did you get an NC letter from your AP?

[Lobe]

First, I just wanted to say that I am a BS asking the OW/OM types for insight. I stumbled across LS about a year ago after googling something like "WT* goes on in the OW's head?" I wanted to be angry. I wanted to see inside her head and to know exactly what types of evil slutty home-wrecking thoughts she had in her head. I had demonized her. As a betrayed spouse, I expected (or maybe in my twisted need to be angry at anyone but my husband hoped) to find everyone giving advice how to boil bunnies... but with the exception of a tiny handful of posts, mostly I see very hurt, confused, angry people struggling to come to terms with the situation they're in. Coming in here moved me from "hate" to "pity" to "indifference" and helped "humanize" the OW. Letting go of my anger towards her has allowed me to focus attention and energy where it belonged - on rebuilding the marriage I almost lost. I doubt I am ever going to be OK with extramarital affairs or pat y'all on the bum for doing what you're doing, but reading your stories has helped me heal. I hope those of you debating whether to stay or leave do your own 180 - you deserve better, and so does your AP's spouse and family.

 

So, here is my question, for those who have gotten out of an affair. It's entirely possible that I am way off base on this, but I think if I was the AP, I would totally want an explanation and an apology instead of being ghosted. My WS has never written an NC letter. In the early days, he didn't want to "hurt" the OW and I was pissed he picked her feelings over mine, but agreed that he could give it some time. Every time she tried to contact him, I said, OK, now send one, including about a year after the affair ended and in yet another one of those "moments of weakness" she sent him an entire letter that he should have met with a polite rebuttal, but didn't. I think he's telling himself he's protecting her, when what he is actually doing is trying to prevent coming clean with her the way he had to come clean with me - I fully believe that admitting you're a lying sack of sh*t takes more balls than leaving the AP in the dark.

 

Because we have mutual acquaintances, I know this woman still pines for my husband, won't go to therapy, etc. It has now been several months of silence from her - he has ghosted her, completely - but I am still hellbent that he send an NC letter, first because I fully believe we are one drunken night away from the next haunting from her, second because I feel like I want vindication and lastly because I feel like he owes her an explanation and an apology. I'm not talking about a novel, just a note that says look, I'm sorry I ghosted you and screwed you over. I lied to you about not loving my wife because I wanted this affair, and I lied to and neglected my wife and family because I was selfish and they didn't deserve that. The sexual and emotional feelings we experienced were a result of both of us making poor choices, not fate bringing us together. I'm sad we crossed the line from friendship to sex but for obvious reasons there's no going back. Don't blame my wife and don't blame yourself. I'm in therapy, I hope you are too. Please move on with your life and avoid dating married people. Blah blah blah. (These are actual things my WH has said he wanted to write by the way. Including blah blah blah.)

 

If you were the recipient of an NC letter and it helped bring you closure, what was said in the letter that helped? That hurt? If your MM/MW has ghosted you, what questions would you want answered? Is there anything that would make you feel like you could properly mourn, move on, stop contacting your AP?

[Girlfromcali]

I can't imagine any man writing a letter like that. If I got a letter like that, I would assume his W wrote it.

 

In all honesty, in my case, my MM would never write a NC letter because if there's a possibility he could still get sex from me at some point in the future, he wouldn't want to ruin the chance.

 

He has told me that he's sorry that he hurt me, though.

[Lady Hamilton]

If I got that letter, I'd assume either it was from his wife or he was inviting me back into the fray.

 

If you want to keep her at bay, not engaging her in any way is the only way to go.

 

Open the door to explain NC, you've opened it for a reply. A reply invites another reply, etc etc.

 

Honestly I feel like a letter in this situation is more about you and what you want vs what closure she deserves. Seeing as you think she's one drunken night away from falling back into bed with him, I think you still feel like she's a threat.

 

If you orchestrate a letter to her, you pretty much confirm as much to her.

[Babsinhealing]

After DD my MM texted me before he sent it and gave me a "heads up" she was forcing him to write it. Once he hit "send" he waited until she left the room and texted me back and said- I'm so sorry... looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. The A went underground and is still there today. These NC letters are just one piece of the process. A truly remorseful MM will show it in all his actions, if he is really serious about fixing the M. Sorry but that has been my experience.

