Do you think I escaped a potentially abusive relationship? [update 2016-06-16]

[Lovezen_30]

For just under 2 months I have been dating a guy, created a previous thread about it [http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/576792-great-first-date-no-second-date-planned-do-i-move-if-he-doesn-t-initiate]. I just broke it off & am feeling really blue tbh. He was obscenely handsome, extremely intelligent and definitely charming. Also great in bed, but I think now that my hormones have calmed down, I'm seeing the light.

 

Warning signs:

 

- He wanted to become serious/exclusive very quickly. When we had this conversation, it was not sweet or romantic - "I really hope you are not seeing other guys behind my back"

- The last time we were together he scared me a little - out in public he put one hand around my neck (didn't apply pressure, but still). I said he better stop if he doesn't want to be pulled over by the police. He laughed & stopped immediately. Later that evening, he mimicked kicking me & made a reference to violence. This LITERALLY came out of the blue. Black humour or pre-cursor of what is to come?

- He told me that he liked tattooed women (the tattoo topic had come up naturally) & perhaps I should consider getting one.

- At least 50% of the time not listening to my needs/desires when it came to making plans. Putting himself and what suited him first and making it clear by his actions that I would need to fit in with that.

 

I am still in my early 20s and haven't experienced this before. My mother had a very bad experience with an ex when she was about the same age & I think I have a hyper-vigilance about getting involved with such a person

 

I tried to break it off last week but he ignored the request. THIS time, when I said I think we should stop seeing each other he merely said 'ok, if this is what you really want...'. I have not heard from him in 24 hours or so, not sure if I will again. Would like to hear your thoughts.

Edited May 22, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Added link to previous thread ~6

[jen1447]

You made the right call. No need to chance it with somebody like that.

[Lovezen_30]

You made the right call. No need to chance it with somebody like that.

 

It hurts though. I actually felt BAD about breaking up with him. Because a lot of the times together felt genuine and sweet and romantic.

 

But he was starting to test my boundaries in other ways. I feel that basically as soon as I asserted and re-asserted my boundaries he backed right down. He didn't even fight it when I ended things. I know it was only 2 months...but he called me more or less every day. You get used to having the person around.

 

The behaviour (hand around neck/joke kick) scared me though & I felt like I might always be on edge.

[jen1447]

It hurts though. I actually felt BAD about breaking up with him. Because a lot of the times together felt genuine and sweet and romantic.

 

But he was starting to test my boundaries in other ways. I feel that basically as soon as I asserted and re-asserted my boundaries he backed right down. He didn't even fight it when I ended things. I know it was only 2 months...but he called me more or less every day. You get used to having the person around.

 

The behaviour (hand around neck/joke kick) scared me though & I felt like I might always be on edge.

 

Your instincts are usually right about that stuff.

 

Let's assume for the moment he is an abuser/controller type (possibly a 'noob' but still with the building blocks in his psyche). That means there's a good chance that his 'letting you go' so easily is actually a s**t test and he's banking on you caving to your feelings of loss, convincing yourself that you were wrong, and crawling back to him apologetically. That would give him the psychological advantages of you questioning your own instincts going forward and associating his bad behavior with wrongdoing on your part. In other words, the first checkbox in his ledger for boxing you up is ticked. Or maybe he really has easily let you go bc he figures you have enough balls to make yourself an unattractive target and he'll have better luck elsewhere.

 

Of course it hurts btw - that's the way ppl w/genuine care and feelings for others respond to loss. Doesn't mean you didn't do the right thing.

[Satu]

The good doesn't neutralise the bad.

 

If you feel unsafe, or feel that things could progress into you being unsafe, you owe it to yourself to act on those feelings.

 

Always.

 

 

Take care.

[Lovezen_30]

Your instincts are usually right about that stuff.

 

Let's assume for the moment he is an abuser/controller type (possibly a 'noob' but still with the building blocks in his psyche). That means there's a good chance that his 'letting you go' so easily is actually a s**t test and he's banking on you caving to your feelings of loss, convincing yourself that you were wrong, and crawling back to him apologetically. That would give him the psychological advantages of you questioning your own instincts going forward and associating his bad behavior with wrongdoing on your part. In other words, the first checkbox in his ledger for boxing you up is ticked. Or maybe he really has easily let you go bc he figures you have enough balls to make yourself an unattractive target and he'll have better luck elsewhere.

