Extreme views on infidelity?

[salparadise]

None of our conversations about this in RL are ever as extreme as what I read online. I have seen WS compared to murderers, and even once a pedophile. When people compare it to the pain of losing a child I cannot relate. [...] Do you find the people in RL you know have similar stances on infedelity as those online? Or is it just easier to voice when one is anonymous?

 

I think the effect of infidelity is unique to the individual, and often depends on context as well. For someone who is deeply in love and puts all their faith in their partner/marriage, subscribe certain values, it can be devastating. But if two people are constantly fussing and sex has either become a punishment/reward system or ain't happening at all... well, duh, what did they think was going to happen?

 

I know of a couple who've been married 25 years and she claims they haven't had sex since the first couple of years. She has one ongoing fwb and has short-term filings with random people often. He knows what's going on but acts like he doesn't. He travels for business and if he wanted to catch her all he'd have to do is pretend to leave and then pop back in unexpectedly... or place a webcam in the bedroom. He has made peace with his lot and turns a blind eye. She has a few screws loose and he takes care of her like she were his daughter.

 

LS is a small society, and as such there are societal norms that become almost universally accepted and are prosthelytized vigorously. Since so many are here as a result of infidelity and betrayal, people tend to develop rigid belief systems and are totally invested in seeing things a certain way.

 

There are themes groups organized around certain issues, the type of experience the individuals have had, and how they interpret it. Men who have been devastated by cheating tend to become absolute moralists with regard to fidelity. I believe there are also biological predilections that help groups coalesce as well. Those who feel strongly about a topic are the ones who post in those topics, so it seems more unilateral than it actually is.

[Moxie Lady]

Moxie. This - "If theres one thing that I have learned its that we are all really truly alone in this world. The only one person we can count on one hundred percent is ourselves."

 

....is the most painful thing for me! I hate that, I truly do.

 

I'm coping by focusing on my very special friendships that I'm blessed with & my 'real' family (my babies & parents). I just don't think that mentally, given everything else I'm living with I can really accept your truth even though intellectually I get it.

 

 

Because of this nightmare I've made a friend that I share everything with, no shame, no fear. It's my leap of faith. She is my touch-stone.

 

Lady, I apologize for being a downer. And I have a best friend and wonderful family who are always there for me too. I think I am just down on relationships right now and that really has nothing to do with infidelity.

 

Im glad you found that touch-stone.

[CoolHandLuke76]

I guess everybody reacts in their own way. Some can brush it off while others are completely crushed by being cheated on. I've seen both. As for cheaters, personally I think they're of as low level of character as a human being can be. They are willing to betray the one person in the world they actually took a vow never to betray. Oh well, vows are about as enforceable as treaties with native Americans were.

[sidney2718]

Shattered: I'm terribly sorry about the events that enveloped you. You have friends here. Use them as sounding boards if you feel like it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess everybody reacts in their own way. Some can brush it off while others are completely crushed by being cheated on. I've seen both. As for cheaters, personally I think they're of as low level of character as a human being can be. They are willing to betray the one person in the world they actually took a vow never to betray. Oh well, vows are about as enforceable as treaties with native Americans were.

 

yes...cheaters are the worst people on the face of the earth...much below murderers and child molesters.....

 

and yet...you choose to stay with one

[Lady Hamilton]

Lady H....we have very dear friends that live in Canada. We have known them 16 years and they have lived together that whole time. They have never married. Before we met them...they were both married to other people. They met at work...had an affair...and divorced their spouses.

 

It makes no difference to us. We make no judgement one way or the other. We have never told them about our past....I don't know if they would be as gracious toward us if they knew....

 

funny how that works.....

 

I've stopped being surprised by what graciousness people do and don't extend to each other, sadly.

 

In a strange way, the affair made me a much softer and more easygoing person. Pre affair, I knew it all and was super quick to judge. The affair was my close encounter crash course with learning humility and tolerance.

 

Now, by and large, I love an IRL existence of "it's not my place to judge." Yes, there are a few glaring exceptions to that, and no, I don't feel I'm as good at it online as I am IRL, but generally... I'm more aware there's a backstory to everything that I don't know about.