[burnt]

I received those types of "goodbye" correspondence many, many, many times from xMM; the emails didn't say the things you wrote so explicitly "sorry for screwing you over" etc. The messages were more along the lines of I feel guilty for what I'm doing to my wife and so we must part forever. Each time, I replied with a peaceful goodbye back, wishing him all the best.

 

Except, the 'forever' didn't last and he broke NC soon enough, with the promise of being friends again. Then he pushed, I fought, and eventually I gave in and back into the affair all over again. And repeat… again and again again.

 

He broke NC many times both by surprise visits and by email; I didn't reply in the last year and a half.

 

To answer your question--the 'goodbye' letters were almost identical every time. I know even if he wrote anything to me now, he has nothing new to add that hasn't been said before.

 

He explicitly told me at one point that I was the antidote for his midlife crisis and dormant marriage; at the end of the affair he told me that his marriage and his connection to his wife is now better than all these years.

FYI, there was no DDay.

 

So, IF I could ask at this point, I suppose my only question would be:

Does he feel any guilt for USING me to fix his marriage and making his wife happier at the cost of destroying my faith.

 

I guess it really boils down to this:

option A: seek MC; pay money for MC; work hard; address the issues in your marriage.

option B: seduce someone pretending to be a friend; for FREE; have fun; revive yourself and reawaken your love for your wife. end affair; restart affair--repeat this cycle for 80 times; OW gets destroyed and attempts suicide--but who cares? OW is done for good. MM lives happily ever after with wife. The end.

 

Option B is much more fun and a lot cheaper for sure.

That's what he chose. Wise man.

[Onlywhenitrains]

The answer is no. I don't want that letter. Never did. Everything that he had to say, he said it by his actions during the affair. He made his choice. We all move on.

 

It may sound harsh, but I'm not bitter for his choice. Nor I blame him solely for the A. Both him and me made poor and foolish choices and share responsibility for it equally. I tend to think that the best part of my affair with MM is that we never had DDay.

 

In the first few days after the break up, I thought at moments that some closure words from him might help. But, those words really wouldn't change anything except another round of back and forth, push and pull with more danger to get sucked back into it. I was so fed up with everything towards the end, especially with the fact I allowed myself to become what I was by entering into it. So, no closure words could make any difference. I'm even more positive about it now that I'm entering the phase where the A fog is lifting.

 

I wanted actions - whatever they were to be. Either REALLY be with me as part of your real life, or let go of me and leave me be.

 

Btw, agree with others - if I were to receive letter you wrote in your original post, never would've believed that eMM wrote it.

[Girlfromcali]

Last time I talked to him, he asked how he could help me. I said he can't do anything to help me because closure has to come from me.

 

I kept trying to get closure from him..it will never happen. I know how he is already. He wants to have his cake and eat it..there's no mystery to that.

 

The honest letter would be something like:

 

"Your emotional outbursts are pretty annoying and if I can't have my cake and eat it too, I really don't have time to deal with this".

[Lobe]

I can't imagine any man writing a letter like that. If I got a letter like that, I would assume his W wrote it.

 

He has told me that he's sorry that he hurt me, though.

 

I'm glad your AP had the balls to apologize for hurting you - I know a lot of MM just discard the OW like yesterday's trash. My WH felt like crap for hurting his OW, even though he knew he wasn't interested in risking his marriage for her. He's told her nothing, not even sorry. It kind of pisses me off that he is so selfish.

 

It wouldn't be "orchestrated" so much a ready-to-serve lol - WH and OW have an "anniversary" coming up next week (first kiss) and she seems to like drinking and creating fake FB profiles to reach out to him/ lash out at me to commemorate such things. First kiss, first make out session, first time they had sex... Hence, why I wonder about having an NC letter ready to send. She's tenacious, I'll give her that.

 

She would know it was him - he wrote her flowery sh*t and poems all the time. (Part of how he got busted - you don't accidentally leave your handwritten love letters in the car, dumbass...). In fact, his would probably be even fancier lol.

