Apologize or let go?

[sorano]

Wow Sorano,

 

Thank you for telling your story and I am sorry that happened to you. Nobody deserves to be treated like that. Although our stories are different, there are also similarities.

 

My ex turned vindictive and cruel towards the end as well. Completely different from how she was in the beginning of the relationship, but at that time I was already so in love, I would have practically done everything to make her happy and to keep her. Unfortunately for me, that also included lying....During the final fallout, she made me feel worthless and devalued me like nobody else ever done before and it was coming from somebody I loved. At that point, there was just no turning back, despite how I felt about her or where it was coming from. At that point, I had to go into self preservation mode.

 

I do think you should wish her well and forgive her. I have learned a long time ago, that people that treat other people badly, are dealing with issues themselves. Don't let whatever she said or did to you make you think any less of yourself, but at the same time you should also be your own biggest critic.

 

Yes, she did have issues. But do not ruin someone else's life with them. I would have helped her with anything. I was there for her.

 

My ex did the same thing. She turned and changed. She became the person that she said she would never be and hate. I was too in love to see the signs.

 

How she treated me and some stuff she said, not even the animals in the jungle act like that. So I cannot wish her well. I can forgive and forget but not this time.

[SixxChick]

she also said I was too nice. she didnt know how to handle men nicer than her. Ok, so go back to the guy that beat you. Go back to the guy that cheated on you. IMO, women LOVE men like that.

 

No, not all of us women love men like that. Your post reminded me of something my ex told me over and over. "You're too good to me." And, "I don't deserve you." I didn't understand that at the time, but I do now. I don't wish him well either since he totally used me. Or, I LET him use me.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. But there are a lot of similarities in a lot of our stories on here. I hurts to be stung so bad.

 

Be well.

[sorano]

All of our stories are very similar and we are trying to help each other cope. Everyone who got dumped is struggling. Your pain is right along mine.

[bathtub-row]

Thank you for sharing, bathtub. I also appreciate that your comment is coming from a woman's perspective.

 

I really care about this woman a lot, so although she really cut me to the bone with her words in the very end, this isn't a pride or ego issue for me. I know my worth and it isn't defined by what she said. I am very aware that our breakup was very tough on her, though.

 

I also know that even if she actually was sorry for all the things she said, she wouldn't apologize. It's just not in her nature to, due to fear I would reject it or her.

 

I honestly have no idea if your email will hurt her or not but I still think it's worth sending.

 

Before you do that though, you may want to subscribe to an email tracker like HubSpot (used to be called Sidekick). You can tell if she opens the email. That way, if she doesn't respond, at least you'll know she got it.

[Breakupblues]

Sorano

Yes, she did have issues. But do not ruin someone else's life with them. I would have helped her with anything. I was there for her.

 

My ex did the same thing. She turned and changed. She became the person that she said she would never be and hate. I was too in love to see the signs.

 

How she treated me and some stuff she said, not even the animals in the jungle act like that. So I cannot wish her well. I can forgive and forget but not this time.

Today 2:36 PM

 

I don't think people that have mental or emotional struggles can really oversee the damage they can cause to other people, including their loved ones. I think they struggle more than the people they harm though. That's not a reason to stick around of course to be subjected to it, but I still sympathize.

 

I understand what you mean with being too blind. Same was the case for me. I always think there are ways to work things out and believe in transparent communication. I felt I had to be way too diplomatic with my ex in some of the discussions we had to solve and deal with issues. Only when I stepped back when the relationship was over, that became clear to me.

 

Perhaps you can try this approach to forgive: I look at love as a spectrum, where there are different ways that you can express that love. At one of the fringe ends of that spectrum stands forgiveness, which then becomes the ultimate expression of that love. It is your ultimate test. In other words, if you truly love your ex or loved her, you should give her that gift and piece of yourself too. That's the only thing that will save you and free you from the way you feel about having your heart broken like this. Well, it was for me.

 

It's also the only way and the ultimate test for a couple to stay together, when things get rough. For me there are three things that kill a relationship. (1) Infidelity, (2) Big lies such as criminal record, lying about your job title or income, lying about your most special feelings, etc...etc...(3) intentionally hurting people. The rest, I am personally always going to be willing to work on things. Depending on the circumstances, I could probably also at least try for the three things I mentioned.

 

Sixxchick

No, not all of us women love men like that. Your post reminded me of something my ex told me over and over. "You're too good to me." And, "I don't deserve you." I didn't understand that at the time, but I do now. I don't wish him well either since he totally used me. Or, I LET him use me.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. But there are a lot of similarities in a lot of our stories on here. I hurts to be stung so bad.

 

Be well.

 

Hey SixxChick, please don't feel like you're imposing on the thread, or taking over. This is a public forum so feel free to chip in and what not. Not a problem at all.

