I'm the one who initiated the divorce.

[TennisGal]

Background: My husband and I married in middle age. We have no kids together. We don't own a home together -- he rented out his place and we have lived in mine. We were used to using our separate checking and savings accounts and largely continued that. I am the big saver and have much, much more in savings. He has made financial decisions involving large sums that I have not been happy about.

 

We are divorcing after 13 years (my decision). We plan to mediate.

 

My husband says he'll just keep the real estate and personal property he had when we got married, his car, and savings he has accumulated during the marriage from rent and his salary. He is saying he will not take any cash settlement from my savings account nor any household items we bought during the marriage. He says "I have cash." Yeah, but I have five times as much cash in savings. I want him to take some. (We agreed to waive interest in each other's retirement accounts.)

 

It feels weird to be in the position of pushing a spouse to take more in a divorce. Usually, I hear people complaining about the opposite problem. Perhaps I can persuade him in mediation to take more? It's really all we disagree about in the property settlement at this point.

 

I don't want to get to the final hearing and have the judge say the settlement is not equitable.

 

Any experience with this to share?

[elaine567]

Leave it be. For some reason he feels you deserve it.

Accept graciously.

Edited June 7, 2016 by elaine567
removed quote

[S2B]

Did he help you with your mortgage when he lived there? Property taxes? Repairs?

 

If two spouses agree then the judge basically signs it showing its final. It gets reviewed by the judge mainly when there is a disagreement.

[TennisGal]

He did not help with the mortgage on my place or "pay me rent" (as a friend put it). All the payments were made out of my salary. He did help with repairs and we used joint funds for a kitchen reno. I told him I thought that he should get $25K in reimbursement just for those things.

 

Also, he will have expenses now that he would not have if I had not asked for a divorce. I think some more money to offset housing expenses, at least for a year, would be in order. (His condo is rented out). And his car is old and will need to be replaced soon.

[S2B]

He did not help with the mortgage on my place or "pay me rent" (as a friend put it). All the payments were made out of my salary. He did help with repairs and we used joint funds for a kitchen reno. I told him I thought that he should get $25K in reimbursement just for those things.

 

Also, he will have expenses now that he would not have if I had not asked for a divorce. I think some more money to offset housing expenses, at least for a year, would be in order. (His condo is rented out). And his car is old and will need to be replaced soon.

 

He collected rent on his place and didn't pay you rent.

 

Consider it even and let it be.

[TennisGal]

I suppose I'm still "taking care of him." His life management and financial decisions are at the heart of what led to my decision to divorce.

[S2B]

I suppose I'm still "taking care of him." His life management and financial decisions are at the heart of what led to my decision to divorce.

 

Well, there ya go. That's his choice. I guess respecting his choices is key - even if they aren't choices you might make for yourself.

 

Don't give him more out of guilt.

[Marc878]

Maybe he's the type that monetary things don't mean much to him.

 

Honor his wishes. Sounds amicable enough.

[TennisGal]

Yes, it's amicable, as much as this sort of thing can be. We had booked a cruise and plan to still go on it. And we will still use concert tickets we bought, going together.

[TennisGal]

The Mister and I are going to do our property settlement with a mediation practice (the mediator is a JD). We have about 90% done already between us. They will prepare the property settlement.

 

Do we really need separate attorneys to review the settlement and file? I mean, assuming we settle that remaining 10% in mediation and are happy with the outcome. There are no children. Neither will ask for spousal support. Waiving interest in one another's retirement accounts. Just dividing up what we have.

[carhill]

IME, the main thing is getting the settlement agreement done right so as to inhibit possible future legal challenges. The mediator can't ethically suggest either of you are good to go or in any way represent the interests of one party. They're neutral.

 

We settled things out prior to filing, used a mediator and the court's family law self-help department and the dissolution went well and six years down the road, no problems. All I did was have my lawyer review the MSA to make sure it covered the points important to me and in a conforming manner.

