Snagging someone else's woman - An Alpha move?

[serial muse]

Do we really have to resort to platitudes such as 'women have a choice', in every thread just to be politically correct and keep 'certain people' happy?

 

How dull.

 

and

 

Actually, my entire series of responses on the original question took that into account. Guess my input was a babbling brook of random letters. But I suppose it is fun to point out over and over and over and over that the woman gets to decide in these situations, and regardless of the nature of the relationship with either men, both are--in this hypothetical--completely powerless to her decision.

 

Lighten up, Francis.

 

A) This entire topic of conversation has been discussed to death since time immemorial, men competitive women competitive blah blah blah neandertalcakes. Over and over and over and over. So what's your point?

 

B) Regardless, I don't see how including what the woman would do in the convo makes it boringly politically correct; it turns the conversation into something more rational and reasonable and rather more interesting, IMO, because there are more options. Meanwhile, suggesting that her agency makes the two hypothetical men "completely powerless", does the opposite, of course. Since I didn't do that, I'm sure not going to own that nonsense.

Edited May 25, 2016 by serial muse

[NTV]

and

 

 

 

Lighten up, Francis.

 

A) This entire topic of conversation has been discussed to death since time immemorial, men competitive women competitive blah blah blah neandertalcakes. Over and over and over and over. So what's your point?

 

B) Regardless, I don't see how including what the woman would do in the convo makes it boringly politically correct; it turns the conversation into something more rational and reasonable and rather more interesting, IMO, because there are more options. Meanwhile, suggesting that her agency makes the two hypothetical men "completely powerless", does the opposite, of course. Since I didn't do that, I'm sure not going to own that nonsense.

 

 

 

Well, it was worth a try..... lol

 

 

 

 

Haha! You have never met me

 

Granted I know I am not "the usual" - but I have most certainly taken a number, started the texting, suggested a time and place for a date.

 

Now, he has always offered to pay, but I will usually insist on at least covering the tip.

 

As for first kiss, since I was a teenager I have been quite comfortable with intiating. Same with sex, if I want it - well I am not going to be shy.

 

We might not be the majority, but there are sexually aggressive women out there.

 

And perhaps you do not attract those types and vice versa? For example, while I am attracted to a confident guy, any little hint of game playing or cockiness and I am OUT. And some guys just aren't into that type of dynamic. They aren't comfortable with a woman who will push him down and proceed to have her way with him.

 

What are you doing later?

[serial muse]

 

I bet it would be a much more fun analysis if it were two women fighting over a man.

 

Feel free to weigh in.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/581031-why-do-some-women-feel-like-they-have-compete-other-women

[Jabron1]

But you're aware that lesbian and bisexual women who date each other exist, right?

 

Of course. Just if I'm honest, I consider it an anomaly. Because, it doesn't impact me

 

I've went out with bi-women.

 

They 'suggested' heavily.

 

One even grabbed my crotch when we were drunk and laying down at a party. So, she initiated the first time.

 

Never met a woman who led like I do though. Ever. And I'm talking about all women in general that I've seen throughout life (not just the ones that I've f*cked - which would be stupid)

 

Women suggest, women initiate. But not in the way that guys do. Not when it's man/woman anyway (I grant that it's different when alternative sexualities come up).

 

And perhaps you do not attract those types and vice versa? For example, while I am attracted to a confident guy, any little hint of game playing or cockiness and I am OUT. And some guys just aren't into that type of dynamic. They aren't comfortable with a woman who will push him down and proceed to have her way with him.

 

I'll accept the possibility. I accept what you are saying. But, I'm just saying that I haven't seen it. And that it's very rare.

 

Let's be fair here, these are exceptions to the rule.

 

A woman that 'initiates' with a man normally has a different way of doing it is what I'm saying. She usually knows the game, and knows how to help things forward.

 

I'm dealing with a girl like that right now lol. In my mind, that's just called 'high interest'.

[xxoo]

Women are accused just as often, if not more, of "snagging" or "stealing" another woman's man. When you think "homewrecker", does a man or woman come to mind?

 

So whether men or women initiate more has little to do with the absurdity of partners being "snagged".

[PrettyEmily77]

Some men in the pick up community and sex trade believe - on a fundamental level - what really happens in male/female pairings is that women choose ... men get chosen.

 

You lost me at the bolded.

[jen1447]

Of course. Just if I'm honest, I consider it an anomaly. Because, it doesn't impact me

 

I've went out with bi-women.

 

They 'suggested' heavily.

 

One even grabbed my crotch when we were drunk and laying down at a party. So, she initiated the first time.

