did you get an NC letter from your AP?

[HeCantBreakMe]

"Hi, OW - so, um, I'm just wondering if you'd like to go for a coffee and have a civil conversation and tell me the truth so you won't be in so much pain about your breakup with my husband? My treat... totes..."

 

I'd like some of the other OWs to wage in on that. Would you go? Yeah - didn't think so. lol If an NC letter won't have any positive affect, I doubt doing lunch would.

 

The money from overtime is in the bank (yes I check), I have a backup spy log of his internet activity, and the phone bill comes to me - it matches his call logs. I regularly ask for WH's phone. I'm 100% sure they aren't "underground" unless she's living under our bed, moonlighting for the cell company, and padding our bank account lol

 

He led her on - they future faked BIG TIME. Had all their vacations and holidays planned out, a visitation schedule set up for the kids... Perhaps ironically, having planned and almost lost an identical life with my husband in much the same way, I can empathize how disappointed she was when it slipped away.

 

I don't want/need the last word. I don't want to cause her pain, unless pain would make her go away. And I don't want a coffee date. Sorry.

 

LOL Lobe you are pretty funny. I have to hand it to you, it's nice to see someone else handle crappy situations with humor. I feel that gets me through a lot of my tough days too. Stay strong and I sure hope you can pull your husband back into your marriage for good AND i hope you get to a place where you don't have to be the FBI and can be a wife instead. I think about the wife of my exMM and i understand a little FBI action would probably be needed on her part too and it saddens me. She didn't deserve the terrible choices we made and neither did you.

 

This ex AP sounds a wee bit hurt and sad. AS much future faking as your husband did with this poor girl I am sure he broke her which is a very very sad and hurt place to be- trust me I know. But, good news for you, is all of the crazy activity on her part at this point probably makes your husband thankful he got out when he did.

 

Go as NC as possible. Don't say bad things about her on any social media sites or to common acquaintances. Go with grace and class as possible because her pain isn't something I would wish on anyone.

 

Good luck!

[Helga]

"Hi, OW - so, um, I'm just wondering if you'd like to go for a coffee and have a civil conversation and tell me the truth so you won't be in so much pain about your breakup with my husband? My treat... totes..."

 

I'd like some of the other OWs to wage in on that. Would you go? Yeah - didn't think so. lol

After our last DDay, MM's wife did want to meet/speak with me in person (with him in attendance as well). I was agreeable to it if MM thought it would help her, but couldn't see where there would be any benefit to it: she was too angry, IMO. I didn't believe she wanted a conversation, but instead was looking for another 'whipping boy'.

 

Ultimately, I didn't meet with her; MM managed to dissuade her from insisting on meeting.

[Mycatsnuggles]

Lobe you asked for dd experience and nc letters. Here's mine.

 

His wife found an open message exchange between us, most of it was generic but the last two messages were not. She sent me a message about 2am basically who the f is this. I ignored.

 

About 6 hours later received my first nc letter "from him". I had been conversing with him via email for more then a year - I knew how he writes, the letter was not him. He even sighned it with his legal name not the nickname I knew him as. It was his sign to me he was ok, wait. The letter stated he was in love with his beautiful wife etc and I was nothing to him.

 

I received several more nc letters - again from "him" the last few begging for a response. I ignored.

 

Within 24 hours he contacted me and we discussed what/if I should respond. I responded one time downplaying the whole event and assuring her it was me who was wrong and that her h loved her. I apologized to her and disappeared, changing the email address she had used.

 

we met later that day, I remember the exchange vividly. I told him how we needed to stop it was too dangerous for him I didn't want to hurt him. What we were doing was bad. His response "come be bad with me"

 

We took the affair underground. It continued for several years despite her constant surveillance. It was difficult but we managed. My point being you cannot stop a WS from cheating, only the WS can control their behavior.

 

You stated you didn't recognize your husband in his responses to OW. In my case he and I were different people together then with our spouses. More open with each other, less inhibited, it was part of the appeal of the affair. Being able to reinvent yourself as a new person, being totally accepted for

who you are and not facing criticism for these choices.

 

You stated he has sent nc letters, unless he is genuine in his response she will know you are orchestrating the letters. Perhaps he does not wish to give up the fantasy he shared with her. maybe he wants to leave the door open for when you lower your guard, or maybe he is truly over the whole affair and would just like to sweep it under the rug and move forward with you. I cant know his thinking only offering possibilities.

