I'm having trouble with our open marriage

[oldshirt]

Why would a young, healthy male marry a woman that couldn't/wouldn't have sex with in the first place??

 

Something is definately "off" with the H to begin with.

 

 

This is simple a reverse cuckold situation.

 

 

JRP is simply being chumped here.

 

 

This simply a garden variety cuckold situation where the beta chump is being kept around for comfort and support while the WS has fun and excitement with the sexy alpha.

 

The only thing different is the genders are reversed.

 

At the rate this is going her H and the OW are going to have children together and JRP and Mr Limp are going to be home babysitting the kids and taking care of the households while H and OW are off to the Caribbean getaway have monkey sex on the beach.

[JRP]

she has her limp-d1(k husband for that.

 

Mr Limp

 

I find it difficult to pay any attention to what you write when you say things like this.

[oldshirt]

I find it difficult to pay any attention to what you write when you say things like this.

 

[]

 

[]

 

[The impotent person] is being weak and allowing himself to abandon his sexuality when there are valid and effective treatments for it because his wife doesn't want to have sex with him. She want to have sex with YOUR H instead. [The impotent person] is going along with that because he is too weak and lazy to risk upsetting her. So instead he watches her get all gussied up to go get all sweaty and breathless with you H.

 

Both you and [the impotent person] are being used, manipulated, decieved, exploited and chumped. That is fact. I tell facts the way it is so people can see the truth and make informed decisions for their well being.

 

[]

Edited January 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language and personalized content removed

[oldshirt]

IMHO the OW is intentionally keeping her H impotent because she is not attracted to him, does not respect him and does not want to have sex with him herself.

 

But he he were a sexual, virile man he would leave her behind and find someone else and would take his support and resources with him.

 

She digs JRP's H and does want to boink him, so it is in her best interest to keep her H around but out of the way.

 

- classic cake eater.

 

I also believe JRP's H is doing basically the same thing but maybe a little different spin. Sure he'd probably like to have sex with JRP too on occasion, but what kind of man marries a woman who is unable to bring herself to have sex with him unless he has some other kind of objective or agenda or dysfunction of his own?

 

It is in both H and OW's interests to keep their spouses impotent and doing the "Pick Me! Dance."

 

JRP and the OW's H can only regain their own sexuality and their own dignity and sense of humanity is they stand up for themselves and empower themselves to take back their own sexualities.

 

[]

I also believe JRP is perfectly capable of a functional sexual response with the right therapy and the right partner.

 

Neither of them are going to achieve that with their current spouses.

Edited January 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[JRP]

There is no need to be a bully, which is basically what you are doing. You are using terms to make fun of someone just because you can. I am in no different of a position than he is, would you name call when talking about me? What would it be? You can very easily say "OW's H", "limp dick" and "Mr. Limp" aren't necessary. It's just mean. If he were the one posting would you still use those terms?

 

I understand your point and I agree with some things that you are saying, that is not one of the though.

[Globug]

JRP the bottom line is this is no longer an open marriage to ensure all your DH needs are being met. It has turned into an emotional affair and that was NOT part of the deal when you agreed to the terms you agreed to.

This is NOT your fault. All people have different rules for their marriage and yes there are people who can have successful open marriage because sex is the only thing that is open. Not their heart, their emotions, their feelings. Your heart is breaking because your DH is cheating on you in the open & I am NOT talking about the sex. What he is doing emotionally with this woman is not right & he is not honoring the vows you two made even if they are not conventional vows.

 

 

At the moment I would not focus on the sex issue. If you love him & want to be with him vise versa he needs to stop seeing this woman the same way you stopped communicating with her husband. Sure he might have to go a few months without having sex but big rip. You have been dealing with months & months of your DH slowly building a wide berth between you two.

[William]

OK, folks, let's focus on the topic and thank you to the interested reader who reported some language and civility issues in the thread. LoveShack.org welcomes advice and opinion, and disagreement, and proscribes it be submitted in a respectful and topical manner. With 181 posts, this thread has been going on awhile and I'll leave it open for now but will subject it to a full review if any further issues occur. Use the ignore list as needed and/or PM to hash out any individual disagreements off-forum.

 

Thanks and please continue!

[stillafool]

It's 6:30AM and I can't sleep so here I am...

 

Something that worries me about ending my marriage, or just talking to my husband about this, is that he is a sweet talker. Always has been. When he wants to, he knows all of the right things to say and how to swing things in his favor.

I'm sure the OW enjoys his sweet talk as well.

