Wife wants kids...

[PrettyEmily77]

Thank you for being somebody who not only understands another culture but also understands that there are things you don't know about other cultures. The imposing of western values on other people is something that drives me mad. I don't mean to derail this thread, but I think it is very important that the OP understand he is getting advice from people who do not understand his situation at all.

 

That is shockingly patronising, DreamP.

 

Most people do actually understand this situation quite well. Not wanting to have a baby in a culture that reveres them is already going off tracks in terms of aligning to cultural traditions anyway, so they might as well go the whole hog and break free from the tradition altogether. Or have a rethinking about which bit of the cultural traditions they want to stick to.

 

ETA: Having read your last posts OP, it turns out it actually doesn't even have to do with following cultural tradition/values at all as you seem free from those anyway. If she wants kids more than she wants to stay married to you and if you want to be child-free more than you want to stay married to her, and if you have both discussed it at length and there is no way back, then finding a compromise will be difficult.

Edited June 9, 2016 by PrettyEmily77

[BettyDraper]

I'm going to add that being childfree is still controversial in the Western world.

 

I can only imagine how shocking it is in more openly traditional nations.

[Els]

T

I am 28 and my wife is 27.

 

In your 20s it's extremely common for people to change their viewpoints on things, often drastically. I think you're being a little too harsh on your wife - she might not necessarily be 'brainwashed' or 'trying to keep up with the Joneses', she might have legitimately changed her mind. The desire for children doesn't always kick in early.

 

Given that both of you are in a traditional culture, I sympathize, you have a hard road ahead. I don't think talking to her sister will help.

 

 

You went back to those same guys at 40 and see how many haven't followed that plan and actually regret it, it's probably not that many.

 

The question isn't who didn't follow it and regretted it, but rather who did follow it and regretted it - which might be an even lower %. Also it is worth bearing in mind that isn't not usually socially acceptable for anyone to say they regretted having kids.

 

So many people who retire early (or even at 65) end up going back to work, because they don't know what to do with themselves afterwards.

 

Yes, but there is a HUGE difference between HAVING to work and just doing the work you WANT to do. All the people I know who worked after retirement didn't continue the exact same work they were doing beforehand - they worked in low-stress jobs that they loved but paid little, which they were previously not able to afford to do with a family to support.

 

Not saying people shouldn't have kids if they want to, just that I don't see why people are trying to convince the OP that his plans are unrealistic.

[Hodor]

Got some updates. Nothing much has changed in her mood. Recently some auditing work came up and she requested her boss that he sends her for it. So she is gone for 3-5 days. I guess she wanted to have some alone time or something because of so much tension between us.

I got a chance to meet her sister alone. She understands my problem but cant think of a way to help me. I felt she was playing it very safe. She neither agreed nor disagreed with me. She didnt say it directly but she was hinting that she would rather stay out of this matter and we should try to sort it out ourself.

I sat down, thought about it again and concluded that I dont want to change my position about having kids. If it costs the marriage then so let it. Also I cant drag this any further. So when my wife returns I will sit down and ask clearly if she is willing to risk the marriage for kids.

[BlueIris]

Got some updates. Nothing much has changed in her mood. Recently some auditing work came up and she requested her boss that he sends her for it. So she is gone for 3-5 days. I guess she wanted to have some alone time or something because of so much tension between us.

I got a chance to meet her sister alone. She understands my problem but cant think of a way to help me. I felt she was playing it very safe. She neither agreed nor disagreed with me. She didnt say it directly but she was hinting that she would rather stay out of this matter and we should try to sort it out ourself.

I sat down, thought about it again and concluded that I dont want to change my position about having kids. If it costs the marriage then so let it. Also I cant drag this any further. So when my wife returns I will sit down and ask clearly if she is willing to risk the marriage for kids.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, but it happens sometimes and you have to make your choices. Sometimes one or the other just changes position on something that was integral to the agreement to marry.

 

I'm divorced for that very reason; my husband completely changed position about something that we had agreed upon when we married, something that was essential to me. I understood why he changed position and his reasons for doing it, but the bottom line was that I never would have married him and agreed to the life he later wanted if I had known ahead of time that that would happen. So, I understand and sympathize. It isn't easy.

[Hodor]

Big fight today. I finally mentioned parting ways and she became quiet upset. Well quiet upset is an understatement because she bursted into tears. That was the point where I had to stop and leave the house. When I returned she was asleep.

 

We finally got sometime together yesterday and went for a comedy movie. It cheered us up a little. Today morning everything seemed normal. Lunch time we both were in good mood so I told her lets talk and lets come to some decision. The talk began normally with how bringing a kid would change our life. She was going on and on with all positive things. She had answers to all my questions. She said the plan would need to be pushed back i.e. instead of 40, retiring at 50. I asked what if the kid cant stand on his own by then? What if he/she will still be dependent on us. She said we should have some faith in our parenting.

 

To make long story short, I told her this is not happening. I told my reasons which I have told her 100s of times. I even suggested seeing some counsellor and she replied to that by saying "I am not some mental patient who needs therapy". On the spur of the moment I told her I met her sister and she became pretty angry. She was like what sort of game am I trying to play. This lead to some heated argument and thats when I said the parting away thing.

 

Its 1.30AM Monday now. I cant sleep so I am watching Orange is The New Black. I dont know what to say when she wakes up. Dont know if she has planned anything. I really cant read the situation. Judging by her reaction I dont think divorce occurred to her. Completely clueless right now.

[Emilia]

I guess you two have to start discussing going on your separate ways.

[elaine567]

Judging by her reaction I dont think divorce occurred to her. Completely clueless right now.

I guess, she was convinced she could persuade you, hence all the rehearsed "positives". She didn't bank on you being so adamantly against having children. She can't really believe that kids are never on the cards as far as you are concerned, as most people even if they say they don't want kids are easily persuaded, as kids are seen as important in marriages. Once born they are loved and adored.

A friend of mine went through her twenties "hating" kids, she had a good career and that was her whole world. At 30 she met the man of her dreams, got pregnant found she was actually a "natural" and now has 4 kids and loves every minute of it...

 

I agree with Emilia, this will never work. Divorce is the only option, she cannot realistically be expected to sacrifice her whole life for this marriage.

[Hodor]

I guess you two have to start discussing going on your separate ways.

 

wow, my life is going to change in few hours.

 

I guess, she was convinced she could persuade you, hence all the rehearsed "positives". She didn't bank on you being so adamantly against having children. She can't really believe that kids are never on the cards as far as you are concerned, as most people even if they say they don't want kids are easily persuaded, as kids are seen as important in marriages. Once born they are loved and adored.

A friend of mine went through her twenties "hating" kids, she had a good career and that was her whole world. At 30 she met the man of her dreams, got pregnant found she was actually a "natural" and now has 4 kids and loves every minute of it...

 

I agree with Emilia, this will never work. Divorce is the only option, she cannot realistically be expected to sacrifice her whole life for this marriage.

 

Good for your friend. I thought I knew my wife but I didn't. I dont even know what goes in her mind these days.

 

I am holding myself back so hard to not say yes just because of the pressure. I dont want to bring a new life and then regret it later. I know there is no win-win situation here. No more discussions and no more lingering around this topic. I guess I have to stay strong and let her go.

[BettyDraper]

Big fight today. I finally mentioned parting ways and she became quiet upset. Well quiet upset is an understatement because she bursted into tears. That was the point where I had to stop and leave the house. When I returned she was asleep.

 

We finally got sometime together yesterday and went for a comedy movie. It cheered us up a little. Today morning everything seemed normal. Lunch time we both were in good mood so I told her lets talk and lets come to some decision. The talk began normally with how bringing a kid would change our life. She was going on and on with all positive things. She had answers to all my questions. She said the plan would need to be pushed back i.e. instead of 40, retiring at 50. I asked what if the kid cant stand on his own by then? What if he/she will still be dependent on us. She said we should have some faith in our parenting.

 

To make long story short, I told her this is not happening. I told my reasons which I have told her 100s of times. I even suggested seeing some counsellor and she replied to that by saying "I am not some mental patient who needs therapy". On the spur of the moment I told her I met her sister and she became pretty angry. She was like what sort of game am I trying to play. This lead to some heated argument and thats when I said the parting away thing.

 

Its 1.30AM Monday now. I cant sleep so I am watching Orange is The New Black. I dont know what to say when she wakes up. Dont know if she has planned anything. I really cant read the situation. Judging by her reaction I dont think divorce occurred to her. Completely clueless right now.

 

Your wife is someone who will have a rude awakening when she becomes a mother. She thinks that there are no negative aspects of having children. A person can be an amazing parent and still end up with a child who is not a successful adult. Your wife is approaching the prospect of parenting in a naive and unrealistic manner. She also seems rather ignorant about seeing a therapist as well but that could be due to cultural stigma. I'm surprised because your wife is modern and educated.

 

Since your wife has no qualms about involving family members in this personal decision, she has no reason to be angry because you contacted her sister.

 

I guess now it is time to talk about an amicable divorce. So sorry that you are going through this.

[elaine567]

Your wife is someone who will have a rude awakening when she becomes a mother. She thinks that there are no negative aspects of having children. A person can be an amazing parent and still end up with a child who is not a successful adult. Your wife is approaching the prospect of parenting in a naive and unrealistic manner.

 

I don't actually believe that, she is only being ultra positive in reply to his negativity, as she wants to persuade him to have kids with her, which in most marriages is not an unreasonable stance.

[BettyDraper]

I don't actually believe that, she is only being ultra positive in reply to his negativity, as she wants to persuade him to have kids with her, which in most marriages is not an unreasonable stance.

 

Since the OP's wife came into this marriage knowing full well that her husband didn't want children, it seems unreasonable to try to cajole him into such a life changing decision at this point.

 

If she wants children more than she wants the marriage, she needs to move on and find someone who also wants to raise kids.

 

Every parent I've known who thought parenting was going to be easy ended up eating their words once their children were born.

[Emilia]

This is what my comment referred to earlier in the thread on culture: the OP's wife I'm assuming had zero to very little relationship experience. She doesn't post on Loveshack, she doesn't have the sort of grounding that we have when it comes to managing expectations and comparing values.

 

She got married to the OP, in her culture people get married in their 20s. She liked the OP and she said yes to the 'no kids' part without really knowing what she was getting herself into.

 

Then the nagging started by friends and family - I'm pretty sure. She changed her mind but the OP is not budging.

 

What to do? There is only one answer - unless the OP wants to keep arguing for years or have a child and resent it. Or his wife ending up resenting him and stop sex.

[Hodor]

This is what my comment referred to earlier in the thread on culture: the OP's wife I'm assuming had zero to very little relationship experience. She doesn't post on Loveshack, she doesn't have the sort of grounding that we have when it comes to managing expectations and comparing values.

 

She got married to the OP, in her culture people get married in their 20s. She liked the OP and she said yes to the 'no kids' part without really knowing what she was getting herself into.

 

Then the nagging started by friends and family - I'm pretty sure. She changed her mind but the OP is not budging.

 

What to do? There is only one answer - unless the OP wants to keep arguing for years or have a child and resent it. Or his wife ending up resenting him and stop sex.

 

This point was brought up and she acknowledges this. She said in marriage nothing in permanent. Things do change. She feels our life is incomplete. Living alone and planning to move away from friends, relatives and parents is not right. Basically the lifestyle we are living right now is majorly designed by me and she is not liking it anymore.

 

So I couldnt sleep the whole night. She got up like around 7 and asked me just one thing whether I was serious about divorce? I was little mad so I said Yes without looking at her. In couple of hours she left for somewhere but not office. I didnt ask where are you going or tried stopping her. Got a call from my dad. She went to my parental home. My dad asked whats going on and I told him. Turns out my mom along with my wife have gone to meet her sister and mother. Now I dont know what all of them are discussing. But the whole family is involved now. This is something which I knew would happen eventually. My dad asked me to come but I told him not now. I am angry, tired and sleepless so I dont want to go with a clouded mind. Maybe I will go tomorrow.

 

I feel an intervention coming.

[stillafool]

They can't just make you want a baby and they should really stay out of your marriage.

[elaine567]

They can't just make you want a baby and they should really stay out of your marriage.

I guess it is cultural, the OP is in India.

This is an arranged marriage the families will be very much involved.

[stillafool]

I guess it is cultural, the OP is in India.

This is an arranged marriage the families will be very much involved.

 

I don't understand, if this was an arranged marriage didn't they all know before the marriage that OP didn't want kids? Why are they questioning him now?

[elaine567]

...if this was an arranged marriage didn't they all know before the marriage that OP didn't want kids?

 

Probably, but no-one I guess really believed it. They assumed it was the usual "I don't want kids", but 3 kids later everyone is playing happy families and loving it.

His parents, her parents all want them to have kids.

He is on his own here.

[elaine567]

This point was brought up and she acknowledges this. She said in marriage nothing in permanent. Things do change. She feels our life is incomplete. Living alone and planning to move away from friends, relatives and parents is not right. Basically the lifestyle we are living right now is majorly designed by me and she is not liking it anymore.

 

So it is not just about kids is it, it is your whole future life plan that she now disagrees with.

[SummerDreams]

You can't bring a kid to the world whose father does not want it! It's unfair and sad and wrong. This woman should face the consequences of her actions. She married a man knowing he wanted a certain lifestyle and she agreed to it. She can't change opinions for such important life changing issues. She has to accept it and divorce rather than try to trap her H in a lifestyle he hates and convict her kid into having a father who resents it.

[Hodor]

I don't understand, if this was an arranged marriage didn't they all know before the marriage that OP didn't want kids? Why are they questioning him now?

 

I dont know the extent to which they knew. Both our families are not so much interfering. I used to meet my wife alone and discuss all this pre marriage. I dont know what she shared and what she didn't with her parents.

 

As for my parents my mom always thought I would eventually come along. She now realizes how serious I am. She is fully supporting my wife. I need to talk with dad to understand where he stands in all this. As far as I know him he wont interfere much. He knows I am not a kid anymore and would leave me to decide the final outcome.

 

I havent interacted much with her family to be honest. Other than occasional dinners we rarely even spoke on the phone.

 

So it is not just about kids is it, it is your whole future life plan that she now disagrees with.

 

Yep. She hates the whole plan. But she is willing to compromise. Once the kid is independent then we can go and live wherever we want. So instead of doing it at 40 we do it at 50.

 

You can't bring a kid to the world whose father does not want it! It's unfair and sad and wrong. This woman should face the consequences of her actions. She married a man knowing he wanted a certain lifestyle and she agreed to it. She can't change opinions for such important life changing issues. She has to accept it and divorce rather than try to trap her H in a lifestyle he hates and convict her kid into having a father who resents it.

 

I dont know whats going on in their meeting. I hope other sees it the way you see it. I know I wont be changing my mind, so there is no question of brining the kid anymore. Moreover even if my wife changes her mind now nothing will be the same again.

[SummerDreams]

Yep. She hates the whole plan. But she is willing to compromise. Once the kid is independent then we can go and live wherever we want. So instead of doing it at 40 we do it at 50.

 

Or she will change her mind AGAIN and come up with a totally different plan that you will need to follow again. Marriage is about common path and compromises from both parties, not compromises from only one party. Your wife does not respect you enough. She thinks she can persuade you like you are a child and I find this to be very insulting. I will even go as far as think that she faked it when she agreed with you to have a childless marriage having the plan to convince you later.

[Els]

Well, I agree with the others that the obvious solution is to divorce. However, I also understand how that would be an extremely difficult solution for both of you to carry out. AFAIK divorcees are heavily ostracized in India, especially the women. From what I understand, both of you might lose many family and friends, and it's unlikely that either of you will be able to marry within your culture again after a divorce, especially in her case.

 

Your plan is to be able to leave India and travel the world at 40 without obligations, is that correct? So here's my suggestion: Has your wife ever travelled outside India before? My guess is no. Do you have the funds to do so? If so, do... just a nice vacation between the two of you. Go to a few countries that you both think you'll like, do some fun stuff, see the world a bit.

 

There is a small possibility that she doesn't truly realize what's out there for her and that once she sees it she may decide the same as you, that she wants all of this. It's a small chance, but it's not 0. There is also a possibility that none of it will impress her - in which case yeah, tough decision ahead for both of you.

[elaine567]

Yep. She hates the whole plan. But she is willing to compromise. Once the kid is independent then we can go and live wherever we want. So instead of doing it at 40 we do it at 50.

 

You chose the wrong woman, she is a family orientated girl who would be happier organizing her daughter's wedding with family and friends all around, than sitting in a luxury hotel suite in Dubai. At 50 she will not want to be far from her parents or your parents as they will be ageing and your child will need her continuing support as it goes out in the world. she will by then have a network of friends and family so wandering the world with you alone will not be high priority for her.

She doesn't want it now as a young woman relatively free from responsibilities, she will not want it then.

[elaine567]

Or she will change her mind AGAIN and come up with a totally different plan that you will need to follow again. Marriage is about common path and compromises from both parties, not compromises from only one party. Your wife does not respect you enough. She thinks she can persuade you like you are a child and I find this to be very insulting. I will even go as far as think that she faked it when she agreed with you to have a childless marriage having the plan to convince you later.

 

That is a bit harsh, she is a young woman, she probably didn't realize that her desire for children would be so strong when she agreed to the marriage.

People change, they want different things out of life as they age. What sounds great at 21 may seem like madness at 24.

Experience changes us all.

The OP at 40 and fed up of making money, may decide he wants kids after all.

None of us knows the future.