Held in contempt

[Lobe]

We are just over 18 months past d-day. Most days, life is treacherously normal, a welcome reprieve from perpetual triggers of 2015. And yet, every once in a while, I feel like my husband showed the contempt he did while he was cheating. I mean, while he was with his OW the contempt was palatable, all day, every day. Now, I only feel it in passing, but I wonder, would he say such things if he was truly remorseful? Does he still pine for her? Am I just foolish? Something as simple as whether I ought to joke about "cunnilingus week" since he gets "blowjob week" turns into, "well, this is what you signed up for" and "the OW didn't seem to mind..."

 

Despite a strong "marriage" committed to kids and family, he discovered a whole world of Dom/sub during his affair that I just can't keep up with. While in a false reconciliation I felt debased and dehumanized by his sexual aggression whereas she liked being choked to blackout, being gagged during fellatio, and acted out rape fantasies, things my WS says he didn't realize he enjoyed until the affair. When he choked, slapped, and became physically aggressive with me it felt like a reminder of when I was molested. But of course, she told him it was sexy when he was aggressive. And I've tried to let him live out that fantasy but afterwards I just feel ****ty. Used. Like I'm trying to live up to her. Who wants to spend the rest of their life trying to live up to the mistress? Should I buy a bracelet that says WWowD instead of WWJD?

 

Part of me wants to believe that the affair fog is responsible for this mess. Part of me wants the whole Freudian/Oedipal complex thing to be fact. But most of me thinks I'm just never going to be able to compete with the woman who said, you can completely dominate me. I am far too mentally, emotionally, and sexually secure with "vanilla" sex to want/need domination.

 

I have my hurt but I honestly hold no judgement - everyone has their sexual taste. I work in a field where it is common knowledge that several friends and colleagues participate in alternate lifestyles ranging from bdsm to polyamory, which while most of us have dabbled, isn't a lifestyle we intend to invest in. At this point, as liberal minded as I am, I guess I'm publicly mourning the fact that my marriage is over the second I admit blow job week is not ok if cunnilingus week isn't a thing.

 

When I allude to issues about sex my husband is sometimes detached, but mostly I feel his contempt towards me. It's sometimes obvious and painful while other times as simple as him just ignoring me, on principal's sake. WTF?! Why does he get to be angry?

 

Do you think he feels guilt over his sexual proclivities and takes it out on our family? Is there any way for a non-sub to fulfill a dom's sexual desires when it's not a bonding experience but one during which my husband shames and humiliated me for being a "prude"?

 

He says the affair was selfish, but he has never said that he thinks he would never cheat again. "I didn't think I would this time, so how can I say I won't again?" I had gained 100lbs, we were not sexually active, we got derailed... Which I know is not a justification for him to have an affair but he throws it in my face that "WE" made choices. I made a choice to join WW, he made a choice to uncover his alter ego sexual Dom character.

 

My mind keeps saying, leave. I don't know why I'm even bothering, except maybe wanting to win his love back so that I can be dominant and dump him. What is wrong with me? Does this kinda crazy ever go away?

 

Really, reading this back to myself the answer is obvious. I guess I just need to hear it. Fire away.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lobe
Edited for typos...

[dichotomy]

Did the two of you have any extended couples therapy?

 

Yes it still sounds like is is harboring resentment. To even mention out-loud "well the OW did not seem to mind" would have been enough to through him out the door after dDay.

 

While to a certain extent you are to be commended for trying to rev up your sex life and try new things - if BDSM is not your thing - its not your thing. Nor might it be many women's thing if your husband was tossed out the door and dating again.

[jenkins95]

Lobe

 

Did he really say "well the OW did not seem to mind"?

 

Did he really think that this was acceptable or that you would find this amusing? I find it disgusting that he said that - it's one thing to be able to openly mention his affair and not hide it away - that works for some re-conciliating couples, but to make that kind of a crude joke is way off the mark in my opinion. It makes light and trivialises the affair, which I think is unacceptable. If I had said that to my wife, it may well have been the end of our marriage right then and there in that second. I think he needs to knwo that that kind of comment is not acceptable.

 

I want to give you a big (((hug))) just for that - just reading those words makes me cringe.

 

It's so unfair that the BS is often left to feel inadequate after their WS had an affair. I know my W struggles with this too and I try to reassure her as best I can. It is one of the many injustices that comes out of the selfishness of indulging in an affair. You should never have to compete with anyone else once you commit to someone. Remember that you are by default a better person than her because she cheated and you didn't.

