did you get an NC letter from your AP?

[Lobe]

This is not really about the OW or her feelings or closure,

This is about Lobe trying to put up a wall between the husband and the OW, so that the OW gets the message and leaves him alone.

 

Of course it sounds like a letter a BW would write because the MM would rarely if ever say such things, he probably spent the whole affair saying just about the exact opposite and may have meant it too at the time, so maybe the whole affair was not a lie...

He has a wife he feels he needs to reconcile with, so I am sure that colours everything he now says.

 

If the husband had decided to write such a closure letter of his own volition, then that would be fine, he knows what he said during the affair, what he promised, and that may be indeed be effective in pushing the OW away, as he would be speaking in the language of the affair.

This concocted NC letter sounds fake and contrived to me, and I guess will sound the same to any OW reading it.

Sorry, Lobe.

 

I didn't recognize my own husband in the words he wrote her. It was actually freaky. He had spent the months leading up to the affair in full on midlife crisis mode - a simple guy who suddenly takes up yoga, goes vegan, and consults his horoscope. When I found the letter if I didn't know his handwriting so well, I swear I'd never have known it was him.

 

The first thing I said in IC was, I know he will be back - he's going through a phase. This is a guy I've been with for over a decade, known for two - he likes hunting and quadding and can barely refrain from eye-rolling when someone talks about their numerology chart. He started sounding like he was taking the

videos seriously. And I let him go, encouraged him to tryout being that guy, because I didn't see the harm in him seeing if he could learn to love bran buds and Lulu Lemon.

 

If anyone here wants to tell me they don't have an xBF/xGF they look back and and say, "What was I thinking?" I'm going to say you're either really lucky or your turn is coming lol Do I think his feelings for her were real? Absolutely. Were my feelings for my 1st serious boyfriend real? At the time, yes. Did I ever really love my first husband? Sure, because I was 20 and naive enough to believe that marrying him would make him treat me better. But I loved him. At the time. Would I be helpless against falling into bed with my exes now simply because once upon a time I had feelings for them? No, not any more than I suspect my husband would be helpless over his affair partner, who once looked like an emotionally frail woman with a history of men who treated her badly... who now acts like a junior high psycho.

 

I agree that this is about building a barrier between my husband and OW, but I disagree that negates it being about the OW and her "closure." She believes she knows the "real" him but it was more like he was in some weird cult that he finally broke free from. When I found out about his AP, I had expected some tall, lithe, stylish yogi type who only ate raw organic... she was a voluptuous meat-eating woman with bad teeth whose favourite book according to her FB profile was 50 shades...

 

He feels guilt and shame, he doesn't want to hurt her - all very "noble" except she thinks he's going to wake up from what... "marriage fog?" And I think (the collective) you are probably right - there is probably nothing my husband could say or do to adequately explain the complexity of our reconciliation and his mid-life crisis that would a) make her feel better or b) convince her that he's not the guy she wants to believe he is. Not really the answer I was hoping for but I appreciate your candor.

 

Affairs are just so messy. ~insert exasperated sigh here~

Edited June 7, 2016 by Lobe
Typos...

[AlwaysGrowing]

I disagree with those that believe the FOW should be allowed to continue breaking NC indefinitely. The FOW said her piece numerous times, to your husband and even to yourself. Your husbands simple responses should have put an end to it.

 

You have a few options available to you. Continue with no responses, your husband has stated his wishes often, no need to state it again. Have a lawyer write up a cease and desist letter, although it has no legal teeth, it does put the other party on legal notice.

[immokk]

Hi Lobe,

I've been reading this thread with interest and I think you've managed to come to a (sort of) resolution from the excellent advice of everyone on here.

 

I was the OW until incredibly recently and I'd like to add a few comments, if you don't mind?

 

- I ended the relationship with the MM in my case. I do not want an NC letter, despite my urges to contact him I'm fighting them myself. I think an NC would be contact, as far as I was concerned and I would find it damaging.

 

- I am sorry that you are so hurt. I can completely understand it. You say you think she hates you and in your case, this might be true, but in my case I don't hate the BS. I am indifferent. I don't care about her. Which is harsh but I knew the MM before our relationship and thus know the issues he had long ago before there was even any indication of anything developing between us. I think my point here is that, you think she hates you. I would suggest that if she does it is wholly based on what your WH said to her.