[LivingWaterPlease]

 

LS is a small society, and as such there are societal norms that become almost universally accepted and are prosthelytized vigorously. Since so many are here as a result of infidelity and betrayal, people tend to develop rigid belief systems and are totally invested in seeing things a certain way.

 

There are themes groups organized around certain issues, the type of experience the individuals have had, and how they interpret it. Men who have been devastated by cheating tend to become absolute moralists with regard to fidelity. I believe there are also biological predilections that help groups coalesce as well. Those who feel strongly about a topic are the ones who post in those topics, so it seems more unilateral than it actually is.

 

Perceptive and insightful. I've noticed that the Infidelity and OW/OM forums ebb and flow in intensity as posters leave and are replaced with new posters.

 

Wonder what percentage of posters maintain a long-term presence on LS. A subject for another thread.

[Lady Hamilton]

As for comparing hurts and deciding which is worse, I think it's a very subjective thing and depends entirely on ones experiences. Some people fear emotional pain over physical pain, others vice versa. There's no right or wrong answer, only what our answer is based off of our fears and life experiences.

 

Like, when I was younger, the worst hurt was emotional. Nothing was worse than betrayal from friends or loved ones or people I trusted. You could do anything physically to me and it wouldn't hurt as bad.

 

Then I was diagnosed with an illness that caused serious problems with the part of my body and how it functions I'm most self conscious about. There was lots of pain the likes of which I didn't get existed, tons of humiliating moments, and I felt like I lost every shred of basic dignity one has with their body and its functions.

 

After a year of that, I thought "you know, I wish I was back where being cheated on by the guy I thought I was going to marry was my biggest problem."

 

Comparing the feelings of an affair to the death of a child or loved one to see which is worse? I mean... That's a no brainier for me. I'd rather deal with my husband cheating than one of my kids dying. Or anybody dying, really.

 

There's no right or wrong answer, it's just a question of what can be dealt with better by the person experiencing it.

[minimariah]

In the real world everybody knows my husband and I had an affair.

 

i'm curious - how does the word get out? in general, how do people find out about the affair? i never seem to know anything, mostly because i'm not interested... but i'm curious as to who lets the information into the world.

 

in my own example - i didn't really tell anyone. my xH & his OW/now partner didn't tell anyone either for obvious reasons (not counting our closest ones) + we had this mutual agreement that we won't mention the affair to the outsiders because we didn't really see the point. but folks STILL KNEW! and some totally random people, i never quite understood like... how do people notice? i never notice sh*t and i'm genuinely out of touch with what's happening in our town.

 

also - in our world, nobody really cared either. minus our closes ones who were our support. no one approached my xH & his partner and said a bad word... ever. some people did lose some respect for him and probably pittied me but that vanished very quickly as we moved on with our lives. i read stories about people being ostracized and stuff but i never actually SEEN it happen. most accept the situation and eventually completely forget about, especially if the postaffair couple is successful and blends in.

[minimariah]

Do you find the people in RL you know have similar stances on infedelity as those online? Or is it just easier to voice when one is anonymous?

 

^ i second this. affairs were never really big feal for me. i always knew the risk and oh, well... if it happens, i'll deal with it then. and it did and it honestly didn't hurt as much as i thought it would. i handled it easier than i thought i would. my main concern was my child, i bounced back very quickly.

 

and i'm also surprised reading devastatingly heartbreaking stories because i don't see it either in RL, some fake - for sure. it's easier to put on a happy face, i guess...? and not be questioned about it all the time? but i genuinely see folks moving on a lot faster than i might thing if i was to rely only on online stories.

 

for me - it is definitely eggarated online. OR, for example... when i read stories about folks losing their families and children... i never saw that in RL. no one ever actually cut off contact with their parent because of the affair around me. i believe something does shift in the relationship but folks certainly do adapt and move on.