 

18 months is still relatively early days, and on the balance you guys seem to be doing well. Keep going and don't be afraid to tell him if certain remarks, attitudes or actions are not acceptable. One of his commitments post A should be to make sure he is doing everything to show you that he wants you and is totally committed to you and he should never knowingly make you feel uncomfortable or inadequate.

 

Good luck to you both and keep posting to us Lobe!

 

J

Edited June 3, 2016 by jenkins95

[wmacbride]

Have you outright asked your ws why he chose his marriage over his ow?

 

I'm not , in any way, blaming you for the situation you are in, but it sounds like it's getting close to reaching a breaking point for you. If sex has become more of an exercise in self depreciation and loathing, and if the rleationship is bringing you down instead of building you up then you might need to ask yourself the tough question of whether or not you can see yourself staying in this long term.

 

You have every right to telly our H that you do not enjoy his newly discovered turnons, and you shouldn't feel that you have to engage in behavior you find upsetting or painful just to keep him in your life.

 

I would recommend that you sit him down and tell him exactly how you are feeling, that you have tried to meet his needs and are finding that it's making you unhappy. The two fo you will need to figure out what your next steps will be, but if he's into BDSM and you are not, it could well be a breaking point for your relationship.

[Mrs. John Adams]

My first reaction after reading this was to give him a dose of his own medicine.

 

Lobe,

 

No one....should have to endure what you have been through...and unfortunately for you...the nightmare seems to be continuing.

 

I hope you are in therapy....I pray you have a support system in place....

 

A year is a very short time in the scheme of things.....but he does not display any signs of remorse....and he is not attempting to make you feel safe. In other words....he may have ended his affair...but that's about all he has graciously given you.

 

Has he read the linda macdonald book...how how to help your spouse heal from your affair? Because quite honestly...I don't hear any progress toward reconciliation.

[elaine567]

Seems he has you doing the humiliating "pick me" dance and he is thus "forcing" you to do things sexually that you are not happy with, so that you get to keep him and he will not go back to her.

Unfortunately that is probably not really going to work as both your and his resentment builds.

He knows you are doing it to please him and not because you like it. Seems more like punishing you for making him give up his mistress than true BDSM, which should be a mutually enjoyable experience.

Edited June 3, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed url to commercial site

[lemondrop21]

Should I buy a bracelet that says WWowD instead of WWJD?

Good to see you have a little sense of humor about this - I know the situation overall is awful, but this little joke made me smile and think that you're an awesome lady who will get through this just fine regardless of the outcome.

 

He says the affair was selfish, but he has never said that he thinks he would never cheat again. "I didn't think I would this time, so how can I say I won't again?"

Granted I have never been through R, but isn't this REALLY important? He should be 100% saying he will never cheat again after seeing what it's done to you. It seems to me that the WORST case scenario should be him saying, "If I find I cannot recommit to you emotionally and physically then I will do the right thing and leave the marriage rather than cheat on you again."

 

Really, reading this back to myself the answer is obvious. I guess I just need to hear it. Fire away.

Never discount your gut feelings... especially in this type of situation. You were never swept away by "affair fog" - you were purely the victim. If anyone in this situation has the ability to make rational decisions based on their gut, it's you.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this and I found it truly heart-wrenching to read. I am trying to be more neutral on these boards, but I strongly feel that the way your husband is treating you is NOT okay. You deserve better and I hope that things get better regardless of the path you choose. Hugs.

[BetrayedH]

I'm just going to come out and say that you need to dump his sorry ass.

 

Affairs can deliver a real blow to the ego of a betrayed spouse. The feeling of rejection from the one person who was supposed to be a guaranteed supporter is tough to handle. And while trying to be sexually open was probably a noble effort at first, his humiliation form of doninance is further eroding your self-worth. Just staying with someone who should treat us better is rough enough on your self-pride. This is making it exponentially worse.

 

Look, you don't have any reason for your self-esteem to be in the toilet. Your H is the one with piss poor judgment and is obviously off the charts selfish. He made some really crappy decisions that hurt the one person he was supposed to protect. He had lots of other choices that he could have made. That's on him. The fact that he's unremorseful, makes comparisons to the OW, and can't even give you the respect of a promise not to repeat his performance shows that he doesn't deserve you.

 

Take your power back. Kick his ass to the curb because he doesn't deserve you. Will it be tough to alone for a while? Sure. But you will recover and you'll eventually be quite proud of the fact that you stood up for yourself. The alternative is a life sentence being treated like crap and feeling worse about yourself because you take it.

