I'm having trouble with our open marriage

[stillafool]

OP you have to decide if you are willing to spend the rest of your life in fear of losing your husband. For me, I think I would walk away.

[BaileyB]

I would also walk away. I would rather try to find happiness on my own than constantly feel broken hearted knowing who he is with and what they are doing. I just couldn't live my life wondering whether he loves this other woman and if/when he will leave me... That to me, would make me miserable and very, very depressed.

[aileD]

Problem is she will never have a healthy relationship if she can't be intimate.

 

I agree he's getting too close to this woman. He needs to cut it off with her and you need to tell him to

[elaine567]

I agree he's getting too close to this woman. He needs to cut it off with her and you need to tell him to

 

He cuts this one off, only for her to replaced by another, another that may even more threat to the OP's marriage.

There is no "good" answer here.

[stillafool]

OP, also all of your worrying is not good for your emotional nor physical health. You can't live in constant fear. What do your parents say about this?

[aileD]

He cuts this one off, only for her to replaced by another, another that may even more threat to the OP's marriage.

There is no "good" answer here.

 

I agree but this is the life they're choosing to live.

[aileD]

OP. I have to say this.

 

You can get through this. You are selling yourself too short. You do not have to be held hostage by the trauma that was inflicted on you.

 

Don't give up. I am a sexual assault survivor too (at 13) and now at 41 I have a very healthy sex life. It is not impossible.

 

You are 24 years old. This doesn't have to be your life. If thereapt isn't working find a new therapist or a new way of doing therapy. Don't give up on yourself .

 

You have a mental block because of your trauma. There are ways to learn how to not let that mental block happen. To learn to associate your body and its natural responses and desires as good and not hurtful.

 

Don't give up on yourself. This is no way to live. Don't let those men win.

[BaileyB]

OP. I have to say this.

 

You can get through this. You are selling yourself too short. You do not have to be held hostage by the trauma that was inflicted on you.

 

Don't give up. I am a sexual assault survivor too (at 13) and now at 41 I have a very healthy sex life. It is not impossible.

 

You are 24 years old. This doesn't have to be your life. If thereapt isn't working find a new therapist or a new way of doing therapy. Don't give up on yourself .

 

You have a mental block because of your trauma. There are ways to learn how to not let that mental block happen. To learn to associate your body and its natural responses and desires as good and not hurtful.

 

Don't give up on yourself. This is no way to live. Don't let those men win.

 

 

Well said. Not to minimize your trauma in any way OP, but this is very true.

 

And if I may, it is so worth the effort to be able to share a loving, intimate relationship with a man. Unfortunately, you have had a significant trauma so you don't know this now. But, I hope, someday you will experience this kind of intimacy and connection... Best wishes to you.

[JRP]

Mumbles: Thank you for your perspective, you are correct that people who haven't be in an open relationship can't always understand them. It's not somewhere that I saw myself being, but it's the best solution that I have right now.

 

You are right that there is a lot of jealousy. I'm drowning in jealousy. In the beginning I didn't know anything and thought that would be best. I didn't want to know when he was going to do it, or any other details. Every time he was out of the house I was worried. I wondered where he was, what he was doing, who he was doing it with. It ate away at me, I couldn't handle it. We switched so that I'd know when to eliminate that fear the the unknown. It helped in a way, I stopped wondering all the time. But when I knew he was seeing someone I was upset. I couldn't think of anything other than "right now my husband is with another woman". I'm at home alone while he's being as intimate as you can possibly be with a someone else. That should be me - but it's not. The more pressure I feel the farther I get from being able to do it.

 

I have thought that it would be easier if he saw professionals instead, it's legal where we live. It's not something that he has any interest in. At all. He thinks it's disgusting, he doesn't want to support that industry and he needs the emotion that goes along with sex. I've always been worried about him having sex with a bunch of random people, because of STD's mainly but also pregnancies or otherwise crazy women.

 

The longer my husband goes without having sex with me, the more accustomed he becomes to it. If it took years and years to have sex with him, it's no where in the foreseeable future, I don't know if he'd even want to or be able to. When we first met my husband wanted kids, badly, and wanted 3-4 of them. They were always a priority for him. As he got to know me he changed that stance to say it didn't matter either way, even though that wasn't true. Now he says he doesn't want kids, because he got use to the idea of not having them. I feel like I'm ruining him. He use to believe in monogamy, but I ruined that too.

 

BettyDraper: Honestly, I don't believe that my husband enjoys this. I'm sure for some men (and women) being able to get action on the side is a dream come true. Those men are most likely also having sex with their wife. My husband wants to have sex with me. Part of him feels like I don't love him enough or like him enough to have sex. Or that I don't trust him enough, or that I won't try hard enough for him. He doesn't talk about it a lot, but I know it affects him. He doesn't want my only sexual experiences to be rape. He doesn't want me to always be afraid of sex. He doesn't want the rapists to control my life. He doesn't want rapists to be the last people inside me (his words on that one, took me by surprise). He wants me to enjoy sex and the bond it can have. It's not the ideal situation for him.