 

Bathtub

I honestly have no idea if your email will hurt her or not but I still think it's worth sending.

 

Before you do that though, you may want to subscribe to an email tracker like HubSpot (used to be called Sidekick). You can tell if she opens the email. That way, if she doesn't respond, at least you'll know she got it.

Today 7:53 PM

 

Yes, I will give it some more thought. I actually feel a lot better about this just by discussing it and writing my thoughts down.

 

My work email actually tracks, so I would be able to tell. Actually during our final fallout, I sent her a long email where I told her how much she purposely hurt me and how difficult it was to date her and what I put up with dealing with her. Without getting into details because I didn't want to hurt her feelings either by saying things, but I did let her know that I won't ever stand for such treatment.

 

On IM she then said it was pathetic I sent her that email and that she wouldn't even read it. Straight filtered, she said. I know that wasn't true though. I could see that she read it that same night at least three times.

 

She also read that same email, in combination with a followup where I told her that I forgave her for what she did. That was literally a two sentence email where I told her all is good, and that I wished her the best. I deliberately constructed that email in a way that couldn't be interpreted as room for her to reach out to me. I wasn't really open to that.

 

She reread both of those messages multiple times for more than 6 months after I sent them to her. Once again, not everything she says is true, because I wasn't blocked at all on email. Just social media and IM messengers. She deliberately says and does these things to hurt me and/or to keep me at distance so she can protect herself. I understand that about her though. I am not upset about it or hurt.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Breakupblues

[leepetrus]

I say do it. I myself am writing a apology e-mail too. The reason I say so is because often times people might still be bitter, angry or feel bad over how things fell apart. And hearing someone is sorry for the things that were done to them set them free of their pain, because finally the wrongdoer is seeking reparation and understands the gravity of what was done.

 

Whatever the motive, what makes an apology work is the exchange of shame and power between the offender and the offended. By apologizing, you take the shame of your offense and redirect it to yourself. You admit to hurting or diminishing someone and, in effect, say that you are really the one who is diminished--I'm the one who was wrong, mistaken, insensitive, or stupid. In acknowledging your shame you give the offended the power to forgive. The exchange is at the heart of the healing process.

 

IMO you also must name the offense--no glossing over in generalities.

 

This is one of the most unifying elements of the apology. By acknowledging that a moral norm was violated, both parties affirm a similar set of values. The apology reestablishes a common moral ground.

 

I am writing one myself, like i said. However, I do agree with someone posted before, which is, take off the "I care about you" because it really sounds patronizing or "higher grounded". Be humble and admit your failures. Live up to them and take responsibility for them.

[bummer]

Yes. An apology will certainly help a rational person see your moral bearing and place with the former relationship.

 

But your ex doesn't sound rational. Wanted to make babies a month into the relationship? Cant handle joking criticism? Sounds earily like my ex (shy-type with childhood trauma and a conflict avoidant nature) and exactly like the stories and cycle of so many people on LS who dealt with insanity and still love the ex! Downtown's threads on bpd, and other discussions about love avoidant and love addicted personalities have opened my eyes to a language of understanding I never knew. Not all the things match my story, or yours I assume, but realize you dodged a bullet and you should move forward.

 

Forget the apology. She probably will interpret it exactly the opposite of how you intend, if your ex is like mine, to twist reality to suite her mood. leave her to sort her past issues out by herself. You'll only confuse her and add to the guilt she's trying to hide and avoid.

 

On a side note, I also had lies which cost me the relationship according to the ex. I know now that these were important issues i didnt address exactly as she demanded. in the end she placed these excessive promises and demands as a buffer and later ammo to allow her to see herself as victim and exit the relationship that she already had doubts about.

 

I wonder what your lies were about if you care to share?

[Breakupblues]

However' date=' I do agree with someone posted before, which is, take off the "I care about you" because it really sounds patronizing or "higher grounded".[/quote']

 

I have given that some thought, but I honestly can't think of any reason why saying I care about her would be patronizing or condescending. I actually still love that woman, but I don't really think it's the appropriate thing to say in the email I am thinking about sending.

 

Yes. An apology will certainly help a rational person see your moral bearing and place with the former relationship.

 

But your ex doesn't sound rational. Wanted to make babies a month into the relationship? Cant handle joking criticism? Sounds earily like my ex (shy-type with childhood trauma and a conflict avoidant nature) and exactly like the stories and cycle of so many people on LS who dealt with insanity and still love the ex! Downtown's threads on bpd, and other discussions about love avoidant and love addicted personalities have opened my eyes to a language of understanding I never knew. Not all the things match my story, or yours I assume, but realize you dodged a bullet and you should move forward.

 

Forget the apology. She probably will interpret it exactly the opposite of how you intend, if your ex is like mine, to twist reality to suite her mood. leave her to sort her past issues out by herself. You'll only confuse her and add to the guilt she's trying to hide and avoid.

