I'm having trouble with our open marriage

[aileD]

No, you're right. I don't know if that is the only reason or not but he does feel safe to me because of that. I didn't feel like there was anything to worry about (which is kind of stupid because there are other kinds of sex that don't involve penetration). But yes, you're correct.

 

I'm not the best at explaining what goes through my mind... With him, I can enjoy being around a man (who I have an extremely strong attraction to) and not worry about sex. I can get as close to him as I want to without worrying about sex. Even if I (we) decided to go further and venture into touching or oral, I can do that without worrying about penetration or the pressure of it. And even if we venture into non-penetrative sex I don't have to worry about going too far (penetration) and freaking out. Penetration with him could be an option down the road if he decided he wanted to get the surgery that would allow him to get an erection (which he was going to). So it's like there is a permanent off switch on it, until I'd be ready for that.

 

It totally get it.

 

It's very sad because I feel like this guy is exactly what you need to help you heal....but it's impossible because it comes with so much crap around it.

 

But there is good in everything. You are learning about yourself. Learning what you need. It's a step forward and that's good.

 

Praying for you.

[stillafool]

JRP, how are you doing? I hope you are okay.

[EZNona]

JRP,

 

Just checking in to see how you are doing. I hope no news is good news in this case. You're in our thoughts!

[spanz1]

what a rough situation. I truly hope you are doing well now!

Edited February 7, 2017 by spanz1

[JRP]

My STBXH has tried contacting me since he got home. He's called, texted, messaged me online and emailed. Mostly just asking where I am and to talk. I blocked his phone number and on social media. Last night (Valentines) he texted me from another number and said he knows I have been spending time with the OW's husband, what I have been doing with him, and that I'm a cheater. The way it was written makes me question if it was him writing it or not. He wrote out a letter that was given to my lawyer to give to me but I didn't read it. I don't want to be one of the women who go back to an abusive husband... I don't trust myself that I won't. The pull to just give up is so strong. It makes me nervous to go out and I've only left my apartment the bare minimum. Being at work is even more nerve racking and every time the door opens I get nervous that it's my husband who is going to walk in. He's been home for 2.5 weeks and it feels like months.

 

I don't know how people deal with this... How they leave a marriage, stay out of it and be happy... It wasn't even that long of a marriage it shouldn't be this hard. I'm constantly second guessing myself and making up excuses and lies in my head. Bringing myself back to reality is so hard.

 

My husband (or whoever) calling me a cheater shouldn't bother me but it does. Our marriage is done, and he wasn't Mr. Perfect. Maybe I care too much what other people think about me but it bothers me a lot. That is something that I have never been and don't want to associate with myself. I think it probably goes back to me being judged so harshly by people after having the boys who raped me convicted. I was, and still am, heavily judged on that by some people I went to school with.

 

I'm making sure that I don't make any contact with my husband and I don't respond to any contact. Most of the time I have my phone and computer off because I don't want to think about it, deal with it or see anything to remind me of it. I have talked to a couple of my close friends about it, so they know what is going on. I've been trying to spend time with them but they don't really know how to act and to be honest sometimes say or do things to make it worse. I wouldn't know what to do either... I don't know what to do.

 

The OW's H stayed here with me most of last week. It made me feel better. I really like having someone here who doesn't make it worse and understands it. I don't want to lean on him too much. I'm scared to get attached or use to having him around. When he's gone I want him to come back, like right now. Yesterday, on Valentine's, he came over and brought flowers, made dinner, put candles out when we ate, spent the whole night just talking. He never expects, asks or hints for anything. There is no pressure for anything, ever. If we do anything it's because I initiated it totally on my own, not because he wanted to. It's refreshing, but it makes me nervous because I can't get attached. Then I go back to feel like a terrible person for having him in my life at all, because of the cheating accusations and also because he's someones husband.

 

I wish I could just fast forward through this whole part.

[SeenNotHeard]

JRP thanks for coming back and letting us know how you are managing during this overwhelming difficult time. I've followed your posting journey and can't fathom all the layers of your current existence. I say existence because you are not in a happy place in your life, obviously. You seem determined to push through because healing and moving on is a priority. Keep moving, don't give up.