 

You can only control yourself and your responses. Put the power back in your field. This is not about the other woman. This is about how her continually contact makes you feel. Have you told your H how hurt you are by this. You have a note of sarcasm in your posts, the humor to deal with a difficult situation is good but your covering your true feelings and allowing him to control you still by dictating that he has no control. He does have control. He just hasn't asserted it. Look at Liams posts. He is brutal when he talks about his ow. She stalked him for awhile but his cutting remarks finally sent her on her way. Even the most persistent OW will know when her MM means done, I don't think your H has conveyed that message.

 

Finally, yes I would want a nc letter, one blunt short honest. I'm done, moving forward with my life. bye then close the email. To me closing our account was the only indication I needed we were done.

[immokk]

Hi Lobe,

I think you're right. In your situation no good would ever come of you sitting down and having a coffee with her. I think she would need to be in a position where she wanted to help you and you were in a position where you felt you needed more understanding.

 

It feels to me that you have made some peace with your husband (although, I do believe that at some point you will need to stop monitoring him. It will create a drain on your progress eventually as at some stage, you need to be able to completely forgive and trust again, otherwise what's the point? Although, I am not suggesting for a second that the total job should be done just yet) and therefore, you don't need anything from her.

 

I think the only way any BS would get the entire truth would be to speak to the other OM/OW at a point where they have moved past some pain themselves. I don't think full and true disclosure will EVER come from the MM/ MW.

 

It seems that, in your case, you are happy with the things your husband has told you and you don't need to know more. And I think it's admirable.

 

In other cases, the BS will maybe want the full truth. Something she knows, deep down, she will never get from the WS. He is not likely to tell his wife all of the negative things he said about her to the OW or the promises he made to her, the times he declared his love etc.

 

The OW in your case seems very damaged. She was possibly very vulnerable before (either known or unknown to your H). If he told a vulnerable woman that he would always be there for her, she would never face anything alone again, that he would always love her and they would be happy and continued that for months... she would allow herself to become emotionally reliant on that.

 

I am hoping, for your sake and sanity, that she does, in fact, leave you alone. You deserve to be allowed to move on, just as she does. Unfortunately, it seems to me that she was previously vulnerable and your H has pushed her over an edge.

 

Some of the other stories on here are dreadful and many women (some men) have committed suicide. In no way should the MM/MW ever be held responsible for this, but they should understand the role they play in someone else's life before they choose to interfere. Same goes for their treatment of the BS.

 

In my case, when I was 'chatting' to MM and it developed into an EA, I can honestly say that every word I told him about my H was true. Every word. The sadness, the unhappiness. I left my H because I had to and not because I wanted anyone else. Because I wanted to be free of the chains that weighed me down being in such an unhappy place for so long. MM was not a factor in me leaving, as such, although he did make it easier (being able to talk to someone about how horrible things had become)

 

For you, there is no need to talk to her. You are aware he has lied. You are fully aware that there are things that you probably don't know (and actually don't want to) and any contact with her, especially like that, would not help her either.

 

For me, my MM will never tell his wife. He will go back to the pitiful unhappiness he lived in for as long as I was his friend, let alone anything else. I am aware that my presence eased his burden at home. He had me to talk to, he had me to confide in, he had me to turn to and to go out with, to be intimate with (although, this didn't happen almost nearly every time we saw each other. Which is what makes it a little harder. If he was demanding sex every time, all the time, always talking about it etc... It would be easier to brush off)... I imagine that if he told his wife it would be 'It was just sex'

 

With no mention of the times he drove 200 miles to watch a movie, eat pizza and fall asleep with his head on my chest. Or the times we met for coffee, in the midst of the affair, just for coffee. Not even a chaste kiss. Just because.

 

So... if he ever had the nerve to tell her (because I don't plan to, despite my belief that she has the right to know) and she wanted to talk to me, I suspect that I would do it.

 

And I'd give an honesty that I am sure he would be incapable of.

 

In your case, I feel like the majority of the decisions you have made you are happy with. And that is what matters.

 

Apologies for the babbling... partly busying my mind.

 

[Whoknew30]

There isn't an OW who'd buy that or let that go.

 

Best case you'd get the "you're just saying that to drive me away, we both knew what we had together" and she's think it's more lies told to save his butt in front of his wife.