 

On a side note, I also had lies which cost me the relationship according to the ex. I know now that these were important issues i didnt address exactly as she demanded. in the end she placed these excessive promises and demands as a buffer and later ammo to allow her to see herself as victim and exit the relationship that she already had doubts about.

 

I wonder what your lies were about if you care to share?

 

She's the emotional type yes. She thinks with her heart and her feelings, but she does contemplate and give things elaborate thought. As I mentioned, there's definitely context to my examples. For instance, she got pregnant the second time we slept together even though she was on the pill. She never told me, until after she terminated that pregnancy many many months later. The reason my response to her wanting babies so soon, was upsetting for her was because it was so clinical and factual, while she went through the process to end that pregnancy all by herself. In my defense, it was hardly possible for me to be sensitive and emphatic over something I don't even have any idea about, it went on.

 

Although our stories may be different, I sense that you can relate exactly to what I been through here. Could you refer me to downtown's threads? I'd love to read up on them, to see what my experiences have in common with those stories. I keep telling myself I dodged a bullet, but there were also many great things about the relationship. I was also fully prepared to deal with all the bad parts.

 

I am still leaning towards not sending, but frankly I don't care if she would interpret the apology as vindication for her being "right." Like you stated, I'd care if it would add to her confusion and stress or guilt, if that's what she's trying to avoid. I wouldn't want THAT to happen.

 

Once again, our stories are probably different, but I really sense you know what I am talking about. We had a long distance relationship, and I lied about my whereabouts twice. She was really unhappy about the effort I put forth in the relationship in the beginning of it and wanted me to step to the plate in taking initiative. I'd say I am definitely a slow starter in any relationship, but once I feel it's serious and can go somewhere I do whatever is required to show my sincerity.

 

The first time I lied about my whereabouts,was due to her complaining and being upset with me about trivial stuff I can't even remember anymore. Her attitude was rooted in jealousy and I didn't feel like dealing with it for a fourth day in a row, so I made up a story about leaving town.

 

The second time I lied about my whereabouts was related to her shutting me down when I was trying to be responsive to her needs. I told her I'd be in LA for a business trip and that I could take 5 days off to be with her before or after that meeting. Given that she was upset with my efforts to take initiative in the past, I really expected her to be happy that I was planning a trip together.

 

Instead she told me she didn't want to see me, because my trip to the west coast wasn't "about her." It literally drove me up against the walls because in my mind, what does it matter? Five days on the west coast together would have been wonderful and I was still there for her.

 

So then when my meeting got canceled, I never mentioned that to her. She found out I never went and that was the nail in the coffin for us. You may ask, why didn't you just tell her it got canceled, and maybe I should have, but in my mind I was thinking that if I told her it was, she would not believe I ever really planned on seeing her, while I was out there. We were already in the process of breaking up at that time and I didn't want to add any more fuel to the fire. It was really stupid and dumb on my part, but I felt the same way about her rejection of my plans for a trip together. I actually planned a number of trips, but they were just never "good enough" for her.

 

That was extremely frustrating. I was trying to fix and correct something she was complaining about, but then when I tried. she would reject it herself. Yet, still blame me for it. lol.

 

We broke up over really stupid and silly stuff that even she said could have been "easily fixed." She never considered how her flip flopping attitude about breaking up was affecting me. To be constantly on egg shells and feel like being yanked all over the place feels awful. It was almost like she was "happy" she caught me in lies, because now she had a real and valid excuse why things ended and point at me for the blame.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Breakupblues

[bummer]

Eggshells and fights and a breakup over little stuff means it wasnt meant to be.

 

Here is downtown's profile. most threads have two valuable links. Also below is clipped from someone's thread response. I don't know who, my apologies for not giving credit, but I saved it because it rang true to me:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/84986-downtown/

 

Quote of someone on LS:

 

...At one point or another, we are all love addicts. Some have been disguising there pain through being love a "avoidant".

What is a love addict?

Love addiction is when people become addicted to the feeling of being in love. They generally have unfulfilled emotional needs that they seek to satisfy with romance or relationships. Unfortunately they tend to form relationships with individuals who are love avoidant.

What is a love avoidant?

Love avoidance is the systematic putting up of walls in a relationship to prevent feeling emotionally overwhelmed by another person. Consequently, it prevents true intimacy. It can be described as a form of emotional anorexia. The love avoidant perceives love as being an obligation or duty, so relationships are experienced as an emotional drain. The love avoidant tends to become involved with love addicts, and puts up walls to decrease the intensity within the relationship. However, the more the avoidant distances, the more the love addict pursues. The avoidant often responds by a pattern of deprivation within the primary relationship, while acting in ways that create intensity outside of that relationship (e.g., work, pursuing other relationships or sexual encounters, addictions, etc.).