[anna121]

I too am glad you have come back and updated us. I am sorry you are going through this.

 

I have to be honest - I think it is extremely unwise to lean on OWH to this extent. I'm not at all saying to cut off contact but this is a complicated situation and your growing emotional attachment to him is dangerous to you. I think you should institute some boundaries. Would you have a friend over at your place this much? Maybe use that as a guide.

 

JMHO.

[jesse88]

The OW's H stayed here with me most of last week. It made me feel better. I really like having someone here who doesn't make it worse and understands it. I don't want to lean on him too much. I'm scared to get attached or use to having him around. When he's gone I want him to come back, like right now. Yesterday, on Valentine's, he came over and brought flowers, made dinner, put candles out when we ate, spent the whole night just talking. He never expects, asks or hints for anything. There is no pressure for anything, ever. If we do anything it's because I initiated it totally on my own, not because he wanted to. It's refreshing, but it makes me nervous because I can't get attached. Then I go back to feel like a terrible person for having him in my life at all, because of the cheating accusations and also because he's someones husband.

 

If you are having these feelings that it's too soon to be with another man and that you are cheating on your husband, maybe you should listen to them. You don't need to jump into another relationship only weeks before ending your marriage. Moving a new man into your home so soon and being intimate with him isn't healthy. Not only is to too soon, he's a married man. If you aren't careful you are going to end up posting in the OW/OM section. You are getting too attached to a man you can never fully have. Remember, if he can cheat on his wife with you then he can cheat on you with another woman.

 

These feelings are not going to help you through this process. Make sure you continue NC with your husband.

Edited February 16, 2017 by jesse88

[elaine567]

If you are having these feelings that it's too soon to be with another man and that you are cheating on your husband, maybe you should listen to them. You don't need to jump into another relationship only weeks before ending your marriage. Moving a new man into your home so soon and being intimate with him isn't healthy. Not only is to too soon, he's a married man. If you aren't careful you are going to end up posting in the OW/OM section. You are getting too attached to a man you can never fully have. Remember, if he can cheat on his wife with you then he can cheat on you with another woman.

 

These feelings are not going to help you through this process. Make sure you continue NC with your husband.

 

Read the whole thread - its complicated.

[jesse88]

Read the whole thread - its complicated.

 

She was married to a man whom she couldn't be intimate with due to being raped. So that man opened the marriage and that included having sex with a woman who because like a GF to him. That woman has a husband, who OP has now moved into her home and is being intimate with. Each of the spouses have more in common with the "other" partner.

 

I've got the gist of it. It's still too soon to be jumping to another man because she is afraid of losing him or being alone. He is essentially living with her, based on her last post, and they are getting intimate.

 

How is this a good thing? How will it end positively for her? The man is married, if he didn't want to be married - he wouldn't be. She is going from one bad relationship to another, then it will be another, and another.

[EZNona]

Remember, if he can cheat on his wife with you then he can cheat on you with another woman.

 

I think statements like these are out of place here. The OW's husband has an open marriage even though for the most part he has chosen not to act on it, but he is still behaving within the rules of his and the OW's rules of engagement.

 

In response to JRP's post. There is no part of your story where I can conclude that you are a "cheater". You have watched your STBXH have sexual relations within your rules for quite some time now. And now he has fallen in love with another woman and broken the rules of engagement that completely falls into the category of cheating/having an affair. He has also violated you in a sexual/physical sense.

 

You have already left the marital home and began the process of divorce. The marriage has already been dissolved and it's just a matter of the paperwork making it 100% legal. At this point, I consider you free to do and be with whom you please (not considering the debate whether you should).

 

I won't say if it's in your best interest or not to spend time with the OW's husband as I'm unsure myself how you should play this part. On one hand, it has the potential to make things even more complicated if you decide further down the road that you want something more with him and he never leaves his wife. While on the other hand, his presence is enabling you to heal at a much faster rate and gives you a more open mind to seeing that you can experience intimacy again with a man that you can fully trust. He is currently able to provide support and understanding which it appears you need right now.

 

I think you should have an exit plan for yourself. Meaning if things start to look like they will go down a path that will lead you to a world of hurt, then have the strength (as you've shown you do have) to abort ASAP.

