Wife wants kids...

[Els]

That said, if Hodor's wife was really such an obedient daughter who observed customs, she would not have agreed to a childfree marriage in the first place. The arranged marriage could have been called off on those grounds and nobody would have faulted her for that.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but as for this part, I don't think it is as simple as that. I think it's possible that she genuinely just didn't know what she wanted at 21. Also possible that her parents told her they didn't think he was serious, that he'd change his mind, etc.

[RecentChange]

OP, I am going again just say that you have my support and I really identify with you.

 

I do not want children. I have never wanted children, and I know I will never want children. It's something I have known since I was young, and as an adult I know motherhood is a life style I do not wish.

 

My husband knew this from the first month he met me (because I made it clear) and has always been on the same page.

 

I would be heart broken if he "changed his mind". Because to me, a child should never be a compromise.

 

Life goals should not be a compromise. In my mind, a couple needs to have a common vision, otherwise it will never work. Sure, perhaps they will stay together but at what cost?

 

It's like having a business with two partners, if those partners do not have the same vision for the business, where will it go? Most likely not a place of success.

 

My husband and I have a vision similar to yours (only it involves a house boat in the Netherlands at 50). I LOVE my child free life, where I can emerse my career, enjoy my equestrian pursuits, socialize and travel - without the burden or responsibility of children.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

But I understand some people want children, and tge desire is incredibly strong. I think it's cruel to deny that desire - but equally wrong to impose it upon those who do not have it.

 

I am sticking with my original advice, set her free

[SummerDreams]

I will notice again that, while we spend time discussing the OP's rights and his wife's rights, we don't bother to discuss about the unborn kid's rights and these are that it deserves to come to the world by two parents who truly and wholeheartedly want it and it will become their priority for the years to come. Clearly the OP is not willing to do that and he has made it crystal clear from the start.

[Els]

I will notice again that, while we spend time discussing the OP's rights and his wife's rights, we don't bother to discuss about the unborn kid's rights and these are that it deserves to come to the world by two parents who truly and wholeheartedly want it and it will become their priority for the years to come. Clearly the OP is not willing to do that and he has made it crystal clear from the start.

 

Has anyone actually said that the OP should have a child that he doesn't want?

[SummerDreams]

Has anyone actually said that the OP should have a child that he doesn't want?

 

Well when people say that people change their minds during their 20s and he may very well change his mind too and wake up and suddenly want a kid, this is what I understand...

[elaine567]

The reality IS that people do change their minds, people who wanted kids when faced with the possibility of actually having them renege, and people who didn't want kids end up wanting kids.

Some people end up regretting having kids, some people regret never having kids.

Life is just like that.

No-one can predict the future.

[Emilia]

Besides, what matters is the future. They have to make a decision.

[BettyDraper]

Well when people say that people change their minds during their 20s and he may very well change his mind too and wake up and suddenly want a kid, this is what I understand...

 

This. There has been so much sympathy for Hodor's wife and explanations about how her desires are natural as well as the belief that he will change his mind. All of those statements imply that he is wrong for not wanting kids.

[BettyDraper]

Update Hodor?

[Hodor]

Update Hodor?

 

Thanks for your concern.

 

One of my partner recommended a 3 and half day course called landmark forum. I dont know if anybody here has heard about it or not. Its supposed to be a big deal and has been around 40years+. I went for it and finished 3 days today. Big idiot I am to trust him.

 

Please excuse me but I will write a proper reply tomorrow. Too tired from all that nonsense. Wasted 45hours in last 3 days on it.

[BlueIris]

Thanks for your concern.

 

One of my partner recommended a 3 and half day course called landmark forum. I dont know if anybody here has heard about it or not. Its supposed to be a big deal and has been around 40years+. I went for it and finished 3 days today. Big idiot I am to trust him.

 

Please excuse me but I will write a proper reply tomorrow. Too tired from all that nonsense. Wasted 45hours in last 3 days on it.

 

Not much help. Landmark can be a mess.

[BettyDraper]

Thanks for your concern.