 

I say this without judgement, but being one or the other, keeps you in a dark pattern that is highly dysfunctional. The soul connections we might have experienced you and I, were glimpses of what a fulfilled soul connection is or feels like. But we were not aware of how unconscious we were at the time.

 

Every addiction comes from an unconscious refusal to face and move through your own pain. Every addiction starts with pain and ends with pain. Whatever the substance you are addicted to - alcohol, food, legal or illegal drugs, or a person - we are using something or somebody to cover up our pain. That is why, after the initial euphoria has passed, there is so much unhappiness, so much pain in intimate relationships. They do not cause pain or unhappiness. They BRING OUT the pain and unhappiness that is already in you. Every addiction does that. Every addiction reaches a point where it does not work for you anymore, and then you feel the pain more intensely than ever.

 

Avoidance of relationships in an attempt to avoid pain is not the answer either.

[Breakupblues]

Eggshells and fights and a breakup over little stuff means it wasnt meant to be.

 

 

Yes, I agree that it wasn't meant to be. I can deal with that part, although I wish it was different. It's more the confusion whether or not to send this apology and not knowing how it will affect her if I do, or if I don't.

[spiderowl]

If she had a difficult childhood with people she couldn't trust to be honest with her, then dishonesty (however small) would have been a dealbreaker. It seems as though you really do love her though and you've acknowledged your part in this.

 

I think you should trust your instinct here. Listening to views on here may add to your confusion for a while, but let it settle in you mind and then see what surfaces.

[Breakupblues]

If she had a difficult childhood with people she couldn't trust to be honest with her, then dishonesty (however small) would have been a dealbreaker. It seems as though you really do love her though and you've acknowledged your part in this.

 

I think you should trust your instinct here. Listening to views on here may add to your confusion for a while, but let it settle in you mind and then see what surfaces.

 

I know she did, and I'm pretty sure she's been in a few pretty bad/abusive relationships before.

 

Yes, I definitely acknowledge my part in everything, but what's done is done. Would I have done things differently? Absolutely, but I can't. So now it's about damage control. I would certainly appreciate an apology from her for how she treated me but I know that won't ever come. At the same token, I am not sure if she wants one, and how if I would give her one, she would respond to it.

 

As I mentioned, this isn't a pride issue for me. I am confident I can go NC for the rest of my life, but I still feel responsible for hurting her. What I did, isolated and independent from all the other issues, was just a bad thing to do, and I know it hurt her a lot. I should have never done it.

 

So I'm not sure if an apology would be helpful or not helpful to her. I have been reading up on BPD and I learned that I may now be considered a source of anxiety for her. In any way shape or form I am reaching out to her now, can result in additional stress for her. I am not 100% if that's what she has or if that would be the case given our history, but I do recognize a lot of the way that illness is described in what I've read so far, as being a part of the relationship.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Breakupblues

[bummer]

but I still feel responsible for hurting her. What I did, isolated and independent from all the other issues, was just a bad thing to do, and I know it hurt her a lot. I should have never done it.

 

I forgive you. Does that help? You need to relieve guilt. I do to.

 

I broke NC yesterday by text as I am trying to get one item back from the ex (sorry LS!). She uses the opportunity to reiterate she didn't return it out of fear and that she still feels angry and hurt only. I use the excuse to again apologize for what I did and express sorrow she doesn't want to work on it together.

 

My apology? No answer except a curt reply she will try to return the item. No thanks, no reciprocal reply of positivity from a rational partner, nothing. My apology again was her validation she's the victim...

 

As you said, your ex probably will never apologize for what she contributed. my ex never has or will apologize. It's a game. Maybe your ex will internalize your apology positively, maybe she'll say thanks and sorry back. Maybe she'll internalize it as you admitting guilt so she can remain with her ego intact in which case you're better off farting in the wind. who is she?

 

You did what seemed best at the time and now you feel guilty. Me too. Try the harder route and forgive yourself and focus on not making the same mistake with the next girl.

[Breakupblues]

I forgive you. Does that help? You need to relieve guilt. I do to.

 

I broke NC yesterday by text as I am trying to get one item back from the ex (sorry LS!). She uses the opportunity to reiterate she didn't return it out of fear and that she still feels angry and hurt only. I use the excuse to again apologize for what I did and express sorrow she doesn't want to work on it together.

 

My apology? No answer except a curt reply she will try to return the item. No thanks, no reciprocal reply of positivity from a rational partner, nothing. My apology again was her validation she's the victim...

 

As you said, your ex probably will never apologize for what she contributed. my ex never has or will apologize. It's a game. Maybe your ex will internalize your apology positively, maybe she'll say thanks and sorry back. Maybe she'll internalize it as you admitting guilt so she can remain with her ego intact in which case you're better off farting in the wind. who is she?