 

- Further to the above point I am recognising that I was vulnerable when my A began. I would gently say that it sounds as though she is too... mentally, emotionally, or whatever. I am struggling now but I would like to think that in 18 months I might have a found a grip on myself. It appears to me that she has some problems and I think the best course is to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

I think, finally, it's actually admirable, to me, that you have forgiven your WH and also, that you have taken it upon yourself to try to understand these situations from the opposite perspective.

 

I wish you luck because, despite being the OW, I don't think I could forgive a WH. Particularly having been on the other side of it. The pain it causes everyone and the lies, the deception... I think once broken, the trust would be gone for me.

 

By the same token, I don't believe the 'once a cheater always a cheater'. I actually believe that all circumstances are different. Lots of MM leave their BS for the OW (and MW etc) because it was a genuine feeling, just as some will always just take sex etc whenever it's offered and mostly because life and emotion just gets the better of us.

 

So good luck to you.

[Lobe]

Have a lawyer write up a cease and desist letter, although it has no legal teeth, it does put the other party on legal notice.

 

I thought this route would be unnecessarily cold and cruel, but I think you're right.

[Lobe]

Lobe,I'm sorry for what you are going through. It has got to be heartbreaking.

May I suggest you are trying to gain control of a situation which made you feel helpless?

Your WH has to deal with the OW, you can't do it for him. She is not your problem. It seems she knows all there is to know. No letter needed.

The responsibilty should lay squarely on your H to maintain NC. Dont do this for him. It is his time to make things up to you .

I am a WS myself, if it makes a difference.

 

Being harassed and stalked by a bunny boiler? Yeah, it makes me feel like the situation is out of my control. LOL ~twitchy eyes held open by toothpicks go here~

[Lobe]

Hi Lobe,

I've been reading this thread with interest and I think you've managed to come to a (sort of) resolution from the excellent advice of everyone on here.

 

I was the OW until incredibly recently and I'd like to add a few comments, if you don't mind?

 

Didn't mind at all. Thank you.

 

I'm sorry for your break-up - how long was your relationship?

 

I hope you are able to maintain NC and find someone who is available to be with you exclusively. I'm a huge therapy advocate - if you think you're getting close to 18 months of still not being over it, I suggest you go lol. <3

[immokk]

Didn't mind at all. Thank you.

 

I'm sorry for your break-up - how long was your relationship?

 

I hope you are able to maintain NC and find someone who is available to be with you exclusively. I'm a huge therapy advocate - if you think you're getting close to 18 months of still not being over it, I suggest you go lol. <3

 

Haha, can't disagree with that. I imagine, providing we stick to NC, I'll be fine soon enough.

 

I understand the anger and betrayal you must have felt (still feel) but I think you have recognised, even though you didn't need to, that not everything is black and white. We don't all (or even most) set out to ruin anyone's life or home.

 

He cried when I ended it. So did I. A lot of tears. The following day, before NC, there was a lot of coldness on his part. I hadn't wanted to coldness, just the understanding that it had to end. It couldn't go on forever.

 

He was afraid. Of losing me or his wife, I've still no idea. But in the end, it was too much.

 

Our relationship was PA just over 1 year, EA 18 months (Around).

 

Friends? 5 years. Worst part.

[Lobe]

The big problem with conflict avoidant people is that they WILL try to avoid conflict at every turn.

 

How can you tell that he is not just sending the letter so that he doesn't disappoint or upset you, as opposed to trying to get rid of her once and for all?

 

Bit of a paradox there, I know. I believe in this case, the conflict avoidance isn't about making me happy by saying something I want to hear, it's about him not having to say something he doesn't want to say.

 

Really, his conflict avoidance was a big part of what went wrong in our marriage because he never said anything, never disagreed with or fought with me, rarely gave an opinion... He wouldn't even tell me "no" when I told him I wanted to buy a metal Beyonce chicken for our yard. He thought he was making me happy by blindly supporting me, whereas I just thought he actually supported me. He future faked with her, but I guess we'll never know if was "fake" because a) he didn't have the balls to tell OW I'm not actually planning on leaving my wife for you or b) because he knew he would never have the balls to ask me for a divorce.

 

At any rate. I'm not going to convince anyone here they should believe he is NC, because since I am the one who got burnt and still has trust issues, I am the one still checking his phone, remotely logging his internet history (he watches a lot of National Geographic videos and reads a lot of shoe blogs - what's that all about?), and getting the sexts and phone calls that only ever stopped during the affair. What's important is not whether anyone else believes him, but if *I* do. And I do.

