing.

 

I think these stats are truly horrific. https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

 

There is an epidemic of male depression.

 

Thanks but perhaps you missed this post of mine (below). My dad did not (nor any of my boyfriends) repress their emotions.

 

They contained them (self-contained). Like I said below, they didn't feel it was their place to emote their emotions all over everyone and burden them with them. They dealt with issues on their own.

 

I happen to respect that in a person and frankly I am the same way myself.

 

I feel insecure, I feel anxious, etc. I deal with it! I don't burden others (especially my boyfriends) with it.

 

Also self-containing DOES NOT mean repressing or never expressing an emotion, geez.

 

My dad told us he loved us, just NOT ad nausem. My boyfriends the same.

 

Showed us how much he loved us via his ACTIONS.

 

Again (like I say below) actions speak to me WAY more than words ever could.

 

I think you may have misunderstood.

 

My dad was tough, resilient and self-contained, yes.

 

But he had very deep feelings, he just didn't feel it was his place to burden others with them. He contained them within himself.

 

He was also extremely warm and caring, which he showed us through his actions.

 

Not stone cold at all!!! Hardly.

 

That is why I am not big on flowery hallmark type of lovey dovey sweet talk.

 

In fact I find it a turn off......to me it seems contrived.

 

I judge how a man feels by his actions, I talk about this on this board all the time.

 

Because that is how my dad, and my brothers express their love, thorough action rather than words. It how I was raised.

 

I trust action more than words, in fact words don't mean much to me at all.

 

Just me though, many women go for that stuff. Not all though, you will have to judge each woman for yourself before you start pouring your heart out. :)

[Imajerk17]

Intellectually I KNOW you are absolutely right. Of course men have feelings, they're human after all.

 

But emotionally, I dunno I know it's wrong, but when I see (read) men emoting all over the place, especially on this board cuz I don't see it much on the outside, my first thought is.... ugh!!

 

What are you doing? You're not supposed to have feelings, you're not supposed to get upset or be confused or whine or cry, want to die, feel gutted etc. when a woman breaks it off with you. Man up! Grow a pair why don't ya!

 

You are supposed to let it all roll off cuz you're a MAN. Strong, tough, resilient.

 

You are supposed to be tough, strong and take care of things. You are supposed to comfort me when I cry and am upset!!

 

THIS is how I was raised, what I was raised to believe a "real' man was, cuz of my dad and my five brothers. Dad always took care of things, comforted me when I was upset and cried.... because some boy broke my heart. Or whatever.

 

So now as an adult women, I carry these same notions into my life and RLs.

 

All my bfs have been super strong, tough, resilient. Even though I am extremely independent, they were my rock when I needed them to be.

 

Now I realize that wasn't fair. I know for a fact my recent ex (the one who turned to drugs) was very sensitive but he grew up with a dad like mine and learned he needed to suppress his emotions.

 

I rarely saw him hurt over anything. Angry and pissed at various things yes (god yes) but he never expressed hurt or emotional pain. Even when I hurt him sometimes, which I KNOW I did, he was always very self-contained.

 

I was attracted to that! I saw it as strength, even though maybe now I realize it wasn't. I dunno.

 

I think now this is why he turned to alcohol and drugs. Because he wasn't allowed to express his deepest fears and emotions.

 

Subconsciously I guess I didn't allow it, but even if I did, I don't think he would have felt comfortable with it anyway.... cuz it was not how he was raised.

 

He was raised to be strong and tough, resilient and self-contained (like my dad!).

 

Anyhoo like I said, I know I am wrong for feeling this way.....not sure how to shake it though as this is what has been instilled in me from ever since I can remember.

Katie, I like you and all, but adhering to that viewpoint too closely can end causing you a world of pain too. We do need to keep in mind that there is a huge gap between:

 

--a grown male crying about being let down by Disney or vomiting his feelings to a girl who rejected him

 

--a man not expressing sadness, confusion, or doubt (only anger) in ANY situation.

 

NEITHER extreme is healthy.

 

Yes, it is on us as men to be strong and brave. We are the ones to check the noise downstairs at night. When bad news hits we have to be the ones who are strong for our family. But, are you saying that it is a turn-off if say we cry in front of you about the passing of our grandfather (or our beloved dog)? What if we give our all to a goal and we come up short, are we supposed to pretend that it didn't bother us. That doesn't work either.