 

Of course it hurts btw - that's the way ppl w/genuine care and feelings for others respond to loss. Doesn't mean you didn't do the right thing.

 

It could be either/both, but I am leaning towards the second option. Let's face it - since he started testing my boundaries I have given him a really hard time about it. So why bother?

 

Also, this guy - because he's so good looking & really smart/big earner - he recently won a top award out of his entire city (& it's a big city) will be a HUGE draw for lots of women. As a strong woman it actually took a lot for me to buck up & end this. So I genuinely fear for future women in his life.

 

I have to wonder what is going through the head of a guy like this with the joking kick & also jokes about violence with me. Is it subconscious? An acting out of something that has happened to him...? I don't have much experience with this stuff & am curious.

[Lovezen_30]

The good doesn't neutralise the bad.

 

If you feel unsafe, or feel that things could progress into you being unsafe, you owe it to yourself to act on those feelings.

 

Always.

 

 

Take care.

 

Thank you, Satu.

 

My first instinct when the light physical stuff happened was "go home, go home right now" but I didn't. I was a little upset with myself for not ending it sooner - but I guess I should be glad he showed me who he is potentially is sooner, rather than later?

[Satu]

It could be either/both, but I am leaning towards the second option. Let's face it - since he started testing my boundaries I have given him a really hard time about it. So why bother?

 

Also, this guy - because he's so good looking & really smart/big earner - he recently won a top award out of his entire city (& it's a big city) will be a HUGE draw for lots of women. As a strong woman it actually took a lot for me to buck up & end this. So I genuinely fear for future women in his life.

 

I have to wonder what is going through the head of a guy like this with the joking kick & also jokes about violence with me. Is it subconscious? An acting out of something that has happened to him...? I don't have much experience with this stuff & am curious.

 

I suspect that it is mostly unconscious.

 

That gives me an excuse to post one of my favourite quotes:

 

 

"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate."

 

— C. G. Jung

 

 

Your judgment is sound.

[elaine567]

- The last time we were together he scared me a little - out in public he put one hand around my neck (didn't apply pressure, but still)

 

You did the right thing -

Nigella Lawson throat grabbing husband accepts police caution | National Post

[Lovezen_30]

You did the right thing -

Nigella Lawson throat grabbing husband accepts police caution | National Post

 

God I know. This is exactly what I thought of when it happened!

 

Why the heck would he do that in public? Same with kicking. He has never once intimidated me in private. So strange...

[elaine567]

God I know. This is exactly what I thought of when it happened!

 

Why the heck would he do that in public? Same with kicking. He has never once intimidated me in private. So strange...

I guess this is a control thing.

He is intimidating you, he is threatening violence "jokingly", but violence has been introduced, which introduces uncertainty, if not actual fear in you. You do not know where this will lead, is he going to further humiliate you in public or even hit you. It puts you on edge. You are then at a disadvantage and he is in control, without actually needing to lay a finger on you in anger.

[Lovezen_30]

I guess this is a control thing.

He is intimidating you, he is threatening violence "jokingly", but violence has been introduced, which introduces uncertainty, if not actual fear in you. You do not know where this will lead, is he going to further humiliate you in public or even hit you. It puts you on edge. You are then at a disadvantage and he is in control, without actually needing to lay a finger on you in anger.

 

It was unpleasant to say the least. To have someone do things like that in public is humiliating. When he made to jokingly kick me, he actually made reference to what he had done to my neck earlier on (as if it was a planned sequence of events!). The day after this occurred, I felt shaken & then shook it off and got on with life with im in it!

 

I think part of the reason I tried to play it down was because I felt like I could trust him in the beginning. He has traits that I genuinely love and would treasure in a partner. So, because those things were taking up like 85% of the time, I was willing to ignore the crappy 15%. When I think about it, though...I started putting distance between us after this, subconsciously.

