12 years of marriage - divorce? Or is there still hope?

[whattodo7654]

Okay, I need some advice. I'll try to share as many details as possible. Emotionally I'm very up and down and don't really know what to do with myself, so it'll help writing these things down even if no one has anything helpful to say But it seems like you're all a friendly bunch, so I hope you'll have some words of wisdom for me. Warning... this is a long story

 

My husband and I have been together for 12 years and have 3 small children. We have our own home. And run a business together. We married young, and come from religious backgrounds. As unhappy as I have been in my marriage, I had never considered that I would one day want a divorce. Until very recently I think I have been in denial about the actual issue in our relationship, but I'll let you all be the judge of that...

 

My husband loses his temper. A lot. Probably at least every other day. He "raises his voice" (his words) at me in front of the kids all the time. When the kids were smaller I didn't think it mattered that much, but the oldest is in school and I know that they pick up on these things more than we know. Even when I ask he is not able to keep his anger in, or even just keep his voice down, or wait until the kids aren't nearby.

 

Typically he can keep it together when other people (family / friends) are around, but not always. When this happens, I do my best to make sure he calms down quickly as it embarrasses me tremendously.

 

Back in December I have told him that I cannot continue to live like this if he keeps screaming at me. Especially in front of the kids. After that he went to see a counselor. I went to him too a few times. It was better for a few days at one point, but then he stopped seeing the counselor for months and everything went back to the way it was before.

 

Whenever there is a disagreement, he always has to win. He twists what I say in to what he wants me to believe I've said.

 

If he doesn't get mad about something I say, he'll be very passive aggressive. I feel like he rarely reacts in a "normal" way to anything I say. It's always either irritated, passive aggressive or angry.

 

He regularly calls me names. This hasn't (yet) happened in front of the kids or anyone else yet. According to him, because I'm such a bitch he gets mad at me. If I wasn't such a bitch he wouldn't react the way he does.

 

He very, very rarely apologizes. I usually end up apologizing, just so the agony of the fight (this can go on for days) is over. Often I know I wasn't wrong and there is no reason for me to apologize, but I do it anyway.

 

When I tell him something that I don't like, such as the yelling, he will find something else he doesn't like about me and throw that in my face instead of addressing my topic of conversation. He will (almost) never actually discuss what I want to discuss. It seems like there is no "normal" communication possible at all.

 

Sometimes when I tell him a few things that bother me, he breaks down completely and it seems like he feels bad about the way he behaved. This is extremely rare though. Typically he would respond by saying something like "If I'm such a bad husband, why don't you find a better one."

 

He doesn't make me feel loved; I don't feel it when he looks at me. I don't believe it when he tells me. I just don't feel that connection and I don't see any real feelings of love of him towards me.

 

There are days that things are great. And I feel happy and think we will grow old together. But then within minutes it can change out of the blue. Most days I feel very unhappy.

 

We've done counselling together three times in our marriage. It never really seemed to change anything much. Maybe it went okay for a while, but communication never improved for long periods of time.

 

I have stayed so far because I would practically die of embarrassment, as divorce is not something that my family will support. I am not a quitter and I feel like I would disappoint so many people in my life if we were to separate. But slowly I'm starting to see that this might actually be an unhealthy relationship. Possibly even emotionally abusive (but I'm no expert, so I don't know). I think it is negatively impacting the kids, or at least gives them a very bad example of what a marriage is about.

 

This week I'm going to make an appointment to see a counselor by myself. I need to find out if this can be fixed or if we need to move on.

 

Any words of advice from anyone that's been there?

[Mr. Lucky]

We've done counselling together three times in our marriage. It never really seemed to change anything much. Maybe it went okay for a while, but communication never improved for long periods of time.

 

What kind of feedback did the counselors give you? Usually there are some strategies involving disengaging and discussion of the biological, psychological and social issues involved.

 

Does he use any of these tools?

 

Mr. Lucky

[whattodo7654]

Update: In addition to the above I thought I'd add this:

 

There have been situations where he has completely exploded and where I felt extremely scared and anxious, worried he might physically hurt me or the kids.

