To the men on this forum....

[amerikajin]

...need to know if I'm reading this situation right.

 

So I'm at the bar sittin' by myself initially. Then I call up this dude, who happens to be a bit of a player, and ask him to drop by. Now, to be honest, this isn't really a guy that I'd ever say was one of my all time best buds or anything, he's just one of my neighbors, so I called him up to see if he was in the area, and it turns out he was.

 

So anyway...he arrives and we start talking about chicks. And we're scoping out this hot bartender, and we're talking amongst ourselves, and we agree that this chick is hot. I told him I was sort of interested in her, though to be honest, it really wouldn't have (and doesn't) matter one way or the other. I was just saying that she was attractive, and he agreed with me that she was.

 

He starts chattin' her up - which I've got no problem with at all. The problem is, he starts talking about me. And before I go further, it's worth pointing out that we're in Japan, and he's talking to this j-bird in Japanese, and from the looks of it, I thought he was trying to show off a bit, but I just sorta sat back and listened to him chat. But as I said, he starts talking about me, and then he proceeds to say, "Oh, do you have a boyfriend? Well, if not, he's interested in you."

 

Now, to the casual observer this seems innocent. But to you guys out there who know the score, I have a question: is it me, or did he put her on the spot just to shoot me down???

 

Long story short, that's how I took it. I think he put her on the spot, knowing that by doing so she would obviously deny any interest she might have had in me. I mean, anyone who knows anything about women knows that no girl is going to tell someone else that she's interested in a guy before she actually gets a chance to talk to him - especially when said guy is sitting right there (like I needed him to f*cking say anything on my behalf). I got pissed off and went home for the night. He obviously got it, as he tried to call me after I left, though I did not answer.

 

Am I completely off based??

[alphamale]

your so called "buddy" made you look like a fool AMERIKAJIN. he did this on purpose to make the bartender think to herself "boy, this guy does not even have enuf confidence in himself to tell me he is interested, his friend had to tell me..."

 

this dude is not your buddy....he is using you as his "wing man". he probably got her phone # after you left.

[InmannRoshi]

I would definitely agree that the guy was trying to make you look timid and inferior.

[amerikajin]

And if there's anyone's opinion in this kind of situation I trust, it's yours. Thanks for reaffirming that fact.

 

edit: was initially referring to Alpha, but I respect your input too inman

[amerikajin]

And before anyone says "Oh, you're just cryin' sour grapes," understand that I'm not.

 

To be honest, I had never even really made a move on this chick, and I had been there a good hour before he got there. If I had picked up any signs of interest on her part and had we started a conversation or something, then it would be a case of me cryin' like a little wuss boy - but that's not what upset me. Had he left me out of it and just gone for it on his own, without mentioning my name, that would have been just fine with me - honestly.

 

It was the fact that he tried to use me as a prop, to make me look like a f_cking sucker....that's what pissed me off.

 

And he knows it now, but tough s***. I'm at the point in my life where, when I see someone's true colors, I stay the hell away from them. He's gone - he ain't no friend, and he'd better god damn well stay the f*ck away from me.

[Opium]

Actually from a woman's view yes you could have seemed like a desperate, to shy to talk to himself kinda guy, but at the same time, you have to respect the fact that maybe you didn't approach her because "how many guy's must try to pick her up"?

 

She probably felt like, "wow he didn't approach me and he was interested, why, every other fool in hear did??" At least if I was her, that's what I would think. The guy doing all the talking sometimes has nothing important to say that will amuse me or get my attention.

 

But don't get me wrong, she could have thought what you're saying and he could have come out winning, but why don't you ask him? See what came out of him being so pushy.

[Pocky]

I don't have a third leg - can I post anyway? Well - I'm gonna!

 

If I were in your position - I would feel as though the person was using me as the main focus so that they wouldn't have any of the pressure on them when trying to get the phone number. If my girlfriend did this to me, I'd ask her why she had to use me as a diversion - she should have asked him for his phone number herself.