 

I read the OW's letter (hubby gave it to me) and I honestly don't know whether to feel sorry for her or not. I don't know if she was being sincere about it or just trying to manipulate him. I'm at the point of apathy - I don't want her to get hit by a train but if she did I'd probably change the channel. But I think she was genuinely in pain, and said she just wished she understood what happened. While snarky angry me last year would have said, exactly what happens when you are a married man's side piece, the other part of me has read the words of enough OW and the lies and lies and lies they've endured, and it makes it difficult to completely dismiss her feeling.

 

I kind of want to lay WH bare in front of her so she can see he was an opportunistic arse who took advantage of her and maybe she will let go of the fantasy. And I've never responded to her notes or messages - I'm sure she won't listen to me tell her my husband isn't all that and a bag of chips - I'm pretty sure I'd just be wasting my breath. I thought maybe an NC letter would maybe help.

 

It's funny - y'all are saying the NC letter is a joke, but the WS is always told to write the NC letter not by the wife but by affair recovery books and therapists. I asked about it in IC and she said just keep ignoring her. In MC, they encouraged him to write one, and encouraged me to make sure he did one up.

 

Am I worried about my WH never ever cheating again? Honestly, right now things are good and my inclination would be to say no, but I dunno - I never thought he would in the first place. Do I worry about him going back to her? Meh. Not really. I just wish she would leave us alone. I hope we don't hear from her again next week. I'm tired of being a threesome lol

[Girlfromcali]

She sounds a bit crazy, but I can understand how it would feel like to be ghosted.

 

It would make me crazy if someone ghosted me. Nothing is worse than ghosting. I actually think it's one of the cruelest thing a person can do to another. I would rather be beaten up. I can deal anything except the unknown.

 

Luckily my MM would never do that nor would he ever lie.

 

He told me last time that he's torn because he wants to be honest, but he thinks I can't take it.

 

However, I can always take the truth. It may hurt like crazy but it's still better than lying...and million times better than ghosting.

 

I think ghosting is emotional abuse.

 

I don't think my MM was genuinely that upset about hurting me. I think he was more annoyed that he couldn't have what he wanted. I really don't know if he feels any empathy towards me. Maybe he did a little bit after I sent him some melodramatic messages about my pain.

 

I don't think they can relate to our pain because they don't feel it. They only feel the detox from affair fog but men don't really put emotionally everything in one basket so to speak so they are different. He probably tried to empathize but I'm not sure if he can really.

[Lobe]

So, IF I could ask at this point, I suppose my only question would be:

Does he feel any guilt for USING me to fix his marriage and making his wife happier at the cost of destroying my faith.

 

...OW gets destroyed and attempts suicide--but who cares? OW is done for good. MM lives happily ever after with wife.

 

How long was it after going NC was it before you stopped feeling suicidal?

 

Me saying fine, go be with her was exactly what caused him to realize that he wasn't going to eat any more cake on my time. And since he started pouring the energy he poured into the affair back into our marriage I would be a liar if I didn't say our marriage is better now than it was right before the affair began. It's not fair, to the BA or the OW. And yet either one of us wod have taken him. Nice prize, right? lol

 

OW offers the cake, repeatedly. I try and be compassionate but then I think Gawd, woman - you need a reality check if you're so desperate that 18 months of silence from your xMM isn't enough to make you move on. She has a public blog and the suicide thoughts she expressed I've always wondered, were those for real, or was she just trying to scare the MM who didn't pick OW when he was finally free to. I don't know what to think except that she was clever enough to plant all their "special dates" in my head. in the game of psychological warfare, she's definitely the winner lol. Perhaps as much as Ive developed something resembling compassion towards her, she's converted to demonizing me because it's easier than hating her xMM

 

I'm so sorry you went through that, and I hope you have found some closure from within yourself.

[Lobe]

After DD my MM texted me before he sent it and gave me a "heads up" she was forcing him to write it. Once he hit "send" he waited until she left the room and texted me back and said- I'm so sorry... looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. The A went underground and is still there today. These NC letters are just one piece of the process. A truly remorseful MM will show it in all his actions, if he is really serious about fixing the M. Sorry but that has been my experience.

