Snagging someone else's woman - An Alpha move?

[ChickiePops]

Obviously my life experience counts for nothing (except to me), and that's fair enough. So, do an experiment. Make 2 generic online dating profiles of a man and woman (same career, hobbies, whatever). Then sit back and see who gets the most messages.

 

I know who my money would be on.

 

I've always thought that it's on each of us to create our own reality. So, I'm not going to tell you that your reality is wrong/incorrect for you.

 

But none of us are an island. We have to acknowledge the general state of the game. And we are even communicating right now on a forum full of threads which back up my argument and worldview, not yours.

 

 

 

 

 

Define "initiate". I would like to hear how you have led. I don't want to be presumptuous, but I can kind of guess.

 

I'm saying that women typically initiate differently from men (there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions never become the rule).

 

Women are indirect, and suggestive. They usually keep things equivocal. Men have to read the signs.

 

If you want an example, I had a woman last year tell me "my room-mates are going out for the weekend. I will be alone. It's a big house, and I'm scared".

 

Translation to male language: "do you want to come around mine this weekend? I've got a free house" lol.

 

With my current boyfriend I asked him out on a date and he said yes. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you guessed wrong.

[Toodaloo]

I snagged my expensive `Issey Miyake` classic black t shirt today.

 

Wasn`t Alpha, i was just careless.

 

(Sorry)

 

But i must confess i did `snag` a girl at uni once from her BF. It wasn`t alpha though as he was a massive and rather aggressive Ruby player. For some reason she was drawn to my bookish but rather exciting nature.

 

I still remember when he found out and attempted to fell me with a hefty right cross.

 

My words were.... `Oh please mate, that all you got?` Just as the lights went out.

 

She thought i was very brave.

 

Not sure where i am going with this Been a well busy day.

 

That being yourself is better than bothering about trying to be Alpha?

 

Or

 

Its a good idea to check that the guy is smaller than you if you plan to nick his bird...

 

Or

 

Wear padding and a hard hat and gum shield when pinching other mens lasses...

 

Or

 

Don't drink so much at Uni...

[2.50 a gallon]

It did not happened all that often, but many a time I have had a woman come on to me.

Thirty five years ago, I went to the pool. About an hour later this tall good looking gal showed up. About 15 minutes later, needing to refresh drink, she followed me back to my apartment. Upon closing the door, she took her top off and asked if I wanted to play. That is how I met my ExW.

[PrettyEmily77]

With my current boyfriend I asked him out on a date and he said yes. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you guessed wrong.

 

It's just so strange to even have to justify it, though.

 

I guess if women can do it too, it kind of disproves the whole concept of Alpha stuff, Game, Snagging and Moves...

 

People go after what they want, and it may or may not be reciprocated. That's it. No particular skill required other than a good dose of confidence. Whoever leads the dance is a moot point when you find a suitable partner.

[NTV]

It's just so strange to even have to justify it, though.

 

I guess if women can do it too, it kind of disproves the whole concept of Alpha stuff, Game, Snagging and Moves...

 

People go after what they want, and it may or may not be reciprocated. That's it. No particular skill required other than a good dose of confidence. Whoever leads the dance is a moot point when you find a suitable partner.

 

 

 

Don't see how that's true. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the alpha/beta thing is anything but a sales pitch for those lacking confidence, but regardless that some women make moves doesn't disprove it either.

 

 

It especially doesn't disprove the game. In fact, it adds an extra level of complexity to an intricate dance. The fact that the game of dating and relationships has been played for a long long time, and you don't see that by being the one to initiate that you're actually just playing a part in it. You're testing the male that has your attention to see if they will react badly to being hit on. Like asking them if they are opposed to feminism---a guy that wants to sleep with you is probably not going to insult feminism knowing that that particular topic is your love.

 

 

There are some folks focused on the rewards of dating, i.e. the relationship. There are some that are focused on the dance of words, timing, etc that get played to get there. And we all know that dance can be much more fun than a bad relationship. And there's folks with no interest in either.

 

 

Saying that a female can make moves in the dance doesn't disprove that the dance exists. If the alpha/beta mentality encourages some to dance who wouldn't or discourages some who shouldn't dance to stop, then it's all good.

 

 

The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people he didn't exist, right?

[PrettyEmily77]

Don't see how that's true. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the alpha/beta thing is anything but a sales pitch for those lacking confidence, but regardless that some women make moves doesn't disprove it either.