[Lobe]

Friends? 5 years. Worst part.

 

I'm super glad that WH's AP was someone that we only knew remotely, and not someone inner circle, but every once in a while our extended circle of friends who don't know what happened will invite her along or bring her up in conversation. We have only run into her once, and we managed to avoid an actual meeting because my WH recognized her vehicle in the parking lot (he should - they had sex in it enough times lol) Will you have to run into him again? I hope not.

 

Stay strong, sistah. NC, NC, NC...

[OneLov]

Your husband is not "ghosting" her. He already told her to leave him alone.

 

I agree. This is not "ghosting." Unlike a lot of the people on this forum, she objectively has an adequate amount of information necessary to find closure in the situation.

 

This is not really about the OW or her feelings or closure,

This is about Lobe trying to put up a wall between the husband and the OW, so that the OW gets the message and leaves him alone.

 

 

If the husband had decided to write such a closure letter of his own volition, then that would be fine, he knows what he said during the affair, what he promised, and that may be indeed be effective in pushing the OW away, as he would be speaking in the language of the affair. This concocted NC letter sounds fake and contrived to me, and I guess will sound the same to any OW reading it.

 

^^^^^This. Even if he actually wrote the letter, she will know who authored it. The random letter sent to her will surely create more ambiguity in the situation. This will likely open any wounds that may have begun to heal. If anything, this letter would do all of you more harm than good.

 

I didn't recognize my own husband in the words he wrote her. It was actually freaky. He had spent the months leading up to the affair in full on midlife crisis mode - a simple guy who suddenly takes up yoga, goes vegan, and consults his horoscope. When I found the letter if I didn't know his handwriting so well, I swear I'd never have known it was him.

 

The first thing I said in IC was, I know he will be back - he's going through a phase. This is a guy I've been with for over a decade, known for two - he likes hunting and quadding and can barely refrain from eye-rolling when someone talks about their numerology chart. He started sounding like he was taking the

videos seriously. And I let him go, encouraged him to tryout being that guy, because I didn't see the harm in him seeing if he could learn to love bran buds and Lulu Lemon.

 

If anyone here wants to tell me they don't have an xBF/xGF they look back and and say, "What was I thinking?" I'm going to say you're either really lucky or your turn is coming lol Do I think his feelings for her were real? Absolutely. Were my feelings for my 1st serious boyfriend real? At the time, yes. Did I ever really love my first husband? Sure, because I was 20 and naive enough to believe that marrying him would make him treat me better. But I loved him. At the time. Would I be helpless against falling into bed with my exes now simply because once upon a time I had feelings for them? No, not any more than I suspect my husband would be helpless over his affair partner, who once looked like an emotionally frail woman with a history of men who treated her badly... who now acts like a junior high psycho.

 

I agree that this is about building a barrier between my husband and OW, but I disagree that negates it being about the OW and her "closure." She believes she knows the "real" him but it was more like he was in some weird cult that he finally broke free from. When I found out about his AP, I had expected some tall, lithe, stylish yogi type who only ate raw organic... she was a voluptuous meat-eating woman with bad teeth whose favourite book according to her FB profile was 50 shades...

 

He feels guilt and shame, he doesn't want to hurt her - all very "noble" except she thinks he's going to wake up from what... "marriage fog?" And I think (the collective) you are probably right - there is probably nothing my husband could say or do to adequately explain the complexity of our reconciliation and his mid-life crisis that would a) make her feel better or b) convince her that he's not the guy she wants to believe he is. Not really the answer I was hoping for but I appreciate your candor.

 

Affairs are just so messy. ~insert exasperated sigh here~

 

I respectfully disagree, I personally believe this is about you finding closure. But it is perfectly understandable; you definitely need it to heal yourself. I think this is where you can relate to the OW/M.

 

I can sense the bewilderment from your post. Who is this guy? Just like the OW/M, you are probably asking yourself, "how can he write all those sweet nothings and then, without even a batting an eye, discard her like a piece of trash?" How can someone you thought you knew like a book, do something that you would never expect? Everything you thought you understood about human behavior--gone. This is rough stuff.

 

This situation sounds like one of Type II Ambiguous Loss. A person who is still physically present but mentally gone. What makes this even more difficult is there is hope that he will return. This is why you are having difficulty healing. Objectively, you do not have the answers you need to find closure.

 

Complicated grief is just how it sounds, rather complicated. I would continue with IC and hopefully your therapist can help you heal. I wish you the best.