 

On our second date, he also told me how he has no time for countries that oppress women/don't give them the same rights as men. Made him seem very caring/empathetic.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Lovezen_30

[jen1447]

I have to wonder what is going through the head of a guy like this with the joking kick & also jokes about violence with me. Is it subconscious? An acting out of something that has happened to him...? I don't have much experience with this stuff & am curious.

 

Well the thinking is that a lot of controller/abusers don't see themselves as such, so the 'planning' as it were might not really be explicit. More like a lurking mental illness I suppose. That also explains the good traits - not many ppl are 100% bad or good, and that mixture can cause confusion when the bad traits are masked or made so seem less severe than they are.

[bathtub-row]

His negative behaviors are complete dealbreakers and it doesn't matter how great the good stuff was. He threatened you in many ways and you were very, very smart to walk away. Please don't second-guess yourself. That's exactly what gets women in trouble in situations like this. They feel bad, start to think about the good things, about being forgiving, etc. Being kind to an abuser is your own death sentence.

 

His comment about you seeing people behind his back almost made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Very creepy!

 

You need to know that you're probably going to hear from again. Prepare yourself for this and please don't mistake it for a compliment. Abusers are terrified of being abandoned and when they're left, they will really turn on the charm in order to get you back. And when they do get you back, watch the abuse ramp up. These are very sick, unfixable people.

[Buddhist]

He was obscenely handsome, extremely intelligent and definitely charming. Also great in bed, but I think now that my hormones have calmed down, I'm seeing the light.

 

Well if he was all that and a bag of chips it's unlikely he would have been single. I'm always wary of men who appear to have it all and yet are perpetually single. And by that I mean always on the market or only off the market for short periods of time. It says one of two things.

 

- He's not relationship minded. Okay well that's a lifestyle choice but not one I'm compatible with.

- He's got bad relationship skills, which is where I think your fellow is falling into. Handsome, witty, charming will have no problem (barring major red flags) being in longterm relationships if that's what he wants. It's not as if he's going to struggle with interest. :roll eyes:

 

Reading your points I think he possibly falls into the egocentric/narcissistic category and likes to keep partners downtrodden as a way to constantly feel superior. Those are big red flags btw. With guys like this it's often a deep seated hatred of their own mothers makes them play-act out violence they would really like to inflict on their own mothers but couldn't because they were powerless at the time. Which makes for a ticking time bomb because it will only be a matter of time before they do find the punching bag they desire.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Buddhist

[Lovezen_30]

His negative behaviors are complete dealbreakers and it doesn't matter how great the good stuff was. He threatened you in many ways and you were very, very smart to walk away. Please don't second-guess yourself. That's exactly what gets women in trouble in situations like this. They feel bad, start to think about the good things, about being forgiving, etc. Being kind to an abuser is your own death sentence.

 

His comment about you seeing people behind his back almost made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Very creepy!

 

You need to know that you're probably going to hear from again. Prepare yourself for this and please don't mistake it for a compliment. Abusers are terrified of being abandoned and when they're left, they will really turn on the charm in order to get you back. And when they do get you back, watch the abuse ramp up. These are very sick, unfixable people.

 

Thanks for the support bathtub-row.

 

I have to admit I am a little hurt at the lack of closure. Obviously I made the decision to end things, so that's on me. But when I cited WHY, mainly the fact he no longer made plans with me ahead of schedule (I was at the mercy of his schedule)/making me feel he was no longer interested...radio silence. That hurts. Really makes me feel he didn't care at all.

 

I think I am attuned to behaviour like this because 1) my mother has been through it and 2) my best friend is an abusive relationship at the moment. I am quite perceptive at spotting 'signals' & I have no time for any man that hurts or threatens to hurt any woman.

[Lovezen_30]

Well if he was all that and a bag of chips it's unlikely he would have been single. I'm always wary of men who appear to have it all and yet are perpetually single. And by that I mean always on the market or only off the market for short periods of time. It says one of two things.

 

- He's not relationship minded. Okay well that's a lifestyle choice but not one I'm compatible with.