 

You did what seemed best at the time and now you feel guilty. Me too. Try the harder route and forgive yourself and focus on not making the same mistake with the next girl.

 

 

Well, I have forgiven myself in the objective sense a long time ago. So that's not the issue. I don't feel "guilty" as in I am a terrible person, who "sinned" or anything like that. My issue stems from a sense of responsibility. You do something wrong or you mess up, you go out of your way to correct it and I still feel there may be an uncompleted task out there for me, because subjectively, there is still a person out there hurt over something I did. In other words, me forgiving myself, doesn't alleviate any pain or damage I caused to my ex.

 

Yes, I don't have desires to break NC for reasons like that. I don't need to speak with her or reach out to her to reestablish any form of contact. It's entirely fine, for that not to happen.

 

I think that what could happen in my case, is that she just doesn't respond. She said that my emails were filtered directly to her trashcan, but I am positive that's not the case. She will most likely just read it and regardless of how it will make her feel, just won't respond. Her goal is to make it seem that she doesn't care and that I am easily disposable to her and that what happened doesn't affect her. It's a way for her to protect herself. But you're right. It's definitely a game. That really sucks, because I am not interested in playing them, nor was I.

 

Yes, I'd hope that she would internalize it positively. All the other stuff, such as if she is proclaiming victory, are things I am not really concerned with. I don't have a fragile ego but I do wish she would look at her own actions a bit more critically. Not for me, but for her own good, most of all.

 

Already forgiven myself. Just not sure what to do given I don't know if a person I love is out there still dealing with something I am the cause of and if that's contingent on an apology from my side or not. I am afraid, I won't be dating for a while. I totally know there are many awesome women out there, but for now just not interested. I wouldn't be able to put a lot into it.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Breakupblues

[leepetrus]

You do something wrong or you mess up, you go out of your way to correct it and I still feel there may be an uncompleted task out there for me, because subjectively, there is still a person out there hurt over something I did. In other words, me forgiving myself, doesn't alleviate any pain or damage I caused to my ex.

 

This. This is the right mindset. It's not about yourself. It's about owning up the crap you've done so the other person who you hurt can heal and move on from this story.

I have been severely bullied in high school and still today it makes me wonder and wait if someday one of the kids who bullied me will ever say 'I'm sorry' or ask for forgiveness. It would go a long way in the healing process.

 

On the other hand, I had a girl with whom I dated that eventually treated me like crap. Fast forward one year after the end, I meet her in the gym and she apologizes for what she did during the relationship. I forgave her and it was all good after that.

 

Yes, I don't have desires to break NC for reasons like that. I don't need to speak with her or reach out to her to reestablish any form of contact. It's entirely fine, for that not to happen.

 

I think that what could happen in my case, is that she just doesn't respond.

This is the "worst case scenario". Then, again, it's nothing different from what you already have right now. Just make sure you REALLY don't expect anything. When you apologize, you put yourself in a most humble position and cannot demand acceptance, otherwise it won't be sincere. Leave it be, because once you do it, the ball will be on her court and it will be up to her whether she's going to forgive you or not.

 

Already forgiven myself. Just not sure what to do given I don't know if a person I love is out there still dealing with something I am the cause of and if that's contingent on an apology from my side or not. I am afraid, I won't be dating for a while. I totally know there are many awesome women out there, but for now just not interested. I wouldn't be able to put a lot into it.

Don't rush into dating again. It's great that you have forgiven yourself, which is the hardest part to do. Also it is very nice that you going out of your way to take responsibility for it. That's the way we grow up. Simply apologizing is not enough, but when you reflect on your actions and realize that other people suffer because of what you do, then you are growing up.

 

Way to go, dude. Once again, I say do it. Owning up your mistakes is never a bad thing, more so when you're offering the chance to the other person to move on, too.

[bummer]

Your call.

 

You say in the letter you already apologised and added an I love you which she didn't like. The final paragraph of the first post you say you want to talk to her and you miss her a lot. All reasonable, but I hope you aren't sending this just as a breadcrumb to stir the pot and poke the dragon so you feel better?

 

After this thread and your own reflection, does the letter address the error clearly? Does the letter, as a final shot with a small chance of reply, make you happier or better? Will sendinf it let you move on? Since it will filter to her trash as you clarified, there's no real harm to her if she reads her trash and doesn't like it.

 

Sending more positive energy and trying to right the wrong are noble. I can't judge since I broke NC myself to clear my chest so to speak.

[Breakupblues]

Your call.

 

You say in the letter you already apologised and added an I love you which she didn't like.

 

We had communication after our breakup that went on for a very long time, literally a months long process. She was very hurt and she probably didn't believe my apologies and that I was sorry. It was "cruel" for me to say those things to her, in her mind.