 

The big problem with conflict avoidant people is that they WILL try to avoid conflict at every turn.

 

How can you tell that he is not just sending the letter so that he doesn't disappoint or upset you, as opposed to trying to get rid of her once and for all?

 

^^^^This is why I say it is about your healing and not hers.

[Whoknew30]

Do you know what your H was saying to her? I ask bc I can't help but notice, a lot of BW say the OW is a bunny boiler but sometimes they have the same behavior as the BW. You said you knew your H would be back, I know marriage is completely different than an A but you said is as you were waiting kind of like you already knew you'd take him back. Now me personally, can forgive an affair bc I was raised with it & I didn't get involved with the OW (besides talking to her once to hear both sides) I didn't want to know if she was contacting him bc it was his problem but if he was lying to her & giving her false hope, how could I look down on her when I just as easily let him back? That's just how I looked at it & if he had left me for her would I have continued to want to know all the why's too? I know I'm the wife but when someone loves someone right or wrong & has planned a future & the WS is going along with it (especially if this went on for awhile) who wouldn't want an extensive break up conversation?

 

Most of the time a BW & OW really aren't that different, they both fell in love with the same lying man & how would the BW react if the H had really left? Would they then be the bunny boiler? I've seen ex wives behave that way but I understand. It all comes down to how much a liar the WH was to the OW. I'm not defending the OW, just saying (especially when it's the man that cheated) how quick it's she's "crazy" & a "bunny boiler" when no one was there to hear all the things the WH was saying & how long he was sayin them.There never "crazy" when they're having sex with them & future faking. I don't care what the situation, most women lose when jerked over...it's another consequence for your H.

[immokk]

I'm super glad that WH's AP was someone that we only knew remotely, and not someone inner circle, but every once in a while our extended circle of friends who don't know what happened will invite her along or bring her up in conversation. We have only run into her once, and we managed to avoid an actual meeting because my WH recognized her vehicle in the parking lot (he should - they had sex in it enough times lol) Will you have to run into him again? I hope not.

 

Stay strong, sistah. NC, NC, NC...

 

Fortunately not.

 

I don't actually know his wife. I have known him for 5 years. He has a very limited circle of friends. It was one that decreased when he met his wife because, as many men do (my ex too) they move away from their friends and into the wife's circle. So, when things were hard for him he didn't reach out to anyone. Frankly, not even me until we'd been friends for a while and even then it was sporadic tid bits.

 

There's a thread on here, just below yours, of mine (3 days NC) where in my most recent post I detail some of the things.

 

But I do that because it's better than thinking about him. Right now, I'm telling myself that he manipulated me when I was incredibly vulnerable. I don't want to believe that of him but I'm trying to make myself.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Do you know what your H was saying to her? I ask bc I can't help but notice, a lot of BW say the OW is a bunny boiler but sometimes they have the same behavior as the BW. You said you knew your H would be back, I know marriage is completely different than an A but you said is as you were waiting kind of like you already knew you'd take him back. Now me personally, can forgive an affair bc I was raised with it & I didn't get involved with the OW (besides talking to her once to hear both sides) I didn't want to know if she was contacting him bc it was his problem but if he was lying to her & giving her false hope, how could I look down on her when I just as easily let him back? That's just how I looked at it & if he had left me for her would I have continued to want to know all the why's too? I know I'm the wife but when someone loves someone right or wrong & has planned a future & the WS is going along with it (especially if this went on for awhile) who wouldn't want an extensive break up conversation?

 

Most of the time a BW & OW really aren't that different, they both fell in love with the same lying man & how would the BW react if the H had really left? Would they then be the bunny boiler? I've seen ex wives behave that way but I understand. It all comes down to how much a liar the WH was to the OW. I'm not defending the OW, just saying (especially when it's the man that cheated) how quick it's she's "crazy" & a "bunny boiler" when no one was there to hear all the things the WH was saying & how long he was sayin them.There never "crazy" when they're having sex with them & future faking. I don't care what the situation, most women lose when jerked over...it's another consequence for your H.

 

 

How many times or for how long does a FWS owe explanations for? Who gets to define "extensive"?

 

There were people in my life, that at first seemed "normal", until they showed a side/s that weren't, does it now mean that I do not have the choice to remove them from my life because once upon a time I thought they were okay?

 

I do agree that there needs to be an "over" conversation of some type through some means, however, either party has the right to limit it to one.