 

If I were in the position of the bartender - I would see the entire thing as a - let's get our boy laid - kind of deal. I don't trust two men working together to hit on a woman. When men get together and the topic of women and sex comes up they can be rather - immature. That's a turn off for me.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Had he left me out of it and just gone for it on his own, without mentioning my name, that would have been just fine with me - honestly.

exactly AMERIKAJIN, there was no reason for him to say that except for to make you look bad and for himself to look good.

 

if you ever get in this same situation with this guy you should pull the same krap on him.

[amerikajin]

Actually from a woman's view yes you could have seemed like a desperate, to shy to talk to himself kinda guy, but at the same time, you have to respect the fact that maybe you didn't approach her because "how many guy's must try to pick her up"?

 

And that's totally not how I play the dynamic. Nevertheless, I would have to agree that in this particular situation, that's how I was unwittingly set up. You see, I was actually willing to bide my time and just let things play out. I was going to let him see how far he could dance with her, and I must say, he seemed to be making some inroads, so I was like "Okay, go for it, man." - I more or less even told him so.

 

But what became immediately obvious was that he wanted to shoot me down so that he could "get me out of the way" so to speak. And that's where we got cross, and knowing him, I'd say that this is how he typically operates. Like I say, he never was someone I had as a close friend, he was just one of my apartment neighbors. I was bored, so I was like "Ah, I'll call Adam and see if he can stop by and join me for a drink." I thought he was at least friendly enough to do that.

 

But to have him join me and then try to set me up like that? Well, that was frankly f*cked up. When I was 21 I let people walk all over me - I don't play that crap anymore.

 

But don't get me wrong, she could have thought what you're saying and he could have come out winning, but why don't you ask him? See what came out of him being so pushy.

 

Nope. I don't need to know anything. The buds on this forum just confirmed what I already suspected, that this guy's a weasel.

[tanbark813]

Well I may be going out on a limb here, but I have to disagree with ALPHA. I think he was trying to be your wingman. He was setting you up to look like Mr. Cool and tossed you the ball hoping you'd run with it. I'm not saying it was the smoothest move on his part, but I think in his mind that's what he was doing. It also makes him look good by complimenting his friend (I know you're not close friends but the bartender doesn't know that).

 

I mean, you called him up, then pointed out a hot bartender. Maybe he thought what you wanted was help in picking her up. If you're saying this guy is a player, it wouldn't be improbable for that to be his train of thought.

[amerikajin]

It also makes him look good by complimenting his friend

 

Except that he didn't compliment me.

 

And trust me, he wasn't trying to help me out.

 

He spent a good five minutes talking to her, just she and him, running his game. Having played the game before myself, both successfully and unsuccessfully, a few times now, I know when a guy is trying to pump me up, and when a guy is full of s***. As I said, I didn't have a problem with it, but he didn't compliment me, tanbark. He just more or less did a cold call on my behalf. "Oh, well, if you don't have a boyfriend, this guy over here's interested in you."

 

Her: Well, um, I'm not really over my last boyfriend.

 

It's like, okay, good, now that we've got that out of the way, watch him go for his.

 

Hope he enjoyed it.

 

Cocksucker.

[tanbark813]

Ok, I must have misunderstood then. I thought you meant he was talking you up to her. nm..

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

Nope. I don't need to know anything. The buds on this forum just confirmed what I already suspected, that this guy's a weasel.

I have had this happen to me a few times and I've done it to some dudes. You find a "wing man" who cannot compete with yourself and you basically "use" him to pick up chicks.

 

WOmen like guys with friends so players know it is much harder to meet women by yourself couse you look like a loser. So you find some weaker dude who is not that good with women and make him out to be the desperate loser. In turn making yourself look like the "dominant male" who is so nice that he hangs out with this guy who cannot get a woman to save his life.

 

And usually the "wing man" goes along cause he figures that the can pick up the scraps and may meet some women but he never does cause his "buddy" ends up f***king them all.

[moimeme]

AMERIKAJIN, there was no reason for him to say that except for to make you look bad and for himself to look good.

 

But it didn't make him look good. If I were the bartender, I'd think he was acting like a grade-school kid and I would lose respect for him. 'My friend likes you' is the tactic people who are 10 use. And I scarcely think he'd think it would make him look good unless he's a fool because it sure didn't. I think you're too mad at him and that you should chalk it up to him being socially clumsy. If anything, he deserves your pity.