 

It's only been less than 3 weeks since all this has gone down, so really not that much time has passed. I think in due time you will know exactly what you need to do for yourself. You have shown tremendous strength and maintaining complete NC with the Ex is pretty impressive, so I have no doubt you will make the right decisions for yourself in the long run.

[jesse88]

I think statements like these are out of place here. The OW's husband has an open marriage even though for the most part he has chosen not to act on it, but he is still behaving within the rules of his and the OW's rules of engagement.

 

The OP is trading one man who believes in open marriages for another with the same belief/opinion. That's a problem here. It seems like a lot of people here are encouraging this relationship which baffles me. There is nothing healthy about it. My impression is that he is not as good of a man as he is made out to be here. We don't know if he's following the rules of his open marriage. What spouse, open marriage or not, would be ok with their husband living with another woman for a week? That is beyond an open marriage, just as OP's husband did.

[BettyDraper]

Ordinarily, I would say that you're having an emotional affair. However, your situation is very unusual and it's very rich for your STBXH to call YOU a cheater after what he's done. It's clear that he wanted you to silently tolerate his affair and follow his hypocritical rules for whom you can communicate with. He doesn't get to have an opinion after falling in love with the OW. He's just upset because he can no longer control you or his OW's husband.

 

You are simply accepting comfort from a friend who is uniquely sympathetic to your situation. Quite frankly, I think you deserve to do that after the ordeal you've been through.

[BaileyB]

I'm also glad that you returned to share the update.

 

I'm so sorry that you are having such a difficult time, although it's not unexpected. Separation and divorce are difficult at the best of times, and this situation is obviously more complicated. I'm sorry to hear that your husband is making things more difficult for you. I hope you are able to stay strong so that eventually, he will leave you alone. What he is doing to you now is not fair.

 

I'm also very concerned that your growing relationship/dependence on the OM is not healthy. I would encourage you to find your support in other ways - from friends/family and/or a counsellor. I can absolutely appreciate and understand why you would want to lean on this OM, but to be honest... you have never had the opportunity to learn what it is to have a healthy relationship with a man... Even your first boyfriend, was definitely not a healthy relationship. It feels now, reading your post, that you are jumping from one unhealthy relationship to another. I hope that in the coming months and years, you are able to heal the things that you need to heal for yourself - because this, is the most important thing for your future health and happiness. Then, you can begin to work on developing a healthy relationship with a man (if you chose). Until you do this work, I just can't help but worry that any future relationship with a man will not be a healthy relationship. And, you definitely deserve to have a healthy and loving relationship with a man, if you chose.

 

Keep posting! We all wish you well.

Edited February 16, 2017 by BaileyB

[JRP]

I too am glad you have come back and updated us. I am sorry you are going through this.

 

I have to be honest - I think it is extremely unwise to lean on OWH to this extent. I'm not at all saying to cut off contact but this is a complicated situation and your growing emotional attachment to him is dangerous to you. I think you should institute some boundaries. Would you have a friend over at your place this much? Maybe use that as a guide.

 

JMHO.

 

I'm already attached. I was upset, he was there and it was an immediate attachment.

 

I didn't want to mention anything about him in my last post because I didn't want people to comment on it. Which shows that I know it is wrong, but I don't want to put an end to it. I hate when he leaves and I hate even more that he is going home to his wife. I have turned into the person who has asked him not to touch her or kiss her, which he doesn't. When he isn't here I constantly wonder what he's doing. His lawyer recommended that he doesn't stay out of the house for extended periods of time. Really, it's no different than how I felt with my husband but I'm not making that connection. It's like I'm ignoring the similarity of the feelings. He's divorcing his wife. He has been dealing with lawyers this week. He wanted her to initiate the divorce because of the setup of their prenup but he's done waiting now. I'm trying to keep his issues and my issues separate, we try not to talk about them unless we have to.

 

I'm trying not to let myself get too attached. Right now if he decided he wanted to cut off contact it would hurt but not in the same way that this divorce is hurting. More just confirming my belief that someone wouldn't want to be with me. The more attached I get to him and the more I "do" with him the more it would hurt. I know that I should keep the relationship simply platonic and just be friends but it's so hard to do that...

