BC1980 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I've always questioned God's existence, but, until recently, the answer never really mattered. I've dipped in and out of church. I've had periods where I didn't believe in God/Jesus, and I've had periods where I believed 100%. I've come to a point where I need something to hold onto, something to believe in, and I naturally looked to my faith to fill that hole. The only problem is that I have a difficult time believing in God and Christianity. It seems like faith matters a lot right now, but I'm coming up short on it. I've read books on apologetics, and those just don't work. I don't feel belief in my heart. So I'd love to hear why you believe in God, Jesus, and/or an after life. Life seems pretty grim without at least one of those things. At least to me. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I don't believe, and life is pretty meaningful and fulfilling for me. I gave up on the empty promises of faith long ago, and I've been far happier since. I can't say that this view will work for you, of course. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RecentChange Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I wasn't raised with religion or faith. In times of struggle I have attempted mightily to acquire "faith" but never did. I feel like the rational part of me just can't accept which I believe in my heart to be a fantasy. That said, I do not feel like life is grim without faith! I find life a fulfilling, beautiful adventure. I also believe living for the NOW, without a promise of an afterlife as a natural way for me to navigate this world. It just feels right, and it is what I accept. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
seamos Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I think that what is important to a person at the end is largely affected by what was taught to them in the beginning. I was in a motorcycle wreck once and nearly died. (I was listed as a fatality on the police report) When I arrived at the hospital I kept asking for a preacher or a priest or ... I thought I would need as much time as possible to confess my sins. LOL They kept assuring me the Dr.'s were on their way but I was really only concerned w/ mending my religious fences. Now, many years later, I don't know what my reaction would be. I have a rather vague belief that we continue after death in a conscious, dreamlike state, I'm not at all religious but that doesn't necessarily free me from my earliest indoctrinations as an innocent child. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I'm with you on the issue of faith and religion -- it just doesn't resonate. But it does make sense, to me, that our essence is spiritual. There's a lot of evidence of people having near death experiences that are quite amazing. There is also a lot of evidence of deceased spirits watching over their loved ones. So that element of spirituality is there. I believe that, in a sense, our spiritual selves are watching over us, that there are forces out there that we rarely see or have knowledge of. I believe that our path of humanity is merely a form of growth, a learning experience. I have no fear of death because I believe that I'll reunite with my spirit self someday. An interesting read is the "Conversations With God" series by Neal Donald Walsh. There's also a very good book about a brain surgeon's near death experience called "Proof of Heaven". 4 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Well, it's what I was taught growing up. It's my hope that this is all for the good. It's the best example I've found of how to live out my life. And it's the conclusion I always reach when I look to science, what we know of our universe - there's no way this is all random. The evidence for Intelligent Design is clear as day to me. That said - I am constantly turning it over, questioning it (my faith). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I have always since a little girl believed in an afterlife......my grandfather who i was really close too.....died when i was young...on the night he died he came to me in a dream ...and he looked like he used to look...not what he looked like when brain cancer had ravaged through his body and the treatments he endured...he was always a quiet man....stoic and gentle.....courageous and true......i love him so much...anyway.....he came to me and told me not to worry ever...not to be sad or cry for him....that he will see me soon and he had this white light all around him..when i awoke in the morning mum and dad were sitting on the lounge...tears in their eyes...and said to me we have something to tell you deb.....i told them not to worry i was ok i knew grandpa had died and told them about my dream...mum still talks about it...we know theres a god .....we know there's jesus...and we know our ancestors are waiting for us...... my step dad isnt so much of a believer.....which is a real shame...he used to say to my mother all the time you want to be a martyr ..because we believe in gentleness...kindness.... we believe wholly in service to others...all the things god wants us to do while we are here......we volunteer readily..... i believe if all people knew about the other side how beautiful pain free and pure the afterlife will be...everyone would want to do good.....would feel a sense of relief.....because all their worries would then be for god...that pain...is going to end one day and we can rest...i understand there ar people who dont believe and i respect that...but its more than belief for me.....it gives my life a purpose ...the struggles i go through a certain reason to happen.......my loved ones who have gone on...the promise of seeing them again....makes me joy full because i miss them...muchly my grandfather still visits me in dreams......as young as i remember him to be still as gentle, wise and firm and he still loves me...even though i feel i have failed......even though i feel i fall short and am not worthy of having faith often...i know that god is true....that jesus died for us.......and that because he died ..my family,myself and all people have been given a chance to live forever because god believes in us...not just because we believe in him...although...it helps.. how can we not love god and beleive in him...he has given us...so much love.....his son....jesus...is love personified ...deb 8 Link to post Share on other sites