[OneLov]

OP

 

How many people have you discussed (your) infidelity with on a personal level IRL? We'll say 5. How many posters have commented of or concerning infidelity on LS? Thousands? I have seen posters make such express comments, but more than 5 posters have made comments on this thread agreeing with statements in your original post. So, I guess what I am suggesting is if you talk to more people IRL you'll find folks that will state it is worse than murder, death, or just about anything life can throw at you.

[Mr. Lucky]

I also don't believe that all people who cheat are horrible people, I think we are all human and being human comes with lessons and mistakes(yes I know cheating is a choice).

 

Two things come to mind:

 

1). There's a difference between horrible actions and horrible people, though it can get confusing. While most posters here hate the sin, they still love the sinner.

 

2). Tough love is still a form of support. Many people initially post here still engaging in lies, deceit and manipulation or with a spouse doing said same. It's not doing them a disservice to point out the damage being done...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr Blunt]

Quote by OP

I'm in Canada. I completely agree that it can be traumatizing without a doubt. I was more referring to cheaters being compared to murderers and molesters and the stance that they are horrible people who can't be fixed or ever be trusted again.

 

 

IMO. Comparing murders and molesters to adult infidelity is kind of like comparing losing a leg to terminal brain cancer. Most infidelities are like losing a leg but the BS can either hobble around on crutches or get an artificial leg. In some rare cases of infidelity it is like getting your leg severely broken in many places. Murders and molesters are terminal brain cancer people because they have taken a life that can never be restored or recover to any degree. The molester has taken a person that did not have a choice in the matter. The child molester is almost as bad as a murderer.

 

As a BS I know the great pain that betrayal can do so I am not down playing a betrayal. I also put cheaters into categories. There are the serial cheaters that are narcissist that have been cheating for many years and have no intention of changing. I call those people NNIC (Narcissist with No Intention of Changing) Frankly, I do not care what names they call them and once I find out that they are incorrigible then I do not get involved in any way with them.

 

There is another category of cheaters that have a long term EA and PA and compound that with other hurtful actions. If those cheaters are truly remorseful and prove their remorse with actions then I do not think that they should be called vile names and constantly put them down. I would say that we should help them or shut up.

 

I also have a category for those that get involved in an ONS. I think that the couple that faces that situation has a much better chance of a very successful recovery than the previous ones mentioned. Mrs. John Adams has been very open on this forum and so I will use her as example. She had an ONS and I am not going to minimize the devastation that it had on Mr. JA but a ONS means that the WS stopped after one time. That would indicate that they were not willing to continue to disrespect themselves and their spouse. It also means that the WS was not totally committed to the OM/OW.

 

From what I have read of Mr. and Mrs. JA, they verify my statement that they have a “much better chance of a very successful recovery” my understanding is that they have over 30 years of R and that now they are closer in many ways than ever before. Mr. and Mrs. Adams are very positive contributors to this forum IMO.

 

In conclusion, I would say that calling WSs vile names and always putting them down is usually done by a person that has had an unsuccessful R or D and they are spewing their bitterness. However, as I have said about the category of NNIC, I do not care what they call them as they are of no interest to me.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Mr Blunt

[Woggle]

Call me extreme but I don't forgive betrayal. It is a line a woman can never come back from in my life.

[Cloudcuckoo]

I recall not long after dday we hadfriends around for dinner....

 

As the eight of us sat around the table I suddenly realised that I was the only one who had not been party to any illicit liaisons.

 

Each of them at some point had discussed their affair with me in confidence. Each with differing views on their 'role' in the situation. One with very strong ideas about its affect on children.

 

I too agree with the idea that forums such as these might appear to be more powerful than in real life by their very nature of 'safe expression through anonimity'.

 

We certainly didn't discuss the subject at the dinner table!

[underpants]

This - "If theres one thing that I have learned its that we are all really truly alone in this world. The only one person we can count on one hundred percent is ourselves."

 

....is the most painful thing for me! I hate that, I truly do.

 

Why? Self loathing?

 

Knowing you are on your own is really liberating. Freedom. You can cry about it, or you can embrace it. I encourage the latter.