 

The final paragraph of the first post you say you want to talk to her and you miss her a lot. All reasonable, but I hope you aren't sending this just as a breadcrumb to stir the pot and poke the dragon so you feel better?

 

Yes I would definitely want that. But it's just not up to me at this point. For us to talk, requires two people and if she's not open to that, I have no choice. I am fine with THAT part, yes. I don't think she is open to reconciliation either (pretty sure), so I don't really think an apology would be received as such by her. I could be wrong though.

 

After this thread and your own reflection, does the letter address the error clearly? Does the letter, as a final shot with a small chance of reply, make you happier or better? Will sendinf it let you move on?

 

I'm still not really certain. It feels good to discuss what happened with others that have no colored or preconceived notions and can share their own independent opinions, based on their own experiences though. I think the letter would be OK, when dealing with 99.9% of any of my other exes, in case I did something wrong. I usually date pretty rational and straightforward women that tend to be assertive. so this pretty new to me too. With this ex, things are just a bit different I guess. I would like a reply, but I would place more value in knowing how she is doing, and if an apology would help her move on and alleviate any hurt/pain she may be feeling if that is the case. I am as moved on as I will ever be, I think. I am not sulking in my own misery, so to speak (that's behind me), but it's also still not completely out of my system.

 

Since it will filter to her trash as you clarified, there's no real harm to her if she reads her trash and doesn't like it.

 

She SAYS my messages are filtered, but I am quite sure they aren't If I send her something, I am pretty sure she will read it immediately. She just doesn't want to give the appearance that she is available to me. To protect herself I guess and probably to deliberately frustrate me. It's easier for her to ignore me, when I am under the impression she can't be contacted by me.

 

Sending more positive energy and trying to right the wrong are noble. I can't judge since I broke NC myself to clear my chest so to speak.

 

Yeah, it sucks when you aren't certain what the right thing to do is.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Breakupblues

[juniorrocha]

I read almost the entire thread, but there's something I'm still wondering: do you have any intention of getting back with her?

 

Do you really want to send that e-mail just because you want to apologize? One year after the break up, is that all you want to do? Would that matter now?

 

I don't know. I think I wouldn't send it. So you say sorry to your ex and that's it? Your only intention is to make her suffer less, even though you aren't even sure whether she's suffering or not in the first place?

 

Also, about her blocking etc or not coming after you. I really don't understand why do people think that they are the ones to come back if there's something to be said or done. What if both of you are just waiting for the other one to show up? It could be that she doesn't want to talk to you ever again, but it also could be that she wants to but is afraid of being rejected, therefore she's waiting, or she blocked as an attempt to move on, even caring about you. There are a hundred possibilities. If she's here on LS, I'm sure everyone told her to "get out of it, he's a liar, go NC forever, block on everything". Even if deep inside she wants to talk to you again. My ex, for example, didn't block me on anything. I didn't block her either. Are we contacting each other? No. Do I want to go back to her? Not really. Now just because I'm unblocked, does it means she's waiting for me to appear? Nop! It's all very relative, you can't really tell what's going on unless you do something about it.

 

In all honesty, I would only contact an ex a year after the break up IF I had any intention of having her in my life again, be it as a friend or a second chance as my girlfriend again. A late sorry would make absolutely no sense to me. I would be like "eh, alright, whatever". lol

[Breakupblues]

I read almost the entire thread, but there's something I'm still wondering: do you have any intention of getting back with her?

 

Hey Junior,

 

Thank you for the input.

 

I don't think we can overcome the damage that's been done, so for that reason, it would probably not be wise to get back together or even attempt to get back together. I do still love her a lot though.

 

Do you really want to send that e-mail just because you want to apologize? One year after the break up, is that all you want to do? Would that matter now?

 

Yes, I think it's important for anybody to try and correct the things they have messed up in their life, regardless of what that is and when that happened. It's part of being a responsible person, because we don't walk in the shoes of other people. So I'd say, yes. That it matters a lot, given that I consider that the right thing to do. Not just here in my case, but I think that goes for everybody, in any situation or scenario.

 

I don't know. I think I wouldn't send it. So you say sorry to your ex and that's it? Your only intention is to make her suffer less, even though you aren't even sure whether she's suffering or not in the first place?

 

See text above. Yes, that would be it. I love the woman, so I certainly wouldn't want her to suffer more. If I know that not hearing from me, would be the best thing, then I wouldn't contact her. But like you said, I don't know if she is or isn't. From my perspective righting a wrong is always a good and responsible thing to do.

 

Also, about her blocking etc or not coming after you. I really don't understand why do people think that they are the ones to come back if there's something to be said or done. What if both of you are just waiting for the other one to show up? It could be that she doesn't want to talk to you ever again, but it also could be that she wants to but is afraid of being rejected, therefore she's waiting, or she blocked as an attempt to move on, even caring about you. There are a hundred possibilities.