 

He also likes to make jokes about me in front of others. Things like that my memory is awful, that sort of thing. Whenever I playfully joke with him, he loses it and thinks it's disrespectful.

 

He often accuses me of having no respect for him, and not appreciating him.

 

He hasn't physically laid hands on me, expect for pushed me aside once, a long time ago.

 

He has threatened that if I would leave he'd have no reason to live. I'm his reason for living, so he'll end his life.

[whattodo7654]

What kind of feedback did the counselors give you? Usually there are some strategies involving disengaging and discussion of the biological, psychological and social issues involved.

 

Does he use any of these tools?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Most of it was focused on improving communication. Making sure that when one of us speaks, the other person listens and repeats back in their own words what was said, to make sure that the interpretation was correct. This is a tool that I find very helpful, but to him it is irritating.

 

In addition, I have been told that I should not feel responsible for the way he responds. In response to my question how I can avoid him losing his temper. I think that is valid as I cannot control him, but I wish that there was something I could do.

 

There are several traumatic events in his past that in my opinion have never been properly dealt with. He isn't really ready to deal with these issues he says, when it's come up in counselling sessions.

[healingsoul]

I think you have already done what you need to do. You are making an appointment to see a counselor. You will hopefully find out that your husbands continual rages are emotionally abusive and not something that you need to endure. If he will not get help himself to find out what is underneath all of his anger, you will need to look at separating for the mental and emotional health of yourself and your children. BUT do not do this hastily. You must have a plan in place because of the very fact that he is so angry. Has he ever been physically abusive? And lastly, the only person you have to please (since you are religious) is not people but God so don't worry about what others think.

 

You children will respect you in the end for helping them to have a safe place to live.

[PegNosePete]

There have been situations where he has completely exploded and where I felt extremely scared and anxious, worried he might physically hurt me or the kids.

Has he ever done that?

 

If not, it's only a matter of time.

 

You might think I'm being over-dramatic but this is how every abusive relationship starts. First it is verbal then physical.

 

You need to tell him that this treatment of you is NOT ACCEPTABLE and if he can't fix it then you will be leaving him.

 

He has threatened that if I would leave he'd have no reason to live. I'm his reason for living, so he'll end his life.

You need to tell him that this is NOT your problem. Again that may sound harsh but it's really unfair of him to say basically "I will treat you however I want, and if you don't like it I will emotionally blackmail you". What kind of loving husband says that? I'll tell you: an abusive one.

 

You need to STOP this behaviour before it gets any worse, because it WILL get worse.

[whattodo7654]

I think you have already done what you need to do. You are making an appointment to see a counselor. You will hopefully find out that your husbands continual rages are emotionally abusive and not something that you need to endure. If he will not get help himself to find out what is underneath all of his anger, you will need to look at separating for the mental and emotional health of yourself and your children. BUT do not do this hastily. You must have a plan in place because of the very fact that he is so angry. Has he ever been physically abusive? And lastly, the only person you have to please (since you are religious) is not people but God so don't worry about what others think.

 

You children will respect you in the end for helping them to have a safe place to live.

 

Thank you for your response; I appreciate it! He has never laid his hands on me, just pushed me aside once, but that was a very long time ago. I don't think he would hurt me or the kids physically.

[whattodo7654]

Has he ever done that?

 

If not, it's only a matter of time.

 

You might think I'm being over-dramatic but this is how every abusive relationship starts. First it is verbal then physical.

 

You need to tell him that this treatment of you is NOT ACCEPTABLE and if he can't fix it then you will be leaving him.

 

 

You need to tell him that this is NOT your problem. Again that may sound harsh but it's really unfair of him to say basically "I will treat you however I want, and if you don't like it I will emotionally blackmail you". What kind of loving husband says that? I'll tell you: an abusive one.

 

You need to STOP this behaviour before it gets any worse, because it WILL get worse.

 

In the angry moments I'm afraid, but when it comes down to it I don't think he will physically hurt me or the kids, however it does make me anxious. He's pushed me aside once years ago. Hasn't happened since though.