 

He's not perfect, no one is, but he isn't cake eating. I wouldn't call him emotionally abusive, oblivious maybe, but he's isn't abusive... I don't think he should be able to say who I can and cannot talk to or have a friendship with. That isn't fair but I don't want to fight him on it. He was really uncomfortable with it.

 

I don't feel like I have a choice but to go with it. If I want to be with him, I have to go along with an open marriage. If it wasn't him, it would be someone else. He deals with a lot too. I feel like it's what I have to accept if I want to be with someone.

 

Mumbles: My husband doesn't seem to realize the double standard. He doesn't want me to be friends with the OW's husband because of the same feelings I have for OW but have to deal with. He doesn't get it.

 

The marriage is only open on his side. I have no desire to be intimate with anyone so there was no need to have a fully open marriage. I don't think that my husband would be ok with me actually seeing another man. I actually know that he wouldn't be ok with it. If we were having sex, he wouldn't want an open marriage. Heck, if we were just doing oral or touching he wouldn't want an open marriage.

 

My husband is also very jealous that the OW's husband could in some way be closer to me. He doesn't want a relationship forming. And trust me, I get it. Boy do I get it. He doesn't understand the double standard. He hasn't had to deal with those same feelings before, it's new to him.

 

Sometimes my husband is only gone for 30 minutes, other times he has been gone for 4 hours. On one occasion he stayed with her overnight. He said they had sex, then cuddled after and fell asleep accidentally. I sat up all night worrying and didn't think he was going to come back. He apologized profusely and has made sure that it doesn't happen again but it still bothers me. It feels more than "just sex" it feels like a relationship between them. And if that's the case, eventually she will win.

 

The odd time that I have been in the same room as my husband, OW, and her husband, I feel like the odd one out. Like I'm a 3rd wheel in my marriage. I can tell that my husband is trying to hold back but it just naturally happens. Her husband has said the same thing to me.

 

If I can trust him to have sex with other women and still come back to me, he should trust me to talk to and spend time with a man in my same situation. To be perfectly honest, I feel like my husband wouldn't care as much if the OW's husband wasn't as attractive. He has said "he's way too attractive" and "that man is too good looking" too many times, he's really insecure about it.

 

aileD: (I guess I should have been seeing it as a red flag) My husband and I had an agreement that if I was uncomfortable with someone it would stop. For quite a while he was going back and forth between 2 women and I got uncomfortable for a few reasons. That's when he switched to this woman. I'm uncomfortable with her, more their relationship than her, and he knows that. He hasn't taken the initiative to switch again. There is a reason for that... As soon as he said he was uncomfortable with her husband I "ended it", not that there was really much to end. It should go both ways.

 

The problem is that it never ends. There is always going to be another OW. I can't just veto them all. Unless can do a 180 and start being intimate with my husband it will never get better.

 

stillafool: I don't want to spend the rest of my life without him. I know that it's not healthy always being stressed, worried and upset. I try to forget about it when my husband is home and just be with him. Enjoy him while I get him. My family is unaware of intricacies of my marriage.

 

Feeling like this and dealing with this sucks. Making the decision to be alone for the rest of my life doesn't feel much better. At least right now I have someone who wants to be with me and will be with me, I just don't get all of him. Something is better than nothing...

[stillafool]

Well it's pretty clear that you are going to stay no matter what so let me ask you, what do you want from LoveShack?

[BaileyB]

It just seems that you are so resigned.

 

It breaks my heart that you feel that one moment in time, and I understand that it was horribly traumatic, can affect your life's destiny.

 

You are so young and you have so much life ahead of you. You are correct, if not this woman, it will be another. And, if your husband wants kids, it will be difficult as time progresses for him to give up that dream.

 

Please continue with your therapy. Don't give up. You create your future, not the men who hurt you and made you afraid.

 

You deserve more than this. I hope you get there someday...

[Springsummer]

Seems your 'asexuality' is largely emotional. Maybe you take a break from relationship and just be alone for a few years, your sexuality will come back?

[elaine567]

On another thread a poster wrote

 

Are you going to like who you have to turn into in order to keep this guy in your bed?

 

 

Here

Are you really going to like who you have to turn into to keep this guy in your life?

 

[GunslingerRoland]

From what it sounds like you are either going to have to let your marriage go or learn how to separate the idea of sex and marriage in your brain to the point where you aren't constantly in pain for what your husband is doing.

[usa1ah]

JRP, you need to talk with your husband and explain your needs.

 

You are letting him get his needs taken care of.