 

Put a stop to this. Quietly get your ducks in a row. Get a consult from an attorney on your options. Get a retainer together. Develop a support network. Make plans. And when you're ready, drop the hammer. In the meantime, have as many "headaches" and "sorry, I'm on my period" excuses at the ready as possible. Want to put him off for a while? Say something about a strange discharge that you need to get checked out.

 

But get yourself out of there. And start to heal. Trust me. You will eventually look back and say to yourself, "Thank God I'm not with that ass hole anymore" and you'll just be upset you stayed so long. So get to it. And frankly, start looking forward to your next life. It is out there waiting for you.

[understand50]

He says the affair was selfish, but he has never said that he thinks he would never cheat again. "I didn't think I would this time, so how can I say I won't again?" I had gained 100lbs, we were not sexually active, we got derailed... Which I know is not a justification for him to have an affair but he throws it in my face that "WE" made choices. I made a choice to join WW, he made a choice to uncover his alter ego sexual Dom character.

 

My mind keeps saying, leave. I don't know why I'm even bothering, except maybe wanting to win his love back so that I can be dominant and dump him. What is wrong with me? Does this kinda crazy ever go away?

 

Really, reading this back to myself the answer is obvious. I guess I just need to hear it. Fire away.

 

Lobe,

 

First, stick to your guns. DO not do anything that you personal feel that you so not want to do. It is his fantasy. I think, that he is wanting the family, but not really sorry for the pain and hurt he caused. He has some growing up to do.

 

If it was me, I would tell him, that the marriage is very shaky, and he risks losing you. Sexual pleasure, does not in the end, make up for the loss of a marriage. My advise is to layout boundaries, and stick to them. If he starts cheating again, then divorce. BTW, I tend to advocate reconciliation, but in order for that to work, the BS must show and LIVE remorse. Must acknowledge that they did wrong, and, most importantly, will not do it again. Your husband is not there, and until he does, you are not in a reconciliation, but doing all the work to hold on. He just here until he can find another. I would not put up with this. I do no think MC will work you you right now, but your husband will need to go to individual therapy, to work out is problems. Until he realizes just what he has done, he will never be able to have a full reconciliation, but just a living arrangement with you.

 

Your weight gain has nothing to do with this. He married you, and both of you will change during your life and his time will come. Lose weight because you want to, because it is the right thing for you. It may give you the confidence to stand up for yourself, and in the long run is the healthy thing to do. But remember, you did not choose to gain weight, he chose to cheat, not the same thing, not even close. Do not except this excuse. You are worth much more then this.

 

I wish you luck......

[Lobe]

The weight gain was all on me - I was the one who cut him off sexually and emotionally, because I couldn't get my poop in a group. I have not used this to excuse his behaviour but I do understand how ignored and frustrated he felt. However. Neither he nor I think that made the affair justifiable.

 

We've done counselling, both as individuals and as a couple. We both continue to work on ourselves and the marriage. It's when the triggers come that the demons come and play in the daylight. He certainly isn't making me do a pick me dance and a lot of the OW things (like her not minding that blow job week wasn't reciprocated with cunnilingus week) are not new things he says but rather remnants of what came to light during months of trickle truth. Certain comments he made about her - about the way she made him feel, about being surprised that he liked rough sex - have just stuck to my psyche like burrs on a dog's backside. He has told me that he isn't comparing us sexually but after 15 years together (his affair was ~6 months) rather than me finding his new moves sweet that he's trying or exciting that we can still be spicy for old folks, I just wonder if it's something she taught him. I know better than to ask - the answer won't matter because the question shouldn't even exist.

 

We do have an amazing relationship now. He's read the Linda MacDonald book and he does and says the right thing. I hate hashing over it again and again though - do I really need to ask all the things, all over again? Because all the asking in the first place is what got the insecurity barbs stuck in my flesh in the first place. All of this crazy, is all me - and every time it bubbles to the surface I question if I will ever really get over it, not because my WH isn't willing to do the work but because I can't turn off my brain.

 

I know "they" say 2 years, minimum, but "they" also say the triggers never go away. So if the triggers never go away, do I stay with the person who created them for better or for worse, or go find someone else and subject them to a life of my psychosis? I am so done feeling shell shocked, of not knowing where or when the next trigger is going to be. I am a control freak and I am unsure if I can endure a lifetime of feeling like he can never say sorry enough times to make the triggers stop. It's not really fair to either of us, is it?

 

I wish I could scoop my brain out, wash it of the affair, and put it back. Wasn't that a movie...?