 

One of my partner recommended a 3 and half day course called landmark forum. I dont know if anybody here has heard about it or not. Its supposed to be a big deal and has been around 40years+. I went for it and finished 3 days today. Big idiot I am to trust him.

 

Please excuse me but I will write a proper reply tomorrow. Too tired from all that nonsense. Wasted 45hours in last 3 days on it.

 

Sorry that LF didn't help and you feel that you wasted your time.

[Anderlie]

OP I'm so sorry to hear about your difficulties. I think you're trying to handle this seismic shift in what seemed to be a very happy and compatible marriage initally very well really. Your wife was so young when you married I'm sure the version of your life together where you travelled around happy and free seemed great, especially since it meant she would be out on her own (I realise she's very well travelled but even then young people do chafe at being at home with the parents). Unfortunately now she's probably had her fill of that - or is thinking it's too far in the future and to be fulfilling in the here and now - and is looking at something more tangible. Hence: babies.

 

Avoiding her family isn't going to work long term, but I think you should keep your conversations brief and probably not in person until things are clearer. I admire you for seeking outside help and hope you find something better for you soon. There was recently an article written by a young Indian woman who wanted to be childfree as well, might be worth googling.

 

Ultimately I don't have much advice but I hope you can stay your path. I knew I didn't want children from about the age of 12 and I'm now 36. Having one now would destroy the life I've created with my husband and we both love our life. Ignore the naysayers who think you can't be happy the way you are. You may not be able to be happy with your wife but you can definitely be happy without children.

[Hodor]

Its extremely difficult. I have never felt so weak and helpless in my life. Also I underestimated how much I love my wife. If I close my eyes and think "Can I die for my wife tomorrow?" The answer I get is Yes. But if I close my eyes and think "Can I rot in prison for rest of my life from tomorrow for my wife?" The answer I get is No.

 

My business partner enrolled me into Landmark Forum (LF). His words were "if you respect me and trust me then go".

 

I saw losers, winners, successful, jobless, pennyless, millionaires, all kinds of people attending the course. My question was how can they design one-fit-for-all for everybody? I found out that LF is nothing but destructive emotional blackmailing. It can work for some vulnerable, extremely weak minds or someone with extremely screwed up relationships. But for others I have no idea how it could help them.

 

I spoke to one of the supervisors to discuss my case. He said the reason I dont want a child is because my childhood was pretty screwed up and I should call my dad and clear things up. I asked him clear what? Ask him why dad, why did you give me everything? Why did, why did you never say no to any of my demands? Why dad, why did you give me house, car, money to start my own company? Why dad, why were you so selfish that you worked your whole life for the family?

 

About 30% of the LF was marketing. They teach you how to recruit more course takers for them. I was extremely pissed at this but one thing I realised, its extremely easy to trick people. All you need is someone who has no integrity and can lie seeing you eye to eye with confidence.

 

On the 3rd day, I was talking on the phone during the break and a guy approached me and told me to sign up for Advanced Course. I told him this course hasn't helped me one bit and I am doing no such thing. He tried to give me suggestions and I asked him whats his qualifications that he thinks he can come to consult someone like this? "I am a truthful person" he says. I told him if he speaks to me again I am going to use his name and demand a refund from the head office of LF. He stepped back never to be seen again.

 

I felt LF is brainwashing. If you have no confidence in yourself and your life is at such a stage where you have lost complete respect in yourself then it will surely help you. Because you cant go below that point. As for me it was a waste of time.

 

Right, so I met her dad. We discussed everything. He asked me what do I really want? My answer was simple- The same life which we had before this Kid fiasco started. He said he knew how happy my wife was with me and would hate to see he parting ways. He tells me he gets shivers when this thought crosses his mind. He knows I am right if I cleared this thing up before marriage and would like her daughter to honour the promise but he cant force her. Neither he can force me. So he has taken a way out. He has some property which he was going to give to my wife and sister after his death but he will give it now. The half which my wife get should be sufficient to raise the kid and if I invest it wisely it will be even see him through the college. So this way my dream of retiring at 40 stays alive and possible.