 

You need to tell him to trust you like you are trusting him and allow you to have the OW's husband as a friend. Or to stop seeing her twice a week and go back to every other week. Explain that he knows what you are dealing with and that it helps with the "pain" you feel when he is with her.

 

You need to stand up for your emotional needs just like he stood up for his physical needs.

 

You need to do this.

 

Also, is it trusting someone not to hurt you during sex or does your mind flash back to what happened?

 

One thing up might try. Start picturing yourself being with your husband each day. Start dwelling on it a little more each day. Remember that your husband loves and cares for you during this. Take it slow and focus on your love for him. You have to make a effort a little bit each day. See if it starts givivng you a desire for him. Give it time. Are you willing to fight for you husband.

 

I don't know what you have tried but never give up on getting yourself back. You sound as if you have excepted defeat and just going with it. Fight back. Never give up. I know I have no idea of the pain and horror you went through, but don't let it defeat you. Never give up. You are stronger then you think. Start believing in yourself.

[BaileyB]

We can't even begin to appreciate what you have experienced, but never give up on yourself. You are too young to feel like your fate in life is already decided. You will change and grow so much in the coming years... You just never know what life will bring for you. There is always hope. Don't ever give up!

[JRP]

Well it's pretty clear that you are going to stay no matter what so let me ask you, what do you want from LoveShack?

 

I don't know... Somewhere to vent, or think. To be told enough times that I shouldn't be with him. At my core I know I shouldn't be with him. The awareness of that isn't always present. I don't want a divorce, sometimes I think I'm more afraid of that than actually leaving. I don't want to lose him, but how much of a marriage is it really... I mean, where we live my husband could ask for an annulment because the marriage hasn't been consummated. Then it all just disappears like it never happened. A divorce is easier, and there is no legal advantage to an annulment, but he could have our marriage just... erased.

 

It just seems that you are so resigned.

 

It breaks my heart that you feel that one moment in time, and I understand that it was horribly traumatic, can affect your life's destiny.

 

You are so young and you have so much life ahead of you. You are correct, if not this woman, it will be another. And, if your husband wants kids, it will be difficult as time progresses for him to give up that dream.

 

Please continue with your therapy. Don't give up. You create your future, not the men who hurt you and made you afraid.

 

You deserve more than this. I hope you get there someday...

 

I have, I've given up. I feel like my options are accept this kind of relationship as all I can have, or be 100% alone and give up on the idea of being with someone. My version of alone isn't the same as someone else's. I know people who are single and happy, but they also have intimacy/contact with other people via hooking up, FWB, etc. They aren't totally alone, just rotting away.

 

I hope I get there someday too. Somehow I don't think that will be with my husband by my side.

 

Seems your 'asexuality' is largely emotional. Maybe you take a break from relationship and just be alone for a few years, your sexuality will come back?

 

If we want to get technical, I'm not asexual but it is the easiest way to describe it. According to 3 therapists I've seen you aren't technically asexual if there is an underlying reason for the change. I use to be sexually attracted to men, I use to have desires to have sex, those feelings will resurface from time to time (rarely, but they do). But it's so far repressed that it's like my sexuality is just gone. It's there, somewhere, but buried deep. You could put the sexiest man on this planet in front of me and I'd find him attractive but sex wouldn't be on my mind at all. Could that part of me come back? Maybe.

 

Asexual people can have sex. They aren't terrified of it and don't think it's disgusting, they could just take it or leave it. It's tolerable, not enjoyable. For me, it's not tolerable it's terrifying (at least the thought of it). I've never had consensual sex. All I know is that it's scary, it hurts, I have no control, my voice doesn't matter. I can be told over and over that consensual sex isn't like that, and I can tell it to myself, but that way of thinking is so engrained that it's not going anywhere.

 

I honestly think if it had just been my ex who raped me, if drugs or other people where never involved, I could have recovered and could have gone to have a normal life. From the outside my life seems normal, no one knows unless they have been told. Being drugged so that I was fully conscious but unable to move or speak, then raped my multiple males... I can't go back there. Every time sex crosses my mind that's where I go. To when I felt beyond helpless.

 

I've tried to take steps to work through it. No matter how small I it ends with me having a panic attack and a few times having ended up in the hospital because after a couple hours I still couldn't calm down, couldn't breathe and heart was at 190-200bpm.

 

It's hard to try and separate sex and marriage. You're raised to know that they go together, so it's engrained in me. But more, when I'm actively trying to get to the point of being able to be sexual I can't look at sex as "just sex". They completely go against each other.

[usa1ah]

It really hurts to read your post dear girl.

[BaileyB]

It does really hurt to read your post, dear girl. If we could take your fear and pain away, we surely would. You should not have to carry this burden.

