todreaminblue Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) i think god got it 100 per cent fool proof right....if people didnt have sex before marriage there would be less hurt people in the world...if people didnt commit adultery while married.... having affairs...being deceitful...lying to get sex.... there would be less hurt people in the world....if all people respected each other and didnt go around feeling entitled...there would be no rape....but god gave us the capacity to make our own decisions...... we can choose to have sex before marriage...we can choose to have affairs while married...we can choose to lie...we can choose to rape.....pillage...plunder....steal ..defraud and defame or we can choose to do whats right......whatever...theres consequences for all we do...we are responsible adults who can choose to have sex or not.....with sex...comes a lot of possible pain.....a chance to get hurt...and i think when you choose to have sex outside of marriage you are already aware.....of things that can happen that arent so good when you have sex with people you dont know all that well........its part of maturity.... one thing i feel quite strongly about is what it is to rape someone......i dont think the lines should be blurred at all.......would it not then effect possible rape cases to come under more scrutiny...give more loop holes by case to case precedence....more ways to squeeze out of actual rape...rape is rape...there should be no grey area with rape.......the charges against rape should be severe goal time......for the rapist...not monetary gain for the victim.......rape is a criminal act against another.comes under murder and manslaughter etc.......lying and fraud in regards to sex.....maybe a civil matter...i dont know...i know it hurts to be lied too....but rape..im not even going into it i have athousand times before.........it causes horrendous damage for the victim...and honestly....for the rapist as well....the consequences...are severe if found guilty...as they should be severe...the person is a danger to society..its not something to be done lightly ...to accuse another of rape...and there should be no more blurry lines added to what it is to rape....another.....deb Edited May 30, 2016 by todreaminblue 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I personally don’t think it should be called rape because I want the word and crime rape to have a specific and clearer meaning. But rape-by-deception isn’t some wild or outrageous concept. It’s been debated by scholars with great arguments. Just Google “Yale Law Journal Rape by Deception” to read articles. So, OP isn’t way off base by any means! It’s debatable and has been debated. Though to be fair, pretty much any idea can be debated and written about. Doesn't mean that it holds any weight though. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 LuckiestGirl. He's HORRIBLE! DISGUSTING! CRUEL! I'm so sorry that you crossed paths with an awful person like him at that time in your life. Being horrible, disgusting and cruel isn't anything new or even really noteworthy when it comes to relationships.....I'd imagine most of the people on this site can relay stories of horrible cruelty and awful people ..I can relay stories(one one in particular involving a close friend) that would make the OP's pale in comparison.. But to suggest rape charges or lawsuits??? Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but just another painful life lesson learned....Time to move on people.... TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Yea an excuse to put more people in prison Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 If we call this rape then what do we call when a person has the other believe they are in a contract of exclusivity - like marriage. The old, forsaking all other's bit of the ceremony and/or contract. Having sex believing there is no one else is creating deceit and fraud as the other, the BS, or at least the majority wouldn't knowingly sleep with their spouse if they thought there was an OW/OM also sleeping with their spouse and what does that make the AP? An accessory? just being Devil's Advocate and adding to the mix. I can see why the OP feels used, but rape? no, absolutely not. Link to post Share on other sites
GunslingerRoland Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I think if you put the term rape on everything, then it devalues the horror of real actual rape. Is it nice, no, but is it criminal, I don't think so. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 This is the equivalent to those foolish women to men as "stalkers" if they simply have a crush on them. Poor choice of words. It's like some women are ready to be accusatory and throwing out the victim card at a given notice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I do NOT disagree, but with respect to the law, it could be argued that the deceived person should have taken a more aggressive approach in finding out that he was, in fact, single. Before having sex! There are background checks, etc not to mention just paying attention to his words and actions, making sure they jive, taking off blinders as so many of wear, and basically not allowing yourself to be deceived. Google "alienation of affection" I discussed in previous post. A woman sued her husband's mistress and was awarded 9 million. Why HE wasn't part of the lawsuit boggles my mind. While I can see what you mean and I'm sure many would do what checks they could now, why blame the victim here? If a guy lies like this, shouldn't he have some responsibility? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 So "some kind of penalty" automatically equals rape charge? I don't think it's rape but it is deception. There was once a time in England when a man's word and a 'handshake' meant something (in the days before contracts). Although 'fair maidens' have been falling under the influence of the more worldly for centuries, I still think it should be recognised that deliberate deception about marriage is wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) While I can see what you mean and I'm sure many would do what checks they could now, why blame the victim here? If a guy lies like this, shouldn't he have some responsibility? I am not blaming the victim only suggesting that they take at least some responsibility for what happens to them in their relationships .... We all should! Not just with respect to something like this either... Negative experiences such as this can often be avoided by being more proactive, self-protective and cautious. Being violently raped by a stranger or by a guy who spikes our drink which knocks us out (which happened to me) is totally different. We have no control over that. That is all I am saying. Edited May 30, 2016 by katiegrl 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ManyDissapoint Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I agree with you. We disagree about that. There are certain facts that 100% stop me from having sex with someone. Many. No matter how much I want to have sex. The best policy in that case would be to wait until you have all your facts before having sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ManyDissapoint Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Oh and a long time ago an ex girlfriend of mine had sex with me without telling me that she had genital herpes. I was seriously pissed off about that. But that was certainly not rape despite the fact that I felt violated. Her punishment was being dumped. Thank god I didn't catch the herp. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 The best policy in that case would be to wait until you have all your facts before having sex. Absolutely. If there’s something that would be a deal breaker, make sure that person isn’t that. While I can see what you mean and I'm sure many would do what checks they could now, why blame the victim here? If a guy lies like this, shouldn't he have some responsibility? He has full responsibility. All OP did was trust and believe what someone told her. It’s all his fault. I’m not saying this about OP, just that generally it’s good for all women to be comfortable in researching as deeply as they wish to make sure that a guy who is trying to date her is who and what he claims to be. As R Reagan said, trust but verify- in other words, don’t trust what people say. Trust yourself and research and find out. Link to post Share on other sites
SwordofFlame Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 While I can see what you mean and I'm sure many would do what checks they could now, why blame the victim here? If a guy lies like this, shouldn't he have some responsibility? It's unethical and immoral, but awarding her some kind of damages in this case is as ludicrous as women or men suing because they had their "heart broken" after being dumped. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have no sympathy for cheaters who lie to women but if they passed a law like this it would be abused. It would turn all men who have sex into potential criminals which is actually what I think a lot of these misandrists want to do. The books are filled with well intentioned laws that have done nothing but criminalize people who should never be considered criminals. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 What I don't get is how a woman can be involved with a married man and not at least suspect he is married. Has she been to his place? Spend holidays together or weekends? Met family? Friends? Does he often have to cancel plans? So many other clues, I don't get it. How can she not at least suspect something isn't jiving, assuming she is PAYING ATTENTION. Yes of course he is a DB for lying but like I said, the woman needs to bear some responsibility too. IMO. Not even due diligence but simply paying attention. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ask any married man and he will tell you being married actually makes more women attracted to you. I never got hit on as much as I do now that I have a wedding ring. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jabron1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 While I can see what you mean and I'm sure many would do what checks they could now, why blame the victim here? If a guy lies like this, shouldn't he have some responsibility? Not exactly sure what you want here. Adulterers to be stoned? Public flogging, 20 lashes? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JustGettingBy Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 What I don't get is how a woman can be involved with a married man and not at least suspect he is married. Has she been to his place? Spend holidays together or weekends? Met family? Friends? Does he often have to cancel plans? So many other clues, I don't get it. How can she not at least suspect something isn't jiving, assuming she is PAYING ATTENTION. Yes of course he is a DB for lying but like I said, the woman needs to bear some responsibility too. IMO. Not even due diligence but simply paying attention. Odds are she's suspicious of something, but doesn't want to believe he's married and she stays is denial. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Odds are she's suspicious of something, but doesn't want to believe he's married and she stays is denial. Agree, which is precisely my point in saying the woman bears some responsibility too.......for what happens to her in her relationships....... Take off the blinders..... that's on HER, not the guy. Even though the guy is lying *******. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Luckiestgirl: Here's the thing. In the future do not consent to have sex with someone until you know where they live and have met some of his friends and family. As for deception, a lot of women marry men for their money. They do not love these men and care about nothing but the size of their bank account, is that rape because the wife lied about why she married him? It is called Rape by Deception, or Rape by Fraud. Recently I fell victim to a man that I had been dating. The guy of my dreams turned out to be married. I wrote about it in another post. I did not know he was married and called it off when I discovered the truth. I have been ruminating about it because I am still very angry, humiliated, and hurt. If you google "can I sue a cheating husband", you will discover that the search results will take you mostly to "how to sue your husband's lover" (in a few states, you can), but there is mostly no protection against victims of deception. Again, I am referring to women AND men who thought they were dating someone single, and were lied to. I am not referring to people who made the choice of maintaining an affair willingly. Nowadays one of the key points of rape is consent - this is why it is never a good idea to have "drunk sex", as consent cannot be given. But what about deception? You consent was based on false information. If you had known that person was married, you wouldn't have consented to having intercourse. In that regard, is that rape? The law in my state does not cover this point, and honestly I do not have the financial resources to pursue that route, but if I did, I would. In New Jersey, Assemblyman Troy Singleton has introduced a bill covering this subject. Different states have different laws. I personally wish I lived in NJ and I hope the bill becomes law, because what happened is just terrible, and in a world of internet dating, cheaters, and liars, enough is enough. Some people might strongly oppose the law (cheaters?). Remember when there couldn't be rape if two people were married (spousal rape)? A lot of people thought it wasn't rape. Or when violence had to be one of the key points of Rape (Roofie anyone?). So yes, I'm all for that law. Victims have absolutely zero protection under the law at the moment. Time for a change. Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ask any married man and he will tell you being married actually makes more women attracted to you. I never got hit on as much as I do now that I have a wedding ring. Agreed. The other big factor is money and prestige. A guy can be Brad Pitt, but if he lives in a hovel and is out of work, few women will want to date him. When my income went up, and my job title was a prestigious one, women started throwing themselves at me. It is actually annoying being that I am happily married and already have one regretted affair under my belt. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have no sympathy for cheaters who lie to women but if they passed a law like this it would be abused. It would turn all men who have sex into potential criminals which is actually what I think a lot of these misandrists want to do. The books are filled with well intentioned laws that have done nothing but criminalize people who should never be considered criminals. I don't think laws that apply to only one sex are constitutional so any law about deception to induce, fraud, etc would be gender-neutral. I don't think men would need to fear this any more than women would, and then only liars would. I agree with the problems of proof but that's usually a deterrent to suit as much as a reason to expect frivolous suits. Link to post Share on other sites
Liam1 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Bottom line is while lying and deception are unethical and wrong it is not against the law. I was thinking about coercion and thinking maybe she could get him for that, but I just researched coercion and it is not even close to that either. There was no force, no intimidation ..... she willingly consented of her own free will...and most likely enjoyed it. She got duped and sorry but people need to take some responsibility for what happens to them in their relationships. Next time be more careful and get to know a man better before having sex. Pay attention, I am sure there were signs ....... there always are. Now if he had HIV and knew that before he had sex with her, and she contracted it, she could sue him for that. To sue you need to show you have suffered damages. But having sex because he lied?. What are her actual damages? Hurt feelings? Humiliation? Would never fly in a court if law. And rape? No way... I agree. It is not rape and it is not even fraud She can not sue for fraud because there was nothing in writing. Perhaps if there was a notarized statement she might have an actionable case for breech of contract. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I agree. It is not rape and it is not even fraud She can not sue for fraud because there was nothing in writing. Perhaps if there was a notarized statement she might have an actionable case for breech of contract. I don't think that a writing is required for suing for fraud. Generally, these are the requirements: (1) a false statement of a material fact, (2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts