I'm having trouble with our open marriage

[anna121]

Right now JRP's only obligation is to her own health and well-being. If that doesn't correspond with reporting her H, that is her decision and IMO she should not be subject to pressure or criticism for it.

 

Asserting some sort of broader social responsibility to report his behaviour is beyond tone-deaf. It's not her problem.

 

And, TBH, I read the above posts doing so as subtly implying that her account is not truthful...or she would be going to the police. Which is, frankly, disgusting.

[JRP]

JRP, I really feel for you and can understand why you are moving out. What your husband said to you was horrible. Words hurt and some words are unforgivable coupled with what he did physically to you. Also the fact that he isn't even concerned enough about your well being to check to make sure you are safe when in a foreign country. Unbelievable! He certainly didn't have a problem checking in with her while out to dinner with you.

 

I hardly think the OM sleeping next to you all night on a couch is cheating. Give me a break. You have done nothing wrong considering the circumstances.

 

I feel bad leaving so quickly, like I'm just giving up. If it was just the words and he tried to make it up after the fight, maybe it would be different... but everything all together... it's clear that our marriage is over. There is no way back from that. He didn't care what he said to me, didn't care what he did to me and didn't care about me afterwards.

 

I didn't do anything with him, I shouldn't feel bad about it... Yet I do. I know my husband wouldn't be okay with it and would consider it cheating. It shouldn't matter at this point, but apparently it does.

[stillafool]

 

I didn't do anything with him, I shouldn't feel bad about it... Yet I do. I know my husband wouldn't be okay with it and would consider it cheating. It shouldn't matter at this point, but apparently it does.

 

If he cared he would have been on his way back home the minute he found out from his OW that her husband was with you. You are right, he doesn't care.

[JRP]

If he cared he would have been on his way back home the minute he found out from his OW that her husband was with you. You are right, he doesn't care.

 

I didn't think about that. You're right. He didn't even try to contact me, even if he was extremely pissed but still cared he'd want answers. He doesn't care at all, I shouldn't either.

[Orlan]

Right now JRP's only obligation is to her own health and well-being. If that doesn't correspond with reporting her H, that is her decision and IMO she should not be subject to pressure or criticism for it.

 

Asserting some sort of broader social responsibility to report his behaviour is beyond tone-deaf. It's not her problem.

 

And, TBH, I read the above posts doing so as subtly implying that her account is not truthful...or she would be going to the police. Which is, frankly, disgusting.

 

So you are ok if women never report rape and rapists always get a free pass? The point of the post isn't to criticize her or pressure her, it's to help her see that she should be reporting this. If she doesn't want to, ok, but someone should have said it. I'm actually surprised no one else even thought that she should report it but rather, just let rapists rape without punishment.

 

I will say that it seems a bit off for a woman to report rape and get a conviction, then turn around and decide the next time doesn't need to be reported.

[stillafool]

So you are ok if women never report rape and rapists always get a free pass? The point of the post isn't to criticize her or pressure her, it's to help her see that she should be reporting this. If she doesn't want to, ok, but someone should have said it. I'm actually surprised no one else even thought that she should report it but rather, just let rapists rape without punishment.

 

I will say that it seems a bit off for a woman to report rape and get a conviction, then turn around and decide the next time doesn't need to be reported.

 

I'm sorry but you are being a bit harsh on OP. She was gang raped by a bunch of strangers and it doesn't compare with what happened between her and her husband. I don't think you should continue beating her over the head with the above opinion.

[ShatteredLady]

All you NEED to be doing right now is taking care of yourself. You're stronger than you know. Please stop beating yourself up over everything that has happened. You have been deeply hurt, betrayed & abused by the man who was supposed to love & cherish you. It's horrific!!

 

Now that you've sorted your new home & had a little time to think are you ready to reach out to your support people? I truly understand the instinct to curl-up & hide after such a terribly traumatic experience but you really do need loved ones around you at a time like this.

 

I know that your friend is a very complicated situation BUT you & he already have intertwined lives (for better or worse). He understands so much. Would you feel more comfortable confiding in him? I think that he can provide you with much needed gentle support. It doesn't need to go any further. I'm sure that he completely understands that it's WAY too soon for you to start a romantic relationship but he is your FRIEND.

 

I hate to think of you alone at a time like this. No-one knows what the future will bring. Is this really a time to overanalyze? He must also be going through tremendous pain. Has his wife travelled out? Left him? You could make it clear that you are available for NOTHING but friendship & lean on each other through this crisis in BOTH of your lives.

 

Best wishes. Stay strong.

[niji]

I will say that it seems a bit off for a woman to report rape and get a conviction, then turn around and decide the next time doesn't need to be reported.

 

So you don't see a difference between the OP's feeling for her husband vs for the ex boyfriend that basically gang raped her? The act is the same, but the feeling/priority is different. If I was in a marriage and know sex is expected, then get forced to do it ONCE, I would probably reconsider the relationship and leaving the person, but I would think hard before reporting them as a sexual offender to law enforcement. That's not the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things, but there's nothing "off" about the OP not interested in reporting her husband right now.

 

That's like saying there's something "off" if I only report a gang beating me up, but not my parents. "That's off, how come you only want the gang to get charged, but not your parents??"

 

Same act, different levels of emotions. Life isn't black and white. Unfortunately I actually think if we act as though it were, we would be hurt less by the ones who are supposed to love it most. We, however, tend to give them too many free passes.

[anna121]

So you are ok if women never report rape and rapists always get a free pass? The point of the post isn't to criticize her or pressure her, it's to help her see that she should be reporting this. If she doesn't want to, ok, but someone should have said it. I'm actually surprised no one else even thought that she should report it but rather, just let rapists rape without punishment.

 

I will say that it seems a bit off for a woman to report rape and get a conviction, then turn around and decide the next time doesn't need to be reported.

 

I reject your broader inferences, which are absurd and hyperbolic.

 

But thank you for so beautifully illustrating my point, and for confirming my suspicions about your intervention in this thread.

[JRP]

So you are ok if women never report rape and rapists always get a free pass? The point of the post isn't to criticize her or pressure her, it's to help her see that she should be reporting this. If she doesn't want to, ok, but someone should have said it. I'm actually surprised no one else even thought that she should report it but rather, just let rapists rape without punishment.

 

I will say that it seems a bit off for a woman to report rape and get a conviction, then turn around and decide the next time doesn't need to be reported.

 

I was a kid... Who just started high school and had my first boyfriend. At that point he was the world to me, I was a stupid kid, I didn't know better. So when he raped me again and again and again for a year I went along with it because somehow in my stupid teenage brain I justified it as normal. I "loved" him and trusted him. It went on for a year and I hated it but I didn't say anything to anyone. I had a high school counsellor ask me about it and all I did was deny, deny, deny. Then he drugged me and let other people rape me. There is no comparison of what I felt in that moment and what I felt with my husband. I told my parents because they knew something was wrong and I was pregnant. My parents handled everything, I just did what I was told to do. I had to go to court and testify and it was horrible. Telling and reliving what they did in a room full of people because the room wasn't closed to "spectators", though I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be. Looking at the boys (what they were at that point) who raped me and knowing at that moment I was pregnant by one of them. Being moved across the country by my parents, losing my friends permanently, my school, my sports, my childhood home, everyone in the school finding out what happened, rumours starting about what happened. To this day there are still people out there who are pissed, I've seen Facebook posts about it that a friend of mine showed me about how unjust it was. And you know what... it wasn't worth it. Not for a couple measly years of them being locked up and me living in fear when they were released. It wasn't worth it.

 

Yes, what my husband did was wrong but what happened was night and day to my past. So thank you for your opinion but please... take it elsewhere.

[Robert]

In respect to the OP's request above, moderation will ask that member's keep to the topic at hand and respect the OP's most current situation for the continued discussion.

 

In addition, I would like to remind members to please use the alert us button instead of responding directly to unwelcome comments or berating on the forums that would be in direct violation of civility and respect (per our Community Guidelines).

 

~ V

[sandylee1]

.

 

You need to stop the thinking that you gave up ... You didn't. You've hung in and clung on for longer than was in the best interest of your emotional health and to the detriment of making any progress in healing.

 

You couldn't make it work. He couldn't make it work. It was a mammoth task from the get go. I know it's hard to let go of someone you love, but the odds were so stacked against you both.

 

Let's say for one minute that you didn't confront him about the messages to the OW and him lying about going to movies with her .... You would have got through the vacation and nothing would have changed when you got home.

 

• He'd simply be getting closer to her and building up more resentment for you.
  

 

• You'd still be struggling when he meets up with her and you'd never be able to have sex with him as a result of that.
  

 

• He'd still be forbidding you to talk to her husband.
  

 

I must admit my heart sank earlier in the thread when you said something about being in the same position in 10, 20 or 40 years. I couldn't imagine why you were willing to put yourself through that torture, knowing what you knew.