 

Fortunately my WH isn't bright enough to take it underground... lol

 

I'm curious if you continue the A because you're waiting for him or because you're happy having no commitment? My BFF was in an affair for months with her xMM and she says the only thing greater than the sex was her freedom...

[AlwaysGrowing]

Lobe

 

The NC letter you propose has way too many words in it. If the unwanted contact continues, a simple...do not contact me through any means again, is sufficient. There is no reason the explain anything beyond that, because she won't believe it.

 

Keep it short, so there is nothing to argue with or respond to.

[imperfectangel]

With all respect you seem to be putting an awful lot of blame for your husbands affair onto his ow. I find a lot of your posts extremely insulting. The reason he isn't sending a nc letter is because when thing a die down at home he'll be going right back to her for more cake. Because that's what he wants. Both.

[Moxie Lady]

With all respect you seem to be putting an awful lot of blame for your husbands affair onto his ow. I find a lot of your posts extremely insulting. The reason he isn't sending a nc letter is because when thing a die down at home he'll be going right back to her for more cake. Because that's what he wants. Both.

 

Saying this gently Ms. Lobe, but I agree with the above. If your H was truely repulsed by his exOW he would have no problem telling her to back off and never contact you or him again. The fact that he doesnt is telling. My exH pulled this stunt too, even though he "never wanted to see her again" when in reality he didnt want to close that door for the future. Be very careful about believing him, he has proven himself to be a liar and cheater.

[seren]

With all respect you seem to be putting an awful lot of blame for your husbands affair onto his ow. I find a lot of your posts extremely insulting. The reason he isn't sending a nc letter is because when thing a die down at home he'll be going right back to her for more cake. Because that's what he wants. Both.

 

My husband 'ghosted' the OW simply because he was a classic conflict avoider, not just because he wanted to go back after things had died down at home, otherwise he just wouldn't have told me about the A. Not all A's are just for sex and not all cheaters cheat again. Some people face problems head on and other's choose to ignore them and hope they go away.

 

My lovely friend took her own life after a 15 yr affair when he ghosted her, no reply to her letters, text messages and this after future faking on a grand scale and an imaginary dying wife on his part. A NC letter would have given her closure, but he wouldn't even do that, I know, I asked him if he would at least explain why and even though he knew how desperately sad she was and knowing all that he had promised. His answer was that he didn't want to lose his wife and life, he was afraid that if Abi had a letter, she would think he wanted to start up. Nothing was further from his mind. He didn't even have the balls to go to her funeral or acknowledge her death.

 

I asked my H to write a closure letter, nothing nasty, just that it was over, he just wanted it all to go away and thought ignoring her would be the best way. 6 years later, she was still making hang up calls, tracking us through house moves through her job that gave her access to phone numbers even listed one's. I had helped her, we had spoken, I felt no animosity, just firstly sympathy and then indifference. But, it was ultimately my H's choice and while I could feel compassion, he did not, in a weird way he blamed her for contributing to my hurt, I know, makes no logical sense, but it is what it was.

 

I have never been an OW, but if I was led to believe in a future that was based on fakery and if I had loved and thought myself loved back, then I would need, at the very least an explanation of why, to not know it, IMHO, very cruel and shows such lack of respect. But I suppose only an OW or OM can truly answer that, we all have such different experiences with some commonality.

[Lady Hamilton]

If she's a hassle now and your NC, then imagine how she will ramp up when NC is broken so that he can tell her he's NC and spill his guts. I mean, do you honestly think she'd get such a letter and say "well that makes perfect sense!" and then never reach out again?

 

Of course not. She'll want to reply, then she'll want to make sure he reads it, then she will have a chance to get back in his head.

 

You don't have to fight in every battle you're invited to, and in this case, I'd just leave it. If you want to focus on you and him and the marriage, you can't spend time and energy focusing on how to make her feel better. Nothing you say will do that for her and you only risk undoing what you've done so far to move on.

 

I'm sure she's hurt, but she also knows the score. If he stopped calling and sees you're celebrating milestones with him, she knows it's over and why. That's all she really needs.

[Lobe]

My husband 'ghosted' the OW simply because he was a classic conflict avoider, not just because he wanted to go back after things had died down at home, otherwise he just wouldn't have told me about the A. Not all A's are just for sex and not all cheaters cheat again. Some people face problems head on and other's choose to ignore them and hope they go away.