 

Yes, and that are the type of games I don't like to play. After our final fallout I wasn't interested in ever talking with her again and had no desire. So I am pretty sure she won't make any attempts, based on me telling her that. The objective isn't to talk with her again, though. The objective would be to apologize for something I did wrong, that may (or may not) still be affecting her.

 

If she's here on LS, I'm sure everyone told her to "get out of it, he's a liar, go NC forever, block on everything". Even if deep inside she wants to talk to you again. My ex, for example, didn't block me on anything. I didn't block her either. Are we contacting each other? No. Do I want to go back to her? Not really. Now just because I'm unblocked, does it means she's waiting for me to appear? Nop!

 

Yes, I am well aware of that probably being the general rule of advice if she would ask for advice on here. I think people generally mean well on this forum, but from reading a lot of the different posts, I do think there is a lot of projection based on own experiences in relationships and advice that's given on rather simplistic assumptions. Not everybody is a self confident autonomous individual or carries zero scars from the past and that will always do the "right" thing. Human are more often than not complex and unique beings. Also, life has its way with people. Things that may be obvious for some, may not be obvious to others. It's what makes life interesting. People can also not always be objective and clear in the way that they describe the problems in their relationship or the ending of that relationship.

 

It's all very relative, you can't really tell what's going on unless you do something about it.

 

This is true. However, in this case, "doing something about it" can be upsetting to an ex of which I am trying to be considerate with my ultimate decision.

 

In all honesty, I would only contact an ex a year after the break up IF I had any intention of having her in my life again, be it as a friend or a second chance as my girlfriend again. A late sorry would make absolutely no sense to me. I would be like "eh, alright, whatever". lol

 

Me contacting her, is not about what I want at this point. I am trying to do the right thing, whether that's contacting her or not contacting her. My OWN intentions are only of secondary importance. I can certainly understand why a late apology would not make sense or matter to some people. To other people it would make sense, however. Some people wait a lifetime for the person that wronged them to apologize. An apology that may never come. For some people that a serious issue, and for others it's not, you know? So these are all things I am trying to weigh in my decision, based on the history or our relationship, the personality and behaviors of my ex, my own judgment, and the advice and insights from people left and right, including here on LS.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Breakupblues

[juniorrocha]

Ah, I get it. Well, it's not something I would do, especially because you already said sorry before. But you'll never know if you never try. You can't predict how she will react, but if you're feeling like sending it, then you should. And see how she will respond to it. At least you're doing your part, apologizing for what you've done, now it's up to her to take it as a good thing or a bad one.

[Breakupblues]

Ah, I get it. Well, it's not something I would do, especially because you already said sorry before. But you'll never know if you never try. You can't predict how she will react, but if you're feeling like sending it, then you should. And see how she will respond to it. At least you're doing your part, apologizing for what you've done, now it's up to her to take it as a good thing or a bad one.

 

Yes I apologized a million times, right after it became an issue and she found out. She just didn't believe me. She didn't believe I loved her either. She couldn't hear it. My telling her these things were cruel in her mind. Perhaps she was in shock or she felt that my actions were not the actions of a person that loved her, who knows. So in her mind, I am perhaps still not sorry for what I did.

 

I am still leaning towards not sending, but with time hopefully I'll grow more confident in my ultimate decision.

[juniorrocha]

In that case, I suppose you've already done everything you could. I understand her side though, I was in a relationship with a girl that use to lie to me quite often and when I found out one more of her lies, we broke up. She went an entire year saying sorry for what she had done, but guess what, she continued to do it so how could I even accept her apologies? So I decided to forgive her for her mistakes, but I'm no longer interested in a relationship with her.

 

I don't know, I think after you break up, nothing matters anymore. You're both on different roads now. I couldn't care less about what my ex has done to me while we were together, simply because I'm not part of it anymore. I suppose your situation is different though; seems like she holds resentment. Now whether she's still living with that or not is something you can't get to know without sending her an e-mail.

 

How long have you guys been NC?

[Breakupblues]

In that case, I suppose you've already done everything you could. I understand her side though, I was in a relationship with a girl that use to lie to me quite often and when I found out one more of her lies, we broke up. She went an entire year saying sorry for what she had done, but guess what, she continued to do it so how could I even accept her apologies? So I decided to forgive her for her mistakes, but I'm no longer interested in a relationship with her.

 

I don't know, I think after you break up, nothing matters anymore. You're both on different roads now. I couldn't care less about what my ex has done to me while we were together, simply because I'm not part of it anymore. I suppose your situation is different though; seems like she holds resentment. Now whether she's still living with that or not is something you can't get to know without sending her an e-mail.

 

How long have you guys been NC?

 

That's exactly how I do not feel. lol. Also, once again, the objective here is not to reconcile. We are passed that station.