[Whoknew30]

How many times or for how long does a FWS owe explanations for? Who gets to define "extensive"?

 

There were people in my life, that at first seemed "normal", until they showed a side/s that weren't, does it now mean that I do not have the choice to remove them from my life because once upon a time I thought they were okay?

 

I do agree that there needs to be an "over" conversation of some type through some means, however, either party has the right to limit it to one.

 

To just say "don't contact me again" if one was future faking for a period of time, is not truly facing your consequence. I went face to face with my OM, even in a wrong situation there's respect. I never really even future faked, I was honest that even if I got divorced, he probably wouldn't be who I ended up with but part of my consequence was facing him as well as my husband.

 

If you continued to have sex with someone & get them emotionally involved with you, you owe them at least a straight heart to heart & if you don't give it to them, you have someone in shock, disbelief & or not in the right state of mind. Because he is a coward that has no respect for anyone, he's putting himself & his wife in this position...all he has to say to the OW...is I'm a piece of **** that lied to you this whole time & used you for sex...that's who I truly am. Bet you she'd stop after that conversation, bc then there isn't any unanswered questions.

 

Right now she just thinks it's his wife making him do the NC bc he hasn't told her different. & you know WH demonize the wife. I told my H, if she continues to contact you, it's because you haven't been a 100% honest.

[Lady Hamilton]

all he has to say to the OW...is I'm a piece of **** that lied to you this whole time & used you for sex...that's who I truly am. Bet you she'd stop after that conversation, bc then there isn't any unanswered questions.

 

There isn't an OW who'd buy that or let that go.

 

Best case you'd get the "you're just saying that to drive me away, we both knew what we had together" and she's think it's more lies told to save his butt in front of his wife.

 

Worst case is she goes to being in mourning to in scorning and now she's out for revenge. And I'm not sure how not talking to her is worse than saying "I used you for sex" in terms of closure. That just seems like the breaking of NC to land a low blow on the OW, not closure.

 

I agree with the previous poster... I don't think this is so much about giving OW closure but reasserting dominance. A last lick to put her in her place. And really, I don't think you can expect to send such a message and expect she'll go away.

 

Be NC or don't be NC. Don't say you're NC, make plans to break NC, then declare NC again after you get your last word. Then she'll want to give her last word, and that may bring some uncomfortable truths that just make a mess of things.

[Girlfromcali]

I wouldn't contact anyone who sends messages from mypussybetterthanyour@hotmail addresses. He already told her to leave him alone. He is MARRIED, he doesn't need to explain anything to her.

 

I wish my MM had told me to leave him alone. The only reason they ghost is if the OW becomes a problem. But yes, they lie and future fake and love bomb to get what they want. Then the OW is left all confused...maybe it's just a lesson she needs to learn like the rest of us. I mean, do they ever really give closure? No they don't. You have to do it yourself. The closure doesn't come from the MM.

[wmacbride]

Op,

I really believe that it's incredibly cruel for someone to just disappear without any explanation as to why. While the explanation my not heal all of an ow/om man's pain, at least it can act as a starting point.

 

Also, there are some ow who won't accept that the a is over, and there are w few who fixate on the person who they see as being the source for their pain, that being the bs.

 

The woman my husband got involved with was like that. She is a serial ow, and it's pretty obvious that she is a disordered person. I became the subject of several years of her calls, messages, emails, letters, drive by's, stalking and harassment. We finally ended up having to get the authorities involved ( and this was even after she'd had some affairs with other mm).

 

If you and your H have done your due diligence by writing no contact letters that are clear and concise, leaving no opening for the A to begin or hope in her heart that it will, if you have let her know that any further contact is not wanted, and if she refuses to comply, then, depending on the level of aggravation you feel at her post A actions, I would seek legal help. One caveat is that before you do, make absolutely sure that your H has been clear with her that he is not longer interested in contact with her and that he has not initiated contact with her in any way, except to deliver a NC message. no meetings for coffee to talk, no texts to see how she is doing, nothing. If he does those things, it just reignites the flame in her heart and keeps her thinking he still wants to be with her, and if not for you being in the way, he would be.

Edited June 7, 2016 by wmacbride

[Girlfromcali]

Any kind of letter that would actually be helpful would very obviously be "influenced" by the W, and the OW would see it.

