I feel absolutely no guilt. Is this normal?

[LuLu Bee]

So, was this a One Night Stand? As you told your husband, I can see why you are not really upset, as he seems to have taken it well. I think, in the end, you will as your husband does not really process this. Right now, he may be in more, " I need to put up with this to keep her mode".

 

Yes, for some, infidelity is just not a big thing, and if you and yours are one of those, that it is your business. I think by the fact of you coming here, assuming you are real, you see something in yourself that you do not like. You are surprised that you do not feel more or any remorse. As Mrs JA stated above, finding out, by IC, or by just talking it out with your husband will help you. I think you are starting a journey, and this is your first step. You have started your husband along this path as well. Where this will lead to, remains to be seen. I hope it is a better place, but I think you will find that you will regret cheating later.

 

In any case, I wish you luck.....

 

Well,it happen once,and I'm trying very hard for it not to happen again with him.

I know infidelity is bad,but I've never seen it as the worse event that can happen in a relationship. I've always felt this way even prior to my A.

 

It's odd,because if I flirted with another man I'd feel guilt. If I went to dinner with girlfriends rather than going home and eating dinner with my SO,Id' feel guilt.

As I said,although I do not believe infidelity to be the worse thing to happen in a relationship, I at least assumed I would feel guilt,and when I did not,it alarmed me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well,it happen once,and I'm trying very hard for it not to happen again with him.

I know infidelity is bad,but I've never seen it as the worse event that can happen in a relationship. I've always felt this way even prior to my A.

 

It's odd,because if I flirted with another man I'd feel guilt. If I went to dinner with girlfriends rather than going home and eating dinner with my SO,Id' feel guilt.

As I said,although I do not believe infidelity to be the worse thing to happen in a relationship, I at least assumed I would feel guilt,and when I did not,it alarmed me.

 

By your own admission you did flirt with another man...

 

I believe you are now talking in circles incoherently ...

 

Perhaps as you spin.. You have forgotten what you previously said.

 

 

Have you scheduled therapy yet? I think it is really important.

[ladydesigner]

She has nothing to loose. The way she comes off is she has it all under control. It comes across to me as arrogance but without the really knowledge to back it up. I don't mean that as a attack but I think we see this in a quite a few cheaters that have came her and other sites. She knows what is best for her and what is best for her husband. If she really knew the damage she has just caused she would probably give anything to take it back including her job. I doubt seriously she will really work on this at all. I think her husband is going to suffer for as long as he is with her.

 

I have seen three of us recommend the How to help your spouse heal from a affair and she clearly has no interest in really helping him. Imagine if the roles were reverse would we see this same attitude out of her. Would she still feel that cheating is not that big of a deal. I seriously doubt it. I think it also is like other cheaters thinking. Its not a big deal when I do it but don't you ever do it to me.

 

I still think she needs to leave her husband and let him go heal on his own.

 

I believe you are right in the end. She will repeat this behavior because there is no consequences for her actions. Nothing to stop her at all. Hopefully he realizes the real personal he has been married to and faithful to soon so he can start to protect himself better.

 

C

 

This is what I have been reacting to and OP some of my posts have been my own projection because like you I'm not sure my WH cares about what he did and how it affected me. I won't ever be the same person I was before his A. I have changed in a lot of ways better and worse.

 

Cheating is a big deal to those who like monogamy.

[LuLu Bee]

She has nothing to loose. The way she comes off is she has it all under control. It comes across to me as arrogance but without the really knowledge to back it up. I don't mean that as a attack but I think we see this in a quite a few cheaters that have came her and other sites. She knows what is best for her and what is best for her husband. If she really knew the damage she has just caused she would probably give anything to take it back including her job. I doubt seriously she will really work on this at all. I think her husband is going to suffer for as long as he is with her.

 

I have seen three of us recommend the How to help your spouse heal from a affair and she clearly has no interest in really helping him. Imagine if the roles were reverse would we see this same attitude out of her. Would she still feel that cheating is not that big of a deal. I seriously doubt it. I think it also is like other cheaters thinking. Its not a big deal when I do it but don't you ever do it to me.