 

I told him I feel insulted that he is only thinking in terms of money and how he doesn't care that I will never be a good father. I wont lie and say its not about money but definitely I wont get a kid because I am getting money from somewhere to have it. I know he is trying to save his daughters marriage but this isnt the right way.

 

I am not answering my mom's calls since the 4-5 days. I am talking with my dad but just to check on my mom. Havent spoken to my wife but I dropped her a message saying lets meet on Saturday and lets take the time in between to think. Havent got a reply yet.

 

I wish I could tell you something is going on but the truth is nothing is happening. Only talks but no movement.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Hodor

[Anderlie]

My childhood was fine, I'm sure yours was also. Some people just don't have a want or need for children and that's ok. Have you spoken to your wife at all yet?

[BettyDraper]

Its extremely difficult. I have never felt so weak and helpless in my life. Also I underestimated how much I love my wife. If I close my eyes and think "Can I die for my wife tomorrow?" The answer I get is Yes. But if I close my eyes and think "Can I rot in prison for rest of my life from tomorrow for my wife?" The answer I get is No.

 

My business partner enrolled me into Landmark Forum (LF). His words were "if you respect me and trust me then go".

 

I saw losers, winners, successful, jobless, pennyless, millionaires, all kinds of people attending the course. My question was how can they design one-fit-for-all for everybody? I found out that LF is nothing but destructive emotional blackmailing. It can work for some vulnerable, extremely weak minds or someone with extremely screwed up relationships. But for others I have no idea how it could help them.

 

I spoke to one of the supervisors to discuss my case. He said the reason I dont want a child is because my childhood was pretty screwed up and I should call my dad and clear things up. I asked him clear what? Ask him why dad, why did you give me everything? Why did, why did you never say no to any of my demands? Why dad, why did you give me house, car, money to start my own company? Why dad, why were you so selfish that you worked your whole life for the family?

 

About 30% of the LF was marketing. They teach you how to recruit more course takers for them. I was extremely pissed at this but one thing I realised, its extremely easy to trick people. All you need is someone who has no integrity and can lie seeing you eye to eye with confidence.

 

On the 3rd day, I was talking on the phone during the break and a guy approached me and told me to sign up for Advanced Course. I told him this course hasn't helped me one bit and I am doing no such thing. He tried to give me suggestions and I asked him whats his qualifications that he thinks he can come to consult someone like this? "I am a truthful person" he says. I told him if he speaks to me again I am going to use his name and demand a refund from the head office of LF. He stepped back never to be seen again.

 

I felt LF is brainwashing. If you have no confidence in yourself and your life is at such a stage where you have lost complete respect in yourself then it will surely help you. Because you cant go below that point. As for me it was a waste of time.

 

Right, so I met her dad. We discussed everything. He asked me what do I really want? My answer was simple- The same life which we had before this Kid fiasco started. He said he knew how happy my wife was with me and would hate to see he parting ways. He tells me he gets shivers when this thought crosses his mind. He knows I am right if I cleared this thing up before marriage and would like her daughter to honour the promise but he cant force her. Neither he can force me. So he has taken a way out. He has some property which he was going to give to my wife and sister after his death but he will give it now. The half which my wife get should be sufficient to raise the kid and if I invest it wisely it will be even see him through the college. So this way my dream of retiring at 40 stays alive and possible.

 

I told him I feel insulted that he is only thinking in terms of money and how he doesn't care that I will never be a good father. I wont lie and say its not about money but definitely I wont get a kid because I am getting money from somewhere to have it. I know he is trying to save his daughters marriage but this isnt the right way.

 

I am not answering my mom's calls since the 4-5 days. I am talking with my dad but just to check on my mom. Havent spoken to my wife but I dropped her a message saying lets meet on Saturday and lets take the time in between to think. Havent got a reply yet.

 

I wish I could tell you something is going on but the truth is nothing is happening. Only talks but no movement.

 

Sounds like your supervisor is trying to insult you by indirectly calling you spoiled and ungrateful. People decide to be childfree for many reasons and having a screwed up childhood is only one of them. You have not indicated that your childhood was dysfunctional but even if you did, nobody should be judging your reasons for deciding not to have children.