 

All we can say is, don't lose hope. Life will move you in ways that you can't even imagine at your young age... Perhaps, your husband is with you for the beginning of this journey and you will meet another man who will enter your heart and calm your fears in a few years... Or maybe you will find peace and healing on your own. You just don't know now. But, please don't lose hope.

 

Continue with counselling as you can. If you need a break, take a break. And when you are stronger, go back and find someone else... You will change and you will look at things differently as you age.

 

God bless. You are a brave and strong woman. and you are welcome to share your feelings here anytime.

Edited January 13, 2017 by BaileyB

[GCar]

TBH, you and the OW should swap spouses all together. Her husband can't have sex (and you are attracted to him), you don't want to have sex. Your husband wants to have sex, she wants to have sex. Go your separate ways, with each other's spouse. It's only a matter of time until it happens.

[sandylee1]

TBH, you and the OW should swap spouses all together. Her husband can't have sex (and you are attracted to him), you don't want to have sex. Your husband wants to have sex, she wants to have sex. Go your separate ways, with each other's spouse. It's only a matter of time until it happens.

 

The OPs husband has stopped her talking to the OM, so there'll be no spouse swapping.

 

It's a horrible situation OP. I think rapists should be castrated. They violated you in the worse way and after jail, they get on with their lives .... While you have had to settle for no children and a forced open marriage. It's not fair at all.

 

I will say another thing though. Your husband initially wanted kids, but was he wasn't prepared to

consider IVF? Why?

 

I wonder whether your husband thinks this is sustainable long term. He must think about it.

 

Asides from saying I would have sought a partner who couldn't have sex either, I'd definitely look at finding a support group specific to your situation.

 

You need people or someone who knows how it feels.

 

I can't recall if you mentioned .... are you able to kiss your husband intimately? I recall you couldn't cope with an erect penis, but is it also difficult for you to be touched even lightly by him in that area? Or could you ever envisage receiving oral sex?

 

I'm just throwing things out there .... in hindsight perhaps you both should have dated longer and seen if this could be worked through, before committing to marriage .... you were both young enough, so there was no rush.

 

Do you think there was an attraction from the OWs husband to you?

[Mumbles]

You appear to have missed the whole circumstances behind this "open" arrangement.

The OP cannot have sex due to a traumatic experience for which she has gone through years of counselling none of which has helped.

 

I got that, I understood from the OP.

 

 

This is no ordinary open marriage this is a one sided "forced" open marriage. The OP doesn't want an open marriage, she agrees only to keep her husband.

 

You are right to call me out here. I must have misunderstood the nature of the 'open'. Although I fully understand how they got here and why the marriage must be open, I didn't fully realise that it was by agreement one-sided. I assumed that it was bilaterally open but that the OP was choosing, through her past trauma, not to pursue her side of that deal in a physical sense.

 

 

Her husband says he needs intimacy to feel loved and needed, she cannot give him that.

That is why this is unsustainable as the "bond" that keeps a couple together despite sampling other delights in an open marriage, is not here in this case.

 

Yes, thats a fair cop, again, you are right to push that point home in relation to my comments. My wife and I, despite being open, are not in this situation and I think ultimately you are right - We have a physical -and- emotional bond, and the one feeds the other.

 

 

He has gone to this woman not for "extra" or some spice, he has gone to this woman for "everything"and as he is supposedly not a man who can separate emotion and sex, then he will walk at some point, into the arms of a woman who will want to give him "everything". The OPs "sacrifice" will ultimately be for nothing.

 

There is real danger here, I agree.

 

But the trick, and this is where my own experience comes in, is to not go for the 'everything'. There is no reason why sex can't be separated from emotion, largely. It depends upon how you segment your life and your mental attitude. The oxytocin effect is real, I believe, and if one is -not- pursuing a romantic engagement then one also has to take real care with how one conducts oneself.

 

Its difficult to really grow an emotional relationship with someone else, sex or not, if you are only spending a relatively small amount of time with them and of that time most or all of it is engaged in physical relations. If there is danger in relation to this then the whole cuddling and post sex intimacy must be curtailed - but this must be driven by your intent.

 

 

It may or may not be this particular woman, but things have escalated from the need for "release" once in a while, to daily sex.

 

I'm going to stick to my guns here. This situation _might_ mean something, or it might mean nothing. If I had the time and stamina I'd probably opt for daily sex too. At 29, I'm not surprised he feels this way with an available sexual partner.

 

He is slowly but surely moving away from the OP, and unfortunately she has nothing to offer to entice him back.

 

See this is where I really disagree and I suppose was the real point of my original response to your post.

 

From what I can ascertain from the posts so far, the OP and her husband have a real marriage, they are not pretending, nor are they just housemates. Yes, a big part of what constitutes the average marriage is missing, and certainly for those who marry relatively young (<30 is youngish these days).