[66Charger]

There is nothing you can do here.

 

Let s put the cheating and disrespect aside for the moment. Think of it this way, instead of bdsm, what if it were another guy? Can you change someone by force or the threat of loss? No. He is who he is, and you are who you are. There is no competition with the ow. There is no winning. No prize.

 

What there is, is a loss of time and the precious moments that are your life. You tried to force yourself to submit and all you felt was disgusted. The comments on no cunninligus week is truly telling. All for him and none for you? Whats that about? Never been with a woman who would agree to that.

 

Whatever you decide, never submit your dignity. Be who you are. And allow him to be who he is....with someone else.....permanently.

[Lobe]

There is nothing you can do here.

 

Let s put the cheating and disrespect aside for the moment. Think of it this way, instead of bdsm, what if it were another guy? Can you change someone by force or the threat of loss? No. He is who he is, and you are who you are. There is no competition with the ow.

 

DING DING DING we have a winner! THIS is exactly what I fear. And if he "came out" because he watched some porn and found some repressed sexuality and we had worked through it together, it would be one thing. But it came out because he was having an affair. Was he seduced by her and dabbled in it because the opportunity presented itself? Or is he just repressing it because he wants to save our marriage? He swears he doesn't need/want the bdsm but in my experience it's like coming out as gay or atheist or whatever - once you're out, going back in is torture (and not the sexy fun kind lol) I think this is where the contempt comes from. And I don't think he's even conscious of how much he betrays himself. We talked about it as nauseum but I think he's lying to himself as much as me.

[gemini6]

Ok first, you are doing yourself a huge disservice by comparing yourself and your sex life to the OW and the fantasy of the A. Look, the OW probably wasn't all in to domination and rape fantasy as he thinks/thought - a lot of women do kinky sex in order to "hook" a guy. Now, I could be wrong and she might be the queen of kink BUT trying to "compete" or "compare" is just not right for you or your mind. He either loves you for who you are or he doesn't..please, please don't try to contort yourself into something you aren't to try and "keep" him..he's really really not worth it!

If My H EVER made a smart ass comment about what the OW did or did not like :mad:I'd tell him to get her! Have the F at it baby! Believe me when I say it won't take Gemini6 long at all to find a new sexy young stud to have hot kinky sex with so...bye bye dirt bag!

I really can't stand the ego on these cheaters!! I wouldn't continue to stoke his ego if you had a hot poker to my throat! grrrrrrrr! If anything, I'd be the first to knock him down a notch or two - does he actually think that he is worth keeping around?? HA!! As if!! The queen of kink could come and pick up the trash as far as I'm concerned and ride off into the sunset with it's stink! I'm positive that a good man. a young man, a sexy man, a man with morals and integrity would LOVE to have a wife like you NEVER stop knowing your own worth!!!

[Mrs. John Adams]

The weight gain was all on me - I was the one who cut him off sexually and emotionally, because I couldn't get my poop in a group. I have not used this to excuse his behaviour but I do understand how ignored and frustrated he felt. However. Neither he nor I think that made the affair justifiable.

 

We've done counselling, both as individuals and as a couple. We both continue to work on ourselves and the marriage. It's when the triggers come that the demons come and play in the daylight. He certainly isn't making me do a pick me dance and a lot of the OW things (like her not minding that blow job week wasn't reciprocated with cunnilingus week) are not new things he says but rather remnants of what came to light during months of trickle truth. Certain comments he made about her - about the way she made him feel, about being surprised that he liked rough sex - have just stuck to my psyche like burrs on a dog's backside. He has told me that he isn't comparing us sexually but after 15 years together (his affair was ~6 months) rather than me finding his new moves sweet that he's trying or exciting that we can still be spicy for old folks, I just wonder if it's something she taught him. I know better than to ask - the answer won't matter because the question shouldn't even exist.

 

We do have an amazing relationship now. He's read the Linda MacDonald book and he does and says the right thing. I hate hashing over it again and again though - do I really need to ask all the things, all over again? Because all the asking in the first place is what got the insecurity barbs stuck in my flesh in the first place. All of this crazy, is all me - and every time it bubbles to the surface I question if I will ever really get over it, not because my WH isn't willing to do the work but because I can't turn off my brain.

 

I know "they" say 2 years, minimum, but "they" also say the triggers never go away. So if the triggers never go away, do I stay with the person who created them for better or for worse, or go find someone else and subject them to a life of my psychosis? I am so done feeling shell shocked, of not knowing where or when the next trigger is going to be. I am a control freak and I am unsure if I can endure a lifetime of feeling like he can never say sorury enough times to make the triggers stop. It's not really fair to either of us, is it?