 

Yes, I understand her side too, given her specific background where people have not been honest and abusive with her, in the past. I did it, so I have to bear the consequences, no prob. In that same token, I also understand why you broke up with your ex, if that's a hard line for you.

 

However, in my view every situation is different. We can't project our own circumstances and opinions on those of other people and other situations. In human dynamics, the specifics and details tend to be important.

 

I am saying that because not every lie is created equal. Lies come in degrees and tend to have different motives that are important in our judgment of them. More specifically, there are lies to deceive (the very bad ones), and then there are lies that have different objectives (lot of grey area). My 2 lies fall under the second category, at least in my opinion.

 

I wasn't deceptive in a way that I was cheating my ex out of something or denied her of anything. I lied to her to avoid conflict. Conflict that would have been instigated and initiated by her, if I would have told her the truth, given her interpretation of those actions. I was also not lying to my ex more frequently about other things, potentially raising bigger concerns about who I am and my personality. I understand that from her perspective she may not have any way of knowing of course.

 

I used to feel exactly the same way you felt after your breakup. It was never a big issue for me. Once it's over it's over and nothing matters anymore concerning that relationship. That's also a very selfish way of looking at things that we divorce and remove ourselves from. Especially in relationships that involve two or more people, that (all) have vested their resources, energy or emotions into them.

 

As a matter of fact, after this experience I have gone out of my way to reach out to two of my exes, to give them closure/let them know that on my side there isn't any resentment of hard feelings about what led to our breakups. Just to be nice/considerate of the fact that from their perspective the breakup may have been experienced differently than from my own.

 

We don't live in isolation from others. Our actions can have consequences for the people we deal with, and just because we can switch the knob off for ourselves, another person out there who must still confront and deal what's left behind can very much struggle.

 

Yes, concerning my ex, I am just not sure if she was/is able to pick up the pieces and move on smoothly, despite what she may say, and with or without me apologizing. She's super sensitive and her responses to things, let alone crisis, can't and shouldn't be understood in a way that I may understand those of other people. She's been through too much, and from what I suspect deals with way too much mental and psychological issues. I can't apply the same logic and reasoning dealing with her, as I would with other women.

 

As a result and given that uncertainty, it's also still in my own system. Like I said, I did something wrong and there may be somebody I care about still out there suffering or dealing with what I did. I can forgive myself a million times for what I did and have perfectly good explanations, but if the person who actually suffered the harm is still dealing with something that was caused by me, I am still going to feel responsible. "Well that's not my issue anymore and I am focused on myself," is a selfish way of looking at things, in my opinion.

 

We've been NC for more than a year now.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Breakupblues

[juniorrocha]

Breakupblues, you gotta understand that you need to move on with your life. So if that person goes the rest of their lives with resentment because of something you did, you gonna live your entire life in guilt? It's not like you lied to her, then broke up and never apologized for your actions. It seems like you've already done it a lot. SHE will have to deal with it. And no, I wouldn't consider it selfish because you've already apologized, a thousand times. Are you going to spend the rest of your life saying sorry for what you did and seeking her forgiveness? Especially actions that you don't even consider that wrong to start with?

 

By the way, a lie is a lie. It doesn't matters whether you put them into 5 different categories or not; it's still a lie. People deal with lies in different ways and apparently for her it was too much. You can't go your entire life regretting what you did though.

 

So far, considering what I've read about your situation, I think sending her an e-mail would be the best. At least you'll try once again to say you're sorry for what you did. As for how she will see it, you will never know until you do it. Maybe you should make it your last attempt or something. One day this has to stop.

[Breakupblues]

That's exactly my issue. If I was dumped for something silly or for one of the other problems in our relationship, like we were on the verge of anyway, this wouldn't have been a concern. I would have cut my losses and that would have been it.

 

It's exactly the ownership in the failure in the relationship in THIS regard that festers and lingers. Because that's ENTIRELY on me. I apologized during the most emotional time of the breakup. When things were the most volatile and stormy. It was definitely not the period in our relationship where reason and calm were the most prevalent characteristics of our communications.

 

Right, SHE will have to deal with it and in my mind that's not really fair, if she is. I consider the lies awful because they were hurtful to HER. What I think of them objectively, isn't important. If your girlfriend likes you to wear blue pants, but you like white pans, but in order to please her you wear blue pants, then that's all that matters right? This isn't about right and wrong, what I think or she thinks. It's about hurting people you care about, and not wanting them to suffer.

 

For me things are not ever that black and white. Not all killings, to give a very extreme example, are punished to the same extent, either. Some aren't even punished at all. But you're right, that's my own personal opinion and others certainly don't have to agree.

 

I will continue to give it some thought though (send or not send) and then I will decide what to do. Bottom line is that I can't let this linger around in my head, as a remnant.