 

We are protectors yes, but we look to women to be NUTURERS, not just for our children but for ourselves as well. If we can't express sadness, confusion, or doubt in front of a woman EVER, then she isn't really being a good partner for us either, and many of us will find ourselves gravitating towards someone whom we CAN let our guard down in front of.

 

Now this may be a hypothetical point related to the OP's question and you probably already understand this. But I do feel the need to point it out.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Imajerk17

[NTV]

 

We are protectors yes, but we look to women to be NUTURERS, not just for our children but for ourselves as well. If we can't express sadness, confusion, or doubt in front of a woman EVER, then she isn't really being a good partner for us either, and many of us will find ourselves gravitating towards someone whom we CAN let our guard down in front of.

 

I actually gravitate towards women that laugh at fart jokes, but yeah I get your point.

[katiegrl]

If we can't express sadness, confusion, or doubt in front of a woman EVER, then she isn't really being a good partner for us either, and many of us will find ourselves gravitating towards someone whom we CAN let our guard down in front of.

Now this may be a hypothetical point related to the OP's question and you probably already understand this. But I do feel the need to point it out.

 

Yes I DO understand that.

 

However, the fact they all remained with me and actually wanted to marry me (my recent ex and I were engaged to be married this year), tells me that it couldn't have been all bad though (for them).

 

I really do believe they were behaving the way they were raised to behave and what was comfortable for them.

 

It's not like they tried to express a deep emotion, fear, or confusion and I squelched it. I welcomed any emotion they felt and wished to express.

 

That's just not who they were (are). But they were all, including my late dad who passed two years ago from a bad fall, very very good to me, and I them.

 

There was mutual support, caring and lots of love.

 

I don't regret my time with any of them.

 

Even the six years with my recent ex were beautiful, except for the last six months when he got into drugs again.

 

But he was into them before we met too.... so he had issues with drugs and alcohol that go way back.

 

Appreciate your thoughts though and I DO get your point, thanks.

[Got it]

Thanks but perhaps you missed this post of mine (below). My dad did not (nor any of my boyfriends) repress their emotions.

 

They contained them (self-contained). Like I said below, they didn't feel it was their place to emote their emotions all over everyone and burden them with them. They dealt with issues on their own.

 

I happen to respect that in a person and frankly I am the same way myself.

 

I feel insecure, I feel anxious, etc. I deal with it! I don't burden others (especially my boyfriends) with it.

 

Also self-containing DOES NOT mean repressing or never expressing an emotion, geez.

 

My dad told us he loved us, just NOT ad nausem. My boyfriends the same.

 

Showed us how much he loved us via his ACTIONS.

 

Again (like I say below) actions speak to me WAY more than words ever could.

 

Contain/repress.

 

You say potato. I say potahto.

 

There is a world of difference between emoting on "everyone" and emoting to your significant other. As is repressing/rarely expressing and "never" expressing.

 

True intimacy allows for, and needs, naked vulnerability.

[Got it]

I actually gravitate towards women that laugh at fart jokes, but yeah I get your point.

 

Dude you would LOVE my sister. Hot and loves a good fart app.

[katiegrl]

Contain/repress.

 

You say potato. I say potahto.

 

There is a world of difference between emoting on "everyone" and emoting to your significant other. As is repressing/rarely expressing and "never" expressing.

 

True intimacy allows for, and needs, naked vulnerabilityy.

 

Bolded is very very true, I do agree with you about that.

 

Gotta work on that for sure and encouraging my future partner(s) to do so as well (I am single now after ending LTR last December).

 

Not doing so is definitely a stumbling block to acquiring true intimacy.

Edited May 20, 2016 by katiegrl

[ashteller]

LMAO, yeah he did. Like asking to get tortured. Me, I don't mind the whips and chains so much, but asking for that is a little more exciting I think.

 

 

But it isn't truly a lost cause for him yet. If he's already speaking to her, nothing'll beat: 'you know I wanted to get to know you before asking you out. I want to do all the passionate things you can imagine and more the day I met you but.... no one wants to do that with someone they don't really know. Now I feel like I know you enough to make sure you're a good fit for me and what I want.

 

So how's dinner and a movie around 6 on Friday sound?'

 

 

She says yes, he just plays it cool til he gets alone to do his happy dance (you and I both know he hadn't done this enough to not do one).

 

 

She turns him down now, he just blows her off completely---it would be hard, but he could do it. That cold withdrawal of all the hot smoke he's been blowing up her rear oughta might make her miss it and change her mind.