 

I wish I could scoop my brain out, wash it of the affair, and put it back. Wasn't that a movie...?

 

2-5 years for recovery

 

Reconciliation= lifetime

 

Triggers are forever .... And they occur with or without the wayward.

They occur less frequently with time and they become less severe... But after 33 I can tell you... They still happen.

 

Memories seldom completely fade away and that's exactly what a trigger is... A memory.

 

I am glad to hear he has read the book ... And I know you don't want to.. But you still need to be talking about this.

 

We are 33 years in reconciliation and we still talk about it. Now I don't mean dissecting details and all that crap.. But feelings and thoughts... Regrets and hope..... Communication is the biggest key in healing. You simply must talk.

 

You need to tell him how he makes you feel... You need to make him aware when he says something that hurts...

 

You see... Waywards are sometimes just not sensitive enough to understand how what they say and what they do reopens the wounds they caused... And while in a perfect world.. They would get that on their own... Obviously they don't.

 

If you don't tell him... He may truly be too stupid to see it.

 

For many years my husband simply kept his mouth shut... Until he was so diswrought and so depressed he would then lash out... He was like you.. It was easier to just remain quiet and bury it.

 

But you see ... All that did was postpone healing... If all those years we both had said what we were thinking... I believe remorse and forgiveness may have come sooner.

 

You need to make your wayward fully aware ... You need to show him that you value your relationship enough that you are willing to let him see your heart again... In protecting your heart from him... And that is absolutely ok.... You prevent him from seeing the full impact his cheating has had on you..

 

 

It's asking you to take a chance.. But it could be a turning point for the both of you.

 

It is taking back your power by becoming more vulnerable.. It is risky... But sometimes necessary in order to get to the next hurdle.

 

This is a process... One day at a time.. One step at a time...

[NTV]

Lobe,

 

 

When my wife cheated it was with a guy into that kind of thing. See, if she would have came to me and told me she liked it, I would have been all for it. But now that she wanted to discover that because of another man, I find I have no stomach for it. I won't do it to please her.

 

 

I don't think that bdsm or dom/sub is anything more than a preference. Most ice cream is good, and I have a fav flavor, right? well, just tell your wh that your ice cream truck isn't going to be serving that flavor.

 

 

I went through a similar phase to where I think you are now and I couldn't really call it anything other than a self-esteem crash. My self-esteem just tanked utterly. I had almost no self-value, and felt desperate to do whatever it would take to get her to love me again to hold the family together.... and then I hated myself for the weakness I saw in wanting those things.

 

 

There wasn't really a thought process or a way to escape it, more like you just have to wait it out really. But it's fun that the righteous anger phase seems to come next. Almost like a pendulum swinging I went from willingness to do almost anything to unwilling to do anything at all.

 

 

So... I guess I don't really have much advice that can help other than to tell you that the emotions you're going through right now are only a phase. and I wouldn't be surprised if in two months you're demanding a shift into "cunnilingus week" with no blowjob week or YOU'RE leaving him.

 

 

Either way, you aren't alone.

[Lobe]

Look, the OW probably wasn't all in to domination and rape fantasy as he thinks/thought - a lot of women do kinky sex in order to "hook" a guy.

 

please, please don't try to contort yourself into something you aren't to try and "keep" him..he's really really not worth it!

 

I don't know if she was or wasn't into BDSM, and on some level, like 66Charger mentioned, her motive is irrelevant if HE has discovered he actually has BDSM tendencies. Like I said, there's that part of me that wants it to be nicely wrapped up with some pop psychology thing about him "punishing" the OW with aggressive sex somehow being his way of punishing me. It's amazing how much our brains will twist things to feed the delusion required for self-preservation...

 

There was ONE episode of rough sex between him and I, a couple of days after d-day. He had decided to stay (what would turn out to be a false R) and I was completely caught off guard as we had never engaged in anything that involved rough play. What was normal sex for him with her, was completely abnormal for us. I told him that he should have asked if he could slap or choke me, because in the end I didn't feel dominated I just felt raped and violated. Shortly after that, he left (stayed with family not the OW) to sort his head out (he lasted 10 days before knowing what he wanted) and since the TT ended (unfortunately with the disclosure of this whole BDSM thing) he has ultimately been the textbook definition of a remorseful and supportive WH.