[Lady Hamilton]

i'm curious - how does the word get out? in general, how do people find out about the affair? i never seem to know anything, mostly because i'm not interested... but i'm curious as to who lets the information into the world.

 

In our case, word got out initially because his now ex-wife told everybody and continues to tell everybody. At this point, I'm fairly sure she must introduce herself by saying "Hi, my name is Mrs Hamilton and my husband Mr Hamilton cheated on me and left me for Lady Hamilton."

 

At the time, even before he left, she told everybody and, if they cared or didn't, most did spread it. Gossip is gossip after all. People like to gossip. However, it all fairly quickly died down and she was the only one who really brought it up. Every once in awhile somebody will say something to my husband about it at work, but generally... People know, they don't care.

 

Some of it may be unique to our situation, but the number of people who find out and dwarfs the number of people who found out and do. I think some of it was because it was not recent anymore and at this point we've been married longer than they were in a relationship. At the time some of it is because people know her and aren't surprised the marriage didn't work based off certain things that occurred. Some of it is simply people don't care.

 

i think maybe if we engaged in a Jerry Springer-like back-and-forth, maybe it would be different. I know people talk about her life pre and post affair and divorce constantly, but I think it's because she's made it such a huge chunk of what she herself talks about. She talks about every text, email, court date, and conversation between us and her. She makes clear her life's mission is to make things as difficult and miserable as possible, to find a new partner who agrees to do the same with her, and shares in graphic detail how she does it and now her boyfriend does too.

 

On the flip side, at the time of the affair we admitted it happened and we didn't hide we were a couple, but we discussed NOTHING. And I mean nothing. Not even with friends, close friends, or family. We didn't defend ourselves, explain our side of the story... Nothing. Same rules now. We talk about nothing. We don't engage, we don't explain, we just go about life. As a result, there's nothing people can discuss and people get that all we want is to just live normal existences, not engage in a public drama of "he said, she said."

 

Pair that with some of the outrageous things she admits she does to us for the sole purpose of being disruptive and, well... I think people get the full picture of what's going on without us having to say anything.

 

I just think out "nothing to see here, folks" attitude goes a long way to explaining why everybody knows and almost nobody cares.

[Cymbeline]

I recall not long after dday we hadfriends around for dinner....

 

As the eight of us sat around the table I suddenly realised that I was the only one who had not been party to any illicit liaisons.

 

Each of them at some point had discussed their affair with me in confidence. Each with differing views on their 'role' in the situation. One with very strong ideas about its affect on children.

 

I too agree with the idea that forums such as these might appear to be more powerful than in real life by their very nature of 'safe expression through anonimity'.

 

We certainly didn't discuss the subject at the dinner table!

 

This happened to me too. 10 old friends (in our 50's )round a table and I and one husband were the only two who had never been unfaithful. We are all internationally career mobile which brings its peculiar stresses to marriages and know each other quite intimately. all nice, successful people and all happy together in the end.

[BetrayedH]

Interesting divergence of opinions here. It seems to me that there's a little truth in each of them.

 

I think several subjects are actually being discussed at once and I won't try to tackle them all.

 

As for comparisons of how "bad" waywards are, I really think a lot of it has to do with the wayward. Red, if I recall correctly, your H stopped his relatively brief affair, confessed it, has been remorseful ever since, and you've successfully reconciled. If that's the case, it's understandable that you'd have the perspective that waywards are redeemable people who just made a tragic error. It seems understandable to me that you'd still see the good in people and that the disruption to your life might have been devastating at the time, but not permanent. For you, it would make little sense to compare waywards to the worst of society.

 

Just to cite a different case, I'll briefly discuss my situation. My wife's affair went on for over a year until she was caught. While she feigned remorse and promised honesty, she quietly continued with the OM. While I hoped that my family might be salvaged, I had to dig and investigate to discover that she got off in my ignorance and the disrespect she was showing me. It took many months to torturously play out and ended in a divorce. I also lost my job the same week my divorce went thru, thanks to the distraction it caused me at work. I lost pretty much everything that was important to me. My wife never expressed true remorse and never gave me the truth. Frankly, she is a bad person. And I will never be the same from the experience. Worse yet, she's still my partner in raising my children. So it never really quite ends.