 

I'm happy that you're too strong and intelligent to fall for brainwashing.

 

Your FIL is focusing purely on the financial aspect of having children and I suppose he thinks that is the only reason for your choice. I understand why you're insulted but I don't believe that's your FIL's intent. He is clearly thinking of a way to solve this issue by providing a way for you to achieve your dreams with children.

 

There's no reason why your wife should stop talking to you over this problem. She's being very immature and she obviously believes that giving you the silent treatment is going to change your mind. Marital issues are not solved by refusing to speak to each other.

[Emilia]

I told him I feel insulted that he is only thinking in terms of money and how he doesn't care that I will never be a good father. I wont lie and say its not about money but definitely I wont get a kid because I am getting money from somewhere to have it. I know he is trying to save his daughters marriage but this isnt the right way.

 

I am not answering my mom's calls since the 4-5 days. I am talking with my dad but just to check on my mom. Havent spoken to my wife but I dropped her a message saying lets meet on Saturday and lets take the time in between to think. Havent got a reply yet.

 

I wish I could tell you something is going on but the truth is nothing is happening. Only talks but no movement.

I am very sorry OP you are going through this, it must be a very lonely experience.

 

The only thing I can say to you is that you should trust yourself, your instincts. Sometimes we have to make very hard decisions because something isn't working - I am speaking from experience, I am no longer on speaking terms with my family so I know what it's like to make very tough decisions and having to trust yourself.

 

However, we are who we are and we know what works for us and what works for other people too even if they don't see it themselves just yet.

[whatcanitellyou]

I find it ironic that OP is upset about what he perceives to be attempted manipulation aimed at getting him to agree to a child, but he's looking for ways to manipulate his wife into agreeing to remain child free.

 

Even by guilting her with the "honoring her promise" argument.

 

It was unreasonable to think his wife could make such a promise at the age she was at marriage, and these things change.

 

He could've easily changed his mind.....it happens.

 

So while OP should definitely not agree to kids if he doesn't want them, it's also a little hypocritical to complain about manipulation and then try to manipulate his wife.

 

I get that life will be difficult for her with a divorce, but I assume she knows this and is still not talking to him, so clearly she's made her position known.

 

He's still looking for a way to force his wants on her

[Emilia]

I find it ironic that OP is upset about what he perceives to be attempted manipulation aimed at getting him to agree to a child, but he's looking for ways to manipulate his wife into agreeing to remain child free.

 

Even by guilting her with the "honoring her promise" argument.

 

It was unreasonable to think his wife could make such a promise at the age she was at marriage, and these things change.

 

He could've easily changed his mind.....it happens.

 

So while OP should definitely not agree to kids if he doesn't want them, it's also a little hypocritical to complain about manipulation and then try to manipulate his wife.

 

I get that life will be difficult for her with a divorce, but I assume she knows this and is still not talking to him, so clearly she's made her position known.

 

He's still looking for a way to force his wants on her

I'm not really sure you can use the words 'manipulation' or 'force' when the OP's stance has been clear from the start.

 

That's not to say I don't feel sorry for his wife, the way I feel sorry for women who are powerless in patriarchal societies in general but the OP has been honest from the start.

 

I think it's his society's problem that they have very rigid rules and expect everyone to conform.

[BettyDraper]

I find it ironic that OP is upset about what he perceives to be attempted manipulation aimed at getting him to agree to a child, but he's looking for ways to manipulate his wife into agreeing to remain child free.

 

Even by guilting her with the "honoring her promise" argument.

 

It was unreasonable to think his wife could make such a promise at the age she was at marriage, and these things change.

 

He could've easily changed his mind.....it happens.

 

So while OP should definitely not agree to kids if he doesn't want them, it's also a little hypocritical to complain about manipulation and then try to manipulate his wife.

 

I get that life will be difficult for her with a divorce, but I assume she knows this and is still not talking to him, so clearly she's made her position known.

 

He's still looking for a way to force his wants on her

 

There's no force or manipulation involved since the OP was clear about what he wanted before marriage.

[Hodor]

I find it ironic that OP is upset about what he perceives to be attempted manipulation aimed at getting him to agree to a child, but he's looking for ways to manipulate his wife into agreeing to remain child free.