 

 

I don't think we can ever come back from this. I don't know how I would trust him again. I know, I know..., that I won't be able to have sex with him while this is going on. As long as he is sleeping with other women, I won't be able to do it.

But you aren't trying to give him sex and said you just can't do it. What makes you think you can do it now?

 

I deserve better than to feel like this for the rest of my life, and he deserves better than to be with someone who can't give him the basic things he needs.

Yes and you've already established this previously.

 

I feel bad if I were to talk to the OW's husband while I'm still with my husband. Partly because I don't want to do the OW what she did to me.

Remember that you gave her your permission. What happens after that was out of your hands.

 

 

Mostly because knowing that he doesn't want me to just makes me feel like crap. He doesn't care when I feel like crap, but still, it's like I can't go there. He can tell the OW that he loves her, that he wishes he had met her first, that she's everything he wants in life, and I still feel like I can't talk to another guy. It's stupid, really.

No, you can talk to another guy but you won't. Big difference.

 

 

The text he sent her that said he'd rather be with her (which he actually sent many times) was sent while we were out to dinner. He was acting completely normal, we were having a good time and I wouldn't have suspected that he was really thinking about the OW and that he'd rather be with her. We're in another country, supposed to be having a great time and bonding as a couple, and he's thinking about her.

This shows you how capable your H is of cheating and lying without blinking an eye.

 

 

The OW's husband has said that I should divorce my husband. That I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It all just makes me feel like the bad person here. I don't know if there is a bad person in this scenario, more like two people who should never have been together, but I feel like the bad guy.

And, why doesn't he take his own advice and divorce his wife?

 

 

My husband professes his love to this woman (who says the same things back) and one of the texts said "If only I had found you first. I didn't, but you will be my last". It's like he thinks he could have a whole life with her. I really don't see it. I see it fizzling out at some point when the sex gets boring or someone hotter comes around.

That's not necessarily so. Hot sex binds a couple; probably more than anything. Remember he is with you and you can't provide any sex but he is there.

 

I don't see the OW divorcing her husband at all. They have a prenup in place and apparently it's not something she wants to be used. Based on their home, they are very well off. I don't know if her husband will ever divorce her. I don't know the full dynamic of their marriage or what keeps him with her, or what is in that prenup.

Why haven't you asked him? He certainly doesn't mind giving you his opinion about divorcing your husband.

 

 

I do wonder if those texts are how they really feel, or if they are "just talk". Right now, it doesn't feel like it matters. I don't want a divorce, but I feel like I need a divorce. If I talk to him and he says that he would stop seeing the OW and cease all contact, I don't know if I would trust that it really ended. I don't know how I'd trust him, and we could work on it but it doesn't feel like it's worth it. Recover our relationship from that for what? To start it again just with a different woman

.

 

You can know all of this by asking him and telling him that you saw the texts between him and OW. You are too afraid of his answers and of losing him.

 

If I go back some months, I was happy-ish with our marriage. I was happier than I am now, but it was never at 100% and I don't think it ever could be as long as he is seeing other women. It's a never ending loop, though. As long as he is seeing OW I won't be able to be intimate with him, as long as we are not intimate he will see OW. We use to spend a lot of time together, we went out on dates, took vacations, we planned things for the future, we had fun and kept things spontaneous, we tried new things together and pushed each other to try new things, I would have considered him my best friend. We talked a lot, we could be open with each other and there was trust. He was sweet and romantic and did cute little things that he knew would make me happy. But that's going back to July 2016. Right now, it feels like a lifetime ago. As soon as this OW came into his life, he basically walked out of my life without actually leaving.

It definitely sounds like you two were best friends. Sex makes you lovers.

 

Intimacy isn't just sex, there is a lot of other things that can fall into that category. We use to have intimacy but that has gone out the window never to return. Maybe she is fulfilling all of those needs for him to the point where he has nothing left for me. Or maybe he feels nothing for me anymore and doesn't want to or doesn't know how to leave me. At his core, he's not a bad guy. He's actually really sensitive and sweet. I don't know, maybe I ruined him, but he's not the a**hat that he appears to be throughout this thread. Or he is and I'm just too blind to see it. I do know that he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy, I know that he doesn't want to feel like he wasted years of his life, and I do know that he has a jealous streak that doesn't want me to be with another man.

No he is not a bad guy and you are not a bad woman. You guys just married into something that is not sustainable.