sagetalk Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I I've read books on apologetics, and those just don't work. I don't feel belief in my heart. So I'd love to hear why you believe in God, Jesus, and/or an after life. Life seems pretty grim without at least one of those things. At least to me. Read the Bible, forget apologetic books. It answers the questions you are seeking. Seek to have a personal relationship with God. Do not relate your relationship with him to a building or group of people. It is a one on one relationship above all else. I live my life by the following Biblical principles (and many more): How can you find joy in life? John 15: 9-12 Show love to others and obey God to find joy How can you learn, grow, make yourself stronger as a young Christian? 1 Corinthians 14: 1 - 5 Speak in tongues and to edify (train) yourself How do you give God what he is due? Deuteronomy 14: 22-27 (Tithing) Give God the first fruits of your labor by celebrating with him and all that he has given you. Note the specific instructions and how much freedom you have in this. It is not dropping money in a church plate, it is about celebrating with God by using his money to do something that brings you joy and closer to God. It must always be a celebration together with Him in whatever way you give to Him. This kind of thinking will change your life and rigid view of God. How do you find peace? 1 Peter 3:11 Turn away from evil and do good Every answer you could desire to find is in there. Do not look to other men, read the words for yourself and develop a personal relationship with God that will never die. Never blame God for anything, for he is perfect. Always thank Him in all circumstances. Love, Forgive, have mercy, seek peace, pray for everyone that you encounter when it is possible. I believe because this is the greatest story ever told. It is founded on love (real love, not romantic love) with the promise of an eternity with the creator of the Universe. The story of the Son of God, Yeshua (Jesus) coming to earth to die for us as a perfect sacrifice as a lowly carpenter so we could be seen as perfect in the eyes of the Almighty Father God. Though our sins are many, His death and blood can make us white as snow and innocent again. Then that God would send His precious Spirit to us to lead us and guide us in all things until the day we are all united together to worship Elohim for ever and ever. That is my hope, my reason to live, my reason to die, my everything. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) By daily Bible reading and prayer to get to know Jesus Christ my faith has been built. As I've done that God has performed miracles in my life for years. He'll do this for anyone who wants to get to know Him. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you as you read His word, the Bible. "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity." Jeremiah 29:13,14. This is the prayer Jesus Christ prayed for believers shortly before He was crucified. 20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” John 17:20-26 Edited June 1, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BC1980 Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 So many good answers from everyone. Thank you. I think I'm learning that it isn't about proof, which is what I clung to for so long. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 For myself, God is the imperturbable/impermeable Truth. Humans have many interpretations of the truth and humanity's agreement of what the inconvertible truth is......is nearly impossible. We are perceptive, emotional and biologically driven towards a skewed reality. No two people will see/hear/touch/taste interpret and therefore report their environment identically...which is of course, perception and so far in our evolution, we have not superseded. Yet there really is one truth that simply is.....and is beyond our ability to objectively/universally interpret.....for me this is God. Not long ago we thought the world was flat, lobotomizing was reasonable treatment and slavery was sanctioned by God. Wait....humans don't do/think stuff like this anymore.... I believe in God (The Truth.) I believe that our perceptions/interpretations of God have always been the variable. I believe that each of us is no more or less important than a drop of water or a molecule in oxygen. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
brothers343 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Becouse I have faith, I have seen men do evil and I have also seen miracles happen through out my career. Plus...I always believed that one has a purpose in this life, How boring would it be if one goes through all the happiness and pain just to know that your just dirt and nothing more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I've always questioned God's existence, but, until recently, the answer never really mattered. I've dipped in and out of church. I've had periods where I didn't believe in God/Jesus, and I've had periods where I believed 100%. I've come to a point where I need something to hold onto, something to believe in, and I naturally looked to my faith to fill that hole. The only problem is that I have a difficult time believing in God and Christianity. It seems like faith matters a lot right now, but I'm coming up short on it. I've read books on apologetics, and those just don't work. I don't feel belief in my heart. So I'd love to hear why you believe