 

Never met a woman who led like I do though. Ever. And I'm talking about all women in general that I've seen throughout life (not just the ones that I've f*cked - which would be stupid)

 

Women suggest, women initiate. But not in the way that guys do. Not when it's man/woman anyway (I grant that it's different when alternative sexualities come up).

 

There's a whole other world out there Bro, take a look some time. You might even like it bc it'll take some of the pressure off you.

 

I will grant you that methodologies to achieve the same ends tend to differ between the sexes, but this whole "men lead, women follow" notion is antiquated in the extreme and really doesn't exist in an appreciable form today, in western cultures at least. I think it probably stopped really being a thing sometime in the 1980s, and since then the holdovers who still embrace it have been fruitlessly trying to compartmentalize gender roles and sexuality in a way that's just impractical and unrealistic.

 

There are no 'roles,' we don't get degrees in gender and sex conduct and then go out and be good citizens. The world is populated by individuals, and as long as they're not suppressed they'll behave as such.

[Jabron1]

There's a whole other world out there Bro, take a look some time. You might even like it bc it'll take some of the pressure off you.

 

I will grant you that methodologies to achieve the same ends tend to differ between the sexes, but this whole "men lead, women follow" notion is antiquated in the extreme and really doesn't exist in an appreciable form today, in western cultures at least. I think it probably stopped really being a thing sometime in the 1980s, and since then the holdovers who still embrace it have been fruitlessly trying to compartmentalize gender roles and sexuality in a way that's just impractical and unrealistic.

 

There are no 'roles,' we don't get degrees in gender and sex conduct and then go out and be good citizens. The world is populated by individuals, and as long as they're not suppressed they'll behave as such.

 

Good luck to the guys in life that wait for women to make moves.

 

You yourself were talking orbiters earlier. What seperates an orbiter from the real deal? Making a move.

 

And I'm not talking about 'indirect, equivocal moves' either.

 

I'm talking direct, putting yourself out there and facing cold hard rejection moves.

 

This is not how most women behave.

 

Sure, it occasionally happens. But, a guy is cutting down his potential by like 90%.

[GemmaUK]

I'm late to the thread but the woman who gets snagged must want the man attempting to snag her.

 

A few guys tried it with me over the years when I was in a LTR - I didn't want them though so nothing ever happened. They have also been in touch since I left that LTR but I still wasn't interested.

[jen1447]

Good luck to the guys in life that wait for women to make moves.

 

You yourself were talking orbiters earlier. What seperates an orbiter from the real deal? Making a move.

 

And I'm not talking about 'indirect, equivocal moves' either.

 

I'm talking direct, putting yourself out there and facing cold hard rejection moves.

 

This is not how most women behave.

 

Sure, it occasionally happens. But, a guy is cutting down his potential by like 90%.

 

Not trying to be a dick here J-Bro but I don't really know how to say this gently either ....what you call "most women" and how they behave are a limited subset of women within your circle of influence that you've interacted with in that way. Even if you're pretty active, that's still not a large sample size. Add to that the fact you're not a woman so you don't inherently know by 'membership' how women act, and I just don't think you're speaking from a lot of experience here, sorry. Certainly not enough to attempt to speak for women in general.

 

Most of the women in your reach behave in a way that reflects your more traditional view of roles, I get it. That's just not enough for broad social conclusions.

[NTV]

Not trying to be a dick here J-Bro but I don't really know how to say this gently either ....what you call "most women" and how they behave are a limited subset of women within your circle of influence that you've interacted with in that way. Even if you're pretty active, that's still not a large sample size. Add to that the fact you're not a woman so you don't inherently know by 'membership' how women act, and I just don't think you're speaking from a lot of experience here, sorry. Certainly not enough to attempt to speak for women in general.

 

Most of the women in your reach behave in a way that reflects your more traditional view of roles, I get it. That's just not enough for broad social conclusions.

 

You know if I spoke for women in general I would say...

 

" I love NTV! He's so handsome and sexy and just unbelievably hot! I don't know how I lived before I ever met him.... <sigh> <daydream>"

[SammySammy]

The subset of women who think there are no longer gender roles or that gender roles don't apply to them is probably even smaller.

[alphamale]

One thing I can guarantee if you snag someone else's woman:

 

you have the type of woman someone else can snag.

 

Doesn't seem like the formula if you want to start anything long term.

but for one night it would be ok

[RecentChange]

Haha but there are easier ways to find a girl for the night then getting puffed up in a Costco parking lot and "stealing" someone else's girlfriend.

 

That sounds like a guaranteed way to invite an unreasonable amount of drama into your life.

[Gloria25]

The other man who broke up my family played the friend thing. All the while, telling her I didnt deserve her blah blah.

 

Net result= affair and divorce.