 

To even get married in the first place, given the lack of the cliche 'honeymoon' sex/oxytocin mix that entraps so many of us, there must have been a real meeting of the minds and life expectations (again, barring sex).

 

The OP is _everything_ that the husband wants, she would be an enormous draw to him ... but for the problem discussed here.

 

She needs to extricate herself from this horrible situation, so she can get back into the real world and form bonds with people like this woman's husband.

If she stays with this man, she will become more and more isolated whilst he will pay her less and less attention as his real focus is elsewhere.

She needs to break free asap.

 

I guess I'm just not that quick to always want to run for the divorce card. Its a common enough thing here on LS. From the smallest misdemeanor to the largest infraction, people on LS so often just spurt out 'divorce'

 

I'm divorced, so its not like I don't believe it is a useful tool in irreconcilable situations, but I always think its worth going the distance first, and trying -everything- thats within reason before pulling out the big guns.

 

I've posted on LS many times before, I often wonder, even to this day, if I'd still be married to my first wife if I'd truly done "everything" to save it ... including the possibility of opening the marriage up.

 

It -is- possible, I think, to have a wonderful relationship with someone without sex with that person. My first marriage problem was that at the time I was strongly in favour of monogamy, and I found myself in an incel situation, which just drove me absolutely bonkers. I get unpleasant to live with after only 7-10 days without sex, after several years of this I was quite literally losing my mind.

 

I do actually think that for now, given circumstances that might, in time, be resolved, the OP's arrangement is actually a mature and thoughtful one. But clearly, given the mental and emotional suffering of the OP, its an arrangement that needs serious review and tweaking.

[JRP]

TBH, you and the OW should swap spouses all together. Her husband can't have sex (and you are attracted to him), you don't want to have sex. Your husband wants to have sex, she wants to have sex. Go your separate ways, with each other's spouse. It's only a matter of time until it happens.

 

It's not that simple. Just because we have one thing in common doesn't mean that we'd have enough in common (or they would) to form a successful relationship. We're all married and I'm not walking away from my husband for another man... that's a horrible thing to do. And sandylee is correct, that door has been shut and sealed by my husband.

 

 

The OPs husband has stopped her talking to the OM, so there'll be no spouse swapping.

 

It's a horrible situation OP. I think rapists should be castrated. They violated you in the worse way and after jail, they get on with their lives .... While you have had to settle for no children and a forced open marriage. It's not fair at all.

 

I will say another thing though. Your husband initially wanted kids, but was he wasn't prepared to consider IVF? Why?

 

I wonder whether your husband thinks this is sustainable long term. He must think about it.

 

Asides from saying I would have sought a partner who couldn't have sex either, I'd definitely look at finding a support group specific to your situation.

 

You need people or someone who knows how it feels.

 

I can't recall if you mentioned .... are you able to kiss your husband intimately? I recall you couldn't cope with an erect penis, but is it also difficult for you to be touched even lightly by him in that area? Or could you ever envisage receiving oral sex?

 

I'm just throwing things out there .... in hindsight perhaps you both should have dated longer and seen if this could be worked through, before committing to marriage .... you were both young enough, so there was no rush.

 

Do you think there was an attraction from the OWs husband to you?

 

They spent 2 years in prison. That's it. I feel like I'm stuck in a prison for the rest of my life.

 

My husband did really want kids. He always saw himself as being a dad one day. He said he didn't want to do insemination because it felt weird having his semen inside me when he hasn't been inside me. He said he didn't want to do IVF because it's expensive, he doesn't like that some embryos are destroyed and if we wanted kids badly enough we'd "make it work". He also doesn't want to have kids and be sleeping with other women. He doesn't want kids with me, basically.

 

When we first got together he was more open with me about it. He said he could wait/deal with it for a few years but couldn't do it his whole life. As time went on he started changing his answers to what I wanted to hear. Once I saw a tab he left open on his computer that was about divorce law. He says he's happy.

 

I can kiss him and we can "make out". He goes through phases of wanting to kiss me and not wanting to. It took a long time to get to that point, 1-2 years, he really enjoyed it and was happy just doing that. Then it changed to enjoying it but not be satisfied through it. Now he goes through periods of not wanting to because he gets sexually frustrated and I get uncomfortable if he gets an erection.

 

He can touch my butt without issue, and my boobs (there is a little bit of discomfort there but it's manageable). As long as my legs are closed he can sometimes lay his hand on me (over or under clothes) without moving it at all, but if my legs are open even a little bit it starts getting sensitive and that feeling makes the nerves and discomfort start up. I don't know if I'd ever be able to tolerate receiving oral sex. I'd say it has a higher chance than anything else. I've never had my pants off around him, he's never see me fully naked. I've seen him naked if he's getting dressed or just showered.