 

However, everyone is different and IMO it comes down to the parties. You know your marriage and STBXH best.

[Methodical]

Attorneys will jockey back and forth until both parties come to a mutual agreement. You are already doing that so I don't see the need to pay an outside source several thousand dollars to do what you are already doing. From what you say, there's no sticky asset division, child support, etc. By coming to a mutual agreement you are both happy with, it'll save you both $$$ in the long run. Of course, once the agreement is made, get everything filed accordingly and move on without the additional expense. Just my .02.

[oldshirt]

[] Of course you should get your own attorney to represent your best interests!!!!

 

 

 

 

Now granted you have already done a lot of the legwork and sounds like it has been pretty simple and cooperative and that is great.

 

 

However you should at least have your own attorney look over the agreement and make sure that it is in your own best interests and to ensure that someone hasn't slipped in some loophole or some fine print that will bite you in the butt down the road.

 

 

Don't be pennywise and dollar foolish.

 

 

The money you spend on having your own attorney review the settle could save you several times that if there is something in there that could come back and bite you.

 

 

[]

 

 

In a few years this will all be behind you and you won't even miss the $$ you spent on a lawyer reviewing your case.

 

 

The cooperation you have had and the mediation you have had is great and will save you quite a bit vs if you had had a contested divorce with a lot of disagreement and conflict.

 

 

So that should mean that your lawyer shouldn't have a lot to do and shouldn't spend too much time on it or rack up too big of a bill.

 

 

But you should definitely at least have your own counsel review the settlement and to make sure everything is in order and that you aren't shooting yourself in the foot some how.

Edited June 14, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Angelica21]

Many good points mentioned above, the two most significant are "have my lawyer review the MSA to make sure it covered the points important to me and in a conforming manner." and "You should get your own attorney to represent your best interests."

 

A divorcing couple can create the agreement 100% with the mediator, but an attorney is required to convert the agreement into a legal format, and officially file the paperwork in the court system. Since the attorney is doing that much, might as well have him/her review the content of the agreement, too.

 

So, get an attorney now to perform these perfunctory but desirable tasks for you, the number of attorney hours will be minimal so cost will be minimal but well worth it.

[TennisGal]

Thanks for this feedback. The mediation isn't done -- we are going in July. The mediator is a JD and will put the agreement in the required form. But we will have attorneys review and file.

[Bufo]

Just be aware of one thing. Your property settlement agreement must incorporate what's called a QDRO. A qualified domestic relations order whic, in the wisdom of Congress MUST be in a form approved by the retirement plan administrator. Will your mediator see to that? You don't want to find out 30 or 40'years from now hat your long-forgotten ex has an interest in your pension.

 

Believe me, it can happen. Different but similar rules apply to municipal.,state, and federal,pensions. As well as military pensions. Don't fly blind here or count on cooperation years from now.

[Tayla]

Good Point Bufo!

 

Sometimes its WHAT IS NOT clearly written into the document that can come back to haunt the person.

 

OP- I would suggest an Attorney simply for future standings being of concern.

[Art_Critic]

IMO, you only need separate attorneys if there is animosity, children, a business or lots of property.

 

If you are getting along and dissolving the marriage amicability then just having one attorney should be fine, but if you get a bad feeling halfway in then hire your own.

 

Sorry you are going thru a divorce...

[TennisGal]

Bufo, we are waiving interest in one another's retirement accounts, so there will be no QRDO.

[TennisGal]

It was my choice.

 

I realize, of course, that for those who are told by their spouses that they want a divorce, it is painful, shocking, even devastating. It is painful and devastating for me, too. I can't say I *want* a divorce, but I can't live with the circumstance.

 

I would give anything if my husband would change the things that led to this. My raising concerns over the years has been met with denial, resistance, anger, counter-attack. He has delayed needful things for weeks, months, years. Even things he has said he would do or said he wanted to do. He has spent tens of thousand keeping things in two storage units. He left his rental condo empty and unusable, foregoing more than 3 years of rental income, because he was pissed at the tenants he evicted, who had trashed it.