 

I stole this quote from another thread, and this is a great example of "snagging" - which is NOT cool.

 

You see, dude in the quote (alpha or not) forced himself into this couple and turned them against each other.

 

But still, if your woman/man isn't strong/smart enough to let some outsider turn you against your SO, then good, let them be snagged.

[Gloria25]

Haha but there are easier ways to find a girl for the night then getting puffed up in a Costco parking lot and "stealing" someone else's girlfriend.

 

That sounds like a guaranteed way to invite an unreasonable amount of drama into your life.

 

It's not just Costco. See them meeting up at Walmart parking lot all the time. One woman WITH KIDS came out with this guy rubbing all over her and they left in separate cars. I was like 'Mom, did you check out those two (I mean, who couldn't) and Ma was like, 'Yea, they were all over each other'.

 

I was also watching ID last night and this dummy was at home watching his kid while his wife was at her friends getting busy with guys and girls all the time. And gosh, she was so sloppy and gross.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Gloria25

[ChickiePops]

LOL.

 

Don't take the mickey.

 

I have literally never met a woman that takes a guy's number, initiates the texting, takes him out, pays, leads the kissing, leads it to sex.

 

Never.

 

What planet are people on?

 

I'm clearly talking to aliens lol!

 

Perhaps no woman has ever been attracted enough to you to initiate. I've initiated more than once..it's always worked out well for me. And before you label me as a ball-buster, I tend to be the more passive person in a relationship and I always go for very masculine men.

 

Also, I have never and will never cheat on my boyfriend (or any boyfriend). You cannot 'snag' someone unless they want to be snagged.

[Blanco]

LOL.

 

Don't take the mickey.

 

I have literally never met a woman that takes a guy's number, initiates the texting, takes him out, pays, leads the kissing, leads it to sex.

 

Never.

 

What planet are people on?

 

I'm clearly talking to aliens lol!

 

My last girlfriend has basically secured her last three long-term guys (myself included) this way, aside from the paying thing.

 

But I agree that it is an anomaly.

[PrettyEmily77]

LOL.

 

Don't take the mickey.

 

I have literally never met a woman that takes a guy's number, initiates the texting, takes him out, pays, leads the kissing, leads it to sex.

 

Never.

 

What planet are people on?

 

I'm clearly talking to aliens lol!

 

It's just so odd that you could be so categorical simply because you haven't experienced it.

 

I've initiated most of the LTRs I've been in and I know quite a few other women who have - it's really not that uncommon in my neck of the woods.

 

I've also heard of people of either gender changing dating partners and no one snags anyone. No duel at down involved: people (men and women) leave of their own volition without coercion, persuasion or clever mind games.

 

To be fair though, it's the whole concept of 'Alpha moves' I struggle with in the first place.

[Toodaloo]

I have initiated plenty of times. If I want something I go out to get it. With age comes a different perspective though. I have learnt to be more subtle. Although I still need to work on that...

 

I have always struggled with the Alpha/ Beta thing. Seems to me that some men believe they have to be these cock sure guys to be Alpha. In actual fact the true Alpha rarely has to do anything. They have set boundaries and simply do not involve themselves in these games and thus have no clue about the whole Alpha/ Beta thing... They just know and like who they are.

[Just a Guy]

Guess it's a changed world out there. Women have become more aggressive and clear about what they want and go for it without a second thought. I suppose one has to in a world where only the fittest survive. Sigh!

[Toodaloo]

Guess it's a changed world out there. Women have become more aggressive and clear about what they want and go for it without a second thought. I suppose one has to in a world where only the fittest survive. Sigh!

 

Its not about being the fittest or anything else "more" than the next person.

 

Its about knowing what you want and going out to get that. Its about having the courage to make mistakes, to learn, to develop and improve yourself.

 

Everyone starts off with nothing. We all have to get up and make the person we are.

 

I used to be good at horse riding. I can tell you now it took a lot of broken bones, concussions, bruises and determination to get there. But I wanted it. I wanted to be good. I wanted to be able to gallop off into the sunset. I wanted to charge off over those daunting cross country jumps. I wanted to feel the power and grace of a well ridden dressage test... I didn't want to "win" particularly. I just wanted to be the best I could be. Some day I will get another horse and I will get back on.

 

Its called motivation. If you are happy to sit back and let everyone else live around you then that is your decision. I have never been. I have always wanted to go out a grab life - so I have. Yes I am pretty arthritic and I have chunks missing and various problems from it all but I also have some of the most fabulous memories.

 

Dating is exactly the same. Go into it with fear, pondering what is the point anyway or thinking you will fail and you will. Go into it being prepared to take the knocks, disappointments and learn and you will succeed. It is hard work. It does take time. There is no quick fix or solution.