 

There is this fine line between not wanting to rush going further with him and not wanting to wait and drag it out so long that the pressure/buildup overwhelms me and I end up where I am now, not being able to do anything. I wish I met him first... and I know that's a bad thing to think.

 

I feel like if he wasn't in my life I wouldn't be able to stay away from my husband or keep no contact. It's really hard not to contact him or look at his social media and when I want to do those things I transfer my thoughts to Owen and it helps me. He was here when I got the text from my husband saying I'm cheating and he told me not to respond and just leave it be. I always have this guilt hanging over my head that I'm doing something wrong. I haven't "done anything" with him. But I always think about it. He has stayed overnight with me.

 

It's really difficult not to contact my husband and talk to him. Sometimes I just want to talk it out, sometimes I want to tell him to just go away. I don't know how to be alone I guess...

[anna121]

I think I understand, JRP. I say "think" because the sitch is so extraordinary.

 

Even if both divorces go through in a record amount of time, chances are that one or both of you will have significant emotional baggage, and damage, that will sabotage any fledgling relationship.

 

It's in that spirit that I'm urging you to find other sources of support. That does not mean kicking him out of your life. I do get that being with him is insulation against weakening your resolve against your H. Heck, that is probably a good thing.

 

"Not knowing how to be alone" is a key insight. You need to develop that ability. The sooner the better. Or you will continue to be vulnerable to really harmful situations.

[BaileyB]

 

"Not knowing how to be alone" is a key insight. You need to develop that ability. The sooner the better. Or you will continue to be vulnerable to really harmful situations.

 

This!! Exactly this.

 

It's impossible to have a healthy relationship with a man, if you don't have your own house in order. To do this, you have to be secure in who you are and have the ability to care for yourself. Until you can stand on your own, you will continue to form unhealthy attachments and this will be very harmful.

 

It starts and ends with you... Only when you are healthy and happy, can you begin to share your life in a healthy way with another person...

Edited February 16, 2017 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

I'm already attached. I was upset, he was there and it was an immediate attachment.

 

I didn't want to mention anything about him in my last post because I didn't want people to comment on it. Which shows that I know it is wrong, but I don't want to put an end to it. I hate when he leaves and I hate even more that he is going home to his wife. When he isn't here I constantly wonder what he's doing.

 

This tells you right there, you know that this is not a healthy attachment. He is simply your new coping strategy - he is providing a distraction and keeping you company right now. I would suggest that there are other people and other ways to do this that will be more healthy and supportive for you. More importantly, he is buffering the pain of the divorce and the anxiety you feel about moving forward on your own. But obviously, this is an unhealthy coping strategy if you are simply moving from a relationship with one man to another.

 

PLEASE, find a good counsellor when you are ready. If you could find someone to talk with, someone that you trust, they can help you to do the work you need to do to get healthy. You can only run from your feelings for so long before they will eventually catch up to you. You either do the work now, or later...

 

Hugs to you. I'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time. It will get better though... It will get easier.

Edited February 16, 2017 by BaileyB

[jesse88]

You are having a rebound relationship with the OWH and rebound relationships are almost always doomed. He may be doing the same with you. Two people who have just barely started the divorce process are not prime candidates for a relationship. It will fizzle out faster than it started.

 

What then? You don't know how to cope on your own. You will be back at square one dealing with double the loss.

 

What if you do get intimate with him? You are heading in that direction. Having him sleep over at your house isn't always going to be so innocent. You said multiple times that you want to go further with him so it's bound to happen at some point. How are you going to handle it if you finally have sex with someone (him) and he doesn't leave his wife or leaves you? I suspect it will be a lot harder for you. I wouldn't recommend getting involved this early into your separation and especially with him.

[JRP]

Neither of our divorces are going to be easy. His is a lot more complicated than mine because there are significant assets that are not going to be agreed on and the circumstances were not covered by the prenup. The lawyer that he hired said he's had similar cases last 2 years or more because of the constant back and forth. My husband still wants an annulment which slows down the process. It might not even be done by the end of the year. It's a mess...