[Lobe]

Trust me - I've got the message loud and clear. No NC letter and, if there's a new set of anniversary notices from her, we go with the cease and desist letter. I can't help but feel very patronized that therapists/experts advocate for the NC letter so vehemently - do they not know that some BS's communicate with AP's on the internet and sort this sh*t out? Hearing what the response would be, I don't know why any therapist would say "it's good for the AP to have closure as well as the wife through the NC letter. I have half a mind to write my own damned relationship book. It's one page. One chapter. It says: stay single.

 

Do you know what your H was saying to her? I ask bc I can't help but notice, a lot of BW say the OW is a bunny boiler but sometimes they have the same behavior as the BW. You said you knew your H would be back, I know marriage is completely different than an A but you said is as you were waiting kind of like you already knew you'd take him back. Now me personally, can forgive an affair bc I was raised with it & I didn't get involved with the OW (besides talking to her once to hear both sides) I didn't want to know if she was contacting him bc it was his problem but if he was lying to her & giving her false hope, how could I look down on her when I just as easily let him back? That's just how I looked at it & if he had left me for her would I have continued to want to know all the why's too? I know I'm the wife but when someone loves someone right or wrong & has planned a future & the WS is going along with it (especially if this went on for awhile) who wouldn't want an extensive break up conversation?

 

Most of the time a BW & OW really aren't that different, they both fell in love with the same lying man & how would the BW react if the H had really left? Would they then be the bunny boiler? I've seen ex wives behave that way but I understand. It all comes down to how much a liar the WH was to the OW. I'm not defending the OW, just saying (especially when it's the man that cheated) how quick it's she's "crazy" & a "bunny boiler" when no one was there to hear all the things the WH was saying & how long he was sayin them.There never "crazy" when they're having sex with them & future faking. I don't care what the situation, most women lose when jerked over...it's another consequence for your H.

 

I think where "bunny boiler" comes in is that her behaviour since NC started over a year ago has been not only odd but disturbing. Making fake email accounts and saying things like she's going to kill herself accompanied by weird quotes that look like some poor jr high kid who failed spelling made them on a meme generator, creating FB profiles and sending me important dates to remember on my business page - that's effed up... It's been a couple of months since WH's birthday card from her; the next time I suspect she will be in touch if we're going to go for a second round of us celebrating anniversaries together will be next week on the anniversary of their first kiss, just like last year. I'm just bracing for it. (I'd be a liar if dates aren't a "thing" for me so I totally understand her fixation, I just wish she would get help and do it on her own.)

 

Around the time suspicious were running high and I was being gaslighted by my WH, I started talking to a friend whose husband had left her 5 years earlier for the OW, and she had taken him back after a break of about 6 months. She was the only person I trusted enough a) not to blab everywhere and b) who had knowledge of these sorts of things first hand. My WH celebrated midlife by finding yoga and astrology and a new soulmate; her WH discovered motor bikes, gambling and getting blowjobs in the McDonald's parking lot from girls he picked up online. The point is, we both knew that the behaviour our husbands were exhibiting was way way "out of character." My friend did the 180 and it took about 6 months for him to enter IC, get diagnosed with bipolar, and level off on his new meds enough to come home. I did the 180 and it took my WH about 2 weeks to figure out how the choice he was making would impact his life.

 

As much as the separation agreement was a reality check, WH went to stay with family instead of moving in with OW, so she covered his neck with hickies and texted me if my kids knew what they were and where Daddy got them from since he wasn't sleeping with Mommy. (I stupidly forgot I had texted her number asking who it was - I blocked her number after that.) I've always been NC with her, other than a letter, CC'd to WH, saying that it was an awkward situation but if she was going to be a part of our children's lives I wished to meet her in person before they did and be present the first time they did. I'm pretty sure my civility surprised her. (I did write a freaking novel in my therapy journal called "what I'd like to say to the OW if I got the chance..." lol) My husband, he got a barrage of snarky emails and mean, bitter texts - I was angry, and had every right to be - but only until the separation agreement was done on day 6 and I went NC with him for anything not divorce- or visitation-related, as per my lawyer's and IC's instructions. I didn't want to give either of them the satisfaction of knowing I was dying inside, so I did my hair and make-up, put on nice clothes, walked with my head held high... until I'd go home and in the privacy of my empty house I'd cry until I was throwing up.