 

I still think she needs to leave her husband and let him go heal on his own.

 

I believe you are right in the end. She will repeat this behavior because there is no consequences for her actions. Nothing to stop her at all. Hopefully he realizes the real personal he has been married to and faithful to soon so he can start to protect himself better.

 

C

 

I am not arrogant,nor am I a sociopath,narcissist,split personality etcetera,etcetera.

How dare you assume so confidently and say I have no interest in helping my SO? Your assumptions are wrong.

Just because my SO stayed with me does not mean I had no consequences to my actions.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am not arrogant,nor am I a sociopath,narcissist,split personality etcetera,etcetera.

How dare you assume so confidently and say I have no interest in helping my SO? Your assumptions are wrong.

Just because my SO stayed with me does not mean I had no consequences to my actions.

 

Lulu bee

 

What is it exactly you are looking for here on Loveshack?

 

If you have all the answers.. What do you want from the membership?

[LuLu Bee]

By your own admission you did flirt with another man...

 

I believe you are now talking in circles incoherently ...

 

Perhaps as you spin.. You have forgotten what you previously said.

 

 

Have you scheduled therapy yet? I think it is really important.

 

When I said flirted with another man I meant OM. I felt guilt when I gave him compliments.

I am seeking therapy,independently.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Yes and you said you would feel guilty if you flirted with another man. You flirted with him... So do you feel guilt when flirting with him?

 

Why do you think that gave you guilt but screwing him did not?

 

Are you sure you don't feel guilt?

[LuLu Bee]

Lulu bee

 

What is it exactly you are looking for here on Loveshack?

 

If you have all the answers.. What do you want from the membership?

 

Mrs. John Adams

 

I do not believe to have all the answers.

there is nothing wrong with my post you replied to. I was simply informing the person who so confidently says I do not care to help my spouse,that they are wrong.

Also who so confidently says I will do so again,because I had no consequences to my actions, that I indeed had consequences to my choice.

[LuLu Bee]

Yes and you said you would feel guilty if you flirted with another man. You flirted with him... So do you feel guilt when flirting with him?

 

Why do you think that gave you guilt but screwing him did not?

 

Are you sure you don't feel guilt?

 

I do not feel guilty for screwing him,which was odd and alarming to me. I'm positive I feel no guilt about the sexual part.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs. John Adams

 

I do not believe to have all the answers.

there is nothing wrong with my post you replied to. I was simply informing the person who so confidently says I do not care to help my spouse,that they are wrong.

Also who so confidently says I will do so again,because I had no consequences to my actions, that I indeed had consequences to my choice.

 

Well he happens to be a friend of mine... And he has had a whole lot of shyt dumped on him by a couple of waywards... So I would say .. He must see something in your posts that indicates to him that you are headed for more trouble.

 

Instead of being defensive toward folks .. Listen and think about what they are sharing... Process the information.. Use what you need and ignore the rest.

 

But in many cases... A wayward who feels no guilt or has no consequences.. Does repeat infidelity.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I do not feel guilty for screwing him,which was odd and alarming to me. I'm positive I feel no guilt about the sexual part.

 

Well.. Maybe the guilt will come

 

I will say I don't understand how you can feel guilty for flirting but not guilty for screwing.

 

I don't have an answer but I would certainly disclose this to both your husband and your therapist

[aliveagain]

If my spouse cheated on me, I would stay with him. I also hope he would use protection. I'm assuming I would feel hurt, but I don't know until that day comes. I also do not have his penis chained to my hand 24/7 therefor I can't for sure say he has or hasn't. I don't think anyone can.

 

Just a question, did you use protection and if so who brought the condoms to your soiree, you a 20 year happily married woman with a husband and children or he, an engaged just about to be married man? Typically neither should be carrying protection unless there was some kind of expectation that sex was going to happen. Your husband didn't have to have his penis chained to your hand, your vow to him was supposed to protect his back when he wasn't there to do it himself. You gave him your word that you would, he believed you unconditionally.