 

Worst case is she goes to being in mourning to in scorning and now she's out for revenge. And I'm not sure how not talking to her is worse than saying "I used you for sex" in terms of closure. That just seems like the breaking of NC to land a low blow on the OW, not closure.

 

I agree with the previous poster... I don't think this is so much about giving OW closure but reasserting dominance. A last lick to put her in her place. And really, I don't think you can expect to send such a message and expect she'll go away.

 

Be NC or don't be NC. Don't say you're NC, make plans to break NC, then declare NC again after you get your last word. Then she'll want to give her last word, and that may bring some uncomfortable truths that just make a mess of things.

 

Really? I don't think so, its just its never been said. If someone looks you straight in the eyes & said "I lied to have sex with you", it's pretty clear. I think they doesn't happen so a woman truly doesn't know how'd she take it & hence the reason for bunny boilers. Think about it, it any of those cases when have you ever heard the man being honest about using her. Sure it will hurt but at least it's the truth...sometimes uncomfortable truth is the only way to stop someone after one has lied so much.

[Lady Hamilton]

Really? I don't think so, its just its never been said. If someone looks you straight in the eyes & said "I lied to have sex with you", it's pretty clear. I think they doesn't happen so a woman truly doesn't know how'd she take it & hence the reason for bunny boilers. Think about it, it any of those cases when have you ever heard the man being honest about using her. Sure it will hurt but at least it's the truth...sometimes uncomfortable truth is the only way to stop someone after one has lied so much.

 

The problem with that though is that it will hurt, but it is probably not the truth. The "I was using her for sex" excuse is one that tends to pop up post R with a spouse who wants to know why it happened.

 

The reality is most men don't use the OW for sex. There's attraction, a relationship, sometimes talk of a future... It's not a simple case of being a receptacle for sex.

 

So when an OW who's been with somebody for months or maybe even years hears "I'm just using you for sex," she's going to weigh it against the whole of the affair and discard it as a lie, and most likely a lie for the benefit of the BS... And to be fair, it would most likely be a lie.

 

The "I was using you for sex" excuse for an OW is like the "I never really loved you" excuse for a BS. Just as the BS must have been loved at one point by the WS, the OW was about more than sex.

 

If I had heard during one of our NC periods from my MM that it was just about sex, I'd have thought three things... He's trying to emotionally detach by lying to himself, it was an excuse put forward mor encouraged by the BS and/or for her benefit, or he was trying to be deliberately hurtful because it's a blatant lie.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[immokk]

The problem with that though is that it will hurt, but it is probably not the truth. The "I was using her for sex" excuse is one that tends to pop up post R with a spouse who wants to know why it happened.

 

The reality is most men don't use the OW for sex. There's attraction, a relationship, sometimes talk of a future... It's not a simple case of being a receptacle for sex.

 

So when an OW who's been with somebody for months or maybe even years hears "I'm just using you for sex," she's going to weigh it against the whole of the affair and discard it as a lie, and most likely a lie for the benefit of the BS... And to be fair, it would most likely be a lie....

 

This rings very true for me. I'm only just 5 days into NC, so I'm not an expert here at all. Just damaged by it all... but it can't have been just sex and if he said this to me I'd find it odd but not hurtful. It just wouldn't make sense.

 

As per my post above, he once drove 200 miles for pizza and a movie. We slept. We also just slept the following night. Other than a little kissing, this was all. This was not uncommon and he NEVER pushed sex. He was more content than I to fall to sleep without any.

 

So, in some cases it WILL be true.

 

But in a lot, it will not, and in those cases the OW will unlikely believe it.

[Lobe]

Really? I don't think so, its just its never been said. If someone looks you straight in the eyes & said "I lied to have sex with you", it's pretty clear. I think they doesn't happen so a woman truly doesn't know how'd she take it & hence the reason for bunny boilers. Think about it, it any of those cases when have you ever heard the man being honest about using her. Sure it will hurt but at least it's the truth...sometimes uncomfortable truth is the only way to stop someone after one has lied so much.

 

Oh, those awkward convos you only have with a cheating WH...