 

Is it possible that, because he's a 'player' and you're not, you felt out of your league with him there and took this as him trying to work his art when it was no such thing? Because, honestly, AJ, I can't imagine any women thinking a guy cool or interesting who would do the 'my buddy likes you' thing.

[amerikajin]

I know, you're wondering "Well, if he wasn't all that interested, what's the big deal then?"

 

The big deal is that I hate losing face. I hate being played like some f*cking fool. I'm no different than any other guy. I admit, I probably have a bit of a complex, because a lot of other guys might have just shrugged it off and gone right after the next thing that came along. But I'm not like that: I hate being disrespected. Maybe it's one of those childhood demons or something, I don't know...

 

I think the other part of it is much deeper than just this one incident, and it's something that is understood only by those who've been flakey enough like me to live the existence of an expat. For whatever reason, it just seems like true friends in this place are hard to come by. Back home, it was so easy for me to judge who was real and who wasn't. Here, even after three years, I have no idea who my real friends are. I've been shafted, stood up and ignored and backstabbed, and on more than one occasion here - and I'm not talking about the Japanese, either. I mean my fellow expats have done this s***, and I've watched them do it to other people, too.

[moimeme]

I hate losing face.

 

IMHO you didn't. He did. If it ever happens again, use it. Use the eye roll and say to the lass 'I told him I thought you were very attractive - now listen to the goof'. You turn it back on him (isn't that the marital arts principle?).

[alphamale]

Originally posted by amerikajin

The big deal is that I hate losing face.

Maybe you've been living in Japan too long

 

For whatever reason, it just seems like true friends in this place are hard to come by. Back home, it was so easy for me to judge who was real and who wasn't. Here, even after three years, I have no idea who my real friends are. I've been shafted, stood up and ignored and backstabbed, and on more than one occasion here - and I'm not talking about the Japanese, either. I mean my fellow expats have done this s***, and I've watched them do it to other people, too.

Well AMERIKAJIN. We must examine the personality traits of the expat. They are probably risk takers who like to live life on the edge. I mean, come on, most americans don't live in other nations by choice.

 

These people consider themselves rebels and, how shall I say it, "adventurers" so they will have a certain WTF personality type. Know what I mean?

[amerikajin]

But it didn't make him look good

 

First off, moimeme, thanks for your input, and I appreciate the mental massage.

 

But to your point, if this were a North American or European woman, I'd agree with you. But she's Japanese - their culture is radically different, and their concept of what constitutes "mature" and "immature" is also quite different. Most Japanese women have no idea that so many of the guys they end up with couldn't get laid in a brothel back home. Not that I was some stud myself, but I mean that seriously - a lot of guys who are repulsive to Western women back home somehow end up like John f'ing Travolta here. Me? I'm satisfied with my sex life, and I'll leave it at that, lest we get off topic.

 

Point is, I think this guy could have very well ended up smelling like a rose if he played his cards right. He could do the "Aw, I hurt my friend's feelings. I'm so upset, I didn't mean to do that." And then he comes across as what is referred to as "yasashi" (a nice, sensitive gentlemen in Japanese terms).

 

Anyway, I've stewed enough. Done for the night. Thanks - especially to Alpha and the guys for helping me see this stuff straight from a man's POV, though I appreciate everyone's input.

[amerikajin]

Use the eye roll and say to the lass 'I told him I thought you were very attractive - now listen to the goof'. You turn it back on him (isn't that the marital arts principle?).

 

Irony of all ironies. I ask for a man's input, and the best piece of advice on this board comes from, gasp, a woman!

 

LOL!

 

Actually, yes, moimeme, I quite like that way of thinking. Thanks.

[Opium]

But what became immediately obvious was that he wanted to shoot me down so that he could "get me out of the way" so to speak. And that's where we got cross, and knowing him, I'd say that this is how he typically operates. Like I say, he never was someone I had as a close friend, he was just one of my apartment neighbors. I was bored, so I was like "Ah, I'll call Adam and see if he can stop by and join me for a drink." I thought he was at least friendly enough to do that.