- He's got bad relationship skills, which is where I think your fellow is falling into. Handsome, witty, charming will have no problem (barring major red flags) being in longterm relationships if that's what he wants. It's not as if he's going to struggle with interest. :roll eyes:

 

Reading your points I think he possibly falls into the egocentric/narcissistic category and likes to keep partners downtrodden as a way to constantly feel superior. Those are big red flags btw. With guys like this it's often a deep seated hatred of their own mothers makes them play-act out violence they would really like to inflict on their own mothers but couldn't because they were powerless at the time. Which makes for a ticking time bomb because it will only be a matter of time before they do find the punching bag they desire.

 

Ugh. I've been with a guy like this before, who clearly didn't like his own mother very much. Not really any red flags, but he was a compulsive liar & used to tickle me aggressively. Got rid of him fast...

 

Egocentric/narcissistic makes sense. He told me a story & when I said it was so good I would retell it to others - 'You need to be able to tell it properly though'. He also treated most of the general public as slightly stupider than him. He was very supportive of me though - of my career & made me feel I could shoot for the stars and win!

 

I am not convinced I will hear from him again as I think I have really wounded his ego by breaking up with him.

[bathtub-row]

Thanks for the support bathtub-row.

 

I have to admit I am a little hurt at the lack of closure. Obviously I made the decision to end things, so that's on me. But when I cited WHY, mainly the fact he no longer made plans with me ahead of schedule (I was at the mercy of his schedule)/making me feel he was no longer interested...radio silence. That hurts. Really makes me feel he didn't care at all.

 

I think I am attuned to behaviour like this because 1) my mother has been through it and 2) my best friend is an abusive relationship at the moment. I am quite perceptive at spotting 'signals' & I have no time for any man that hurts or threatens to hurt any woman.

 

He meant for you to be hurt. Guys like him know exactly how to play people. He knew that not acknowledging your issues with him would bother you. Please do not play into his games. Believe me, he heard you loud and clear and he knows he chose the wrong girl to pick on. You put him in his place and he knows it.

[Lovezen_30]

He meant for you to be hurt. Guys like him know exactly how to play people. He knew that not acknowledging your issues with him would bother you. Please do not play into his games. Believe me, he heard you loud and clear and he knows he chose the wrong girl to pick on. You put him in his place and he knows it.

 

Thanks bathtub-row.

 

I have actually been struggling a lot. I went to the pool today and had to sit down in the changing rooms because I felt so upset. I have been crying like a bereaved person since breaking it off & am surprised by my own reaction. We usually talk every day & despite logically knowing it is for the best, I miss him. I hope it gets better soon.

 

Because he had been distant with me lately, I guess I thought he might agree breaking up was best & wish me well like I wished him well. It was a wish to conserve the good times we had. He went cold & I think this is part of the struggle.

[jen1447]

Thanks bathtub-row.

 

I have actually been struggling a lot. I went to the pool today and had to sit down in the changing rooms because I felt so upset. I have been crying like a bereaved person since breaking it off & am surprised by my own reaction. We usually talk every day & despite logically knowing it is for the best, I miss him. I hope it gets better soon.

 

Because he had been distant with me lately, I guess I thought he might agree breaking up was best & wish me well like I wished him well. It was a wish to conserve the good times we had. He went cold & I think this is part of the struggle.

 

Sorry to be all clinical but it's just separation anxiety. It'll pass. In a few months you'll see his aloof behavior for what it really represents - a lack of genuine affection and character - and be all the more glad you ended it.

[Lovezen_30]

Sorry to be all clinical but it's just separation anxiety. It'll pass. In a few months you'll see his aloof behavior for what it really represents - a lack of genuine affection and character - and be all the more glad you ended it.

 

I guess you are right.

 

I think I am going to miss the intimacy most of all. He is one of the most sexually compatible partners I have had (seriously, through the roof) & I think this was clouding my judgement. But even just forehead kisses, holding hands, etc..yeah it feels rough

 

There were traits I loved about him too. As you say, a person isn't all bad (despite a potential lurking mental illness) & I feel there were genuine and sweet moments between us. I have been second guessing myself, but need to remember that I was at the end of my rope when I made the decision.