 

 

Those 3 things could very well be preventing him from divorcing me. I wish I could hear him straight out say "Yes, I want a divorce. I don't want to be with you anymore and I am in love with OW." I feel like it would make this so much easier and eliminate the doubt and "what if's" from my mind.

Maybe if you tell him what you found in those texts he will tell you the truth. You will never know until you ask.

 

Even though I don't think there is any way we can rectify this, I do want to talk to him. When is a bigger question. Now or when we are home... I do not know. Posters are right, there is no way to solve this when I can't offer him what he needs.

 

It is correct that if I head the words that he loves another woman come out of his mouth I'd be done sooner, or more easily. Right now I only know what I have read on his phone, but once those words come out of his directed at me, then I really know and I'll never be able to un-know. I don't want to be the person that ignores every red flag and every sign, but maybe I am that person. If I wasn't I probably never would have got myself into this situation.

 

Like I said above, you will never have the answers to your question until you ask HIM. Edited January 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
formatting ~6

[oldshirt]

There is no need to be a bully, which is basically what you are doing. You are using terms to make fun of someone just because you can. I am in no different of a position than he is, would you name call when talking about me? What would it be? You can very easily say "OW's H", "limp dick" and "Mr. Limp" aren't necessary. It's just mean. If he were the one posting would you still use those terms?

 

I understand your point and I agree with some things that you are saying, that is not one of the though.

 

 

Ah so you do have some fight in you - that's GOOD! You are going to need that. Reach down inside yourself and dig up some more of that spit and vinegar, you are going to need a lot of to get yourself where you need to be.

 

As long as you understand my point and what I am getting at, that is fair. I understand your point. But I need you to unstated mine. I am on your side here and one thing I can't stand is people being duped and used and not standing up for themselves.

 

It's ok be be angry at me, I can take it.

 

But you need to turn that anger to stand up for yourself and take positive action that is to your benefit and your well being.

[ShatteredLady]

It's my understanding that if a man suffers from chronic nerve damage an implant just gives an erect penis with no actual feeling. Is this only correct if this issue is caused by spine damage? I don't recall reading what caused the OW's husband's problem...

[elaine567]

Do you know if he is still talking to her whilst you are on vacation.

Have you had the chance to look at his phone again?

[Springsummer]

I

JRP and the OW's H can only regain their own sexuality and their own dignity and sense of humanity is they stand up for themselves and empower themselves to take back their own sexualities.

 

[]

I also believe JRP is perfectly capable of a functional sexual response with the right therapy and the right partner.

 

Neither of them are going to achieve that with their current spouses.

 

 

well said!

[impasse]

It's my understanding that if a man suffers from chronic nerve damage an implant just gives an erect penis with no actual feeling. Is this only correct if this issue is caused by spine damage? I don't recall reading what caused the OW's husband's problem...

 

Prostate surgery could have caused it. The man would still have feeling, and can orgasm without being erect. He wouldn't be able to ejaculate anymore. Unless the surgery was nerve sparing.

[JRP]

It's my understanding that if a man suffers from chronic nerve damage an implant just gives an erect penis with no actual feeling. Is this only correct if this issue is caused by spine damage? I don't recall reading what caused the OW's husband's problem...

 

He was in a sporting accident that caused sacral nerve damage. He can have psychogenic erections but not a reflexogenic erection or spontaneous erection. He has some feeling, he probably wouldn't be able to ejaculate. I don't know exactly how much sensation he retained. He described the loss of sensation in his lower half like... rubbing your leg very gently with jeans on vs touching the bare skin on your leg. You can feel it, but the sensation isn't as strong. He has enough sensation in his legs and feet to walk or drive, but he was in physiotherapy to re-learn how to walk and he has to concentrate harder on what his legs are doing (and other bodily functions).

 

Do you know if he is still talking to her whilst you are on vacation.

Have you had the chance to look at his phone again?

 

He is still talking to her. He has been texting her the entire time. I talked to him about it but I'm too pissed off to post about it right now. It would be an incoherent mess. In short, when I needed him to stop his involvement with her he said no.

[anna121]

I'm so sorry, JRP.

[road]

There is no need to be a bully, which is basically what you are doing. You are using terms to make fun of someone just because you can. I am in no different of a position than he is, would you name call when talking about me? What would it be? You can very easily say "OW's H", "limp dick" and "Mr. Limp" aren't necessary. It's just mean. If he were the one posting would you still use those terms?

 

I understand your point and I agree with some things that you are saying, that is not one of the though.