in God, Jesus, and/or an after life. Life seems pretty grim without at least one of those things. At least to me. Hi BC1980, I appreciate your honesty. Its my personal opinion that God is not going to ask any more of you, than the honest quest you are on to find the truth. If its any consulation, I also believe that even if our faith is not 100%, that Christ's is and no matter what doubts you may have in your life, the time you asked Christ into your heart in faith, He will honor that for eternity. I believe God is a lot more merciful than we are even to ourselves. I believe in God, and specifically Jesus Christ for many reasons. One, the bible has always "made sense" to me. When I read it (and I've read many other holy books), I feel in my spirit it is true. Even if I don't have all the answers, it feels right to me. Two, intellectually, I have found the bible holds up philosophically. I don't think that will ever be enough to prove it to anyone, and I'm not saying there are no difficult passages (even Peter said some of Paul's teachings were hard to understand...if that's Peter saying that, I give myself some leeway), but for me it coalesces. Third, I have experienced many miracles in my life. Best wishes with your quest! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Cablebandit Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) You are having issues with faith because it is an invalid epistemology. Reading the bible is the quickest way to become a non believer as many former believers will tell you so I wouldn't suggest that. You've never seen a theological explanation take the place of a scientific explanation but you have seen the reverse of that. There is a reason for that. If you want to explore religion further, learn about the history of it. I find it fascinating as it gives us a look at what our ancestors perceived about the world around them. The Jews didn't and don't consider Jesus the messiah...start there and enjoy your journey. Try out Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M Edited June 2, 2016 by Cablebandit 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wed4ever Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I don't believe. I used to be a very devoted born-again christian. But, then all those hard questions I wondered in my mind got the best of me and thus concluded that there was most likely no god. Is there a god? I can't say for sure but what I am convinced about is that the bible isn't "the truth". Christianity us just a made up religion like the rest. No Jesus, no salvation, no special place for you.... sorry. Have you ever wondered why it takes faith to believe in god? Because there is no external evidence to his existence. IMO, brainwashing is the only way someone would believe in god (more specifically the god of the bible). Don't think that's true? Then why is the bible proclaimed to be absolute truth no matter what? Christians are taught not to think, but to believe by faith. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TSnal Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Life seems pretty grim without at least one of those things. At least to me. Life is intrinsically grim, and suffering is the default state. Even the Buddhists knew it. God, religion, notions of an afterlife; they are all coping mechanisms to deal with this fact. To make sense of the senseless. For most people, they merely 'believe' what makes them feel happy and secure, even if somewhere deep in their brain they know it's a lie. Link to post Share on other sites
Sabella Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I do believe we are spiritual beings and our bodies are just a vehicle, so I do believe in an afterlife in a sense. I've never felt comfortable in organized religion, and I was never raised in a particular faith. I've always however believed in a higher power and that the world is not all that it seems. I'm a very logical, prove it, type of person, but even since childhood I've had experiences I simply can't explain logically (seeing hearing and feeling spirits). For most of my adult life I just ignored these things or tried to rationalize them. So a few things happened that I could not ignore any longer or explain away. At one point, several years ago I was big into meditation and yoga. After meditating with a group of people we were simply just sitting around discussing meditation techniques... And I simply floated out of my body, about 3 feet above my head. I could see and hear everyone below me, though it sounded more distant. It was a short experience, but life altering. I know people won't believe this, I'm embarrassed to even discuss it because I know how it sounds. Crazy. But I know, in the very core of my being, that we are not just our bodies. I had another unexplainable and bizarre experience and my sister was there, experiencing the same thing. Too long to discuss here, but because she shared the experience I couldn't rationalize it away. We do live in an amazing world. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BC1980 Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Life is intrinsically grim, and suffering is the default state. Even the Buddhists knew it. God, religion, notions of an afterlife; they are all coping mechanisms to deal with this fact. To make sense of the senseless. For most people, they merely 'believe' what makes them feel happy and secure, even if somewhere deep in their brain they know it's a lie. I don't think using faith as a coping mechanism is a bad thing until you start infringing on others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BC1980 Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Then why is the bible proclaimed to be absolute truth no matter what? Christians are taught not to think, but to believe by faith. I grew up in a Baptist church and was taught not to question. When I went to a Methodist church, it was okay to question. I really think it depends on the denomination. Link to post Share on other sites