[jen1447]

I guess you are right.

 

I think I am going to miss the intimacy most of all. He is one of the most sexually compatible partners I have had (seriously, through the roof) & I think this was clouding my judgement. But even just forehead kisses, holding hands, etc..yeah it feels rough

 

There were traits I loved about him too. As you say, a person isn't all bad (despite a potential lurking mental illness) & I feel there were genuine and sweet moments between us. I have been second guessing myself, but need to remember that I was at the end of my rope when I made the decision.

 

Yep.

 

It is kinda infuriating that being a 'bad' person doesn't preclude good sex. And I don't just mean the bad boy thing, I mean w/legit bad ppl.

[spiderowl]

Doesn't sound right to me. Treating violent gestures are fun is a bit weird. Also it sounds like he's all about himself. If he does not respect your views or feelings, then what kind of relationship is it anyway? It would be a risk to get involved with someone like him I think.

[spiderowl]

Thanks bathtub-row.

 

I have actually been struggling a lot. I went to the pool today and had to sit down in the changing rooms because I felt so upset. I have been crying like a bereaved person since breaking it off & am surprised by my own reaction. We usually talk every day & despite logically knowing it is for the best, I miss him. I hope it gets better soon.

 

Because he had been distant with me lately, I guess I thought he might agree breaking up was best & wish me well like I wished him well. It was a wish to conserve the good times we had. He went cold & I think this is part of the struggle.

 

Sorry to hear how you are feeling but it is natural at this point. This is why abused women sometimes go back to their ex partners - they miss the good aspects. But, this is how they get trapped in the endless cycle of violence. Getting over this stage is hard but you know you are avoiding a worse situation in the long run.

[salparadise]

 

Warning signs:

 

- He wanted to become serious/exclusive very quickly. When we had this conversation, it was not sweet or romantic - "I really hope you are not seeing other guys behind my back"

 

Not the most desirable way to initiate the exclusivity talk, but I don't see it as a huge deal.

 

- The last time we were together he scared me a little - out in public he put one hand around my neck (didn't apply pressure, but still). I said he better stop if he doesn't want to be pulled over by the police. He laughed & stopped immediately. Later that evening, he mimicked kicking me & made a reference to violence. This LITERALLY came out of the blue. Black humour or pre-cursor of what is to come?

 

I don't know what this gesture was about, but I've certainly put my hand around my girlfriend's neck in an affectionate way... around the back, not front. Did he grab you around the front of the neck? And did it seem like a choking gesture?

 

- He told me that he liked tattooed women (the tattoo topic had come up naturally) & perhaps I should consider getting one.

 

I think it's crossing a boundary to imply that you should get a tattoo because he likes them. But if you were talking about it and indicated that you may want one then encouraging you might be nothing more than him being supportive.

 

- At least 50% of the time not listening to my needs/desires when it came to making plans. Putting himself and what suited him first and making it clear by his actions that I would need to fit in with that.

 

I participated in your previous thread. I suspect that this was more a case of you having some very specific expectations and interpreting him being less available than you'd like to be a serious incompatibility. And it might indeed have been that. But it's also possible that a guy who works 12 hour days and is in grad school at the same time is truly a busy guy.

 

It's not written in the official dating handbook that he is obligated to put your needs and preferences before his own. But people usually do try to meet expectations and meet each other's needs when beginning a new relationship. I don't know that how he was acting was wrong, but I do know that you felt something wasn't right. And yes, less than once a week is pretty scant contact for most people, I think.

 

I honestly can't tell if something really is not right, or if you're working very hard to interpret things that way. But if your feeling and conclusion is that something isn't right about this guy... that he's not dating the way you'd like, then it's your call.

 

Abusive? No evidence of it that I can see. Abusive people are more likely to start out with being verbally abusive than violent gestures. I can't tell by the brief descriptions if he was making threatening gestures or just being playful.

 

It does seem that you are looking for reasons to break things off. You don't really need a reason. You can do it just because you want to and it's perfectly legitimate. Paying attention to your instincts is probably best. Unless this is all about you being hyper-vigilant, in which case you could be passing up a good one.