 

Even by guilting her with the "honoring her promise" argument.

 

It was unreasonable to think his wife could make such a promise at the age she was at marriage, and these things change.

 

He could've easily changed his mind.....it happens.

 

So while OP should definitely not agree to kids if he doesn't want them, it's also a little hypocritical to complain about manipulation and then try to manipulate his wife.

 

I get that life will be difficult for her with a divorce, but I assume she knows this and is still not talking to him, so clearly she's made her position known.

 

He's still looking for a way to force his wants on her

 

I dont know why you think that way. In my whole life I never understood the value of having a child. I never thought it can become such a big deal. Call it my ignorance, immaturity, idiocy or whatever you want. Even after that we spoke a bid deal about it and I had made my position clear. If she comes and demand a kid I will obviously tell her about our conversation and the promises she made. Do you really expect me to ignore that part? There has been no manipulation. She was more than free to walk away if she didn't like the idea.

[DreamP]

OP, I wanted to give you my story in hopes it may help.

 

I also did not want biological kids. I thought it was extremely selfish to bring more children into the world and use up precious resources when there were so many unloved/unwanted children in the world. My husband wanted biological children. He finally (on his own accord) decided he was happy with me and didn't see a need to have kids. I was so in love with him that I felt I would make this sacrifice and give him one child. We ended up with 2 kids.

 

Now my marriage is in a bad place. If it wasn't for the kids, I would have left a long time ago. I never regretted having them. They are the only things that give me joy, but they basically shattered all my other dream and ambitions. I am very proud of them and am raising them to be the person I didn't get to be; somebody who will give back to society. I also plan to live the life I truly want once they are in college. Yes, it will be late, but I will also be wiser and will be able to accomplish a lot more.

 

Do I regret having kids, no. They bring me lots of joy. If I had to do it again, would I have kids, no. If my marriage wasn't so bad, would I say that, probably not. I made a huge sacrifice for my husband by having children. He never made any sacrifices for me.

 

This is just something to think about. If you decide to have kid(s), will your wife make sacrifices so that you can have the things you want in life, or will your needs always be secondary to her's? What if after agreeing on having one kid, she decides she wants more? What if 20 years later she doesn't want to move abroad? What if she decides she wants to be close the her child and stay put? A mother's bond with their child is very strong. Do you think you can trust her to keep her word or would she just be agreeing to this to get her way now?

[Hodor]

Sounds like your supervisor is trying to insult you by indirectly calling you spoiled and ungrateful. People decide to be childfree for many reasons and having a screwed up childhood is only one of them. You have not indicated that your childhood was dysfunctional but even if you did, nobody should be judging your reasons for deciding not to have children.

 

I'm happy that you're too strong and intelligent to fall for brainwashing.

 

Your FIL is focusing purely on the financial aspect of having children and I suppose he thinks that is the only reason for your choice. I understand why you're insulted but I don't believe that's your FIL's intent. He is clearly thinking of a way to solve this issue by providing a way for you to achieve your dreams with children.

 

There's no reason why your wife should stop talking to you over this problem. She's being very immature and she obviously believes that giving you the silent treatment is going to change your mind. Marital issues are not solved by refusing to speak to each other.

 

Yes I know my FIL's intentions were to try and resolve this but I had be little stubborn to make my intentions pretty clear. I don't want her family to have any hope from me in this matter. I am not moving and thats pretty clear. I never ever want to look at some innocent child and blame him for my life.

The way my wife is acting is actually very strange. Don't know whats going through her head.

 

She initially went to her house (my FIL's) but I got a call from my dad that she has moved with them today. Maybe my mother has asked her to or she wants to indicate that I come and talk to her. I cant understand the meaning of this move.

 

I am very sorry OP you are going through this, it must be a very lonely experience.

 

The only thing I can say to you is that you should trust yourself, your instincts. Sometimes we have to make very hard decisions because something isn't working - I am speaking from experience, I am no longer on speaking terms with my family so I know what it's like to make very tough decisions and having to trust yourself.