devilish innocent Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I don't believe in Jesus or an afterlife. I used to be an atheist, but now I'm closer to an agnostic. The reason is this. When I was in college, I wanted to be open to any possibilities. So I asked people of many different beliefs why they believed as they did. None of their arguments ever convinced me. Every religion was so sure of itself, but every religion contradicted the others. However, some people claimed that if I prayed to God to reveal him/herself to me, then they would. I was skeptical. I'd heard stories of other people finding "evidence" of God, and they all seemed like confirmation bias to me. But since then I've had three incidents happen where it would be really unfair for me to dismiss it as confirmation bias. The atheist part of me still cringes to say that. It's just these things had less than a one in a million chance of happening, and they happened right during the most meaningful moments of my life. I still can't say it's not just coincidence, but I have to admit that they have been very bizarre coincidences. I still don't think I believe in a traditional God. I do think it's likely there's an order to the universe that's beyond what we comprehend though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BC1980 Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 I don't believe in Jesus or an afterlife. I used to be an atheist, but now I'm closer to an agnostic. The reason is this. When I was in college, I wanted to be open to any possibilities. So I asked people of many different beliefs why they believed as they did. None of their arguments ever convinced me. Every religion was so sure of itself, but every religion contradicted the others. However, some people claimed that if I prayed to God to reveal him/herself to me, then they would. I was skeptical. I'd heard stories of other people finding "evidence" of God, and they all seemed like confirmation bias to me. But since then I've had three incidents happen where it would be really unfair for me to dismiss it as confirmation bias. The atheist part of me still cringes to say that. It's just these things had less than a one in a million chance of happening, and they happened right during the most meaningful moments of my life. I still can't say it's not just coincidence, but I have to admit that they have been very bizarre coincidences. I still don't think I believe in a traditional God. I do think it's likely there's an order to the universe that's beyond what we comprehend though. I think it's really difficult for us to admit that some things have no reason or don't make sense. We like answers. We like things to be black and white. We like to understand. So when weird things happen, I think we want to believe it's God, karma, the universe, ect. instead of a coincidence. I'm not saying what happened to you isn't God. I'm just wondering out loud. I feel like religion was probably the response to all that we don't understand. Think about something like a seizure. Years ago, people thought you were possessed, but that was because we didn't understand the brain like we do today. People gave seizures an answer that made sense to them at the time. I don't think I will ever have rock solid faith. That seems like a huge long shot for me, but I like to believe in God and an afterlife. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 So I'd love to hear why you believe in God, Jesus, and/or an after life. Life seems pretty grim without at least one of those things. At least to me. I have experienced several stages concerning why I believe in God, Jesus, and the afterlife. Stage 1: When I was a kid, I believed because my parents taught me about God, Jesus, and the afterlife. My parents are Christian, both raised in Christian homes. My Dad's Dad was a pastor for more than 40 years, before passing on to the afterlife. Though he was born on a farm and his parents hoped he would take over the farm when his 2 elder brothers were tragically killed by a drunk driver, he felt God's calling to be a pastor. He went to seminary, met his wife, and my Dad grew up as a pastor's kid in a humble yet loving church. My Mom's family had a hard past, with my Mom's paternal grandfather being an alcoholic who beat up his wife my Great Grandma. She turned to Jesus for comfort, though I don't know if she truly forgave her husband before she died. (She didn't attend his funeral.) God knows. Anyways, because my Great Grandma turned to Jesus for help when trapped in an abusive marriage, her sons (including my Papaw) learned about God too, and her grandchildren, and great grandchildren (including me). So, Christianity is part of my family's history. At 6 years old in my parents' humble church (not the one my Grandpa pastored at, since we lived far away from him), I freely and voluntarily decided to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior and get baptized. My parents always made it clear that it was my decision... I didn't have to if I didn't want to. It was very fun and exciting for me, and I remember being serious about it and joyful at the same time! At 12 years old at a Christian camp, I dedicated my life to Jesus Christ. I've never regretted it! Stage 2: In my 20s, I begin to rebel. I backslid in my relationship with Christ. It wasn't until I was at the end of my rope when I told God, fine - I will just be wild and do whatever I want, that I had an intense spiritual experience that I never had before or since. It was amazing. I was not on any drugs or alcohol, so it can't be explained away by those. I felt God's presence, and I felt His jealousy. His jealousy invoked in me the fear of the Lord, which I didn't have before. His jealousy proved to me how much He loves me. While jealousy in humans is bad, God in His original nature is not human. (God is incarnate in the form of Jesus Christ, when He put Himself in human flesh while at the same time being Omniscient... amazing.. science can't explain it. Jesus explains this in John 14.) Stage 2 is when my butterfly stage begin, in my opinion. It's when I became acutely aware of who God is on my own, without my parents or the instruction of any other human. It's when the Holy Spirit came to me. No I didn't start speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit, but there are other gifts (1 Corinthians 14). I did however begin falling intensely in love (not eros love, but agape love) with my Creator! :love: So to briefly recap why I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the afterlife. 