 

Thank you for your input. I agree, it needs to stop. But I'm not sure if there's anything that would help at this point. I'm not sure if he's willing and able to stop...

[whattodo7654]

I have made the appointment with the counsellor for this week, so I'm hoping to get a better idea of what I can do and if this is something that is worth fighting for.

[Mr. Lucky]

You've hit the wall any and all of have in dealing with a loved one's destructive behavior - the choice to make necessary change and put in the required effort isn't up to you. You're reduced to the role of spectator as major parts of your life are decided, an unsettling place to be.

 

I'd work with your counselor to clearly define the boundaries you need for the marriage to succeed. And then I'd have the courage and strength of conviction to stick to my guns. Keep posting, let us know...

 

Mr. Lucky

[PegNosePete]

I'd work with your counselor to clearly define the boundaries you need for the marriage to succeed. And then I'd have the courage and strength of conviction to stick to my guns. Keep posting, let us know...

Yep, agreed with this. Work with your counselor alone to determine what is acceptable to YOU and what needs to change for YOU to stay. Then you need to find out if he is willing to change to be what you need, or not. If not, then you need to have the self-respect and strength to walk away.

[Mr. Lucky]

Back in December I have told him that I cannot continue to live like this if he keeps screaming at me. Especially in front of the kids. After that he went to see a counselor. I went to him too a few times. It was better for a few days at one point, but then he stopped seeing the counselor for months and everything went back to the way it was before.

 

Do you think he realizes what's at stake? Did you discuss separation/divorce in MC if things didn't improve?

 

"I cannot continue to live like this" is different than "I'm leaving you in 6 months if this doesn't change and you don't address your issues". Some spouses are so far into denial that it takes a gut punch to get their attention. He has to understand this isn't about wrong or right, it's about functional/dysfunctional - and you don't do dysfunctional ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sabella]

You ask if there is hope to save the marriage? There is if you both want to truly work on it.

 

I will share the cliff notes version of me, and why it may not work and won't work in my circumstance.

 

I've been married longer than you and my H had the same anger tendencies. During the early years they only happened when he would drink too much. So my initial focus was to deal with his alcohol issues. That went back and forth for years. I was ready to walk out when I came home from teaching a class, maybe two hours long, to find him passed out dead drunk with the 3 small kids running about. I couldn't even get inside because it was deadbolted, had to break into my own house. He went cold turkey with drinking. Did not slip ever for years (6) it was pretty amazing to me. BUT...that didn't stop the anger outburst. I was baffled.

 

We did bouts of counseling. Lots of honest talks. Things would be better for a long time, but I'd say they never really went away.

 

Like your circumstance, he did not hit me. there was an incidence once when we were dating and he pushed me. He pushed me so hard and ended up catching me near the throat area, knocked the breath out of me. That never happened again.

 

My H is in a very high position at work and very respected. He has almost always been able to keep it together there, and when we were out with friends. People would never believe he even had this side to him. Friends are shocked we are separating, like floored.

 

So my part was just coping, and trying to lessen the damage, for years this was how I operated. He would come home on edge, and I would be on eggshells trying too keep the kids out of his hair, or quiet. That wasn't always, but it was constant enough to be very stressful. The kids are slightly afraid of him as well, but they don't say much.

 

This went on for a long time, it was just my normal after a while. But I was resentful. I resigned myself to getting through it for the kids and I became more distant from him. Eventually lost all interest in sex. My story gets more messed up in a different direction...

 

His outbursts where shouting and sometimes breaking things. He was fine, until he was not fine. He never seemed to adress how to deal with the anger. I tried all kinds of ways to cope. Sometimes ignore, sometimes shout back. It didn't matter once he was ranting and raging.

 

A few weeks ago he was in a mood and my 17 year old cat was crying outside to be let in and fed. I heard my H stomp downstairs and angrily open the door. Then I heard my cat moaning, the most god awful sound. H called to me for help. He said "idk what happened, I just shooed him away with my foot"

I can't write this without losing it. But my cat was lying on the concrete, unable to move, small blood spatters out his nose. I can't even tell you more. It was horrible and he had to be put to sleep. H did not mean to hurt him, yet that's what he did during his lack of control.