 

However, we are who we are and we know what works for us and what works for other people too even if they don't see it themselves just yet.

 

Yes its tough. Never experienced anything like this. Trusting myself is whats keeping me stubborn, but the thought that she will never comeback is killing me. First time I am actually understanding the meaning of 'you cant get everything'.

[Hodor]

OP, I wanted to give you my story in hopes it may help.

 

I also did not want biological kids. I thought it was extremely selfish to bring more children into the world and use up precious resources when there were so many unloved/unwanted children in the world. My husband wanted biological children. He finally (on his own accord) decided he was happy with me and didn't see a need to have kids. I was so in love with him that I felt I would make this sacrifice and give him one child. We ended up with 2 kids.

 

Now my marriage is in a bad place. If it wasn't for the kids, I would have left a long time ago. I never regretted having them. They are the only things that give me joy, but they basically shattered all my other dream and ambitions. I am very proud of them and am raising them to be the person I didn't get to be; somebody who will give back to society. I also plan to live the life I truly want once they are in college. Yes, it will be late, but I will also be wiser and will be able to accomplish a lot more.

 

Do I regret having kids, no. They bring me lots of joy. If I had to do it again, would I have kids, no. If my marriage wasn't so bad, would I say that, probably not. I made a huge sacrifice for my husband by having children. He never made any sacrifices for me.

 

This is just something to think about. If you decide to have kid(s), will your wife make sacrifices so that you can have the things you want in life, or will your needs always be secondary to her's? What if after agreeing on having one kid, she decides she wants more? What if 20 years later she doesn't want to move abroad? What if she decides she wants to be close the her child and stay put? A mother's bond with their child is very strong. Do you think you can trust her to keep her word or would she just be agreeing to this to get her way now?

 

Your story definitely has some similarities to my case. I am happy that your kids give you joy. However it makes me sad when you say that you are the only one who has made sacrifices.

 

The way my wife has been behaving, I feel like I dont know her at all and she is totally a new person and not someone who I have been living with since 3 years. Yes she might demand another, she might even leave me after the kid. There is no guarantee that our relationship will be perfect if I agree to have a kid. I think I said in some other post that I cant trust any of her promises from this point.

 

One of my friend even suggested that even if she wants to come back and agree to no kid then dont let her. Because life will not be same anymore. We will be constantly arguing over small things and make life a living hell. But I told him I need to give her a chance.

 

I guess I will go and speak to my mother tomorrow. Mostly my wife wont be there during the day but if she is I am sure she wont come out to see me. I dont want to spoil any relationships with my mother. Need to clear few things out with her.

[Leigh 87]

Divorce her.

 

My own father didnt want kids. Married at 21. Mum decided she wanted a baby at age 32. Dad obliged; he knew he had it in him to love their child. But if he hadnt married, and remained single, he definately DID NOT have the natural drive to have kids independently of being deeply in love with a partner. My fathers deep love of my mother made him have a healthy degree of emotionn and love surrounding their baby.

 

My bf and I dont think we want kids. But we have both agrees that, if one of us wants them indefinately, we WILL have them rather than leavs each other. We both have the capacity to deeply love a child the way a child is supposed to be loved, yet we HATE the idea of sacrificing our entire lives for the rest of our lives and we know thag we will always have to go without thing, such as travel and altruism, favouring spending ALL our disposabme income on kids.

 

So... based on my experience, even if you hate the idea of giving WELL OVER half your incomes away due to kids, you can still rise to the occasion PROVIDING you have it in you to love the kids and relish in taking care of then once they come along.

 

Because while you may prefer a certain lifestyle, sometimes the love you have for your wife can make men who otherwise didn t want kids, to end up loving their child.

 

Lacking paternal instincts is one thing. A dealbreaker. Kids deserve better.

 

It sounds like there is NO WAY you would have kids.

 

You are young enough to find love again. Please let her have the best chance at finding love again, with the stigma of divorce itll be hard enough in your country. So the younger she is, the bettee the odds for her.....

 

If you truly love her set her free please. Keeping her is for your own selfish desires

 

Not being a mother is a HUGE deal for maternal women.