 

I can put my hand on his penis, over his clothes, for... 7 seconds. Yeah, 7 seconds before I literally can't do it anymore. At about 4 seconds I start to panic and by 7 it's like I'm dying. It's like holding your hand on something hot, you can only keep it there for so long before you HAVE to pull it away, your body just won't let you keep it there.

 

To be fair, we use to think that in time I'd be able to be intimate with him. Before we married we were making progress, we went to therapy alone and together, we were told that in time with enough work a sexual lift would be reachable. It was slow progress, really slow, but it was progress. Then we stopped progressing. If he wanted to he could file for an annulment and have our marriage erased.

 

I didn't feel like there was an attraction on his end. He was really friendly and did things that could be seen as flirting (sometimes I felt like it was), but I chalked that up to being his personality. He's extremely attractive, I think anyone would agree on that, he's probably use to having women hit on him. My husband disagreed and said he didn't like how the OW's husband was looking at me. His wife was in favour of us being friends, even to the point of going out together and doing "whatever we wanted".

[Mumbles]

Mumbles: Thank you for your perspective, you are correct that people who haven't be in an open relationship can't always understand them. It's not somewhere that I saw myself being, but it's the best solution that I have right now.

 

I don't think that open marriages are ever easy. I apologise if I've given that impression.

 

In my selfish heart of hearts, given my own history as a backdrop, I'd _very_ selfishly prefer a situation where I can wander but my wife chooses not to. But, its a selfish and unrealistic thought and what I gain from our situation is far in excess of what I lose. Every couple is different of course. This is just a truthful statement of a man wanting his cake and eating it too (I realise that), but its no more than that.

 

In our relationship, there is no sexual tension (of the bad kind), we're both getting all we could want, and more, and it just takes sex off the table as a source of conflict. Theres no pent up frustration because one or the other has a higher sex drive, and my wife does by the way, hands down. Theres no niggling doubt as to fidelity ... infidelity, in our reality, is a given.

 

 

You are right that there is a lot of jealousy. I'm drowning in jealousy. In the beginning I didn't know anything and thought that would be best. I didn't want to know when he was going to do it, or any other details. Every time he was out of the house I was worried. I wondered where he was, what he was doing, who he was doing it with. It ate away at me, I couldn't handle it.

 

I fully understand. Its a nasty rite of passage this, for all who try and then maintain an open relationship.

 

Because you can literally have sex in like 15 minutes, in the back of a car (for example), every moment you're not together you wonder what could be going on. Its irrational, of course, but this jealousy demon can literally eat you alive if you let it.

 

 

We switched so that I'd know when to eliminate that fear the the unknown. It helped in a way, I stopped wondering all the time. But when I knew he was seeing someone I was upset. I couldn't think of anything other than "right now my husband is with another woman". I'm at home alone while he's being as intimate as you can possibly be with a someone else. That should be me - but it's not. The more pressure I feel the farther I get from being able to do it.

 

See the difference is the 'knowing'. You know, now, with 100% certainty, what is going on, and this can't be a good thing. With every new bit of information it allows your active mind to then focus on the diminishing number of unknown things. You go from wondering if he's doing it at all, to wondering what specific activities he's actually engaged in.

 

I still strongly believe that a fair bit of fuzziness is helpful in these situations, particularly so when the arrangement is still relatively new.

 

However, I seriously applaud you both for being flexible and being able to discuss and change your arrangement when it seemed necessary.

 

I have thought that it would be easier if he saw professionals instead, it's legal where we live. It's not something that he has any interest in. At all. He thinks it's disgusting, he doesn't want to support that industry and he needs the emotion that goes along with sex. I've always been worried about him having sex with a bunch of random people, because of STD's mainly but also pregnancies or otherwise crazy women.

 

Mmm. This is a real shame. I agree with you, from your side of things I think it would be significantly easier. Professional ladies will look after the basic requirement here, but thats it. To a very large extent your jealously feelings would be quelled.

 

This line of inquiry would also largely dispel your worries surrounding pregnancy, crazy stalking type women and, yes, largely even STD's (there are statistics around this, but I won't divert the conversation right now).

 

I'm going to call out your husband here, for a moment. Not in an unkind way. The thing is, he has, by your words, an intellectual dislike of the 'escorting' industry. I'd extrapolate from that, that he has no experience in the field. Everyone is free to have their own beliefs, for sure, absolutely, but compromises are already being made, due to reality, in this relationship. My straight up, in your face, query here is ... whats more important? Holding on to this intellectual idea of not using professionals or looking after his wifes emotional well being?

 

He wants the emotion that comes with sex? I'm seeing that as a red flag to be honest. What is he actually trying to satiate here? In this open marriage? Up to this point I've believed that he wants/needs the physical sexual contact of a female. I fully understand this. It sounds like he has wound himself up, mentally, to thinking that a visit to a professional lady would be cold and methodical, a common enough thought among those who's never utilised their services. Its a fallacy, believe me. All women are women, working girls or not, they are not robots or machines. Its just that the ladies have learned how to head off situations where relationship feelings might start to emerge.