 

 

It especially doesn't disprove the game. In fact, it adds an extra level of complexity to an intricate dance. The fact that the game of dating and relationships has been played for a long long time, and you don't see that by being the one to initiate that you're actually just playing a part in it. You're testing the male that has your attention to see if they will react badly to being hit on. Like asking them if they are opposed to feminism---a guy that wants to sleep with you is probably not going to insult feminism knowing that that particular topic is your love.

 

 

There are some folks focused on the rewards of dating, i.e. the relationship. There are some that are focused on the dance of words, timing, etc that get played to get there. And we all know that dance can be much more fun than a bad relationship. And there's folks with no interest in either.

 

 

Saying that a female can make moves in the dance doesn't disprove that the dance exists. If the alpha/beta mentality encourages some to dance who wouldn't or discourages some who shouldn't dance to stop, then it's all good.

 

 

The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people he didn't exist, right?

 

I just don't think there are any particular tricks to going for someone you actually like for who they are and showing them, you know? It's actually disarmingly simple - you meet them, you get to know them, you like them, you show them. Whether it works is up to them.

 

No need for magic lines or sophisticated, artificial, un natural approaches or contraptions. Simple, direct and genuine works just fine by and on both women and men.

[jen1447]

I don't think Emily's saying the flirting/dating ritual/game doesn't exist, just that the players aren't so strictly defined.

 

Obviously my life experience counts for nothing (except to me), and that's fair enough. So, do an experiment. Make 2 generic online dating profiles of a man and woman (same career, hobbies, whatever). Then sit back and see who gets the most messages.

 

I know who my money would be on.

 

I've always thought that it's on each of us to create our own reality. So, I'm not going to tell you that your reality is wrong/incorrect for you.

 

But none of us are an island. We have to acknowledge the general state of the game. And we are even communicating right now on a forum full of threads which back up my argument and worldview, not yours.

 

I don't really buy the "my reality/your reality" stuff ....the world I live in (which is objectively the same one you and everybody else live in) only has reality itself, not diff traffic lanes of reality. Either you see it or you don't. As that translates to this topic, since both men and women at times 'pursue' other men and women, the reality is that both men and women pursue other men and women. You can attach percentages to it if you want, and I'll agree men do more of it, but that's pretty moot since having even a 99-1 statistical advantage doesn't render the 1 insignificant. (And I'd say it's much more balanced than 99-1.)

 

Anyway tangents aside, I'm not sure what you're saying - all threads on LS support the notion of men as leaders/chasers and women as followers/quarry?

 

As to "general state of the game," you're again basing your definition of it on your limited view of "the game." Not sure how I can make that any more plain.

[NTV]

I just don't think there are any particular tricks to going for someone you actually like for who they are and showing them, you know? It's actually disarmingly simple - you meet them, you get to know them, you like them, you show them. Whether it works is up to them.

 

No need for magic lines or sophisticated, artificial, un natural approaches or contraptions. Simple, direct and genuine works just fine by and on both women and men.

 

 

 

But the how and when to show them the different facets of yourself... isn't that also part of the dance?

 

 

I never said that unnatural approaches or contraptions were needed. Those depend on the dancer. Some folks are only attracted to façades. And a lot of times the folks putting on the façade are looking for something specific.

 

 

If I pretended to be super wealthy in order to attract a mate, then I would attract a mate who's interest was in that wealth. And you can't say that doesn't happen because it happens all the time. Doesn't mean they had to use wealth to attract a mate, it means they chose to. Doesn't make it a good decision in my eyes, but who am I to pass judgment when it works for some? Knowing who plays and how they play, whether earnestly or not, whether intentionally or not, whether purposefully or not, doesn't change anything. It is a game played in many different ways with many different players.

 

 

Saying that the alpha/beta face isn't a part of the dance doesn't make it so, it just means that section of the dance floor isn't something you're interested in. I could tell a chick that going to a club and booty popping probably isn't gonna win that chick a good husband, because I wouldn't be interested in finding a wife that way. Short term GF, maybe.

 

 

So I do think that there are particular tricks that can be used by some people for some people. Doesn't make them necessarily warranted or good things, but I can't pretend that they don't exist either.

[alphamale]

I have literally never met a woman that takes a guy's number, initiates the texting, takes him out, pays, leads the kissing, leads it to sex.