 

I've been talking to WH about the whole NC letter v. cease and desist thing. He sighed. Heavily. "If I knew this would happen - I'm so sorry..." He thinks that *if* she contacts us, the NC letter would be more effective between that and the cease and desist, because so much of their correspondence was through love letters/poems/that sort of thing. We are hoping that if she does contact him, it's by dropping something on the car and not via some stupid lame-ass fake "if*ckedyourman@gmail" account because if she does, he will let her know that there is dashboard cam and building security footage of her and he will seek a restraining order.

 

I think if she emails *me* again I'm going to respond by emailing her a virus.

 

Their affair was PA first, EA feels came along after the PA went on long enough, and the EA part was WAY harder to deal with than the PA. I concur with Lady Hamilton that it's not about the sex but about how the OW makes a WS feel - someone wanting to have sex with them is just the icing on the cake of someone who showers them with attention and makes them feel special. I'd argue that even when someone having a PA without any attachment it is STILL largely about an emotional high of some sort - feeling wanted and desired - and not the orgasm itself.

 

FYI - WH never sent an NC letter, ever. When we first started MC, he was advised to and I was 100% behind it, but he was clearly still not out of the fog. Mr. Non-confrontational split the difference and said, "I'll write one later, just not yet - it will hurt her too badly." Considering the suicide notes and sh*t, I thought fine - let's not push her over the edge.. yet... and then the NC letter just never happened. For the first month or so after WH broke it off with the OW, she taught us where all the loopholes were. At first WH would simply answer "please stop contacting me." I never responded; finally about 3 months in WH send her one text: please stop contacting us. please go see a counsellor.

 

We shut her down as best as we could... blocking her IP address worked for a while (I'm the computer dork and tech geek in our house in case you didn't figure that part out lol) but she knows where we live and where he works and where to find my professional website and profiles online... Fake email addresses and FB profiles, proxy servers - there are things you can't stop. She's like herpes.

 

Babsinhealing, I'm not asking you to skewer yourself, but I'm curious what you've done to successfully go underground? I find it extraordinarily difficult to see when/where WH would be able to sneak anything in since I control the finances, cell phone, and IP and I have people at his work who would tell me if his xOW was around again. So far, after stumbling a bit in the first couple of months, he's a goddamned saint. (For which I am eternally grateful.) I don't really want to make myself crazy looking for things... but I'm curious LOL

Edited June 8, 2016 by Lobe
spelling

[Outofmysystem]

Lobe, I have to say....your writing and humor (especially under the circumstances) is something that I've never seen on here before.....you have a patience and maturity that is beyond most I must say. Good luck in your healing and handling of this situation, and your H has good reason to be on the straight and narrow, your mastery of the Net, IP', proxy, should scare the **** out of him, lol....

 

My MOW ended our A, I'm a MM....no D-Day on either side, for what that's worth....I feel some of the things that his xOW feels just less the crazy stuff....I sorta had the "it's over email", but only after I forced a response back, just again, not crazy....I can say, as a guy, doing that mid life thing too like him (I was 44 at the time, she was 32) the attention, affection and the sex were a powerful drug like concoction that is hard to get out of.....not an excuse, just looking back now that it's been over for awhile, it was so controlling....

 

But I'm sure you know that....

[Whoknew30]

The problem with that though is that it will hurt, but it is probably not the truth. The "I was using her for sex" excuse is one that tends to pop up post R with a spouse who wants to know why it happened.

 

The reality is most men don't use the OW for sex. There's attraction, a relationship, sometimes talk of a future... It's not a simple case of being a receptacle for sex.

 

So when an OW who's been with somebody for months or maybe even years hears "I'm just using you for sex," she's going to weigh it against the whole of the affair and discard it as a lie, and most likely a lie for the benefit of the BS... And to be fair, it would most likely be a lie.

 

The "I was using you for sex" excuse for an OW is like the "I never really loved you" excuse for a BS. Just as the BS must have been loved at one point by the WS, the OW was about more than sex.

 

If I had heard during one of our NC periods from my MM that it was just about sex, I'd have thought three things... He's trying to emotionally detach by lying to himself, it was an excuse put forward mor encouraged by the BS and/or for her benefit, or he was trying to be deliberately hurtful because it's a blatant lie.