 

It is not bullying when I say you are not in an open marriage your in a reverse cuckold relationship/affair.

 

 

The OW is cuckolding her BH.

 

 

You need to wake up and realize this truth. Then make the decision to stay married or divorce.

[BaileyB]

He is still talking to her. He has been texting her the entire time. I talked to him about it but I'm too pissed off to post about it right now. It would be an incoherent mess. In short, when I needed him to stop his involvement with her he said no.

 

I'm very sorry. I'm not surprised, but still very sorry for your pain.

 

When you are ready, we are hear to listen.

[EZNona]

 

He is still talking to her. He has been texting her the entire time. I talked to him about it but I'm too pissed off to post about it right now. It would be an incoherent mess. In short, when I needed him to stop his involvement with her he said no.

 

I am also very sorry to hear this. The OW has him hook, line, and sinker. and now with you saying to stop and him saying no, it has officially become a full blown physical and emotional affair. And he doesn't want you even speaking to the OW's husband??? Laughable...

 

I am so sorry for all the hurtful things that have happened to you. Nobody deserves that, but now I hope you kick his keister to the curb!

[sandylee1]

I agree with everything

Oldshirt said in the last few few posts. It was blunt, but straight to the point of the matter and I think you need that fiestiness with which you responded to him, to deal with your marriage and stand up for yourself.

 

You have agreed to this forced open marriage (despite expressing you didn't want it, both before and after marriage) with rules, that have become as flexible as an Olympic gymnast.

 

It's time you stopped being the obedient wife and doing what you want, just the way your husband has been doing your entire relationship/marriage .... and if that involves speaking to the OW's H, then so be it. How many other people IRL can you speak to, who know exactly what you're going through.

 

You and OWs H have become secondary relationships in your marriages. Remaining safe and sound at home while your respective spouses get closer and closer to each other on every level.

 

It seems your pain is increasing now he's refused to stop seeing her, as per your request.

 

No doubt as soon as you get home, he'll be itching to see her.

 

How much more of this can you take, before you end up having a mental breakdown? These traumatic painful situations literally drive people mad and they end up being sectioned.

 

You need to think about your mental health and emotional well-being.

[Mumbles]

In short, when I needed him to stop his involvement with her he said no.

 

Ok. Well. I hope he knows whats he's doing. I'm surprised by this and disappointed. Very sorry for you and what has to come next.

 

From the snippet above I'm going to infer that you passed along a well worded and thinly veiled ultimatum. I mean, when your partner asks you to stop seeing someone - its not really a request is it?

 

So here we are, request/ultimatum delivered and refused. Leaves little choice on the next move.

 

Lawyer up, immediately you get home. Make enquiries on your lawyer -before- you get home if you don't already have a name ready. You have mentioned the state of finances and materials previously and it sounds to me like there might be some difficulty there - so get advice as soon as you can on how to mitigate issues that might arise.

 

Husband has called your bluff. Now need to follow through and separate if he's not willing to do the right thing by your original arrangement, but there are legal ramifications to this, in most places, so get the order of activities laid down by your legal council.

 

Personally, I'm still hoping husband snaps out of it. But you have to get those defences in place now in case he doesn't.

[JRP]

I talked to my husband about this yesterday morning (Thursday). I didn't know how it was going to go, but I didn't expect it to end with us screaming at each other, saying I want a divorce, him storming out and me getting a different hotel room. We've never fought this hard. Screaming non-stop at each other, slamming things, saying horrible things to each other, I threw my rings at him and he picked them up and said he'd give them to a real woman.

 

I asked him about the text messages before things got heated, and he was pissed that I looked at his phone said it was just talk and meant nothing. He said that he's not in love with her but he has feelings for her. In the sense that he cares about her, enjoys her company and he only did it to keep her happy and to maintain the relationship. After things got heated he said he meant every word and that she's far better than I am.

 

The conversation started off fine... but as soon as I said I needed him to stop seeing that particular OW and find someone else, he got defensive and said I was ruining the trip. I didn't tell him to stop seeing her, I said I needed him to stop seeing her and how it was affecting me. He immediately said no, he wouldn't stop seeing her because they get along well and if it's not her it will be someone else and I can't veto everyone. We kept talking about it and he said (angrily) "if you want me to stop seeing her than have sex with me right now. Don't say you can't because we both know that you can, you're just a prude. So if you want me to stop seeing her, f*** me. Now." He unzipped his pants and tried to pull mine down. I smacked his hand away and he said "Exactly. You were never a wife, you'll never be half the woman (OW) is. You are a housemaid at best, and you're not even good at that."