 

Never.

I have had that happen two or three times

[ChickiePops]

I have had that happen two or three times

 

Perhaps Jabron could benefit from some advice from a few of you men who have been pursued by women..he's obviously doing something to repel us.

 

Would you care to offer some advice? Somehow I don't think mine would be appreciated or taken seriously..

[2.50 a gallon]

I just remembered a family story about my dad. A farm boy who went to town A for farmer's night. For those who don't know, after WW2, each small farm town would stay open until 9 one night a week in hopes that the local farmers would come into shop. They varied from town to town.

On this night my dad about 20 observed that the local town rich boy, had a new gal he had never seen before. And that she was unhappy with his advances. So my generally soft spoken father spoke up, which almost led to a fight, dad was not all that big, but super strong. The rumor was that what ever he got ahold of went with. Town boy decided it was better to leave and dumped her and dad took her home. That was my mom.

[salparadise]

Perhaps Jabron could benefit from some advice from a few of you men who have been pursued by women..he's obviously doing something to repel us.

 

Would you care to offer some advice? Somehow I don't think mine would be appreciated or taken seriously..

 

 

This is just one of those things where there is a predominant modus operandi, but with a good amount of deviation. I think it's indisputable that most women (considerably more than half) expect men to pursue and have significant inhibitions about reversing that mode. However, some do not and will pursue to varying degrees.

 

The caveat is that this probably happens most frequently when two conditions exist... a) the woman knows she is attractive and has tons of self confidence, and b) the guy is a five-percenter who has women beating a path to his door routinely. Even then, the woman is not likely to pursue with the same boldness that confident guys often do.

 

But there are also many exceptions. I am not a five-percenter and I've been pursued. Usually it comes in the form of a woman trying to tempt me to make a move rather than her making the move. I don't think I can ever remember a woman initiating a first kiss. Well, one exception... initial meet and greet- she kissed me aggressively, stuck her tongue down my throat and at the same time grabbed my crotch to see what I was packing. Ha ha. Yea, she was an outlier... not the variety you'd introduce to your mother.

 

Most of the time it comes in the form of her initiating (or responding to) some touching and making it apparent that she wanted to be kissed. Or via eye contact, smiling, and body language with a certain submissive demeanor. Those are the ones that haunt me... the times I didn't respond because she was so attractive that I was paralyzed. I eventually got over that but had a lot of missed opportunities before I learned to read the signals, understand what they meant and developed the confidence to let it flow.

 

Other times (exceptions) I've had women who I did not find attractive sending subtle cues that she welcomed pursuit. The first days of warmer weather triggers them I think. I am in a great relationship now, but a year ago I was making a lot of contacts through online dating sites, going on meet and greets, talking to women on the phone, etc. Well, over the past couple of months I've had a quite a few getting back in touch.

 

There is a ton of randomness to all of this. The only generalizations that I think are valid is that most women expect the guy to pursue (with or without encouragement), and that women's form of pursuit is often subtle enough that a guy can miss the cues if he isn't paying attention. That's my perception/reality. Everyone will have their own based on what they experience and how they interpret it.

Edited May 27, 2016 by salparadise

[RecentChange]

I think this post made a lot of good points, and matches my experience.

 

Usually it comes in the form of a woman trying to tempt me to make a move rather than her making the move.

 

Oh this! While I say I am bold, and will make a move, even ask for a number - If perhaps I am not sure if he has interest, or maybe I think he is a bit out of my league, or maybe I will seeing him around and don't want to set up for an all out rejection - I'll just "tempt" and see what the response is.

 

And its interesting to see the results. Sometimes I swear you can see the gears turning in their head - waaaaaaaait, I think she is flirting with me!?

 

And if he starts responding positively I will ramp it up...

 

I don't think I can ever remember a woman initiating a first kiss.

 

Most of the time it comes in the form of her initiating (or responding to) some touching and making it apparent that she wanted to be kissed. Or via eye contact, smiling, and body language with a certain submissive demeanor.

 

Hahahah well, I am not as bold as your outlier - But gosh, I kinda love going in for that first kiss. Thinking back, I am the one who has "started" it most of the time.

 

I remember my spouse was wearing a baseball cap - and I reached out, turned it around (so the bill wasn't in the way) and went in for a kiss

 

I remember a first kiss that started with "I would kiss you right now if it weren't for all of these people around" - he said "you can kiss me" and it was on.