 

I don't think it's helpful to compare such people to murderers and such but I can certainly relate to those who feel just as impacted, which I think is another discussion being had here. Some people obviously had more invested. I think that's another factor.

 

But my point is that the individual circumstances do seems to have a major influence over exactly how much of a big deal infidelity is on the individuals involved. I have seen waywards that have earned their forgiveness as much as they are able and I see the good in those situations where a BS extends that forgiveness. Those are my favorite stories and it's probably my hope in most situations I read here. On the other hand, I've also seen waywards that just deserve their own special place in hell.

 

I do think that I have spoken pretty openly in RL about what happened to me and that my views expressed in RL are the same as I hold here. I don't think what I say is more extreme in one place over the other. That's not to say that I share my views with everyone in RL as it's not always an appropriate forum. This forum just happens to be intended for it by design.

[wmacbride]

I ind thread topics like this to be , in a way, kind of insulting to bs. I know they are not meant to be.

 

How can one person judge the depth of another's hurt an how they choose to express it? One one person might be able to brush off with relative ease another might find extremely difficult and painful. This is due to so many personal reasons that it's near impossible to label someone as overreacting.

 

Their pain is their own, and only they know how bad it is.

[ShatteredLady]

Underpants. You are correct, of course "Knowing you are on your own is really liberating. Freedom. You can cry about it, or you can embrace it. I encourage the latter."

 

 

For me, I find it hard to be in a situation (living in a foreign country) that's naturally isolating AND dealing with chronic pain & cancer, with a young family & aging parents AND the loss of my brother and and and....

 

I think everything else that's going on in your life at the time that situations hit make a lot of difference as does your perception of your relationship.

 

I have no doubt that the time will come when all of this will be a distant memory. It's just hard to get there sometimes & that's where forums like this come in....

 

 

Anyway, I'm a nester! I've never liked the 'Every man is an island. We all die alone' stuff. I get it philosophically but 'romantically' it not my thing. I know it's sounds 'wet' but I prefer the idea of family or 'tribes', that we're social creatures who are happier with intimate relations we can trust in.

Edited May 29, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[Red123]

I ind thread topics like this to be , in a way, kind of insulting to bs. I know they are not meant to be.

 

How can one person judge the depth of another's hurt an how they choose to express it? One one person might be able to brush off with relative ease another might find extremely difficult and painful. This is due to so many personal reasons that it's near impossible to label someone as overreacting.

 

Their pain is their own, and only they know how bad it is.

 

It wasn't meant to insult anyone. I am a bs myself. My question was about RL and online forums and the difference in opinions and views of infidelity that people have. I was comparing my own pain not that of anyone else.

[ShatteredLady]

I think it's an interesting topic.

 

Firstly, the comparing infidelity to the loss of a child. That one shocked me too!! It's actually stated in quite a few different psychological articles I read when I was first going through this. They DON'T say that they're the same! What some shrinks say is that infidelity is incredibly distructive to a marriage, in some cases second only to loosing a child.

I've NEVER heard anyone say it's as bad.

I think what they mean is it's more complex & mulilayered than the act of having relations with another man/woman.

 

 

Psychologically it does interest me why some bs appear to be far more "destroyed" by adultery than others. My brothers suicide being one of the most extreme.

 

I remember my Mum telling a story from their very early 20's. My Dad's older brother was planning marriage to his then pregnant girlfriend. He went out for the night & learnt of her infidelity, the baby wasn't his. When he returned home he was white as a sheet, shaking & he physically couldn't speak!! It took them nearly a day to get what had happened out of him. He was in shock for nearly a week, no sleep, vomiting, hard to speak...

 

My other uncle stayed with us when his wife left for another man. He was filled with rage, wanted to kill. I remember him running around & around our 4 acres field trying to burn off his fury. Nearly 40 years post divorce there is STILL drama!

 

I've known people go through the shock & pain but a couple of months later they're dating & appear so over it. You never know.