 

FWIW, he has never asked me to play submissive, even after full disclosure - I put that upon myself to try. While we agreed to try some role play and set our own boundaries, I still couldn't stop feeling like I was trying to live up to some fantasy that we all know I could never live up to. Since that failed exploration, I have been clear that if he needs that degree of aggression I am not the person he needs to be with. And yet, every once in a while, when he gets a little too rough and I tell him to tone it down, that contempt comes creeping in. Perhaps it's contempt for himself I'm detecting because in order to make his marriage work he has to be someone he isn't. Who knows?

 

Is he worth keeping? Yes. Do I want to keep him if being with me he is just miserable? No. Do I think he pines for the OW? Definitely no. Do I think he pines for sexual freedom? Possibly. Is he actually looking at me with contempt or am I being triggered for no real reason? I have no idea.

[Lobe]

So... I guess I don't really have much advice that can help other than to tell you that the emotions you're going through right now are only a phase. and I wouldn't be surprised if in two months you're demanding a shift into "cunnilingus week" with no blowjob week or YOU'RE leaving him.

 

 

Either way, you aren't alone.

 

I needed this - I actually lol'd

 

And I pray it's a phase. I feel like I've gone down the damned rabbit hole. Again. ~bangs head on desk~

[Moxie Lady]

I am going to go a little against the grain here and say I dont think this is as much about BDSM as some others are saying.

 

First, BDSM is not about the dom slapping and choking the sub without her (usually a her) even expecting it. No one would like that, not even a true BDSM sub. BDSM involves communication and 2 sided consent and safe words. The true BDSM community does not mess around with these things.

 

Second, you say he had the affair and then started in with the BDSM thing. So he didnt leave for any supressed BDSM urges that he wanted to explore. Its my guess that the BDMS was really just his way of expressing his anger and trying to gain control over his life, really just simply abuse. Not a sexual lifestyle. I also think that is what he is continuing to do with you, blame shift all of this on you because you arent as interested in it as his OW and trying to use it on you as a way of expressing anger and control, not sexual satisfaction.

 

Most professionals dont look at BDSM as a sexual orientation. Rather they see it as a sexual deviation. Thus it is not "thats who he is" sort of thing. It may be his preference, or maybe not, and if it is maybe he chooses to live without it or maybe he doesn't. But either way its not on you. It's on him to explore these things in individual counseling and work out why he chose to have an affair in the first place, and how he can stop blame shifting it on you.

 

Sorry you are having to go thru this. you are very good at expressing yourself and I can feel your pain.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Shortly after that, he left (stayed with family not the OW) to sort his head out (he lasted 10 days before knowing what he wanted) and since the TT ended (unfortunately with the disclosure of this whole BDSM thing) he has ultimately been the textbook definition of a remorseful and supportive WH............And yet, every once in a while, when he gets a little too rough and I tell him to tone it down, that contempt comes creeping in.

 

 

Lobe, from reading your posts your H doesn't sound at all remorseful or supportive, either one, to me.

 

Before he had his A you mention you had cut him off sexually because you didn't have your stuff together (your words were different but same meaning). To me, that's indicative of some big personal and marital issues possibly not mentioned in your posts that it bears taking some time to examine and process, even here on LS, if you're wanting helpful advice from others.

 

That is not to say that he had a right to have an A. Far from it.

 

But it does influence advice from posters because, whereas your posts seem to be establishing that your issues with your H are his BDSM proclivities and the fact that he had an A, it seems you actually have more issues than that to deal with if you want to have a happy M with your H and to take into consideration when deciding whether or not to continue your M.

 

The way I see it you need to resolve:

 

1. The fact he had an A

 

2. Your difference in sexual preferences

 

3. The issues that influenced you to cut him off sexually before he had an A.

 

Again, NOT saying that his A was your fault or that he was entitled to have one.

 

Also want to mention that imho marital intimacy is not about sexual lifestyle preferences but about the physical and emotional expression of love.

 

When/if the two of you are genuinely in love there should be no problem weaving your sexuality together in a way that will delight and satisfy both of you.

 

I believe there is far more to deal with in your marriage than you realize. It seems the two of you want to stay together. Can't recall if you both are in IC, but I'd recommend it for both of you before beginning MC. You have a lot to resolve here.

Edited June 3, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease

[TrustedthenBusted]

Set your boundaries. Make them explicit and make sure they are reasonable. Clearly communicate them.

 

If they prove to be too much for him, leave.

 

I am a big fan of reconciliation, but not at the expense of ONE MORE OUNCE of dignity.