 

 

See that's how you know someone is completely delusional. If just ghosted I question that they're just upset & don't know how to let go but if that man looks at you straight in the face & says it & a woman doesn't believe it, then you know they're legitimately crazy. That is how I personally calculate if someone is truly a bunny boiler. After hearing " I used you for sex bc I'm an *******" doesn't snap a woman out if it, then they need to get themselves in therapy ASAP. No one lies about using another for sex. & IMO it was a lie...if they stay with their spouse, you were used. I care for my ExOM as a person bc I used him & he wasn't a bad guy. I went back to my H, he got me through & that's using someone. It's not someone's responsibility to make sure you believe them but it is to be straight with them & if you're a other person & your married person stays married, you were used.

[Lobe]

Lobeyou have a patience and maturity that is beyond most I must say

 

I can say, as a guy, doing that mid life thing too like him...

 

"Thank you, thank you - I'd like to thank my therapist, Loveshack, Linda MacDonald, and most of all Jack Daniels for assisting me with my recovery..."

 

Bah, who am I kidding... I only seem patient and mature because you haven't seen me triggered and it's a marathon to not let the psycho loose...

 

I'm really curious for you what your "midlife crisis" looked like. I use quotes because while statistically relevant, a midlife crisis is a cultural and male thing that doesn't really happen much outside of Western culture. I've read a few studies and one suggested part of that can be attributed to the fact that in many non-Western cultures men are not supposed to settle down and marry a 20 (or 12) year old until they're in their 40s so they don't need to go buy a faster mule or a shiny new tuktuk, but it seems that unless you're born into the right religion and you're allowed to just upgrade and take wife 4.0 when 3.0 is reaches obsolescense like Kody Brown... male 40-somethings in Western society are globally unique in this weird need to live it up one last time.

 

So tell me. What set you off - a birthday or something? And what came first, the restlessness or the affair? Do tell.

[Whoknew30]

Oh, those awkward convos you only have with a cheating WH...

 

I've been talking to WH about the whole NC letter v. cease and desist thing. He sighed. Heavily. "If I knew this would happen - I'm so sorry..." He thinks that *if* she contacts us, the NC letter would be more effective between that and the cease and desist, because so much of their correspondence was through love letters/poems/that sort of thing. We are hoping that if she does contact him, it's by dropping something on the car and not via some stupid lame-ass fake "if*ckedyourman@gmail" account because if she does, he will let her know that there is dashboard cam and building security footage of her and he will seek a restraining order.

 

I think if she emails *me* again I'm going to respond by emailing her a virus.

 

Their affair was PA first, EA feels came along after the PA went on long enough, and the EA part was WAY harder to deal with than the PA. I concur with Lady Hamilton that it's not about the sex but about how the OW makes a WS feel - someone wanting to have sex with them is just the icing on the cake of someone who showers them with attention and makes them feel special. I'd argue that even when someone having a PA without any attachment it is STILL largely about an emotional high of some sort - feeling wanted and desired - and not the orgasm itself.

 

FYI - WH never sent an NC letter, ever. When we first started MC, he was advised to and I was 100% behind it, but he was clearly still not out of the fog. Mr. Non-confrontational split the difference and said, "I'll write one later, just not yet - it will hurt her too badly." Considering the suicide notes and sh*t, I thought fine - let's not push her over the edge.. yet... and then the NC letter just never happened. For the first month or so after WH broke it off with the OW, she taught us where all the loopholes were. At first WH would simply answer "please stop contacting me." I never responded; finally about 3 months in WH send her one text: please stop contacting us. please go see a counsellor.

 

We shut her down as best as we could... blocking her IP address worked for a while (I'm the computer dork and tech geek in our house in case you didn't figure that part out lol) but she knows where we live and where he works and where to find my professional website and profiles online... Fake email addresses and FB profiles, proxy servers - there are things you can't stop. She's like herpes.

 

Babsinhealing, I'm not asking you to skewer yourself, but I'm curious what you've done to successfully go underground? I find it extraordinarily difficult to see when/where WH would be able to sneak anything in since I control the finances, cell phone, and IP and I have people at his work who would tell me if his xOW was around again. So far, after stumbling a bit in the first couple of months, he's a goddamned saint. (For which I am eternally grateful.) I don't really want to make myself crazy looking for things... but I'm curious LOL

 

I read your other post on infidelity. I'm sorry you're going through all this. It's all just not fair to you. I hope it all works out for you...on how ever that may be. You deserve better treatment.

[Robert]

Noting that there are two concurrent threads on this threadstarter's situation, we'll close this one up and ask that members post to this one: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/583445-held-contempt

 

Thanks,

~6