 

In my own situation I know that my life at the time (isolation, health, depression) has made my reaction & recovery that much harder. Maybe some FOO nature/nurture aspects? I am a proud lady. My vulnerability, dependence on my H as a SAHM & my faith in him obviously contribute.

 

I'd never compare infidelity with murder or pedophilia! It does feel like parts of me have been 'killed', "I'll never be the same" kind of statements.

 

Only my very closest friends know about my H infidelity. LS is where I vent & rage. I guess people in real life, if they later discover the truth, would think I couldn't be 'that' damaged by it because I've appeared 'normal' over the last year.

[EverySunset]

I am of one mind, one soul, and I try to stay authentic in real life with my family and friends, as I am here on LS.

 

My XWH was destructive, awful, and I choose not to reconcile anymore, once was enough. He had once to be real. Twice is his loss, not mine.

 

My story is very out in the open. I am authentic and real about it, and I won't lie for him anymore. Did he cheat on me? Of course. Was it embarrassing? I guess so, for him. He lost me, and any semblance of honor. Anyone who comes after m can ask me anything. Would I volunteer? Likely not. Would I answer honestly if I was asked? You betcha.

[Red123]

Interesting divergence of opinions here. It seems to me that there's a little truth in each of them.

 

I think several subjects are actually being discussed at once and I won't try to tackle them all.

 

As for comparisons of how "bad" waywards are, I really think a lot of it has to do with the wayward. Red, if I recall correctly, your H stopped his relatively brief affair, confessed it, has been remorseful ever since, and you've successfully reconciled. If that's the case, it's understandable that you'd have the perspective that waywards are redeemable people who just made a tragic error. It seems understandable to me that you'd still see the good in people and that the disruption to your life might have been devastating at the time, but not permanent. For you, it would make little sense to compare waywards to the worst of society.

 

Just to cite a different case, I'll briefly discuss my situation. My wife's affair went on for over a year until she was caught. While she feigned remorse and promised honesty, she quietly continued with the OM. While I hoped that my family might be salvaged, I had to dig and investigate to discover that she got off in my ignorance and the disrespect she was showing me. It took many months to torturously play out and ended in a divorce. I also lost my job the same week my divorce went thru, thanks to the distraction it caused me at work. I lost pretty much everything that was important to me. My wife never expressed true remorse and never gave me the truth. Frankly, she is a bad person. And I will never be the same from the experience. Worse yet, she's still my partner in raising my children. So it never really quite ends.

 

I don't think it's helpful to compare such people to murderers and such but I can certainly relate to those who feel just as impacted, which I think is another discussion being had here. Some people obviously had more invested. I think that's another factor.

 

But my point is that the individual circumstances do seems to have a major influence over exactly how much of a big deal infidelity is on the individuals involved. I have seen waywards that have earned their forgiveness as much as they are able and I see the good in those situations where a BS extends that forgiveness. Those are my favorite stories and it's probably my hope in most situations I read here. On the other hand, I've also seen waywards that just deserve their own special place in hell.

 

I do think that I have spoken pretty openly in RL about what happened to me and that my views expressed in RL are the same as I hold here. I don't think what I say is more extreme in one place over the other. That's not to say that I share my views with everyone in RL as it's not always an appropriate forum. This forum just happens to be intended for it by design.

I completely agree that individual circumstances create our views/reality. Your right my Hs A was over almost before it started and once he fully came clean he hasn't looked back even when the MOW attempted to resume contact. Reading your post I can see why you would have some of the feelings I was asking about, however I have never taken that from your responses to my posts. You have always been really diplomatic with me and never aggressive with views of "all cheaters". I have been questioned on here about being to passive or not giving the MOW consequences etc and I just feel that most people can change if they want to and it's not my job to make them. I think I may feel very different if things had have been different with my H. I read stuff that makes me cringe too, like As that go on for years or people cheating on terminally ill spouses but I still can't say that all cheaters are the same. My friends in RL have a variety of situations, some really bad but I still look at them as all different. We are all different and I can only speak from my perspective, but I think my M would be far worse off if I didn't and factored in everything I read online.