 

I told him that I want to try taking a break from the open marriage and try to just work on us and our intimacy. He said no and that it was just an attempt for me to try and control him. Which led to me saying if he wants an open marriage then it has to be totally open, not one sided (I didn't really mean it). He responded with, "You want a open marriage? Fine, go f*** (OW's H). Have fun with his limp d***. Let me know when you want to stop being a prude and c***tease and want a real man. In the mean time I'll be doing whatever and whoever I want."

 

I don't remember what I said after that but I know I lost it, he followed with "Go suck Owen's limp dick. Have fun being with two men who are with the same woman. (OW's H) is married to her, think he'll leave her just because you say so? He doesn't even want you." and "If you were twice as smart you'd still be stupid as f***" and "Stop being a c**t. Go do some laundry, that's all you were ever useful for. Maybe make some dinner while I go out and bang a prostitute here."

 

(Oldshirt now maybe you can see why I got pissed off at your posts regarding OW's H.)

 

I said that I wanted a divorce and he responded with "I'm not divorcing you. I'm filing for annulment. Abolish this sham of a marriage. You're an embarrassment for a wife. Not only are you a prude, you're overall a terrible wife. Marrying you was the biggest mistake of my life. I want you erased from my past, present and future."

 

There was a lot more said, a lot of it I can't even remember. I'll admit, I said some nasty things myself in retaliation. But there is no where to go from here is there? Even if things were said out of anger, there is truth somewhere in there. I said hurtful things too, but I believed all of them I just wouldn't normally say them. I think I'm going to book a flight to go home asap... call a lawyer, take my stuff and move out before he gets home. I can't stay here anymore and sure as hell don't want to sit next to him for 10 hours on a plane.

[beautifulinside2]

Many times we don't ask questions, its because we already know the answers, we just are not prepared to do anything about it. Our body and heart has a way of letting us know when enough is enough. You have come to that point. He meant what he said have no doubts about that. However now is not the time to over react, the dynamics have not changed, nothing has changed so no point in booking separate flights wasting unnecessary money and energy unless you have money to blow. On the way home request a different seat on the plane, maybe take a seperate taxi and take some time apart (maybe a few nights in a hotel). Talk to the OM for someone to vent to and maybe some advice or comfort, also call a lawyer.

 

I believe some of this is frustration from your husband but it doesn't matter because you will not or cannot do anything to ease his frustrations, therefore it's only going to get worse.

[BaileyB]

I'm so sorry. That must have been horrible for you.

 

He is angry, because you have threatened his OW. That is probably why he was so nasty to you, but it also reveals his character. His behavior and the things he said are obviously, absolutely unacceptable. The things he said in anger are obviously meant to be hurtful, but very untrue.

 

There is nowhere to go from here.

 

If I was you, I would book a flight home, gather my belongings, stay with a family member/friend, and start divorce proceedings. I would be done - for my own self protection, I wouldn't talk to him again.

 

I hope you have good support from family and friends, you will need it. I would also encourage you to go back to counselling.

 

And, please keep posting if it's helpful to you. Take the greatest care.

[sandylee1]

I'm sorry he was so horrible to you. The resentment is definitely there from him.

 

At least you know how he feels for sure. There was no need for the nastiness, but no matter how angry he was, some of those things are totally unforgivable, given the trauma you suffered.

 

He's not the man you thought he was.

 

It's a shame you both didn't end things before it came to this and you could have been friends, but you know he's not a friend.

 

He wanted a cook and a housemaid all along, allowing him to go and be with whoever he wanted to.

 

There's something very sadistic about that.

 

There's no going back and you need to focus on moving forwards.

 

Much of what he's said, many of us here have told you already, but you needed to hear it from his mouth. You have your answers.

[elaine567]

There is nothing at all surprising in what he said.

He, like you I guess, just said a lot of things he really meant, things he had kept to himself to keep the peace and given the opportunity to unburden himself, he let it all out.

 

He, no doubt felt emboldened as he now has someone else to watch his back. She will be on his side, whether or not she wants him long term.

 

As suspected, he deeply resents you and you can't stay with someone who thinks so little of you. Even if he did apologise and try to make amends, then you would have to question his motives as to why he was doing that.

 

Annulment vs divorce - he seems keen on annulment, ask your lawyer what that really means for you.

YOU need to legally protect yourself and your assets here, the time for grief, is after you have your ducks in a row.