 

At the onset of WH's mid-life crisis, I assumed the yoga/vegan/astrology thing was curiosity and I encouraged him just like I would have encouraged him to take a graffiti arts class, study Russian, or learn how to make a perfect dovetail drawer. I figured the process of learning that would help him cope with his feelings of restlessness. But it went off course. I don't know how many of you have gone through a "phase" (dressing goth, alternative religion, drinking light beer, group sex, whatever) and you grow out of it or realize it wasn't giving you the benefits you thought it would, but I've been there and to this day I choose to be compassionate about my husband's state of mind. Doesn't matter that my husband was ready to go punch out my friend's WH for banging strangers in the back alley and that he used to laugh at people who believe in tarot before that. Yoga/astrology/vegan/OW was his reality, at that time, and I was confident it would run its course sooner or later. Maybe that makes me a chump. Maybe it makes me arrogant. But I was pretty sure it was a phase, from the moment it began.

 

So no, I didn't have my mind made up to take him back - I had my separation agreement signed less than a week after he left - but I certainly knew that regardless of the outcome, I would find a way to forgive him, as much for my own sake as his and our kids, and I would do my best to be civil if not friendly, to the OW and her kids, too. Maybe not a family camping trip, but I wouldn't be openly rude either.

 

My husband swears he never said anything about me to the OW, but I know he's lying about that and frankly, I don't care what he said. Chances are, like most WH who are in it for ego kibbles and not an exit affair, it was a mixture of truth and lies perfectly concocted to a) make him feel justified for betraying me and b) make her feel like she wasn't a home wrecker. We've all read the script. It goes more or less like this: "I love my wife but I'm not in love with her anymore, she doesn't understand me anymore, we don't go out on dates, we don't have sex, when we did the sex was so bad I couldn't come, she was too self-conscious, she doesn't need me now that the kids are older, fate has brought us together, let's ****..." don't know if he omitted or included things like how I took care of our home, children, and finances, how much he loved my cooking, or how he kissed me goodbye and told me he loved me every single day before he left for work, including the days he was leaving early to work overtime but would actually meet her and get his weiner wanked. Whatever.

 

I did read one email in which WH said, "Is it weird I feel like I am cheating on you by going home to my wife?" to which she replied it was "sweet" and another one where they expressed how what had happened was unavoidable, they couldn't have stopped it, because it was written in the stars. The attachment was their star charts and I'm sorry, since when are Leo and Taurus compatible? That astrologer was a total hack. (Maybe I went through an astrology phase too, don't judge... lol)

 

FWIW, it was easier hearing about how she liked getting fisted and gagged during fellatio than knowing details of their mushy conversations. I am not the least bit deluded about my husband's behaviour during the affair, I just don't want to ask for the details of what he said about me any more than I'd like to push rusty needles into my retinas.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Lobe
grammar, typos...

[underpants]

Have you ever had a private civil conversation with the woman? That might help both of you heal?

 

Your story has shades of dishonesty. To me it sounds like he is still, or did, lead her on. She is still invested for some reason. Did they take the relationship underground?

 

I agree that her behavior is ugly. She is obviously in pain. Perhaps a conversation would clear the air?

 

Gosh, so many years ago I dated a long time friend. I understood him to be available, single. We dated for a while and I visited his apartment, met his family, went to his sister's wedding. Out of the blue one day I got a conference call from him and his fiancee. ...I was done in that moment...

 

I was given a speech of all my shortcomings and how he was going to marry her. ...i was like...okay....

 

I simply let the words happen and said 'hey, no big deal'.

 

That was the start of over 15 years, of me ignoring his contact.

 

'She made me do it', 'I really love you', attempts to engage mutual friends to have us be in the same place so he could physically access me. Nutjob.

 

He just 3 years ago contacted me through FB with the same nonsense. I finally had enough and told him off. I would have clued the wife in, but she obviously held me in disdain so I just washed my hands of the whole thing.

 

He moved on to cheat with another woman and is now engaged to be married to her, or maybe married to her by now, who cares.

 

You seem angry and that is understandable, but perhaps you should talk to her and find out the truth. I don't think you have it.

[Lady Hamilton]

My only thing about the cease and desist is that, whenever in conflict, I assume the response I get from something I do will be returned by whomever I did it to by at least +1.

 

A cease and desist? Honestly, it's legally meaningless. And it breaks NC, and it tips your hand and shows you've lawyered up. If she's intent on being a pest, and it sounds like it is, she may also consult a lawyer who'd send you documents of her own. Paperwork that will probably be as meaningless as the cease and desist, but a hassle nonetheless.

 

Plus, it confirms what she's saying and doing is getting to you.