 

Well, in this case I believe you should distant yourself from friends like him. If his intentions were good, to hook you up with this girl, he would have introduced you guys once he talked to her for about a few minutes. He would of sparked up conversation between the three of you so you're not put on the spot alone with her, since you're talking to her for the first time.

 

I could see now how this would upset you. I wouldn't want to look bad either, in front of people I know or don't know, respect is a big thing and some just don't have any. If you weren't that close even better you can get rid of him quicker.

[Marshbear]

I have to admit that I have done this to guys I know simply because they would never make a move on their own and it was kinda fun for me. Usually the outcome was the same as the experience you had but there were a couple of occasions that I actually fixed up a buddy with the gal of his dreams. So I don't know if I should pat myself on the back for doing a couple of match makings or if the main goal was to cause them to squirm and me to get a kick out of it.

 

 

Peace...

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Marshbear

I have to admit that I have done this to guys I know simply because they would never make a move on their own and it was kinda fun for me.

what it comes down to, MARSHBER, is that a dude has to find his own chicks. you can't coat-tail on your player buddy or whatever. men need to do the legwork and take risks themselves when it comes to the dating and mating game.

[amerikajin]

Agreed, Alpha.

 

Thing is, I didn't ask for his help - I don't need it. Everybody has their own style when they pursue someone. Some are aggressive, some are laid back, and I tend to be the latter. I don't really like talkin' a lot of s***, I just sit back, see if I catch any signs of interest, and if so, I just talk to her as if I was talkin' to anyone else.

[Marshbear]

Originally posted by alphamale

what it comes down to, MARSHBER, is that a dude has to find his own chicks. you can't coat-tail on your player buddy or whatever. men need to do the legwork and take risks themselves when it comes to the dating and mating game.

I know Alpha. I guess I just get impatient waiting on them and I push up the volume a bit. I have not done this recently and I probably need to stop trying to intercede for them. It is hard sometimes because some them are shy and I just want to cut to the chase. Shyness if such a b*tch. It keeps them from doing what they would like to do so I like to think I am helping them but I should let them do it their way.

 

Peace...

[amerikajin]

Shyness if such a b*tch. It keeps them from doing what they would like to do so I like to think I am helping them but I should let them do it their way.

 

I really don't do the bar pick-up thing that often anymore because bars aren't my battlefield of choice. The bar environment is a jungle, and without a doubt, as I saw last night and as I've seen on many other occasions, the "alpha male" - the more aggressive male - usually comes away with the prey. I've gotten to the point that whenever I go to a bar for the express purpose of "anthropological reasearch" of Osaka's female population, I usually go on a night when it's rather quiet, like during the week, on the off chance that I'll find some chick out at a time when there isn't a lot of competition. Friday and Saturday night, however, are the wrong time for people like me to be going to a bar.

 

I'm not the most aggressive guy out there, but just to clarify matters, I'm not ultra shy, either. I've gotten phone numbers everywhere from the office to the city subway train, so it's not like I have a fear of women; but the more crowded the environment, the more likely I am to turn into a spectator. I accept that, and know that going into a situation like last night. I was not upset because "he stole my woman". As I said, I can't even say that she ever gave me any real signs of interest, so even had he not been there, I'd have to say that my chances of getting off the ground with her weren't that great to begin with.

 

It was more of a realization that this guy was someone I couldn't trust. I felt like he was trying to burn me, and maybe I actually posted this in the wrong place upon reflection; maybe this should be in the "friendship" section or something. Not that this guy was one of my buds, but I felt like I knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't try and torch me like that. But even now, today, my feelings haven't changed on the matter.

 

FWIW, the times when I am out on the prowl with a bud, I operate on the premise that if my wing-man approaches a woman, I let him finish, I let him take it as far as he can take it, and I stay out of his way. I don't get involved, and I expect the same consideration in return. Even when I was in college and clueless about women, I knew enough to stay out of my buddy's way if he was going after a chick - it's just common courtesy. I mean, I could see where there might be confusion in say high school or college, because the hormones are raging and you're still trying to learn the "guy rules" so to speak. But this dude's nearly 40! He knows better.