 

I remember being on a date, and he took my hand as we were walking down the street - when we stopped at a corner I pulled him closer to me and kissed him.

 

A big part of it for me, is that most guys seem a little nervous before that first kiss. I like to put them at ease - its like my kiss says "see! I am attracted to you. Relax, lets have fun".

[Jabron1]

Perhaps Jabron could benefit from some advice from a few of you men who have been pursued by women..he's obviously doing something to repel us.

 

Would you care to offer some advice? Somehow I don't think mine would be appreciated or taken seriously..

 

When people get too silly, I lose interest.

 

Believe what you want. I can't be arsed

[salparadise]

A big part of it for me, is that most guys seem a little nervous before that first kiss. I like to put them at ease - its like my kiss says "see! I am attracted to you. Relax, lets have fun".

 

I would've done a lot better in my younger days if more women were like you- I nominate you as chairperson of the rules committee!

[dichotomy]

Jen

No boxing?

The truth is I won her heart by baking cookies. How is that for being Alpha?And when it comes to fighting, remember the old saying, "It is not size of the dog in a fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog."

In my case I weighed a whole 135 pounds, and aged 45 to his 200 plus, age 35 and a trained fighter. How would he explain that to the cops?

 

 

One thing that became clear to me having trained in MMA for over two years now is that with similar years training/experience size does count alot - the problem is that you never know the training/experience of someone. Plenty of smaller or even dorky looking guys with 10+ years who just toy with me on the mats.

 

anyone willing to risk a physical confrontation over a date should think twice.

[Jabron1]

One thing that became clear to me having trained in MMA for over two years now is that with similar years training/experience size does count alot - the problem is that you never know the training/experience of someone. Plenty of smaller or even dorky looking guys with 10+ years who just toy with me on the mats.

 

anyone willing to risk a physical confrontation over a date should think twice.

 

It makes me laugh - especially when speaking to someone such as yourself that knows what they are talking about.

 

I am a black belt in Judo, and a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. (as an MMA-guy you will know that the things cross over).

 

I have seen huge bodybuilders walk into the combat centre, roll with me for a few rounds, and get their arse kicked. Then they sit out the rest of the session, gassed out and demoralized, and never come back

 

People seriously don't know what they are on about sometimes.

[Timshel]

Yes, this has been known to happen. Didn't know quite sure what thread to put this under, so I picked "dating".

 

Recently, I heard a "How we met and got married" story from a man I had not been in touch with since the high school days.

 

Apparently, he had been married happily for 20 years and told me that when he was like 18 or 19 met her as she was a Winn Dixie cashier that had a boyfriend.

 

Apparently, he strong armed or intimidated her boyfriend enough to hand her off to him.

 

It was a situation where he caught them in the parking lot together on her break in his car.

 

He has already been encountering her routinely at the store, but decided to make his move by approaching them both in the car and saying, "She's my girl now, not yours anymore (I'm just paraphrasing, but it was so cave man like that it was enough to intimidate the boyfriend into giving her up)

 

He didn't threaten him with violence, but just was firm about his intentions of stealing his woman away from him...and...he let him do it.

 

She ran off with him, and the rest was marital bliss.

 

I've heard of few other instances like this, where a guy was running a volunteer booth and was partnered up with a beautiful woman from his church. She was engaged (take obviously), but this situation was less confrontational...he just asked her to eat after they broke down the booth...and somehow was able to finaggle his way into her heart...and she called off the engagement.

 

They got married.

 

I have noticed that every one of these encounters wound up in marriage. So I was wondered if that had any influence?

 

With all these threads that pop up, "Should I pursue this woman who already has a boyfriend" with tons saying that would be a rather pond scummy move and your'e a creep for doing so...apparently it HAS worked for some!

 

Thoughts?

 

This thread is wtf ? If a person is available/willing to be 'snagged, poached' then so be it....obviously they are not in for the long haul, so it is a shrug moment..no loss.

The only way such a situation could occur is that kismet/compatibility did not naturally progress with the current partner....Oh well.

 

Why would any person defend or try to come between star crossed lovers.... even if it is not yourself?

This only means that someone else is better suited for both of you...I know that people become attached and have hurt feelings but I would rather know sooner than later and before legal obligations, butthurt aside.

Makes no sense.