[dichotomy]

The sex issue with OW or OM is a terrible thing for many of us B.S.'s. I can only say I empathize and its been a subject of many of my marriage arguments and therapy sessions. I care less now (about everything) but it still upsets me 11 years later.

[HappyAgain2014]

The key distinction here is his lack of respect and sensitivity for you. A truly dominant man enjoys submission because his partner gives it. It's not taken. The submission is given because of trust and consent. I don't see any of these factors in your marriage.

 

What you have here is an inconsiderate fool who was exposed to something new by the OW. It gave him such a high that he wants it at all costs. Don't let the cost be your safety and self-respect.

 

You've given enough.

[Lobe]

Lobe, from reading your posts your H doesn't sound at all remorseful or supportive, either one, to me.

 

WH is a classic example of when good people make bad choices. The un-remorseful, un-supportive, nasty, bad and wrong things he said were in the first 3 months after d-day, and the fact that 18 months later they are stuck on repeat in my brain is not my husband's fault. After I made him read Linda MacDonald, he was amazing - the trickle truth finally ended, counselling started, and we've been humming along since.

 

And I forgot on LS (after lurking for a year) y'all want more backstory. Fine. But first, a note about the BDSM thing here. Really, it could have been that he learned he was into dressing up as a clown during sex and it wouldn't change the fact that if that's what he gets his jollies from, he found out while he was in bed with another woman. The point is, whether he pulls out a riding crop and ball gag or shows up in bed painted like Pennywise, I want to be perfectly clear that whether BDSM is "deviant" sexuality or a lifestyle choice is irrelevant to me, and I make no judgments. (Well, ok - I would probably have to murder him if he came to bed in pancake makeup because clowns. But I digress.)

 

Our "marital problems" that led to the affair are all very textbook. We got married, had some kids, fell into our ruts... and for the first decade it wasn't a big deal. It was my job to make the plans, to manage our lives, to ensure all our commitments were taken care of, including setting up date nights and weekends away from the kiddies. When the kids got older and I finally told him I was sick of being responsible for all the scheduling, including our alone time, I expected him to step up. Meanwhile, he thought that meant I was sick of him too, and that I didn't plan dates with him anymore because I just didn't want to spend time with him.

 

Both of us knew we were in a rut, and neither of us knew how to get out. We were watching our marriage turn into a train wreck in slo mo, both of us expecting the other person to make a move to show they wanted to save it, both of us thinking the other person didn't want to. Everything became personal. If I said I hated the house, he heard I hated him. If he said he wanted a holiday, I heard he wanted to get away from me. And through it all, I just assumed that somehow, someday, we'd have a life back and we could work on being a couple again, but that fairytale ending went out the window with the affair, didn't it?

 

We *should* have gone for counselling then, but instead, food became my mistress... I ate my way through the stress and gained so much weight I was too self-conscious to let him touch me (I take full responsibility for my own issues here - he never stopped telling me he wanted me and found me sexy until the A started) and he went and found a slippery wet spot for his peepee. We became the worst possible versions of ourselves. Through it all, we never stopped loving one another, we just didn't know how to find our way back and while I am in no way saying the affair was a "good" thing, it has certainly gotten us out of the rut we were in.

 

Neither of us accepts that any of that matters or justified the affair, but it helps that we both know how we got there and we are doing everything in our power to not get there again. We do IC and MC. (And I have no delusions that my IC counselling is over anytime soon... haha!) We do date night. We text and write letters and talk and hold hands like we did in the early days. We have taken classes together and have a joint gym membership. We've hashed over the affair ad nauseum, both outside of and in MC. He doesn't blame me, he hasn't said anything nasty, he hugs me when I am triggered and have a meltdown, he tells me when he's having a rotten day, and even though life isn't perfect, things are really really good.

 

The one thing that still consistently sets me off is sex.

 

Look. People say awful things in the heat of anger. I can't un-hear the things he said about me vs. her while he was in the affair fog. Part of it was him trying to hurt me, part of it was him justifying that he felt he deserved to have sex with someone since he wasn't getting any at home, and I admit a very large part of it was me stupidly asking for WAY more detail than I needed. I am working to get past the hurt and anger in IC.