 

I resisted this decision for years, medicating away the problem with zoloft, ativan, and chardonnay. My anger and frustration led to a lack of intimacy due to alienation.

 

Yet we get along well as friends if we ignore these issues.

 

Yes, I'm the spouse who said we need to end our marriage. But I am suffering, too. Today is a crying day.

[pteromom]

Awww. It's normal to grieve what you wish you could have had, as well as the future you traded away by making the choice you made.

 

Let yourself mourn. Be kind to yourself. This is a true LOSS, even if what you are losing had a lot of sadness and anger mixed in.

 

Give yourself some time. You'll slowly start seeing the light of your new future.

[KBarletta]

It was my choice.

 

I realize, of course, that for those who are told by their spouses that they want a divorce, it is painful, shocking, even devastating. It is painful and devastating for me, too. I can't say I *want* a divorce, but I can't live with the circumstance.

 

I would give anything if my husband would change the things that led to this. My raising concerns over the years has been met with denial, resistance, anger, counter-attack. He has delayed needful things for weeks, months, years. Even things he has said he would do or said he wanted to do. He has spent tens of thousand keeping things in two storage units. He left his rental condo empty and unusable, foregoing more than 3 years of rental income, because he was pissed at the tenants he evicted, who had trashed it.

 

I resisted this decision for years, medicating away the problem with zoloft, ativan, and chardonnay. My anger and frustration led to a lack of intimacy due to alienation.

 

Yet we get along well as friends if we ignore these issues.

 

Yes, I'm the spouse who said we need to end our marriage. But I am suffering, too. Today is a crying day.

 

I feel for you. And I understand your pain, too. There is no doubt that both the dumper and the dumpee feel the pain of a split. I think the dumpee, when it is out of the blue, as mine was, feels a more intense pain because the dumper has had time to come to a decision and begin healing earlier.

 

But - yes - there is pain on both sides. In your case, at least you presented your spouse with the issues and gave him the opportunity to address them. The fact he did not puts much of the responsibility for the split on him, in my mind, even though you are the one who left. You can should eventually be able to live with your decision with a clear conscience because you did what you could to address the problems.

 

I am sorry you are hurting, and I wish you the best of luck.

 

KTB

[TennisGal]

In your case, at least you presented your spouse with the issues and gave him the opportunity to address them.

KTB

 

 

Thank you. We spent almost two years going to a marriage therapist. He said he felt "beat up" by the therapist and me, thought I thought the sessions were generally low-key. He was resistant on most issues. And the therapist described it as "pulling teeth."

 

At my advanced age (61) I am dreading telling my Irish Catholic parents. They love him and he loves them. After father's day.

[TennisGal]

I guess I am at the "bargaining" stage of grief, finding myself thinking that, if only he would only address these issues and cooperate in forming a partnership that we could succeed. But he has resisted and stonewalled for so long.

[TennisGal]

So I really am in that phase of grief called "bargaining." I can see calling off the divorce if my husband is willing to make specific changes, and I am able to enumerate them. Some immediate (e.g., consolidate his two storage units into one so he isn't spending over $400 a month on that), some lasting (e.g., I need him to hear my concerns when I raise them and not dismiss them).

 

In recent weeks, with these issues off the table (since they would not be my concern after a divorce) I have been able to see more of the man I grew to love years ago.

 

My husband has been resistant, even stonewalling on a number of important issues for years. The marriage therapist said it was like pulling teeth. At the time I told him we needed to divorce, I did not believe that he would agree to and follow through on these things.

 

Do ultimatums work, though? If I say, I am willing to call of the divorce but only with these specific requirements, well, does that kind of thing ever work?

 

I guess I'm thinking that since all is lost, maybe it's worth a try?