 

My feelings on wanting to be more intimate with him are all over the place. On one hand I do want to and it's constantly on the back of my mind. On the other hand, I don't want to get hurt and I don't want it to get messy. He's a really good guy and he wouldn't purposely hurt me, but if he decided to stop the divorce process after we had an intimate relationship yeah that would be hard.

 

Right now, I don't see myself with him in the future. Not because I don't want to. I know the chance of anything long term with him is slim to none. There is too much crap surrounding it. But I also can't see myself without him right now. He helps me, a lot, and I don't want to let that go. I also don't want to lean on him totally. I want him to just be there, not be my entire support system. Which is why I've tried to talk to friends and be around friends more but I seem to get more down when I'm around them. None of my friends have gone through this.

 

I want to open my support system to more than just him. And find a counsellor who can help with this specifically.

 

He is a distraction and I say he makes it easier for me to deal with this, but maybe he prevents me from having to deal with it. I am worried that if he decides to end contact the floodgates will open to a ton of unresolved problems that I "used" him to forget.

 

This weekend him and I are supposed to be going away together. To get away for a little bit. I was so sure of it and excited for it until I posted this, which is why I didn't want to... I like my bubble. We planned to drive to ski resort tomorrow and stay the weekend. Get out of this city, get outside and get our minds off the **** going on here. I still want to go, but there is this huge gloomy cloud over it now telling me it's a bad idea. But is that just because I'm letting outside opinions change my mind... I don't know. It doesn't feel as innocent as having him come over here or going out for coffee together.

 

I don't know if I don't know how to be alone, or if I don't want to be alone.

[BaileyB]

Personally, I think it's both. You don't know how and you don't want to be alone.

 

You do what you have to do to cope, that's ok. But just be aware, you can't distract yourself from dealing with your feelings or dealing with the situation forever. At some point, you will have to face it.

 

You married very young, and relatively quickly after experiencing a significant trauma. Now, your marriage has ended (another trauma and significant loss). And with the end of your marriage, you are now quickly forming another attachment to the OM. Perhaps, with all of these decisions and all of these relationships, you are putting bandaid on bandaid on bandaid. At some point, you are going to need to pull those bandaids off and deal with the problem because this is not sustainable... And it keeps you from finding true peace and happiness in your life.

 

Personally, I don't think you have any business considering a relationship - especially a sexual relationship - with this man or anyone else at this time. What you have with this man is definitely a rebound relationship. I honestly can't even begin to understand why you would consider having a sexual relationship with this, or any man, at this time. The word unhealthy doesn't even begin to describe that decision.

 

After reading your story, I'm struck by the difficulties you've had in creating healthy boundaries in relationships. If I'm remembering correctly, you had mentioned that with the boyfriend who raped you, that he raped you repeatedly while you were dating. This = no healthy boundaries. Then, you married a man who cheated on you and called it an "open marriage." This = no healthy boundaries. And now, you are spending time with a man who is married to the woman your husband cheated with, and you are considering a sexual relationship with this man. This = no healthy boundaries. Do you see ... because you don't want to be alone, you continue to form relationships with men when you really don't know what it is to have healthy boundaries in a relationship. A counsellor will help you develop these skills. But, until you learn more about how to establish healthy boundaries in a relationship, you really put yourself at risk if you form another relationship... especially if it becomes a sexual relationship.

 

Please, take care and find some support. I'm glad to hear that you are considering counselling. Now is the time to practice healthy self care and find a good counsellor. You need to develop healthy coping skills. Your best path at this point is probably alone - not in a tangled, messy, sexual relationship with another man who is not really a healthy or available partner for you right now.

 

Please take care, your story hurts my heart...

Edited February 17, 2017 by BaileyB

[JRP]

Part of the reason I want to (attempt) a sexual relationship with him is because I feel like there is a higher possibility of it working right now. When I'm vulnerable and while he feels so perfect. I just want to get it over with in hopes that it would be easier later. I'm also scared that the inner feelings of physically wanting him will fade and I won't feel that again, like with my husband. There is a part of me that thinks if I can have some sort of physical intimacy with him I'll "get over" my issues and be able to do it with anyone else.