 

I'd think it's easier to change phone numbers, emails, social media, and contact info so she can't reach you. She can keep shouting at the wind without actually knowing what you or your husband see, and you can go on with life.

 

If you don't answer, she won't know what has gotten through to you. If you do, she will, and it only encourages the behavior. If she gets to a point where she contacts you personally, then suddenly the things you can do to get her out of your hair become much more effective, especially when you can say with your head held up "She's a kook, she's contacted us non-stop even though we haven't engaged her at all."

 

It's just every time you engage, even via a legal letter, you encourage her engaging back. Every time she has a chance to explain away your response to her or try to reconnect with him. If you don't talk to her at all, at some point she will give up and move on or you will not notice or care.

 

Communication leads to hope, hope leads to more contact, more contact means more stress.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[Babsinhealing]

To answer your question from page 1 ...We are both married and we both have unmet needs (with spouses unwilling to compromise) so it works for us. It's been going on for a few years and we've had DDs but neither of us have any plans to end it. We have no drama (besides what we experienced after DD and once when I tried to end it) but we decided we love what we have together including a wonderful friendship, so while society and "norms" frown upon it- we found a way to make it work!

Edited June 8, 2016 by Babsinhealing
Wrong quote- removed

[Ophelia25]

This was a really interesting thread, for a lot of reasons.

 

I don't have a lot to add, just that from what I've read, the NC letter needs to come from the WS to the OW because the WS wants to do that. My MM said he was supposed to write me one and he didn't want to. I helped him write it. He showed it to her. He showed me how she responded to it. I helped him go NC for awhile, and knowing that he did it because she asked him to and not because he wanted to for some reason made me feel better about it, it made it a little easier to do. But, needless to say, it didn't take and he contacted me again in earnest after awhile.

 

If I got one from him, I know it would be at her insistence and I'd hate it. He is much more the ghosting type. I'd hate that too, but at least I'd know that was his choice.

 

If the A is over, and you feel confident about it, then you don't need to have him do it if it's not natural for him. He may know her and know that such a letter would be even worse than the silence, and she probably knows what an arse he is by now anyway. However, you don't owe her anything. Maybe you want her to feel worse and are angry that he doesn't. And maybe you are still angry at him for trying to protect her.

[Lobe]

A cease and desist? Honestly, it's legally meaningless. And it breaks NC.

 

We've changed/blocked/made profiles private but she knows where we live and where he works (that's were she dropped the birthday card off) and I have a business with a website and public FB page - there's only so "secure" we can make our lives.

 

I do not believe there is no value in standing up to her, in any way shape or form. I believe she continues because she can, because there are no consequences, and because she holds onto hope. Since NC has been pooh poohed, Plan A is a cease and desist. I don't have a Plan B. Maybe Plan B is a dash cam on the car and a camera on our house and I suppose we could ask for security footage from the building my hubby works in... and live in paranoia for the rest of our lives... Plan C is WH owes me a lifetime of doing all the dishes.

 

This... is the price of taking back a WH ...with horrible taste in OW. ^#%$$&^%

 

Ask me on the 11th, since the 10th will be "First Kissaversary." The cone of silence will remain firmly in place until and unless she makes contact again.

[Lobe]

Have you ever had a private civil conversation with the woman? That might help both of you heal?

 

Did they take the relationship underground?

 

I agree that her behavior is ugly. She is obviously in pain. Perhaps a conversation would clear the air?

 

...perhaps you should talk to her and find out the truth. I don't think you have it.

 

"Hi, OW - so, um, I'm just wondering if you'd like to go for a coffee and have a civil conversation and tell me the truth so you won't be in so much pain about your breakup with my husband? My treat... totes..."

 

I'd like some of the other OWs to wage in on that. Would you go? Yeah - didn't think so. lol If an NC letter won't have any positive affect, I doubt doing lunch would.

 

The money from overtime is in the bank (yes I check), I have a backup spy log of his internet activity, and the phone bill comes to me - it matches his call logs. I regularly ask for WH's phone. I'm 100% sure they aren't "underground" unless she's living under our bed, moonlighting for the cell company, and padding our bank account lol

 

He led her on - they future faked BIG TIME. Had all their vacations and holidays planned out, a visitation schedule set up for the kids... Perhaps ironically, having planned and almost lost an identical life with my husband in much the same way, I can empathize how disappointed she was when it slipped away.

 

I don't want/need the last word. I don't want to cause her pain, unless pain would make her go away. And I don't want a coffee date. Sorry.