 

 

The longer my husband goes without having sex with me, the more accustomed he becomes to it. If it took years and years to have sex with him, it's no where in the foreseeable future, I don't know if he'd even want to or be able to.

 

Righto, well, if at some point in the future you are in a mental place where sex feels achievable for you, and I'm not discounting the enormity of this challenge, I'm quite certain your husband would be delighted.

 

At that point you'd renegotiate the terms of your open arrangement. You might elect to continue with it, with the added closeness that comes from also engaging, sexually, with each other ... or you might both elect to finish that arrangement and see how things go with a monogamous relationship style. Circumstances and people change enormously over their lives and the successful couple is one that can change and still hold on to each other.

 

When we first met my husband wanted kids, badly, and wanted 3-4 of them. They were always a priority for him. As he got to know me he changed that stance to say it didn't matter either way, even though that wasn't true. Now he says he doesn't want kids, because he got use to the idea of not having them. I feel like I'm ruining him. He use to believe in monogamy, but I ruined that too.

 

Too much self blame here. What about couples who want kids but can't have them? Theres no ruin there, its just life throwing challenges at you. Monogamy, well, its just a belief system. Different life circumstances can have an effect on ones world view - its doesn't mean you need to be destroyed by it or that you've been ruined by it. Its just life, the universe, you know, all that stuff.

 

On the children thing. Its not just your husband. I believe you also wrote earlier that you had thought, earlier in life, that you'd like some too. There appears to be a basic willingness there, but also an acceptance, from both of you, that this might not happen.

 

It could take years, decades, to comfortably move past your existent fears surrounding sexual contact. That is what it is, no blame on either of you there. But, you have previously mentioned IVF. This seems to me to be a reasonable thought. It may not be the fairy story dream of all us suburban masses, but its a realistic way of dealing with certain unchangeable current realities.

 

Your husband is against it, but, like the escort idea, it seems to me that he is too rigid here in what is, after all, just a mental concept. The children would still be yours, both of yours, biologically, the method is perhaps unconventional, insofar as the 'normal' way these things are done, but, again, we all need to be flexible in the face of reality.

 

Many men however do not have their spines nailed to the concept of procreation. Yes, some are very motivated, but a large number, in their secret hearts, are happy to take or leave it. It may well be that your husbands current thinking on the matter is as straightforward as it appears. He's happy enough not to have any.

 

In any event, seriously now, IVF or adoption, both are cards in play and shouldn't be discarded based upon nothing more than a mental blockage. Both these options will remain options, by the way, for decades to come, so no real need to face them off right at this minute.

 

 

BettyDraper... Part of him feels like I don't love him enough or like him enough to have sex. Or that I don't trust him enough, or that I won't try hard enough for him.

 

Its all fair enough. People have feelings, and thoughts. My take is that its probably a trust issue for you, at its heart, borne of previous life experience.

 

 

He's not perfect, no one is, but he isn't cake eating. I wouldn't call him emotionally abusive, oblivious maybe, but he's isn't abusive... I don't think he should be able to say who I can and cannot talk to or have a friendship with. That isn't fair but I don't want to fight him on it. He was really uncomfortable with it.

 

I'm strongly taking away the 'oblivious' thing here.

 

Although as a general thing I don't believe open marriages should have a 'veto' built in, there will be circumstances I'm sure where there is just a strange vibe with one of the partners. I don't meet my wifes lovers 99% of the time, nor she mine, so I don't get exposed to any weird vibes - though having said that, some of our past lovers have become firm friends, but those relationships are now platonic, and, as a generally respectful group, we take great care in how we treat each other. Greetings, for instance, are a peck on the cheek, nothing more.

 

So, hubby has picked up on a perception, real or not, of a 'vibe' between you and the other husband. Ok, its already been explored and you have agreed with him, despite misgivings, not to see this man, even though it was always just as friends.

 

But honestly now, cold hard light of day, you're talking about a most definite 'vibe' between your husband and the other mans wife. Exercise you veto - right there. Tell him you are uncomfortable with him continuing to see her. He must be a straight thinking logical man to even have come this far in your relationship - surely?

 

If he's a straight up and respectful man, he won't turn this into an argument. He expressed himself with his concerns ... so, you express yourself with yours. It doesnt even matter if you are right (or he is), its just respect.

 

He has other ladies he can turn to which don't give you this bad vibe (or at least he did ... did we see mention of 2-3 others?). Even if the others are currently off the scene, he can find new ones.

 

 

The marriage is only open on his side. I have no desire to be intimate with anyone so there was no need to have a fully open marriage.