 

What is your plan going forward, how are you going to deal with the imbalance that has now been created by your betrayal? As someone that has been through it I can tell you that it hurts deeply finding out that the person you trust the most has been conspiring with someone else against you. It is hard to get that emptiness out of the pit of your stomach. If he knows you feel no guilt for destroying his trust my guess is it hurts him even more because some of us put a lot of value on what earning our trust is worth.

[Clay]

I am not arrogant,nor am I a sociopath,narcissist,split personality etcetera,etcetera.

How dare you assume so confidently and say I have no interest in helping my SO? Your assumptions are wrong.

Just because my SO stayed with me does not mean I had no consequences to my actions.

 

You know I have been around doctors my whole life. I work in IT and my children are all special needs kids. I can tell you one thing I have learn is self diagnosis is often wrong. How can you say for sure without going to see a doctor you do not have one of these personality disorders. I am not assuming anything. I am just giving you my opinion based on your responses and your initial post. If you had consequences what are they? Why not share them with us so we can understand and better advice how to help you heal your marriage.

 

All I see is someone upset she is being questioned at all about anything. Its that same attitude. "How dare You". If you really knew the pain you have cause then you would learn to have humility. This is something so few cheaters ever learn or experience. The truth is your not all that great. You can't be trusted. You don't value your marriage or your vows. Your words mean nothing. That special feeling your husband once had while laying next to you in bed is now gone. He will never look at you the same. Your now a stranger.

 

You should read Josephs Letter. It really is a great insight to where your at now.

 

Joseph's Letter

This is a post by Joseph, a member of the now defunct BAN Message Board. He wrote to this letter to his wife to explain why he asked for details of her affair.

To Whomever,

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

 

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

 

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

 

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

 

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

 

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

 

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

 

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

 

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

 

C

[Mrs. John Adams]

Oh clay... That was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. It made me cry.

 

I see myself in that story.. I hear the very words I uttered to my betrayed.

[SammySammy]

As if we should just accept other people telling us we have a personality disorder.

 

I think not.

 

She doesn't have to accept that. Especially from people on the internet.

 

Human emotional responses occur on a continuum. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to feel about anything.

[Sub]

Lulu, have you told your H that you feel zero guilt or regret about what happened?

[aliveagain]

As if we should just accept other people telling us we have a personality disorder.

 

I think not.

 

She doesn't have to accept that. Especially from people on the internet.

 

Human emotional responses occur on a continuum. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to feel about anything.

 

 

MKD please don't take this the wrong way but your statement can be perceived in so many ways depending on which end of the infidelity you are on.

 

My point is LuLu Bee has no remorse about giving some guy from her office a thorough fu*king, one he may remember for the rest of his life, big deal it was just one night out of the rest of her life. Ya, Mr. LuLu Bee was pissed, yelled a lot but he's still there when she get's home at night. The point she is missing is what she so freely and easily gave away to this 20 year old Mr. LuLu Bee values enough that he would give his life defending her right to keep it. Guys are taught this from early on in life, they just don't expect you to give it away. Then they start to wonder what else is a lie?

[merrmeade]

Well,it happen once,and I'm trying very hard for it not to happen again with him.

 

I know infidelity is bad, but I've never seen it as the worse event that can happen in a relationship. I've always felt this way even prior to my A.

 

It's odd, because if I flirted with another man I'd feel guilt. If I went to dinner with girlfriends rather than going home and eating dinner with my SO, Id' feel guilt.

 

As I said,although I do not believe infidelity to be the worse thing to happen in a relationship, I at least assumed I would feel guilt,and when I did not, it alarmed me.

I'm trying to understand the disconnect here. I think what everyone doesn't understand, believe or consider is why don't you know what your own belief system is? Why would you try to go at it from the back end and use feeling guilt to figure out what's good and bad for you?