 

I wish it didn't come to such an explosive situation for the both of you... And a terrifying situation for you, but it's for the best for both of you.

 

Bottom line? You didn't give up.

Edited January 25, 2017 by sandylee1
Typo

[impasse]

He couldn't get an erection and said it was because I suck and "at least it's practise for when you blow (OW's H).

 

Serious question here so please don't take it the wrong way, OP. From this sentence I take it that oral sex was involved. Even though it was forced, would that count as consummating the marriage? If you could have his annulment request denied right away then the uncontested divorce would go by a lot faster. A speedy divorce would be a lot better for you, emotionally and financially. You could ask your lawyer about that, if you feel comfortable.

[sandylee1]

Serious question here so please don't take it the wrong way, OP. From this sentence I take it that oral sex was involved Even though it was forced, would that count as consummating the marriage? If you could have his annulment request denied right away then the uncontested divorce would go by a lot faster. A speedy divorce would be a lot better for you, emotionally and financially. You could ask your lawyer about that, if you feel comfortable.

 

I didn't get that at all.

[JRP]

The marriage is only consummated if we have consensual vaginal sex (sex that could result in conceiving a child, ejaculation isn't necessary).

[MJJean]

The marriage is only consummated if we have consensual vaginal sex (sex that could result in conceiving a child, ejaculation isn't necessary).

 

Can confirm. Our state law specifies that consummation means PIV sex. However, and this is disturbing, they don't mention it has to be consensual.

 

I don't know what faith you subscribe to, but if you happen to be Catholic and may want to remarry someday, non-consummation is also grounds for a Decree of Nullity (Annulment) in the Church.

[impasse]

I didn't get that at all.

 

She said in another post that they went farther than they have before, and also in another post that there has been genital touching. So with the comment "at least it's practise for when you blow the other guy" I took that as she "performed" oral on her husband and he couldn't get hard thus, why it's practise for when she "blows" the other man because he is impotent. Hypothetically being with the other guy of course, I could be wrong. Regardless oral isn't consummation of the marriage so it's a mute point.

[JRP]

My husband's plane is going to arrive in just over an hour and I'm so nervous I feel like I'm going to puke. It feels a lot more real now than it did a couple days ago. Everything is going to go through the lawyer at this point so I shouldn't have to see him or talk to him. It's such an abrupt ending... This is it... Our marriage ends with this...

 

Being alone in a new apartment with my things just feels weird and wrong. I know that I need to tell people soon. Now that he's almost home it will start coming out. I still have such a strong urge to just bury it and myself and deal with it alone. I know that won't be good for me. Sitting here alone is really hard and I just cry all the time.

 

Even with the other man who is the only person who understands this, I just want to be alone. He has texted me a bit and offered to come over today because he knows my husband is coming home today. On one hand I want him to, he is a good friend and he knows how to be supportive. On the other hand, I don't want him to because I don't want to give him the wrong idea or do something stupid, I want to be alone and I want to remove myself from that situation not be sucked back in. I know that he feels the same, I'm the only person that gets it. In his world, my husband is coming home and that means his wife is going to be "out". I know that feeling all too well. I also have this fear, which may be irrational, of his wife following him so she would know where I live now and tell my husband. It's not like he's a murderer, and he still wouldn't be able to get into the apartment anyway or know which unit I'm in. I just wish he wasn't part of this situation, but then he would understand it.

 

I'm not religious at all, if I were I guess I'd prefer and annulment. My husband isn't religious either. I don't even know what to call him now.... He's still technically my husband and that's what I'm use to calling him. But he's not going to be much longer. Saying "ex"-husband feels so foreign...

[stillafool]

He is now you STBXH (Soon to be ex husband). Try to relax if you can since he doesn't know where to find you. I doubt OW would tell him where you live because more than likely she doesn't want him to know so she can have him to herself. Are they flying back together?

[EZNona]

His return must be nerve-racking no matter if you see him or not...It's good you've been able to have a few days alone before his return though, if only to get a bit of peace since you have no idea what will transpire next from him once he's back home. But I think he's ready to move on as well since you haven't heard from him which only confirms his lack of care for you.

 

Do you think he will be shocked that you moved out so fast?

 

I think you might want to tell your closest friends/family...People you trust before he gives his spin on things.

 

I know this transition is hard, but keep holding strong. You ARE doing what's best for you

[sandylee1]

Maybe rather than OW H coming to your apartment, you can get out of the house for a coffee or something. You can't do much in public. I know that feeling of wanting to and not wanting to at the same time.