 

For the record, he has never asked me to sub for him, and based on, uh... results... he doesn't have any issues/dysfunction enjoying sex with me, but sometimes when things are intense, he forgets himself and gets a little overzealous... and if I say whoa, cowboy, that's when I start questioning if I'm seeing contempt on his face. And if I am, is it because he wishes he could stop repressing his sexual desires and get the slap and tickle back in his life but with the woman he loves and has invested a lifetime with, or because when I tell him to simmer it's a slap in the face, a reminder of how much he hates himself for what he did to me? I suppose the logical thing would be to call him out on the anger I perceive when it's happening. Maybe it's all in my head. Sheesh - if he thought I was a killjoy talking about sex before, I can only imagine what stopping to say, "Hey, can we talk about why you have your "angry eyes" on right now?"

 

We've talked about the BDSM thing at length, and for THEM it was consensual but when he decided to try it with me ONCE, it was without consent. I told him how violated it made me feel and he said he is disgusted with himself for doing that to me. He's never asked or implied that he wants anything other. During trickle truth (which lasted about 3 months after d-day, arguably the worst 3 months of my entire freaking life) he rewrote the marriage and convinced himself that for years he had asked for more adventurous sex. Once the fog wore off he acknowledged that we had had exactly zero conversations about kink. (Heck, we had barely talked for two years by the time the A started!)

 

I don't want to punish WH - that won't accomplish anything - but I also haven't stopped talking about this sticking point (to him, in IC, in MC, here...) so obviously it's not resolved. I don't want to just "suck it up" or sweep it under the rug but really, I'm tired of feeling like I am throwing it in his face. I just want my fairytale ending back, dammit. Is it OK to wish for that, even though I know I will mourn the loss of that for like, ever?

[NTV]

I needed this - I actually lol'd

 

And I pray it's a phase. I feel like I've gone down the damned rabbit hole. Again. ~bangs head on desk~

 

 

 

I'm telling you, there's enough rabbit holes after you find out to destroy about 80 acres of corn fields.

 

 

This will pass. You know, around six months after I dday (8 if you count 2 months of trying to use alcohol to self-destruct) I was sitting there smoking a cigarette (bad, I know) and the sun was just right and the breeze passed just the right way and the thought just hit me: 'hey wait a second here... I'm ****ing awesome! I was awesome before I met her, awesome during our marriage, and regardless of whether we're still together I'm still... yup, you guessed it! Still ****ing awesome.

 

 

And that day was like the fever breaking for my self-esteem crash... you know, you're still sick, but you know you're also passed the worst of it.

 

 

Not saying you'll have a moment too... everyone heals differently and all... just saying that 'this too shall pass.' When you've reached bottom there is only one direction to go. Back up.

 

 

So this rabbit hole... yup not the last one. Not even close. But could it be the deepest and stinkiest and muddiest rabbit hole? Absolutely could. Only one direction you can go.

[merrmeade]

BetrayedH has a special compassion gene for BWs that do all the work and still give their WHs an undeserved margin.

... while trying to be sexually open was probably a noble effort at first, his humiliation form of doninance is further eroding your self-worth. Just staying with someone who should treat us better is rough enough on your self-pride. This is making it exponentially worse.

... not to mention what an incredible TRIGGER it is to try and reproduce the sexual acts he enjoyed with her during their affair. And for this to happen during sex! If for no other reason than that doing these new sex acts are associated for both of you with the sex he had with another woman are textbook definitions of triggers for you, you should not do them. Besides the fact that they are not your preference. But more than anything, that you feel compelled to please your husband by doing something that he did with his mistress - something that does not even appeal to you - is utterly degrading for you.

 

You are not the one that should be worried about whether you measure up, HE IS! HE should be groveling to you and thank his stars that you've agreed even to give him a second chance.

 

Everything about this aspect of your relationship just sounds so unhealthy and debasing for you. Isn't it something that you could take up in MC or even with a sex therapist?

 

And about the nasty remarks that keep triggering you:

The un-remorseful, un-supportive, nasty, bad and wrong things he said were in the first 3 months after d-day, and the fact that 18 months later they are stuck on repeat in my brain is not my husband's fault.

How is it not his fault? Are you trying to say it's your "fault"? Fault implies responsibility, choice and will. Are you willfully choosing to think about them? Isn't he the one that said them in the first place?

 

But another observation about this thing of not letting go of certain events or actions during the affair that you find particularly debasing - I did/do that and think it's that you were not properly vindicated and these items purged from your present focus. Perhaps you have not fully processed each thing that he said to you to your satisfaction - and I don't mean for your cognizant, thinking self - but to the satisfaction of your deeply injured psyche. I know I had things that simply would not go away until I finally did this - made my WH listen while I told him in detail why a certain set of events/attitudes/remarks were so devastating and clung to me for so long. It helped tremendously.