 

 

Either way, with his current attitude and preconceptions I give him a 15% shot even with the words I just spoon-fed him. Not that I've got the best words. Still, that's way way better than the mary poppins stuff he was going with--and I'm not sure many guys could get themselves outta the hole that he's already dug.

 

I am using that line.

 

What hole did I dig?

[ashteller]

Hey keep in mind it's not about moving on. It's about dealing with it.

 

No two women I have met are the same.

[NTV]

Dude you would LOVE my sister. Hot and loves a good fart app.

 

First you asked me out and then you try to pawn your sister off on me??? Does she rate the dates like 1 to 10 and then if I score high enough I could stay with you or what is it here?

[NTV]

Man the hole you dug was getting so close to being friendzoned. Wait there's another Thread about that somewhere....

[preraph]

I figured the later is what tickles your fancy. No?

 

I like cool guys, yes, but both guys I fell for I would say were medium on the sentimental scale, and one of them was pretty high on it -- BUT he was very careful not to say anything he wouldn't back up with actions. He said I love you like men will in the throes of passion and then spent the next few dates looking guilty and trying to backpeddle, just like on "The Nanny." ha. (He does love me though. We're still friends 35 years later. He just knew we couldn't be a domestic couple.) He wouldn't say rainbow and unicorn type things to. Just normal guy stuff like "Never felt this way before," "never told anyone that before," "I love you -- oh, forget I said that."

[preraph]

I actually gravitate towards women that laugh at fart jokes, but yeah I get your point.

 

I laugh at fart JOKES, but if you actually purposely make one in front of me and act proud of yourself, you have just become my little brother instead of my lover. I love me a Craig Ferguson, though. He loses it every time the word fart even comes up and gets red in the face.

[preraph]

Dude you would LOVE my sister. Hot and loves a good fart app.

 

By all means, let's get those two off the market!

[NTV]

I laugh at fart JOKES, but if you actually purposely make one in front of me and act proud of yourself, you have just become my little brother instead of my lover. I love me a Craig Ferguson, though. He loses it every time the word fart even comes up and gets red in the face.

 

Naw if I let one go by accident I blame it on an animal that's not native of the region... did you just hear the zebra I think our neighbor is smuggling animals....

[preraph]

Naw if I let one go by accident I blame it on an animal that's not native of the region... did you just hear the zebra I think our neighbor is smuggling animals....

 

I think that's best. Something like, Did you know animals in the wild emit 'transient scent' to throw off predators. Good thinking.

[preraph]

I actually worked with a con man/sociopath once, closely. He was very particular about his grooming, more than most women. Very vain. Fragile ego. He was always trying to mess with my mind (and con me out of small change and things). Once he got on the subject of farts at work, and I totally convinced him that my family were kind of freaks going back at least a couple of generations that I knew of, and that we were all unable to fart (couldn't be further from the truth - my dad used to do it in the middle of the night if I had a giggly little girlfriend over just to see how long before she lost it). Anyway, I had him totally convinced and thought I'd got away scott free, but one day he did it. Yes, he tried it. He told me that since no one in my family could do it, he figured I had to be real curious about them.

[NTV]

I think that's best. Something like, Did you know animals in the wild emit 'transient scent' to throw off predators. Good thinking.

 

Oh I think maybe I explained it wrong if one accidentally gets loose it's the sound I'm afraid of--- the smell has been known to attract women... and for some reason accountants..... still haven't figured that part out.

[preraph]

Oh I think maybe I explained it wrong if one accidentally gets loose it's the sound I'm afraid of--- the smell has been known to attract women... and for some reason accountants..... still haven't figured that part out.

 

Different laws in different jungles, I guess!

[NTV]

I actually worked with a con man/sociopath once, closely. He was very particular about his grooming, more than most women. Very vain. Fragile ego. He was always trying to mess with my mind (and con me out of small change and things). Once he got on the subject of farts at work, and I totally convinced him that my family were kind of freaks going back at least a couple of generations that I knew of, and that we were all unable to fart (couldn't be further from the truth - my dad used to do it in the middle of the night if I had a giggly little girlfriend over just to see how long before she lost it). Anyway, I had him totally convinced and thought I'd got away scott free, but one day he did it. Yes, he tried it. He told me that since no one in my family could do it, he figured I had to be real curious about them.

Do I know you....?