 

I could not get past this. In this moment I knew I would never be able to fully trust my H, ever. I knew that I would not forgive him. I knew that I would not ever be able to fully relax around him if I sensed a "mood." I'd rather be alone.

 

Is it fixable for you? I think it is if you both really work on it and you see changes. Be honest with yourself, do you trust him? Will you be able to in the future? Only you can answer these questions through honest work and therapy.

 

I think I avoided too much confrontation, but that's the nature of a relationship with this dynamic. So be mindful of what you feel deep down, be honest with yourself. I wasn't.

[VeveCakes]

Been there, done that.

 

I kicked my husband out 9 months ago and wish I did it years ago.

 

This is not a healthy or safe relationship. I would leave like, yesterday.

[whattodo7654]

 

Is it fixable for you? I think it is if you both really work on it and you see changes. Be honest with yourself, do you trust him? Will you be able to in the future? Only you can answer these questions through honest work and therapy.

 

I think I avoided too much confrontation, but that's the nature of a relationship with this dynamic. So be mindful of what you feel deep down, be honest with yourself. I wasn't.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. I recognize a LOT of what you're saying... It's good to know that I'm not alone and that there are others in very similar situations.

 

Just a general update:

 

We both saw a counsellor yesterday and we are going to try and work on this. The night before we talked and he realized that I had one foot out the door and he broke completely. He has apologized a lot and really wants to try and work on himself. I know he is serious and feels very guilty. But feeling guilty and taking action are two different things. So only time will tell if he actually will put in the work and if he can actually change his behaviour.

 

We have a plan in place though and I'm willing to give it another shot. There's going to be counselling, anger management course, etc.

I am not ready to walk out. I really hope that this time he realizes he's on borrowed time and that a lot needs to happen.

 

I've got my own things to work on (nobody is perfect!) so I'll need to put in the effort too.

[Mr. Lucky]

We have a plan in place though and I'm willing to give it another shot. There's going to be counselling, anger management course, etc.

I am not ready to walk out. I really hope that this time he realizes he's on borrowed time and that a lot needs to happen.

 

I've got my own things to work on (nobody is perfect!) so I'll need to put in the effort too.

 

Wishing you both the best of luck as you address this as a couple. Keep us posted ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sabella]

I'm truly happy you are both trying to work things out through counseling. I'm wishing you nothing but the best on your journey together. Good luck

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

He has threatened that if I would leave he'd have no reason to live. I'm his reason for living, so he'll end his life.

 

This is obviously pure manipulation.

 

 

If you were his "reason for living" he would treat you with at least the common decency and common courtesy that he would extent to a complete stranger on the street.

 

 

He isn't even treating you as well as a stranger.

[oldshirt]

Do you think he realizes what's at stake? Did you discuss separation/divorce in MC if things didn't improve?

 

"I cannot continue to live like this" is different than "I'm leaving you in 6 months if this doesn't change and you don't address your issues". Some spouses are so far into denial that it takes a gut punch to get their attention. He has to understand this isn't about wrong or right, it's about functional/dysfunctional - and you don't do dysfunctional ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Truth.

 

 

However words without action are only a plea for mercy.

 

 

A far more effective means to address abuse and maltreatment is to actually exit the home, file for protective order and temporary child custody/child support, find a place of your own and draw up divorce papers that are ready to be filed at a moments notice.

 

 

Then then if you still want to remain married and to offer a 2nd chance, give them "X" amount of time to complete anger management and individual counseling and be a decent person for at least "Y" number of months/years before you consider returning to the marital home and marriage.

 

 

If they slip up once or only pay lip-service to truly changing, then file the papers and move on.

[privategal]

I came from a penecostal baptist family and when the marriage was aweful and not working I filed for divorce.

God was the only judge, if my family, church friends wanted to judge or leave me...so be it.

If I went to hell as a result of divorce..fine.