 

This is my WH. I don't think I've blamed the OW at all. I think I have more compassion and respect for OW than my WH. He isn't leaving the door open - he's running as far away and as fast as he can.

 

I don't know how to quote multiple people yet, but I want to respond about being "insulting." I know I'm the BS and I'm supposed to feel adversarial, but I know my husband screwed her over, too. I'm not sure how saying my husband was a selfish prick and hurt everyone including his OW is insulting - I'm sorry if anyone is reading it that way because it's certainly not my intent.

 

The first month or so, every time she contacted him (usually asking why they can't "just talk") he only said please stop contacting me. No more, no less. Cell number blocked, social media blocked, etc. but she got a different cell, made fake email accounts, created fake FB profiles, dropped notes on his desk or on his windshield at work. The last time he responded to OW, he simply said I've moved on please go get counseling and stopped replying at all. We had silence, then she started the anniversaries. Ghosted her right through 6 months of pleading. "Remember this day last year I walked out of the bathroom, you brushed the hair from my face, and kissed me?" "We could just go for coffee." "Why won't you answer me?" Why can't we talk, why can't I see you, why why why. The notes I get are things like, "We both know things were wrong in your marriage." (I should point out that my husband and I were fully aware that our marriage was floundering and had discussed it at length before the A happened, so this isn't really a revelation...)

 

As much as I find her persistence annoying, I'm a big enough girl to see this woman needs help. They were only together for ~6 months, with the first kiss being in June, and after enjoying a reprieve not hearing from her since his birthday a couple months ago (she sent him a card) it's only a week until the "anniversaries" will start again. I'm hoping the love notes, insults and suicide threats are done.

 

And before it gets asked... None of her stuff is signed, the accounts are temporary or fake (betterpussythanyou@hotmail and Likyu Kok kind of stuff), the cell numbers are blocked, so the cops can't even give him a peace bond. He looks at me with shame for bringing this into our lives. He says exactly what made her seem attractive in the first place is what makes him feel "stupid" now. She seems unstable, no? This is not normal behaviour for a 40-something. If she was my daughter I would want to shake her like a ragdoll and pray it knocked some sense into her.

 

You know, the more I think about this, the more I wonder if maybe it's not WH she's trying to get to, it's me lol. I already know she hates me. Maybe it's just easier that way for her. I really can't say I'd know her thoughts - I've not been the OW, hence, why I'm here asking advice (the irony...) Regardless. As much as I would love to see my husband squirm and own up to her for her actions, what I am hearing from y'all is, if she starts sending anniversary notes again next week don't encourage WH to send an NC letter, just continue practicing NC, both of us.

 

Thank you for the insight. i will just cross these little fingers of mine and hope I get to enjoy the silence through the rest of 2016.

[imperfectangel]

I understand you more now lobe, apologies for any confusion.

 

I didn't realise he has told her not to contact him and that he's moved on I just thought he had full on ghosted her. My MM has done this a few times but has always come back. Most MM do appear again unfortunately

 

In that case I would carry on ignoring her. My MM said something to me that if I reply to him (even to tell him where to go) it shows I'm still interested. Not every processes things the same I guess

[privategal]

He hasnt sent letter because he doesnt want to hurt her or you. One sentence "please stop contact" WHEN she writes.

Im so sorry Lobe...know its haunting you.

My xeap didnt stop contact after dday at all for months he wrote me all day from work.

Dday doesnt end A per se.

He might truly be done and taking the cowards route. Trust me, she knows he is a liar.

So if he writes back...let it be breif and to the point.

[Whoknew30]

Your husband is a coward. Which would make me weary if I was you, being a coward is part of personal trait that many MM that have that cheat. I'm both a WS & BS & men & women cheat for complete different reasons. I cheated bc I was over my marriage (at the time) & was using it as an exit strategy, my H cheated bc he was a coward emotionally & couldn't handle me being sick. I sat down with my OM to break it off, he confronted the OW like a complete jerk, to the point that it grossed me out. When I asked him why he did this, he said "I thought that's what you wanted"...inhink that your H not doing what you'd like him to do, is wrong.