 

You're right that I jump from man to man. I don't want to be alone. It confirms the thoughts in my head that I'll always be alone. It's so hard to let go of him when he feels so perfect for me. I wish I would have been with him first rather than my husband. I don't know how to shut him out of my life and be walking away from everything. Right now he is like a bumper to soften the blow of the divorce. Once he's out of the picture I don't have that anymore.

 

I don't know what a normal relationship is like because I have never had one. I'm use to dysfunctional relationships and this is no different.

 

I need to find a therapist that can help with this. It's scary because it means going back to the root of the problem, which I don't want to do. I've had a lot therapy for it but some issues, like this, haven't been touched. I hate going back to that point in my life. That first relationship I had, I probably would have stayed in had I not gotten pregnant, that was the main reason I told my family. I can't say for sure, because the end changed drastically but I have a suspicion.

[BaileyB]

JRP,

 

I can certainly appreciate what you are thinking, but I would respectfully suggest that having a sexual relationship at this time when you are vulnerable could only add to your sexual trauma. Like a person who sprains their ankle, if you continue to walk on it hoping that you can "walk it off," you will only cause more damage when what you need to do to heal your ankle is rest.

 

In my very humble opinion, for anyone (particularly someone with a past history of sexual abuse) to have sex when they are "vulnerable" and because "you want to get it over with" or because "it will be easier later" is again, not a very healthy thing to do. If it's meant to be, it will happen for you later when you are not in such a vulnerable place.

 

I can only imagine how intimidating it is to find a therapist and begin to work through some of these feelings. You are a brave woman for doing it - but it's something you have to do if you want to heal your past and move forward to have a happy future. You can be alone - this is where you will find yourself. And just because you don't have a man in your life, doesn't mean that you will be alone forever. Again, you are so young... You have no idea what the future will bring for you. Have faith, life is a journey and you are actually only starting this journey now...

 

I hope that counselling is helpful for you. I wish you well, please let us know how you are doing. We all care for you and want to see you well.

Edited February 17, 2017 by BaileyB

[JRP]

It's stupid because I know it's not smart and that I'll get hurt but I still want to do it. Not to mention I'll feel even worse for doing anything with another man while I'm married and wouldn't with my husband... I don't have the desire to have sex with a wide variety of men, I just want to be able to do it with one. I'd be happy having sex with just one guy that I end up with. He never pushes, at all. He doesn't even hint at it. Sometimes I wish he would so that I could just go along with it. It still feels like it would be easier with him because it can't go "all the way". I just want it over with. Get the huge obstacle out of the way. Even if I threw myself at him I don't think he'd take me up on that offer. He said not to rush anything and when he stayed over sometimes he opted to sleep alone when he felt like he needed to.

 

I don't want to be told all the things I'm doing wrong and how all of this is my fault. I knew I never should have married my husband, or even dated him. That makes me want to avoid therapy.

 

My husband sent an email this morning and he said that he wants to meet for coffee and talk, and sort out the divorce on our own, and clear things up. There is a huge part of me that wants to do it. Maybe he'd agree to an uncontested divorce rather than annulment and it would go by faster. I don't want him to try and talk me out of the divorce, though... I don't know if he could. My lawyer said any meeting between me and him needs to be in front of lawyers but sometimes I just want to go back to the familiarity of just talking to him.

[anna121]

1. Please listen to your lawyer. You are in a very bad state to see your husband. At any rate, do not see your husband alone.

 

2. A therapist worth his or her salt is not going to tell you everything is your fault. Where are you getting this from? A therapist will help you sort out some important things that clearly have been obstacles to your leading a happy life.

 

3. Part of my caution is that if you get sexually involved with OWH NOW, it is almost guaranteed to end badly or, at least, not give you what you need. Personally, I can sort of understand your feelings about sexual contact. But I agree with Bailey that it likely would do more harm. That is why I am simply suggesting that you treat him less like a romantic partner right now and more like a good friend.

 

4. As you might expect, I think it would better not to go away for the weekend, but I can understand the temptation. If you do it, do yourself a favour and get separate rooms. That's alot of pressure/intimacy and one or both of you will appreciate having the option.

 

5. If the situation with OWH continues in this vein, at some point you are going to have to talk about these feelings. That may not go well. Another reason for caution.