 

Anything worth having is also worth the hard work it takes to get it.

 

If that is an "Alpha" attitude then I figure there are probably more Alpha's out there than is thought. I know many highly motivated people who decide what they want then go and get it. If not we would never climb mountains, go to space, go deep sea diving, swim with sharks, or just go down to the pub for a pint on a Sunday afternoon and enjoy the sunshine...

 

Going after another persons partner is a bit cowardly. I don't see it as attractive as it lacks any form of ingenuity or awareness of self. Its like going out and buying the same sedan as your neighbour just because they have and not because you want it or particularly like it... Sad behaviour.

 

In my mind you see a guy, you like the guy, you go to get the guy. If that guy happens to be with or even sort of (FWB/ FB situations) with another woman I see the flaw and move on to find something that I can have to myself. I am greedy. I don't like to share and I certainly do not want someone elses car. I would rather have my own...

[Jabron1]

Not trying to be a dick here J-Bro but I don't really know how to say this gently either ....what you call "most women" and how they behave are a limited subset of women within your circle of influence that you've interacted with in that way. Even if you're pretty active, that's still not a large sample size. Add to that the fact you're not a woman so you don't inherently know by 'membership' how women act, and I just don't think you're speaking from a lot of experience here, sorry. Certainly not enough to attempt to speak for women in general.

 

Most of the women in your reach behave in a way that reflects your more traditional view of roles, I get it. That's just not enough for broad social conclusions.

 

The subset of women who think there are no longer gender roles or that gender roles don't apply to them is probably even smaller.

 

Obviously my life experience counts for nothing (except to me), and that's fair enough. So, do an experiment. Make 2 generic online dating profiles of a man and woman (same career, hobbies, whatever). Then sit back and see who gets the most messages.

 

I know who my money would be on.

 

I've always thought that it's on each of us to create our own reality. So, I'm not going to tell you that your reality is wrong/incorrect for you.

 

But none of us are an island. We have to acknowledge the general state of the game. And we are even communicating right now on a forum full of threads which back up my argument and worldview, not yours.

 

Perhaps no woman has ever been attracted enough to you to initiate. I've initiated more than once..it's always worked out well for me. And before you label me as a ball-buster, I tend to be the more passive person in a relationship and I always go for very masculine men.

 

I've initiated most of the LTRs I've been in and I know quite a few other women who have - it's really not that uncommon in my neck of the woods.

 

Define "initiate". I would like to hear how you have led. I don't want to be presumptuous, but I can kind of guess.

 

I'm saying that women typically initiate differently from men (there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions never become the rule).

 

Women are indirect, and suggestive. They usually keep things equivocal. Men have to read the signs.

 

If you want an example, I had a woman last year tell me "my room-mates are going out for the weekend. I will be alone. It's a big house, and I'm scared".

 

Translation to male language: "do you want to come around mine this weekend? I've got a free house" lol.

[Haydn]

I snagged my expensive `Issey Miyake` classic black t shirt today.

 

Wasn`t Alpha, i was just careless.

 

(Sorry)

 

But i must confess i did `snag` a girl at uni once from her BF. It wasn`t alpha though as he was a massive and rather aggressive Ruby player. For some reason she was drawn to my bookish but rather exciting nature.

 

I still remember when he found out and attempted to fell me with a hefty right cross.

 

My words were.... `Oh please mate, that all you got?` Just as the lights went out.

 

She thought i was very brave.

 

Not sure where i am going with this Been a well busy day.

[ChickiePops]

Obviously my life experience counts for nothing (except to me), and that's fair enough. So, do an experiment. Make 2 generic online dating profiles of a man and woman (same career, hobbies, whatever). Then sit back and see who gets the most messages.

 

I know who my money would be on.

 

I've always thought that it's on each of us to create our own reality. So, I'm not going to tell you that your reality is wrong/incorrect for you.

 

But none of us are an island. We have to acknowledge the general state of the game. And we are even communicating right now on a forum full of threads which back up my argument and worldview, not yours.

 

 

 

 

 

Define "initiate". I would like to hear how you have led. I don't want to be presumptuous, but I can kind of guess.

 

I'm saying that women typically initiate differently from men (there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions never become the rule).

 

Women are indirect, and suggestive. They usually keep things equivocal. Men have to read the signs.

 

If you want an example, I had a woman last year tell me "my room-mates are going out for the weekend. I will be alone. It's a big house, and I'm scared".

 

Translation to male language: "do you want to come around mine this weekend? I've got a free house" lol.

 

With my current boyfriend I asked him out on a date and he said yes. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you guessed wrong.