He's still thinking about himself. He can't do it bc he knows all the lies he told her & doesn't want to confront it. I think what you want makes complete sense & would help to show that cowardly behavior that helped get him into an affair is changing.

[Girlfromcali]

Your husband is not "ghosting" her. He already told her to leave him alone. If a married man tells me to leave him alone, he doesn't need any more explanation. I mean, c'mon, what is he supposed to say?

 

She seems like a nut.

[elaine567]

This is not really about the OW or her feelings or closure,

This is about Lobe trying to put up a wall between the husband and the OW, so that the OW gets the message and leaves him alone.

 

Of course it sounds like a letter a BW would write because the MM would rarely if ever say such things, he probably spent the whole affair saying just about the exact opposite and may have meant it too at the time, so maybe the whole affair was not a lie...

He has a wife he feels he needs to reconcile with, so I am sure that colours everything he now says.

 

If the husband had decided to write such a closure letter of his own volition, then that would be fine, he knows what he said during the affair, what he promised, and that may be indeed be effective in pushing the OW away, as he would be speaking in the language of the affair.

This concocted NC letter sounds fake and contrived to me, and I guess will sound the same to any OW reading it.

Sorry, Lobe.

[waterwoman]

 

If the husband had decided to write such a closure letter of his own volition, then that would be fine, he knows what he said during the affair, what he promised, and that may be indeed be effective in pushing the OW away, as he would be speaking in the language of the affair.

This concocted NC letter sounds fake and contrived to me, and I guess will sound the same to any OW reading it.

.

 

Agreed. Let it lie. Your h has been pretty plain in his previous responses. She is choosing to cause herself more pain in her continued approaches to your h. In comparison the hassle she is causing you is minimal. She needs to come to a decision to stop on her own. Nothing you or your h can do will stop her in fact any contact will feed the fire.

 

Like you I really wanted h to send OW an NC letter but he wouldnt. it was done and dusted for him when he spoke to her on dday. i realised it was entirely for my own comfort that I wanted it sent and that, rather than settling any hash she might have made, it would have stirred things up. NC is after all NC. In the end h wrote the letter and left it up to me to decide to send it. I didn't. I kept it. It was a letter recommitting himself to me and expressing his regrets over the affair. It might have been addressed to her but it was really meant for me. Why would I send her a love letter h wrote for me?

 

Let it go.

[elaine567]

The big problem with conflict avoidant people is that they WILL try to avoid conflict at every turn.

They tend therefore to tell one party what THEY want to hear and the other party what THEY want to hear too, in a bid to keep the peace.

 

In cheating, there is also trickle truthing involved as they duck and dive to avoid conflict and upset, but at what point do you decide "the real truth" has been uncovered?

 

 

1. OK we were just friends, I hugged her once when she was crying.
   
2. OK we kissed once.
   
3. OK we took it physical but only the once, I was drunk.
   
4. OK it may have been more than once but less then 5x
   
5. OK, it was going on for 3 months, once a week
   
6. OK I have known her for 2 years, but it meant nothing...
   
7. OK, I loved her.
   

 

How do you know that when you left it at stage 3 - "we only did it the once I was drunk", he was not going to trickle truth till he got to the point he said he loved her at trickle truth stage 7?

 

In a reconciliation after a cheating event with such a person, it then makes it very difficult for the BW to find out the real truth and to believe what he says, if he tells you he no longer has contact with the OW.

How can you then tell that once the "final" NC letter is sent, he is not still in contact with her as he doesn't really want to stir anything up and disappoint her.

How can you tell that he is not just sending the letter so that he doesn't disappoint or upset you, as opposed to trying to get rid of her once and for all?

[imsosad]

Lobe,I'm sorry for what you are going through. It has got to be heartbreaking.

May I suggest you are trying to gain control of a situation which made you feel helpless?

Your WH has to deal with the OW, you can't do it for him. She is not your problem. It seems she knows all there is to know. No letter needed.

The responsibilty should lay squarely on your H to maintain NC. Dont do this for him. It is his time to make things up to you .

I am a WS myself, if it makes a difference.