 

For whatever reason, it seems like you don't seem to have an external set of guidelines directing your personal ethics (and, therefore, your guilt) nor have you developed your own internal ones. Feels like I'm reading Camus' "The Stranger": Everybody's freaking out because the protagonist doesn't show the remorse of 'moral' people. I don't remember though if he asks them why he should, as you have. Maybe you're just an existentialist, Lulu!

 

Okay, so the question - if I'm correct in all this - is actually about why infidelity is a bad thing: You're sincerely asking (what everyone else thinks is an obvious thing). Well, my question to you is why would you feel guilt about flirting with another man and about not going home to have dinner with your SO?

[SammySammy]

[/b]

 

 

MKD please don't take this the wrong way but your statement can be perceived in so many ways depending on which end of the infidelity you are on.

 

My point is LuLu Bee has no remorse about giving some guy from her office a thorough fu*king, one he may remember for the rest of his life, big deal it was just one night out of the rest of her life. Ya, Mr. LuLu Bee was pissed, yelled a lot but he's still there when she get's home at night. The point she is missing is what she so freely and easily gave away to this 20 year old Mr. LuLu Bee values enough that he would give his life defending her right to keep it. Guys are taught this from early on in life, they just don't expect you to give it away. Then they start to wonder what else is a lie?

 

What she so freely and easily gave away belongs to her. Not her husband no matter what he may think or feel.

 

What she does with it at any stage of her life is her choice. If her husband or anyone else would risk his life trying to influence that choice, he should be willing to die. Because, ultimately, what she does with it is not up to him. He's been taught the wrong thing.

 

Y'all are trying to make this woman feel bad when she doesn't have to. Her body has always been hers. She can regret breaking her commitment to her husband ... if she wants to ... but she doesn't have to feel bad about the sex.

 

Trying to insist that she must feel bad is an attempt to reinforce the patriarchal view of men having ownership of women. Married men owning their wives and daughters bodies. The reality is that has never been true.

 

Even in marriage, women are autonomous. Can and will do with their bodies as they please no matter how shocking that concept is to men and brainwashed women.

[understand50]

Well,it happen once,and I'm trying very hard for it not to happen again with him.

I know infidelity is bad,but I've never seen it as the worse event that can happen in a relationship. I've always felt this way even prior to my A.

 

It's odd,because if I flirted with another man I'd feel guilt. If I went to dinner with girlfriends rather than going home and eating dinner with my SO,Id' feel guilt.

As I said,although I do not believe infidelity to be the worse thing to happen in a relationship, I at least assumed I would feel guilt,and when I did not,it alarmed me.

 

OK, fair enough.

 

For myself, if my wife died, or one of my children, grandchildren died, that would be worse, but having infidelity happen to me early, was the most hurtful thing so far. I can also see why you feel you can get over this and go forward with your husband. What we are pointing out, is that he may not be able to, or as you seem to be just thinking this is a small bump in life, he is just holding it inside. That's the point, I am sure the sex was fun, if nothing else, different from your husband. One of the things I had to come to terms with is that my wife had "fun" that night and enjoyed it. She did not like the consequences later, and did not like the pain I felt.

 

I feel for your husband, and if you do not feel guilt for what you did, I hope you feel guilt for betraying him. This maybe the normal, and this is what Mrs JA, went trough, until she saw the pain John endured. Time will tell, for you.

 

 

As always I wish you luck......

 

.

[merrmeade]

Mr. LuLu Bee was pissed, yelled a lot but he's still there when she get's home at night. The point she is missing is what she so freely and easily gave away to this 20 year old Mr. LuLu Bee values enough that he would give his life defending her right to keep it. Guys are taught this from early on in life, they just don't expect you to give it away. Then they start to wonder what else is a lie?

And girls are taught what? Hopefully that monogamy is a shared commitment rather than ownership of something or someone. And that is the point, isn't it? What is your commitment? What would make you feel like you broke it (and give you 'guilt')?

 

And, value judgments aside, I do agree one part of the question IS - what were you taught? What do you actually believe?