1.) My parents taught me about them at a young age. 2.) My family's history includes Christianity. 3.) I personally experienced God via the Holy Spirit. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I have always since a little girl believed in an afterlife...... Me too my grandfather who i was really close too.....died when i was young...on the night he died he came to me in a dream ...and he looked like he used to look...not what he looked like when brain cancer had ravaged through his body and the treatments he endured...he was always a quiet man....stoic and gentle.....courageous and true......i love him so much...anyway.....he came to me and told me not to worry ever...not to be sad or cry for him....that he will see me soon and he had this white light all around him..when i awoke in the morning mum and dad were sitting on the lounge...tears in their eyes...and said to me we have something to tell you deb.....i told them not to worry i was ok i knew grandpa had died and told them about my dream...mum still talks about it...we know theres a god .....we know there's jesus...and we know our ancestors are waiting for us...... That's so beautiful Deb!!! :love: Thank you so much for sharing your dream! I'm so thankful God gave you that dream; what a blessing! Truly, the greatest blessings are spiritual ones, not material ones! my step dad isnt so much of a believer.....which is a real shame...he used to say to my mother all the time you want to be a martyr ..because we believe in gentleness...kindness.... we believe wholly in service to others...all the things god wants us to do while we are here......we volunteer readily..... It's not wanting to be a martyr, it's wanting to love - like Jesus loves. i believe if all people knew about the other side how beautiful pain free and pure the afterlife will be...everyone would want to do good.....would feel a sense of relief.....because all their worries would then be for god...that pain...is going to end one day and we can rest...i understand there ar people who dont believe and i respect that...but its more than belief for me.....it gives my life a purpose ...the struggles i go through a certain reason to happen.......my loved ones who have gone on...the promise of seeing them again....makes me joy full because i miss them...muchly Amen, eloquently stated!!! my grandfather still visits me in dreams......as young as i remember him to be still as gentle, wise and firm and he still loves me... I'm so happy God has blessed you with dreams of your grandfather. even though i feel i have failed......even though i feel i fall short and am not worthy of having faith often... Me too. Everyone has. i know that god is true....that jesus died for us.......and that because he died ..my family,myself and all people have been given a chance to live forever because god believes in us...not just because we believe in him...although...it helps.. how can we not love god and beleive in him...he has given us...so much love.....his son....jesus...is love personified ...deb Amen!!! Beautifully and eloquently stated, from the heart!!! :love: Link to post Share on other sites
wed4ever Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I grew up in a Baptist church and was taught not to question. When I went to a Methodist church, it was okay to question. I really think it depends on the denomination. I tried out many denominations. Yeah for sure, some are more tolerant than others. Another reason that I tapped out of religion was seeing how much christianity changes with culture and society. They only adhere to the scripture they feel comfortable with. Christianity was different 40 years ago. It will be different again 40 years from now too. That bothered me. God was supposed to be immutable. What was sinful in 200 A.D. should be just as sinful today and what pleased him then should also please him the 'same' today. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BC1980 Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Another reason that I tapped out of religion was seeing how much christianity changes with culture and society. They only adhere to the scripture they feel comfortable with. Christianity was different 40 years ago. It will be different again 40 years from now too. That bothered me. God was supposed to be immutable. What was sinful in 200 A.D. should be just as sinful today and what pleased him then should also please him the 'same' today. Hmmm, I don't quite agree with that. I think religion must change in response to societal changes. For instance, religion must change in response to science. I don't think the core beliefs of Christianity have changed. The belief in the Trinity for example. The belief in life after death as another example. I think that the Bible is trying to communicate a religious truth that is interpreted in different ways based on the situation. My own faith has changed over the years. The faith I had as a child is not the faith I have today. My faith has responded in different ways to my life experiences. I think that faith and the Bible are living and breathing, and they will necessarily have to change as time goes on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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