 

I understand. I mentioned 'all options' for participants previously because this is the reality of an open marriage thats got any hope of success. The whole point is that -you- (and the other) get to choose how far you go. Sex or no sex, its up to the participants. I know from your words that for you this won't include sex, thats fine, but you can't be locked at home, sitting by the front door, waiting for hubby to finish his business - thats just not fair and isn't actually the basis of a respectful open marriage.

 

 

I don't think that my husband would be ok with me actually seeing another man. I actually know that he wouldn't be ok with it. If we were having sex, he wouldn't want an open marriage. Heck, if we were just doing oral or touching he wouldn't want an open marriage.

 

Yes, sure, I get it. But the reality of the situation is that you both have agreed to be open ... right? Or did you actually only agree to -him- seeing other women?

 

I fully understand the argument here. His response would, logically, be WTH!!! If you want to have sex, have sex with me. Thats a reasonable stand point. Again, I'm not suggesting that I think you want to be with other men physically, I get your situation I do. But, one sided agreements are not sustainable.

 

In your case, you've displayed the want/need to be able to engage with a third party to talk things through and have a 'friendship' relationship with. Because of the nature of your relationship you won't, easily, be able to fully talk these things through with your husband. Emotional needs shouldn't be viewed as any less valid than physical ones.

 

Sometimes my husband is only gone for 30 minutes, other times he has been gone for 4 hours. On one occasion he stayed with her overnight. He said they had sex, then cuddled after and fell asleep accidentally. I sat up all night worrying and didn't think he was going to come back. He apologized profusely and has made sure that it doesn't happen again but it still bothers me. It feels more than "just sex" it feels like a relationship between them. And if that's the case, eventually she will win.

 

Its unacceptable, this, in my view. Your husband, and possibly the other wife, sound like they are falling into a trap for newcomers to this lifestyle. You can't, you simply can't, allow situations to develop where the relationship with external lovers crosses the line into the emotional.

 

As I said in a previous post. 1 hour. Its enough for good solid life affirming sex with a bit of a cuddle in the afterglow. Again, whilst sexual preferences vary, a lot, between people, we must always focus on the real intent here. Its meaning, in this case, is to fulfill a physical need, that most people have, your husband included - no more, no less.

 

Four hours is just indulgent, and overnight ... you've got to be kidding me. These encounters are not 'dates' - nothing of the sort.

 

 

If I can trust him to have sex with other women and still come back to me, he should trust me to talk to and spend time with a man in my same situation.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

To be perfectly honest, I feel like my husband wouldn't care as much if the OW's husband wasn't as attractive. He has said "he's way too attractive" and "that man is too good looking" too many times, he's really insecure about it.

 

Insecurity and jealousy. Those of us in open relationships just have to deal. The basis is in trust and you have to build it and maintain it.

 

 

I'm uncomfortable with her, more their relationship than her, and he knows that. He hasn't taken the initiative to switch again. There is a reason for that... As soon as he said he was uncomfortable with her husband I "ended it", not that there was really much to end. It should go both ways.

 

Yes. Make this clear. It doesn't have to be an argument, in fact, it shouldn't even approach this state. His reaction will speak volumes.

 

 

The problem is that it never ends. There is always going to be another OW. I can't just veto them all. Unless can do a 180 and start being intimate with my husband it will never get better.

 

Yes, its why I don't believe in veto's.

 

But the thing is, its not the sex. You've said as much yourself. Its the fear of him building a relationship. Sheesh, its actually the exact same fear that your husband harbours in relation to the other wifes husband and you.

 

If the basis of your fear here is the building of relationships with the sexual partners, a very legitimate fear I might add, then it can be circumvented, to a very large degree, by agreeing to an imposed limit on the number of visits to any one woman. Make it 3, or 5, or whatever makes sense to you both. In conjunction with those visits being short, 1 hour maximum, the chances of any real and lasting attachment are slim to nil.

[road]

This is not an open marriage it is an open affair.

 

 

The OW's BH is not happy. He is being left crumbs, no more likely just a

crumb. Like a live in house maid.

Hell the OWH is no longer talking to OM/his ex best friend. He just

sits home, watches his WW go out the door to be pounded by his

ex-best friend.

 

 

The OP's WH is using his BW as a live in house maid.

 

 

The way both couples are living is not a marriage. Rather room mates.

 

 

OP time to pull the plug on your shame of a marriage. Get therapy, get

healthy, then get a real man and have a real marriage.

 

 

Oh, and soon as you divorce your WH dollars to doughnuts the OW will

divorce her BH to be with your WH full time. For you see this OW lost all

respect for her BH because he failed to mate guard his wife by letting

your WH bang her whenever, wherever, however he wanted, and he

just sat home and wait for his ex-friends leftovers. Total lost of respect.

No image weaker then a man letting another man use his wife as a

F' Buddy.

Edited January 14, 2017 by road