 

If you can let one of your female friends know, perhaps they can come over and keep you company for a while.

 

Try and do things to distract yourself... Maybe visit family over the weekend.

[JRP]

STBXH... I'll have to get use to that. It's easier than just saying ex-husband. She didn't go. He wanted her to and she apparently wanted to but couldn't get time off work last minute like that. I'm sure she'll be waiting for him when he gets back... I told the other man not to tell me anything about them "for me", I don't want to know. If he wants to talk that's okay. That's the other issue, if we talk about it, because he's still in that situation, then I get information that I don't want to know. He wants to divorce her, their divorce will just be a lot more complicated than ours with a lot of fighting (over assets). I thought prenups would make a divorce cut and dried, I guess not.

 

It seems like an irrational fear, just worrying about him coming home. Hopefully I can calm down and get use to this.

 

He is probably nervous about coming home too. I mean, he probably doesn't know that I've moved out. He may not have known that I came home, he could have been expecting me to be on the plane. He probably doesn't know what to expect either. Maybe he has his own plans of moving out. I don't think he'd expect come home to all of my things gone. I feared that a lot, throughout our relationship/marriage but I don't think it's anything he expected.

 

I'm really hoping that he doesn't make this more difficult than it has to be. I don't want to fight with him, I just want to get it over with and move on. It feels so unnatural, to be fighting to end our marriage when for so long I wanted to fight for our marriage. He obviously has my cell phone number, email, facebook, etc. he could contact me that way and I just hope he doesn't. I don't want to have to change things to avoid him or have him say things to me like what he said when we were fighting.

 

We do have mutual friends and you're right, I don't want him going around telling a story that isn't true at all. I almost feel like I need to tell people before he does to get them on my side...

 

I have this stupid fear of going outside my apartment. Even when I knew my husband was on another continent I was still nervous about it. Now, I feel like I'll see him somewhere and I don't want to. It's highly unlikely, this is a large city and there are dozens and dozens of coffee shops, stores, etc. Whenever I do see him, I think it's going to be really uncomfortable. At some point I'm sure it will happen.

 

I do need to try and distract myself though...

[aileD]

I'm just catching up and just want to give you a hug

 

I think you are doing just fine. You're doing the right thing and you are taking the time to sort through how you feel.

 

I have a question that came to me when reading your post about the night the OM slept over. Please don't feel pressured to answer, you are not obligated to.

 

I am wondering if part of the reason you had such a strong desire for the OM was because your subconscious knows that he's incapable of sex? Like, it's somehow safe for you to have those feelings because you know it can't lead to sex....so it's safe.

 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Maybe it's how you rediscover yourself sexually. Maybe you need someone (doesn't have to be OM) who is "safe" in that sense where you can express desire without the expectation of sex.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm getting a little too psychological lol

 

 

At any rate, keep strong. You got this

[JRP]

I have a question that came to me when reading your post about the night the OM slept over. Please don't feel pressured to answer, you are not obligated to.

 

I am wondering if part of the reason you had such a strong desire for the OM was because your subconscious knows that he's incapable of sex? Like, it's somehow safe for you to have those feelings because you know it can't lead to sex....so it's safe.

 

No, you're right. I don't know if that is the only reason or not but he does feel safe to me because of that. I didn't feel like there was anything to worry about (which is kind of stupid because there are other kinds of sex that don't involve penetration). But yes, you're correct.

 

I'm not the best at explaining what goes through my mind... With him, I can enjoy being around a man (who I have an extremely strong attraction to) and not worry about sex. I can get as close to him as I want to without worrying about sex. Even if I (we) decided to go further and venture into touching or oral, I can do that without worrying about penetration or the pressure of it. And even if we venture into non-penetrative sex I don't have to worry about going too far (penetration) and freaking out. Penetration with him could be an option down the road if he decided he wanted to get the surgery that would allow him to get an erection (which he was going to). So it's like there is a permanent off switch on it, until I'd be ready for that.

[sandylee1]

Your STBXH will be home now I guess. If you don't want him to contact you on certain social media platforms, you can block him for now.

 

I do think your STBXH knew or at least guessed you'd flown home, because the OW did question her H on spending the night with you.

 

In a way I'm kind of glad he (your STBXH) thinks/knows that happened. In fact with the OW's H not responding to the question, that will be taken as a yes.

 

Stay strong. The split will be challenging to get through, but you've been through much worse and come out of the other side.