[Sub]

She can regret breaking her commitment to her husband ... if she wants to ... but she doesn't have to feel bad about the sex.

 

But how can you have one without the other? Are we saying agreed upon physical fidelity is not part of a commitment to a spouse?

 

And it works both ways, male or female.

[Mrs. John Adams]

What she so freely and easily gave away belongs to her. Not her husband no matter what he may think or feel.

 

What she does with it at any stage of her life is her choice. If her husband or anyone else would risk his life trying to influence that choice, he should be willing to die. Because, ultimately, what she does with it is not up to him. He's been taught the wrong thing.

 

Y'all are trying to make this woman feel bad when she doesn't have to. Her body has always been hers. She can regret breaking her commitment to her husband ... if she wants to ... but she doesn't have to feel bad about the sex.

 

Trying to insist that she must feel bad is an attempt to reinforce the patriarchal view of men having ownership of women. Married men owning their wives and daughters bodies. The reality is that has never been true.

 

Even in marriage, women are autonomous. Can and will do with their bodies as they please no matter how shocking that concept is to men and brainwashed women.

 

it is absolutely her body...that she vowed to keep only for her husband. So even though she is the one in control of her body...she promised in good faith that she would not share her body with others.When two marry...they become one. Now....any couple can have an agreement with each other to be sexual with others. Lulu...has said they do not have an open marriage.

 

When one of the partners....makes the choice to have a sexual relationship...in secrecy...without the knowledge of the other partner....there is an issue.

 

I don't think anyone here would be judgmental against Lulu if she came here and said...i asked my husband if he minded if I screw a fellow worker. He said...go for it!

 

She did not do that...she made the conscience decision to have sex with another man behind her husbands back.

 

Now she tells us...that she felt guilty for flirting with this man...but she feels no guilt for having sex with him.

 

She asked if this is normal. No...I would venture to say...it is not normal.

 

Many here have recommended therapy, and books, and have tried to understand her situation. I am still trying to figure out what she is looking for.

 

If she and her husband are happy...if he is not upset with her...if she still loves him and he still loves her and they intend to stay together....then what is she looking for from loveshack?

 

She appears to be searching for something...but I don't know what that something is.

[aliveagain]

What she so freely and easily gave away belongs to her. Not her husband no matter what he may think or feel.

 

What she does with it at any stage of her life is her choice. If her husband or anyone else would risk his life trying to influence that choice, he should be willing to die. Because, ultimately, what she does with it is not up to him. He's been taught the wrong thing.

 

Y'all are trying to make this woman feel bad when she doesn't have to. Her body has always been hers. She can regret breaking her commitment to her husband ... if she wants to ... but she doesn't have to feel bad about the sex.

 

Trying to insist that she must feel bad is an attempt to reinforce the patriarchal view of men having ownership of women. Married men owning their wives and daughters bodies. The reality is that has never been true.

 

Even in marriage, women are autonomous. Can and will do with their bodies as they please no matter how shocking that concept is to men and brainwashed women.

 

Why make vows to each other then? After all it's only your promise to each other and if you don't intend to keep your word don't swear it in front of witness's and God. I have never owned anyone, my ex could do whatever she wanted with her body as long as it was within our agreed to boundaries and never took away my rights to the paternity of our children. What are you smoking?

[SammySammy]

Why make vows to each other then? After all it's only your promise to each other and if you don't intend to keep your word don't swear it in front of witness's and God. I have never owned anyone, my ex could do whatever she wanted with her body as long as it was within our agreed to boundaries and never took away my rights to the paternity of our children. What are you smoking?

 

She could have done whatever she wanted outside of your agreed to boundaries also. Your vows, boundaries and feelings are not deciding factors.

 

The only thing that keeps a woman faithful to a man (or vice versa) is her decision to be faithful.

 

Sure, we hope when we make vows and build a life together that we'll keep our commitments to each other. However, if that doesn't happen, you have to realize that marriage document or any agreements you made never gave you control over her. Her thoughts, feelings or actions.

 

I'm smoking truth and reality. Want a hit?